Author Topic: IAB Sharps  (Read 128657 times)

Offline Steel Horse Bailey

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #140 on: December 08, 2011, 10:25:17 AM »
Let's hope his rifle is the exception!

I only studied the photo of the cowgirl for an hour or so.  For purely scientific reasons, of course.

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Offline Ranch 13

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #141 on: December 08, 2011, 10:51:01 AM »
I have a friend that finally ended up having the rifle rebarreled, and then went in and reworked the lock.. It's as good as any rifle now.
 Yes I hope 300 has that rifle that is the exception to the rule, it's never good when a rifle goes bad.
Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.

Offline IE300

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #142 on: December 08, 2011, 11:53:22 AM »
Well Ranch 13,
You are right about 20 rounds not being much, and I will certainly be putting a lot more through it assuming it holds up. On the other hand, some of the horror stories I've read relate instances of rifles failing within the first few shots, and so far mine has passed the initial tryout. Now these Sharps rifles are certainly new to me, but firearms in general are not. My previous experience has been that if I have a bad piece, the problems show up pretty quick. And that isn't just with .22's, but also with centerfires that generate enough stresses and pressures to cause failures fairly quickly.
Like I said, these Sharps rifles are indeed new to me, and they may have design issues that cause problems not usually encountered with other rifles. Obviously, you can't prove a negative and the fact that I haven't experienced a failure in the first 20 rounds only proves that it hasn't happened yet, not that it won't happen in the next 20 rounds. I can only keep a close eye out for potential problems by checking my rifle and fired cases and hope that I got a good one and not one of the "It's Always Broke" ones.
It seems to me that since my examination of the rifle reveals a properly reamed chamber with smooth walls, good mechanical fit of the mating components, and an overall appearance of a rifle that was manufactured with reasonable attention to detail and quality, any potential problems would probably relate to things that can't be seen. Aspects of manufacture relating to the quality of the steels used and their heat treatment are issues that, while it's possible to test some of these qualities, usually are discovered through use. Thats why we pay attention to things like fired cases, changes in tolerances between mating components, etc. If we start to notice such changes we start to keep a closer eye on things, and if these changes are substantial or happen over a short period of time, we stop using the rifle and have it checked by someone who has the skill and equipment to make an assessment and suggest repairs or replacement of components in question.
Reviewing the posts regarding the IAB Sharps rifles, it would certainly seem that while some people have obviously gotten dogs, other shooters have gotten rifles that they are very happy with. And some of the satisfied people are people who have been around the block more than a few times with various Sharps rifles. When I read about things like long chambers and broken firing pins, it seems obvious that quality control at IAB has been problematic in the past. It would be very interesting to cross reference dates of manufacture with problem rifles. Most companies that have found quality control problems and taken the time and efffort to rectify these problems, usually don't want to revisit their problems. They often find that once the problems are corrected, it doesn't cost them any more to do things correctly. My point is that quality control doesn't usually fluxuate up and down that much once ithe ssues are resolved. So I'm going to make the assumtion that there were problems up to a certain point in time, and that for the most part, rifles made after that time will be of better quality. My guess is also that my rifle was maybe manufactured after the issues were resolved.
That being said, if someone can advise me as to how to determine when my IAB Sharps rifle was made, I would be happy to share that info. And if we can make that determination, we should determing when all the problem rifles were made and see if a time line developes. This would be a useful tool for anybody who might consider buying a used IAB Sharps in the future.
I will hopefully be at the range this weekend again, and will let you all know how it goes. I for one, still believe that the dream of the good usable "Cheapo Sharps Rifle" is a definate possibility, in my case, with the IAB which Isn't Always Broke. I'm rarely accused of being an optimist, but in this case I think my optimism will continue untill I have a reason to change it.
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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #143 on: Today at 05:48:06 AM »

