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CAS TOPICS => The Darksider's Den => Topic started by: Johnny_Cyclone on August 23, 2017, 10:51:49 pm



Title: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Johnny_Cyclone on August 23, 2017, 10:51:49 pm
I'm am utterly Gobsmacked at seeing this.

Looks like Starline made it legit at a fair price point. When did this happen?
___________________

Cowboy Special (Large Pistol primer)
Cowboy 45 Special, 45 SPL, C45S
0.892 - 0.896 O.A.L.
The Cowboy .45 Special is a case that is optimized for use with light loads in .45 Colt caliber revolvers for Cowboy Action Shooting. Light loads with excessive airspace are a recipe for case splits and erratic function. By using the Cowboy .45 Special case, with its .45 Colt rim and .45 Auto length, the problem no longer exists. While many claim that .45 Auto load data can be used in this caliber, it is important to realize the limitations of the firearm it is chambered in and only use loads that fall within the pressure range of that firearm. Generally these can be loaded using .45 Colt dies and a modified (shortened) crimp die, or .45 Auto Rim roll crimp die.

Box Size:
•  250 ($67.00)
•  500 ($119.00)
•  1000 ($217.00)

Status: Available Now
ORDER

It's hidden under "WHAT'S NEW"
https://www.starlinebrass.com/whats-new/new-products.cfm (https://www.starlinebrass.com/whats-new/new-products.cfm)



Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special Starline made it legit?
Post by: Jake C on August 24, 2017, 08:46:00 am
Neat! Looks like a good way to dip one's toe into .45 Cowboy Special. Might need to order some and play with that particular round a bit.


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special Starline made it legit?
Post by: Bunk Stagnerg on August 24, 2017, 09:15:50 am
That CAS case with 1.3 c/c FFFg powder and a 200 grain bullet, I believe, pretty much  duplicates the ballistics of the original 44 Henry load.
Correct me if i am wrong.
Bunk


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special Starline made it legit?
Post by: The Pathfinder on August 24, 2017, 12:34:23 pm
I wonder if these would work for a light load in an uncut Webley? Any ideas? ??? 455 being so easy to find and all.


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Noz on August 24, 2017, 02:29:08 pm
Do not use 45 ACP dies to load the C45S.  The 45 ACP is a tapered case and the blow back is horrible.

Yea, Yeah there is a reason I know this.


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Bunk Stagnerg on August 24, 2017, 03:58:31 pm
I use a .45 Colt sizing die. an .45 ACP expanding and seating along with a .45 Auto Rim taper crimping die. I make a pretty heavy crimp but the bullet can't "turtle" in the rifle because it is full of real Gun Powder. An accurate hard hitting round that wil make a "klink" on the 100 yard Cody/Dixon target.
Bunk


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Jack Straw on August 24, 2017, 05:41:53 pm
Starline is just a great company, that's all there is to it. ;D ;D

Although I love the idea of .45 Cowboy I've gone  back to full power loads in my .45 Colt and .45 Schofield.   After years of lighter bullets I've come to miss the feel of 230 or 250 grainers.  I want the experience of the real deal.

I wonder if .45 Cowboy RNFP loads will function in a '73 or '66?  If they do it just might allow 10 rounds in a 16" trapper configuration.  Schofield cases have always worked nicely in my toggle rifles so maybe the Cowboy round will too and would not stress a stock extractor like the somewhat wider Schofield rim.


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Abilene on August 24, 2017, 05:51:37 pm
...I wonder if .45 Cowboy RNFP loads will function in a '73 or '66?  If they do it just might allow 10 rounds in a 16" trapper configuration.  Schofield cases have always worked nicely in my toggle rifles so maybe the Cowboy round will too and would not stress a stock extractor like the somewhat wider Schofield rim.

No, they will not feed unless you use the custom carrier from the Smith Shop (which would also prevent you from using standard .45 Colt without changing back to the stock carrier). 

