Old time dyes: a How_to

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Hi,

I am just a tyro at this, but I just got done Vinagarooning (is that a word? *S*) a pistol belt and confederate D-guard Bowie sheath.

Instead of the soda wash, I simply skipped it and slathered Skidmores on the outside (I plan to glue a suede liner on the backside and didn't want the glue not to work on the Vinagarooned surface ...).

Once I get my black/flapped/Confederate holster from David Carrico, I plan to give it a 'lip service' vinagarooon coating with an old sponge to get it to match the belt and sheath ...

Then all I have to do is save up to get that Larry Romano Maynard ... LOL

[Dusty Drifter]

About three weeks ago I put one full 0000 steel wool pad in a quart of white vinegar. Not one bit of the steel wool has disolved and the vinegar is still perfectly clear. I dipped a piece of scrap leather into it a couple of days ago and it did turn somewhat black (more like dark gray).
I'm ready to dump it all and start over.
Anyone have any suggestions why my brew flopped?

DD

[Cliff Fendley]

About three weeks ago I put one full 0000 steel wool pad in a quart of white vinegar. Not one bit of the steel wool has disolved and the vinegar is still perfectly clear. I dipped a piece of scrap leather into it a couple of days ago and it did turn somewhat black (more like dark gray).
I'm ready to dump it all and start over.
Anyone have any suggestions why my brew flopped?

DD

Are you sure you didn't use stainless steel wool.

I've had a gallon eat up four or five steel wool pads before filling it's appetite.

[Cliff Fendley]

OH yeah, also torch the steel wool pads to get any oil off of them, could that have been the problem?

[Dusty Drifter]

I'm sure it isn't SS wool.
I didn't torch it but I'll try that on the next batch

DD

[Dusty Drifter]

OH yeah, also torch the steel wool pads to get any oil off of them, could that have been the problem?

Thanks for the suggestion Cliff. Apparently that WAS the problem. I dumped my last batch, took another steel wool pad out of the same package and torched it, put it in a jar of new viinegar and within 5 or 6 days most all of the steel wool was gone. I strained out the sediment this afternoon and tried it out on a new gunbelt. After I ran it through the vinegaroon I dipped it in a solution of baking soda and water. My belt turned a beautiful black color and I don't have to worry about black dye rubbing off anymore.
Now my question is, how do I get rid of the vinegar smell? My wife said when I wear that belt I'd smell like a giant pickle!

DD

[theshoer]

Ok I just need to clarify for me that I understand the 3 dye that have been discussed here

Vinegeroon - 1 steel wool pad to a gallon of vinegar let soak for 5 or 6 days till dissolved, then was a baking soda solution after you dye your leather to neutralize vinegar, for a black stain. Yes - No

Walnut -  Boil a pound of green walnut husk to about a gallon of water to a thick mix, without iron for a nice walnut dye or with iron for a greyish walnut dye . Yes - No

Coffee - Boil a pound of coffee to about 2 1/2 to 3 gallons of water for a nice chocolate brown. Yes - No

Yes I know the color will also depend on how long I soak the leather in the dye, so do I have the basics down for these 3 dyes

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Sounds like you have it. For a quart of vinegar, I use one of those large steel wool pads, not the small ones. I get a very deep, rich black with those proportions. I'm not an authority on the walnut or coffee dyes so I'll let the others here reply on them.

[wolflobo76]

In reference to the Black Walnut stain would it work to heat up a light type of oil and add powdered or pieces of  ripened walnut husks and simmer for a while then strain thru cheese cloth to get a type of dye for dark brown to black.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre]

I started a batch of vinegeroon about two weeks ago. I aquired some steel dust from an auto parts store. It is from turning brakes. I'm using a gallon of vinegar, with the dust.
After two weeks, I'm still getting a nice froth in the bucket. How do I know when it's done? I presumed that when it is done, it would stop frothing.
It does a nice job blackening test pieces, but I want to make sure I do this right.

                                               Thanks, Sgt. C.J. Sabre

[Drayton Calhoun]

Finally got around to making some vinagaroon, five old steel wool pads in a gallon of white distilled vinegar and waited two weeks. Tried it out on a wristband, neutralized in a baking soda slurry, came out great. Got a project that requires black pieces that are assured not to bleed, here's hoping! Will post pics when complete, if lucky!

[GunClick Rick]

0? or 0000?

[Drayton Calhoun]

0? or 0000?

0000, dissolved fast! The stuff was at least 10 years old and couldn't use it for anything else, would just come apart.

[Cliff Fendley]

I posted on the other thread too. Just use steel wool, it works just fine. Burn off any oil that may be on it with a lighter or torch.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Chuck,

I have a question that I think you have answered before, but I can't seem to find it.

I have been given a large hunk of 9-10 oz leather ... the person that gave it to me was not the original person who got it , but he believes it is Chrome Tanned and says that I can use it but he is not sure that it will dye very well ...

What do you think? If there is a problem, is there something to help the dye out?

[Massive]

Chrome tanned is not one process or chemical but many.  With dyes and glues a sample is always best.

I got some help with this fall's batch of dye as I left the nuts on a boat in my driveway.  After a while, they were discovered by squirrels who hulled the lot which I rebagged.  I have since reduced them to a thick juice just as a result of their sitting around.  Pretty simple.

The 1850 saw the emergence of industrial dyes with the discovery of Mauveine.  Many discoveries and a few fortunes were made as a result.  So I wonder to what extent makers in the western period were limited to natural dyes.  Of course certain artificial dyes, of which vinigaroon could be one, date back millennia.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Massive,

I was wondering if I 'vigorously wiped' the finished section of the leather with rubbing alcohol acetone, or ammonia, if I could 'preset' the leather up for dyeing with a vinagaroon ....

Has anyone tried this?

TTFN

[Cliff Fendley]

Burn a piece of it and if the ashes are green it's probably chrome tan.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Cliff,

 Thanks; I'll try it!

TTFN,

[Massive]

I tried some V on some chrome I have around and it did not darken it, whereas, the instant it touches veg the veg goes black.

This is what I would do, take some water, wet a scrap thoroughly, then shake it off.  If the surface seems damp at all then I think you can:

1)Take another scrap, dampen in tea, very strong tea.  There are other things that do tanic acid even more strongly.  But tea is a nice household thing.

2) Let one piece dry, and try the V on that, and try the V on the wet piece before it dries.  Veg goes black because it has the tanic acid left over from the bark tan, or similar process.  But you can dye something like cotton that does not, simply by first putting some tea on it.  Now the problem with chrome is it does not wet out that well, but I think you can get past that.

Another option is to use black dye.  Dean of all things holster, Will Ghormley, has a section on his site about dyeing with ecoflow.

http://www.willghormley-maker.com/OldDogsAndNewTricks.html

[Massive]

I tried the wet version.  The result was basically not much change.  The roughest section greyed, but mostly it was unchanged.  I have a piece that needs drying out, and I will try that.  There may be less dilution by the water in the tea, if I let it dry first.  The tea may not be strong enough.  Health food stores sell tannic acid powder, and it can be used in a 5% solution for dying.  Apparently it is not really an acid, so it may not be harsh on the leather.  Not that it takes nasty amounts for dying anyway since the amounts present in wood naturally are enough for a deep black to develop.