Offline Ol Gabe

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #143 on: December 08, 2011, 11:57:42 AM »
Well, as long as the cat is out of the bag...
As far as a quick Google search indicates, the above-pictured Cowgirl is one of the 'dancing Playmates' seen in the redux version of the Marlon Brando film APOCALYPSE NOW.
She was one of the group landed by Helo at a USO show in-country where Martin Sheen is being transported via a Riverine crew to seek out Brando. She dances in the Cowgirl outfit on the Helo pad til the crowd gets unruly and then gets put back onto the Helo, showing up later at a riverbank camp, totally out of her element.
The name of this young lady is Cynthia Woods, she was the Playmate for February 1973 and the Playmate of the Year for 1974 per the IMDB, a website for movie data seen at:www.imdb.com
Other data searches will probably come up with more info.
Best regards and good viewing!
'Ol Gabe

Offline Steel Horse Bailey

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #144 on: December 08, 2011, 12:22:21 PM »
I remember Miss Woods ... fondly, I might add ...

 ;)
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Offline Ranch 13

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #145 on: December 08, 2011, 01:38:52 PM »
300 where you're most likely going to find trouble is in the lock and the trigger springs will all of a sudden call it quits. The sear can chip a chunk out of the clear blue and that will cause no end of trouble, same with the notches on the tumbler. Stuff seems to work harden or soften, and that's when the breakages begin...And 9 x out of 10 it will be at a real in opportune time.
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Offline IE300

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #146 on: December 08, 2011, 02:02:42 PM »
Certainly a memorable scene in a memorable movie. The girls strutted their stuff to Creedence Clearwater Revival singing "Susie Q", and aside from Cynthia Woods dressed in cowgirl style, two other girls danced with her. One was dressed as the prettiest squaw I've ever seen, and the other wore an outfit inspired by the U.S. Cavelry. Seems like Miss Woods stole the show though. Must have been that matched pair of Colts she was carrying.
Not to change the subject back to the subject of "Cheapo Sharps", but there is another aspect to the whole IAB issue that makes it all the more confusing. My rifle is marked on top of the barrel as Armi S. Marco - Made In Italy, but under the forarm it is clearly stamped IAB. So was it manufactured by IAB for Armi San Marco, or made by Armi San Marco and marketed by IAB? The whole Italian gun manufacturing issue of quality is really confusing for a number of reasons. A lot of these companies do manufacturing for themselves as well as for other affiliated companies, so a gun's brand often doesn't really indicate who actually produced it. And most of these companies will produce any level of quality requested by the purchaser and charge accordingly. With some companies you have to wonder if they actually manufacture anything at all, or if they just purchase components from different vendors than assemble the components themselves into completed rifles. When that happens, it's an act of faith to accept the vendor's word that any given component will actually be of the quality requested.
With my own rifle, I certainly have to keep my eyes open. I have not only heard both good and bad things about products from Armi San Marco, but have actually owned a couple of their revolvers. If it wasn't for their markings, I'd have bet that they were made by two different companies. One was top quality in the fit and finish department, and the other looked like it had been assembled from a kit by a kid with no attempt to fit the components together. If you held two Ruger Bearcats next to each other, you might pick one over the other, but the difference in fit and finnish would be pretty slight. Not so with the Italian companies. When it comes to cap & ball revolvers, I think Uberti is a lot nicer than Pietta (the Pietta's are a bargain, though), but when it comes to their cartridge revolvers, they seem to be very close in their quality level. I guess that's what makes horse racing, at least in Italian guns.
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Offline IE300

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #147 on: December 08, 2011, 02:13:46 PM »
Thanks Ranch 13,
That is exactly the kind of specific information that myself and other owners will find truly helpful. Fortunately for myself, I'm for the most part just a paper puncher. When I have a problem at the range I pack up the problem and get out another rifle. But your words are good warning for those of us that might invest in a hunt or travel to a match.
The good news from what you tell me is that often the springs are the problem, and since springs are pretty cheap it would be a good policy to have some extras. The other components you mention could be more money than you would want to have tied up in a part you may or may not ever need. I wonder if it would be worth the effort and expense to have these components re heat treated before you ever encountered a problem? I have no idea what that would cost or who could do a good job for you. I guess for myself, I'll just play at the range and see what happens, but I do think I'll probably try to get replacement springs. Thanks again!
HEART & SOUL IN THE OLD WEST

Offline Ranch 13

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #148 on: December 08, 2011, 02:23:41 PM »
Well I can tell you it sucks bigtime to have to spend 2 hours filing a sear to get it to work in the lock, after you've waited for two weeks to get it, on the practice day before a match. It also doesn't do your scores anygood when in the middle of a match the trigger spring softens up, and you pull the set trigger then when the sights get dead center of the target you all of a sudden discover for your rifle to fire you have to pull that front trigger clear thru...... :-[ Just doesn't do your confidence much good at all....
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Offline IE300

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #149 on: December 08, 2011, 02:59:06 PM »
A couple of questions for you Ranch 13,
You are talking about your own personal experience, I assume with an IAB Sharps rifle? What model Sharps is it, and do you know when it might have been made? Again, I'm trying to see if we can determine some sort of time line regarding problem IAB Sharps, or if they are problematic regardless of when they were made. Also, if certain models seem to be more prone to quality issues, although I think that's less likely than finding a timeline of quality problems. For that matter, are there reports of non-Sharps IAB rifles with similar problems? My last question is regarding the replacement sear you got. Were you able to get an actual IAB sear or did you have to get a sear for another manufacturer's Sharps and have to file it to make it fit? And last, did you get your parts from VTI Gun Parts, and if so why did it take 2 weeks to get it. Sorry to ask so many questions, but maybe your experience can help me and some of the other owners out there. I am sorry for the problems you have had, and hope after all you have been through you have ended up with a rifle you are happy with.
HEART & SOUL IN THE OLD WEST

Offline cpt dan blodgett

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #150 on: December 08, 2011, 03:15:51 PM »
I remember Miss Woods ... fondly, I might add ...

 ;)


Is I recall we were able to make a quite detailed assesment of the quality of the "goods"
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Offline cpt dan blodgett

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #151 on: December 08, 2011, 03:28:28 PM »
Well Ranch 13,
That being said, if someone can advise me as to how to determine when my IAB Sharps rifle was made, I would be happy to share that info. And if we can make that determination, we should determing when all the problem rifles were made and see if a time line developes. This would be a useful tool for anybody who might consider buying a used IAB Sharps in the future.
I will hopefully be at the range this weekend again, and will let you all know how it goes. I for one, still believe that the dream of the good usable "Cheapo Sharps Rifle" is a definate possibility, in my case, with the IAB which Isn't Always Broke. I'm rarely accused of being an optimist, but in this case I think my optimism will continue untill I have a reason to change it.

Proof date codes from another forum
http://blackpowdertimes.com/index.php?topic=121.0
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Offline IE300

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #152 on: December 08, 2011, 04:47:50 PM »
Well I'll be! According to the code, BB, my IAB Sharps was made in 1992, which make's it a heck of a lot older than I would have thought. The guy I got it from said he had shot it, but I didn't get the impression he had it for a real long time. He's pretty much of a trader I know from my collector's club. We have a meeting scheduled next week, so I'll find out how long he owned it for, and if he knows anything else about it. Sure doesn't look like it's had many rounds through it, or seen much use of any kind. In fact it looks almost new; not quite, but almost. About 99.99% blue and case colors and a tiny ding on the stock. In fact, I've seen lots of brand new guns that had more finish wear than this.
Well, now that I know when mine was made. I would love to hear from other people who have had both good and bad IAB's and know when they were made. If everybody who has had a good one with no problems tells me that they were made around the same time, maybe I'm in luck!  Mean time I guess I'll have to keep on shootin' and see how long I can go without a breakage.
Boney Notches!
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Offline IE300

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #153 on: December 08, 2011, 05:13:56 PM »
Two sides to every story. Here are some posts from BPCR.NET:

I e-mailed IAB for information on their rifles expecting no reply. To my surprize, I recieved a prompt response from Mr. Mauro Pedretti in Italy. Mr. Pedretti informed me about the processes involved in the manufacture of his product, and after this, invited me to purchase one of his rifles, shoot it, and give him feed-back. He told me, he was confident I would be pleased with the quality of his Sharps. According to Mr. Pedretti, the barrels are broach rifled, lapped and polished, the finish is up to par or better than other Italian makers, and the parts are heat treated. Considering his reply to show class and profesionalism, I purchased one from Tri Star. IMO, fit and finish is up to par with Pedersoli. Rifling looks very well done, and has a twist of 1:18. Action feels very sturdy. Shot many boxes of ammo through it without any problems, and proved quite accurate at 100 yds. Let off after setting the trigger was very light. So far, I am very pleased, and I look forward to work up some BP loads for it.

I had an IAB 45-70 sharps business rifle until about a year ago, the rifle was quite accurate with smokeless loads out to 200 yards. Never had any problems with it. It had the 29" light round barrel. Sold it to buy a blackpowder shotgun for bird hunting

I have a TriStar (IAB) Sharps in 45-70 that I have about 1000 rounds through and find it quite accurate and well made with better than average fit and finish. I just wish that IAB made a pistol grip/shotgun butt stock for their gun as they would make an excellent entry level gun because the price is right for what you get. Just get a good set of sights.

There were some negative comments too, but no doubt some people have IAB's they are real happy with.  Are there other Sharps that have not yet been discussed which should be considered for good quality "Cheapo Sharps" status?
HEART & SOUL IN THE OLD WEST

Offline cpt dan blodgett

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #154 on: December 09, 2011, 12:35:38 PM »
My taylors (Armi Sports - Chiappa) appears to be pretty well done as far as fit and finish goes.  The jury is still out on its abillty to shoot.  As indicated above problems may well be related more to my eyes than the rifle.  Will probably end up spending more on the sights than I did for the rifle.  The rifle is not fancy but does look a whole lot more finished than a Baikal Shotgun or Makarov pistol, both of which look rough but shoot well.  My rifle was proofed in 2002 and has the older small firing pin.  Conventional wisdom on this site is that the small pins are prone to breakage.  Have not had a problem, but have only fired about 100 - 150 rounds.  Ordered a couple replacement pins along with an extactor from Taylors just in case (in stock and shipped quikly).  Taylors will drill out the firing pin hole to use the new larger firing pin for $10.  Will consider getting that done at a convienient time once I install the 3rd firing pin.

Others have claimed there are issues with springs and sears.  I have not ordered any of those parts.  Not sure I want to attempt to fiit a Sear.  I am pretty sure Ranch 13 would tell me how to do it.  He is very knowledgeable and quite helpful on this forum.

I finally got around to using a pencil to seat the bullets right at the rifling- not pressed into, then calipering to the base of bullet.  I now have COL for each of the bullets I have for both 45/70s.  May get in some range time over Christmas holidays.  Got a lyman tang sight "mounted".  Holes actually too close together but can just get screws in, seems solid.  Temp fix till get a decent soule.
At least I can see the front sight.  The barrel sights and my eyes really do not work to well.  Will knock out the rear sight from barrel to allow me to shoot at 100 and 200.
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Offline IE300