My 16" Trapper '73 from Cimarron holds ten 250gr 45 Colt rounds.  But difficult to load into the tube.  After a couple thousand of those through the carbine, I finally switched to Schofield rounds, which are easier to load.  The Schofield with a 180gr bullet is too short to feed, but with a 200 or 250gr (I use 250gr, which is also my Wild Bunch round) bullet feeds fine in the '73.



Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Johnny_Cyclone on August 24, 2017, 08:22:17 pm
I reload 45 Cowboy Special (45CS) using the LEE .455 Webley Mark II three die set P/N-90764 and a .45 colt shellplate/shellholder.

The sizing die is labeled .45 Colt. The other two dies in the set have Webley markings.

I did add a .45 LEE Factory Crimp Die (FCD)  P/N-90865 in the mix as a 4th station crimp only die. I set the Webley seat/crimp die to seat only.
Makes for a sweet 4 die setup. I like seating and crimping separate. You can do three dies but I like 4... it's a round number.. lol.

So it looks like:

Die 1 - .45 Colt sizer / decapper die (part of the Webley three die set)
Die 2 - .455 Webley Powder thru expander die (part of the Webley three die set)
Die 3 - .455 Webley seat /crimp die (set to seat only, part of the Webley three die set)
Die 4 - Optional -.45 Colt/Webley/Casull FCD (with the carbide ring removed, for crimp only. It's just how I am. I like bullets with big hips :)

Die 4 notes: You could also do die 4 and leave the ring in, or contact LEE and order another Webley seat/crimp die and use it to crimp only. You could grab an old 45 colt seat/crimp die, toss the seat stem, then shorten (cut/grind/machine) the die body so the crimp portion of the die can contact the neck on the shorter 45CS brass... or say the heck with it, ditch the separate seatin' an' crimpin' idea and rock it old school and just use die 3 to seat AND crimp. That method has worked for decades.. lol. Your choice. I'm no judge.

.45 Colt shellplate/shellholder

Shouldn't be too cost prohibitive to grab a 3 die set.
Example:
https://www.titanreloading.com/455-webley-markii-3-die-set-carbide (https://www.titanreloading.com/455-webley-markii-3-die-set-carbide)

If going for that 4th die then:
https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-precision-reloading-equipment/lee-pistol-reloading-dies/lee-pistol-factory-crimp-dies/45-colt455-web454-casull-carbide-crimp-die- (https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-precision-reloading-equipment/lee-pistol-reloading-dies/lee-pistol-factory-crimp-dies/45-colt455-web454-casull-carbide-crimp-die-)

If that didn't make sense let me know and I'll try to correct my verbage here or explain it better in another post?

Anyway it's pretty much how I run it on my Dillon with a Pro Auto Disk. (is that blasphemy? Red and Blue working together for the greater good.. lol) Now that Brass is available and I can go back to loading it in volume I may reinstall the Dillon hopper.

I hope this helps someone.
Good luck.

Case dimensions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.455_Webley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.455_Webley)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP)

I almost forgot, ya might notice that in my reloading setup the dies that would affect case dimensions are .45 colt dies. The Webley'ist portion of the setup is adjusted to only to expand, fill, and seat. So outer 45CS case diameter remains as Colt from neck to base as the colt dies allow.








Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Baltimore Ed on August 24, 2017, 08:48:29 pm
I wonder if these would work for a light load in an uncut Webley? Any ideas? ??? 455 being so easy to find and all.
The rim on the Webley is very, very thin, probably half as thick as a .45 LC which I assume is the same as a Special rim. You would have to thin the rim of the special case or rebate the cylinder of your original uncut cylinder. Not a good idea as uncut martial revolvers bring a premium nowdays. A rebated cylinder will allow about half of the LC case rim to go into the cylinder. I have all 3 versions, original, rebated and shaved (for auto rim or moon clips) in my collection of Webleys, Colts and Smiths. The rebated revolvers are the nicest conversions as they at least still look correct. And you can still shoot the webley brass as it's rim is bigger and it will seat on the uncut part of the cylinder.  Always remember though that you've got to load .454/.455 bullets to get any accuracy in a .455.


