Tryin' ta get the word out

[44caliberkid]

I was perusing the forums over at gunbroker.com and saw they have a new Blackpowder and Cowboy Shootin' forum.  Some guy was gripin' about CAS (SASS?) not wanting to use 5 guns and why don't they have an entry level class.  I posted a reply telling about NCOWS Working Cowboy class.   It was totally ignored and two more guys posted replys *ichtin' about the same thing!  So I reiterated my comments.  We will see.  I referred another guy to our Darksiders forum as he was having trouble gettin' a straight answer over there.  We need to keep an eye on some of the other forums and get them directed back over here.

[gw]

Thanks Kid. Do you think SASS might have missed the boat on this? Just a little I'd guess! Seems like it would have been the perfect way for them to attract more new folks, but leave it to little "ol NCOWS to both think of it and make it work. It's very irksome when people totally ignore your post too, so maybe they just didn't want to hear what you said. Too bad for them!

[Will Ketchum]

Thanks Kid. Do you think SASS might have missed the boat on this? Just a little I'd guess! Seems like it would have been the perfect way for them to attract more new folks, but leave it to little "ol NCOWS to both think of it and make it work. It's very irksome when people totally ignore your post too, so maybe they just didn't want to hear what you said. Too bad for them!

I think one of the reasons that SASS is reluctant to have such a class is that it would reek havoc with their "Overall Winner".  Heck even a just average shooter should be able to beat anyone shooting all 4 guns on every stage.

Will Ketchum

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[Wild Ben Raymond]

Will K, I really doubt that statment you made would be true Quote: {I think one of the reasons that SASS is reluctant to have such a class is that it would reek havoc with their "Overall Winner".  Heck even a just average shooter should be able to beat anyone shooting all 4 guns on every stage.} Why I say this, lets look at the facts; If the working Cowboy has to shoot all pistol targets that eveyone else shoots that means reloading on every stage and the only differance being the lack of having to shoot a shotgun. That being said most of the top shooters can easily shoot 1 shot per second with their shotgun of choice and with most stages require 2 to 4 shells & seldom 6 or more. That would mean the Working Cowboy would have to do a complete 5 round re-load in 2-4 sec. I don't know of anyone personally that can do that. I have heard if you can do a 5 round reload in 10 sec.(time between last shot before reload, to first shot after reload) that is a extremely good time. I think the reason SASS doesn't have a class like NCOWS Working Cowboy is because it would cause more work for the folks figuring the scores seperatily from the rest of the shooters. Just my thoughts on this, yours may differ......... Wild Ben Raymond
P.S. I have noticed that sence NCOWS started this class, that it's not the new shooters getting into it but more of the long term shooters (Folks that have been doing this for years & they have all the guns)   

[Quick Fire]

Well it is an approved class and that means that anyone who likes may shoot it.

[Major 2]

I tend to agree with slp...

I have the guns... and if there was NCOWs here in Florida I be there.
I'd shoot Working Cowboy for the variety of it.
And the other classes as well.

I prefer the authentic aspect over the Wrangers , western shirt (modern) and modern crease hat look at our shoots.


Though there are a few NCOW members here in Fla. there does not seem to be enough to put an event on.
I suppose they just go to the SASS backed events around the State.
I had contact eMails and Ph# 's for several but few respond to my Emails ( as to "if" or where to get together )

[Wild Ben Raymond]

Quickfire's quote:"Well it is an approved class and that means that anyone who likes may shoot it." Yes, I know it's an approved class & anyone can shoot in it. I was just commenting on the fact that this class was started to provide a starting place for those that don't have all the guns required to shoot in the other classes. I was just an observation on my part that the majority of the working cowboys are those that do have all the guns but choose the shoot this class for reasons of their own. I didn't say there was anything wrong with that! Wild Ben Raymond 

[Will Ketchum]

Ben, the whole point is that Working Cowboys and Originals don't have to shoot the same amount of shots.   Look at the scores posted at the Nationals posted at http://www.hootenoldtown.com 

Nine of the Working Cowboys beat the top Smokeless Shootist and 4 of the Originals did so.

Even the top PISTOLEER had a lower score than the top Smokeless Shootist probably with some help from the fact that they are limited to 2 shotgun shots and no reloads.

In NCOWS we recognize the fact that different classes are like apples and oranges and can not be compared when they don't shoot under the same restrictions and nor the same course of fire.

SASS is big on Top Overall.  When NCOWS had a match (05 Nationals)where the Working Cowboys had to do reloads and shoot the same amount of pistol shots there were many complaints and I don't think you will see that again.

Will Ketchum

[Books OToole]

Now I am beginning to uderstand the mentality of all those reloads last year.  Somebody that is still thinking like a SASS shooter thought there had to be the same number of shots as the four gun classes.  With the completely bogus concept of an overall champion this makes a little more sense.

Compare the scores from tho 2006 Nationals of the Working Cowboy class with the Originals class.  Both shot the exact same course of fire.  The Originals champion, shooting one handed with blackpowder, shot the course clean.  He would have been in 4th or 5th place in Working Cowboy and nobody in that class shot clean.  The difference is one handed vs. two and black powder vs. smokeless.  And that difference is pretty dramatic.

That same difference would be amplified in the Four gun classes.  So any attempt to declare an overall champion is pure sophistry.

Books

[Terry Lane]

Howdy all,
as I've stated before, the only reason I shoot "Shirking Cowboy" class is that I enjoy reloading on the clock. One stage per match without pistol reloads but maybe a rifle reload instead would be tolerable, any fewer would not address the reason I shoot in that class. That plus the fact that I've been unable to find any reference to Cody (or anyone else for that matter) asking to shoot fewer rounds in an engagement than anyone else present. To each his own. Take care.

[Dr. Bob]

Sip,

I resisted CAS for several years until NCOWS adopted the Working Cowboy class.  It is the reason that I joined.  I am quite happy here and don't feel any NEED to add any more guns to my arsenal right now.  As to scoring, all you do for any class is add up the time from the stages.  What is HARD or CONFUSING  about adding smaller numbers??  If there is more than 1 class, you have to separate the competitors scores anyway.

I think that having the pocket pistol as an option in writing stages is a plus for NCOWS.  Hopefully, the NCOWS issue of Shoot magazine will open the eyes of a lot of the folks in other CAS organizations to what we have to offer.

NCOWS has lots to offer, including a representative governing body that is responsive to the membership!  I am happy to ride for the brand!!

[Books OToole]

I was once told the secrect to combat shooting; you shoot the opponent that is most likely to do you harm, first.  You keep shooting him/her until they go down.  Then you repeat the process with the next opponent likely to do you harm.

Terry is correct you don't stop shooting until the threat is removed.  However you do not take out all of the opponents and then reload and shoot them all again.

Terry and I can resolve our differences very easily.  Use knock down targets.  You shoot untill they go down.  Now that would be realistic, sporting & fun.

Books

[Terry Lane]

Books said "However you do not take out all of the opponents and then reload and shoot them all again", and Terry Lane says why would the prudent shootist not?