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #155 on: December 09, 2011, 08:35:43 PM »
I'll hopefully be getting in some range time tomarrow, and hope to put about 40 rounds downrange at 100 and 200 yards. I know my eyes aren't what they once were, and for myself I have always enjoyed some magnification and seeing the crosshairs on a target. I was really amazed at how expensive the soule tang sights could get, but when something is machined by true craftsman it has a value that is impossible to place. There just arent many people left who can do the kind of precision machining it takes to produce these sights. Buffalo Arms has a sight by Lee Shavers which costs a little over $200., and probably represents a good value, but from there they jump up in cost pretty fast. As I said, my personal preference is for glass, but even going the cheap way with that I have about $100. more into my scope setup than what I paid for the rifle.
Tomarrow will give me a better idea as to what my rifle can do, and what I can do with it. Just fooling around last week and sighting in I was able to make some pretty good (for me) groups at 50 yards. I had a 4 shot group about 1.5" with 2 shots and 2 shots touching each other. That was only 50 yards, but I think if I had taken a little more time I could have had a one hole group without too much problem. Now for myself, that's olympic quality shootin', 'cause I've never been all that good. So maybe gettin' old is a double edge sword......your eyes get worse, but your patience gets better. And it certainly seems like patience is one of the key ingredients of becoming a competent marksman. 
Well cpt dan, I hope you get some shootin' in before the holidays. Maybe you can pick out a sight you really like from the Buffalo Arms catalog and leave it in a prominent place with the sight circled in red. I know my wife wouldn't take the hint, but maybe things are different in your family.
My wife asked me if I had an electric blanket. I told her that the cat keeps me warm, but I like guns. I won't hold my breath for an addition to my small collection, but maybe I'll get a Lee Pocket Loader so I can save a little money off the cost of factory ammo!
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Offline cpt dan blodgett

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #156 on: December 10, 2011, 12:53:07 AM »
Thinking sometime around april there will be either an MVA or Kelley on the rifle.  Sights have not got close enough to the top of the list to worry about till then.
Thankfully  I got the reloading stuff back in 94 for high power.  Even with the equipment 300 - 500 grain bullets $ add up pretty quickly.  good news is once I get it dialed in for 300 probably only need to shoot 10 rounds a month.

If I ever get seriously into BPCR shooting at paper or steel will probaby invest in one of the guns from montana. Until then think the Armi will do just fine.

Mamma already ordered a pancho from Western Wildlife Wonders to keep me warm on those 2 or 3 match days a year I might need it out here in sunny AZ.
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Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #157 on: December 10, 2011, 10:45:14 AM »
Eh! Pancho!

Do you mean "poncho", or more appropriate for Arizona; "Serape" ???

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Offline IE300

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #158 on: December 10, 2011, 08:14:37 PM »
Be it a PonchO or a Sarape, I'd trade my left little finger to spend the rest of my days in Arizona. When I liveed there in the 70's and again for a year in the 80's there were no shortages of great places to shoot. That was where I learned that my Marlin 39M could hit rocks at 500 yards or more! All my happiest shooting was in Arizona and thats where I got my cowboy heart. Tried bull riding up at a place on South Mountain. They had $4. bulls, $5. bulls, and $6. bulls. Started out on a $4. bull named Charlie who was about as rough as a big friendly dog. I swear he liked to be ridden, and he wouldn't buck for love or money. They put everybody on Charlie for there first ride, just to see if they would really get on a bull. I think the most dangerous thing about riding Charlie was that he might lick you're face if you fell off of him. I graduated to $5. and $6. bulls and ended my rodeo career on my 7th ride on a $6. bull named "Dispose All". Didn't know you could break an arm that bad, but after 2 surgeries I had decided that my cowboying would be relegated to shooting and riding horses. I still have the steel plates I carried in my arm for more than 20 years, not to mention my memories of riding real bulls. Not that I would recomend it, but I gotta tell ya', you will never feel anything like you feel when you're sitting on a 1,500 pound bull waiting for that gate to open. Any by the way, I did ride ride em' out on my 6th and 7th ride. Thats actually harder than getting thrown, 'cause when you hear that bell ring you think "Well now what do I do?" and you have to figure it out pretty quick.
And remember....GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, BULLS DO!
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Offline cpt dan blodgett

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Re: IAB Sharps
« Reply #159 on: December 13, 2011, 11:12:49 PM »
A rodeo hand aint nuthin but a Cowboy with his brains kicked out.

Think bull riders make em look like geniuses

As I understand the terms a Sarape is a full blanket.  Poncho more on line with size of a saddle blanket with a hole for the head to go thru Ala Clint in Fist full of dollars.
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