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Johnny_Cyclone on August 25, 2017, 03:40:34 pm
For those in need of quick data:

Original Data sheets from back in the day:

http://www.dakotaskipper.net/ebay/cowboy45specialLoadData.pdf (http://www.dakotaskipper.net/ebay/cowboy45specialLoadData.pdf)


Cowboy .45 Special (CB45S), now marketed by Starline as .45 Cowboy Special (45CS)? since cowboy is one word? or would it be (45CBS)?.
Well, whatever I'm giddy..  ;D


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Coffinmaker on August 25, 2017, 07:38:19 pm

The Cowboy 45 Special has "ALWAYS" been legit.  Adirondack Jack made it legit originally.  The only real problem has been the folks who paid for exclusive rights to the cartridge weren't real good at maintaining availability after AJ sold the business.

Having it available directly from Starline is Uber way KOOL.  Reasonably priced too.  Really nifty cartridge.
 


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Major 2 on August 26, 2017, 02:01:14 am
The underlying thing is, Starline see's enough future in CAS to tool up....

That is a good thing  :)


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Bunk Stagnerg on August 26, 2017, 06:29:45 am
.45 CAS brass loaded with 1.3 c/c FFFg and a 200 grain BL bullet runs through my 1860 Henry (Happy Trails lifter) slick as can be.
Accurate and hard hitting. I would love to get a crack and one of the feral hogs that roam back inmy back pasture the Darby Rough.
A loading very similiar to mine, the .44 Henry rim fire, worked very well then and should work well now.
Hold center
Bunk


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: The Pathfinder on August 26, 2017, 09:41:54 am
Thanks, guys for the replies about the Webley. Already got 3, a Mk IV and a Mk VI untouched, and a shaved Mk V. Ordered the brass the other day, so we'll have to see how it turns out.


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: treebeard on August 26, 2017, 10:58:09 am
Anyone know if 45 Cowboy Special can be used in a Marlin 45 Colt Cowboy?


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Coffinmaker on August 26, 2017, 11:26:03 am
HEY Treebeard   :D

Yep.  I keno the answer to that one   ::)    NO.  Not in a stock rifle.  However, you can contact Widdomaker Hill whom hangs out on the SASS wire.  He can do a rather nifty modification to the Marlin that will cause it to feed 45 Colt and C45S interchangeably.  Run em a fast as you can run the lever (faster actually).

ADDITIONALY:  For a little more information ..... I load on a Dillon 650.  Been running Cowboy 45 Special thru it since before there were Cowboy Special (need separate thread).  For the Dillonestas ... I run the OEM Dillon Resize die.  The OEM Dillon Expander Powder drop die.  The OEM Dillon 45 ACP seater die with the plug reversed.  And finish up with a Redding Profile Crimp die.  I consider a good tight Roll Crimp essential.  I shoot Cowboy 45 Special cases in 4 different Henry Rifles of 4 different barrel lengths, an 1866 Trapper (16 inch barrel) and an 1873 Trapper (rifle) w/16 inch barrel.  Tube magazines really prefer a Roll Crimp.

Of course I also shoot the C45S cartridge in my conversion pistols when I find need of a Suppository Shooter (bad weather) or I'm too lazy to load Cap Guns an a given day (yes ... it happens) and still want to shoot my Snubbies.  Have Suppository Cylinders - Will Travel.

It has not mattered what I have shot C45S thru, Accuracy has been outstanding for CAS.  The true Beez Kneez for a revolver though, is a SA fitted with a 45 ACP Cylinder.  Digests C45S cases like PoP Corn!!  Try um, yule like um!!  (C45S cases).


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Bunk Stagnerg on August 26, 2017, 03:04:33 pm
I have been in love with them since I got my first 100 from AJ himself. for revolvers 1.3c/c FFg and a 175 grain BL bullet makes smoke and klank every time (if you point the barrel thing correctly). