Triple 7 45 colt load ?

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Adirondack Jack:
For quite a while, my FC standard .45 Colt load was a 250 generic meister or whatever midway had on sale, and 23.5 of 777 FFG.  A little more snappy than a 22 grain load (by weight) outta the rugers,  and really barks outta the 24 inch Marlin.

Marshal Tac:
I am curious about a couple of the things I have read about 777, as I am just begining my transition to the "dark side" and have been dabbling with 777 before taking the plunge into the "real" stuff.... Can someone explain to me why Hodgdon warns against using fillers like grits, in conjunction with this powder? Also, does anyone know why they advise against leaving any "air space" between the bullet and the powder? ( Excuse my ignorance.. this is my first experience with the "dark arts")

I have loaded up a few boxes of shotgun shells with 777 with Winchester AA hulls and Winchester "red" wads, with a basic "Square load" and been pretty happy with the result. I also loaded 50 rounds for the .45 Colt using some 250 grain Laser cast smokeless lubed bullets (part of the reason I chose 777 to start with, as I have a lot of these bullets on hand for use with my heathen loads). I loaded them to the base of the bullet, as directed by Hodgdon's web site, with little or no compression and a tight crimp. I was amazed at the accuracy I got and the easy clean up, but I would like to reduce the recoil somewhat.

I haven't had the chance to shoot the 777 loads out of my '73 yet, but if they perform like they did from my pistol, I am sure I will be happy.  Because I want to shoot the same load in both my revolvers and my rifles, I do not want to go to the ".45 Special", due to the shorter case length, and subsquent feeding problems with the rifle....

Is anyone using "fillers" with 777 safely, or reducing the load , even though they advise against it? If so, what kind of results are you getting? Any help would be appreciated.

SFT:
Maybe I can help answer at least some of your questions, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
As far as leaving air space in any black powder load, real or substitute, black powder is made to be compressed, even if it's ever so slightly, and not doing so can lead to a sudden increase in pressure, moreso than any modern steel firearm can handle, and this includes muzzle loaders as well as cartridge applications.  You do not need to overly compress BP loads either, just a little.  I think the reason Hogden doesn't recommend the use of fillers due to the wider variance of material used as such, as it may cause uneven ignition, pressure curves, and burn rates, plus may also increase wear on your gun.  Since they cannot control such things that one might add during the reloading process they'd rather just advise against it.

As far as I know, you can use a wad to take up space between the powder and bullet, however it is advisable to use a dry wad as opposed to one that's already lubed such as the Ox Yoke wonder wads, if you intend on storing the ammo for longer than a few months.  Triple 7 isn't supposed to be as hydroscopic (sp?) as either real black or pyrodex, but water, oil, grease, etc., will render powder inert or partially so, very quickly.  Using a wad in the brass may also cut down on fouling as well.
Quote from: Marshal Tac on August 26, 2006, 05:23:56 am

I am curious about a couple of the things I have read about 777, as I am just begining my transition to the "dark side" and have been dabbling with 777 before taking the plunge into the "real" stuff.... Can someone explain to me why Hodgdon warns against using fillers like grits, in conjunction with this powder? Also, does anyone know why they advise against leaving any "air space" between the bullet and the powder? ( Excuse my ignorance.. this is my first experience with the "dark arts")

I have loaded up a few boxes of shotgun shells with 777 with Winchester AA hulls and Winchester "red" wads, with a basic "Square load" and been pretty happy with the result. I also loaded 50 rounds for the .45 Colt using some 250 grain Laser cast smokeless lubed bullets (part of the reason I chose 777 to start with, as I have a lot of these bullets on hand for use with my heathen loads). I loaded them to the base of the bullet, as directed by Hodgdon's web site, with little or no compression and a tight crimp. I was amazed at the accuracy I got and the easy clean up, but I would like to reduce the recoil somewhat.
What amount of powder are you using for your shotgun shells?  How if the recoil compared to other factory loads and how was the cleanup?  I've been looking for examples of 777 shotgun loads so I can reload for at least one all black powder match.

I haven't had the chance to shoot the 777 loads out of my '73 yet, but if they perform like they did from my pistol, I am sure I will be happy.  Because I want to shoot the same load in both my revolvers and my rifles, I do not want to go to the ".45 Special", due to the shorter case length, and subsquent feeding problems with the rifle....
The .45 special won't work in anything but a modified 1894 Marlin, but the loaded round is different enough to where you can't confuse it with regular .45 LC, or even a schofield length case, but if you are looking for less recoil as well as substantial powder savings, it's the way to go.  There's also plenty of smoke and boom and no loss of accuracy, so out of a pistol no one can accuse you and shooting mouse pharts.

Is anyone using "fillers" with 777 safely, or reducing the load , even though they advise against it? If so, what kind of results are you getting? Any help would be appreciated.

Marshal Tac:
Ok, so I understand you correctly, the reason for the compressed load is to avoid a spike in pressure that could be caused by the uneven burn rate of the powder if air space is left.... And that use of a "non-lubed" wad is acceptable, even though Hodgdon recommends against it?

Is any one out there having good results with use of a wad, and if so, what are they using as a wad material?

River City John:
I use no wad, load the case with FFg 777 so that the slug compresses the powder about 1/16th" in a .38sp. I use a Meister bullet, 158gr with the blue lube intended for smokeless.

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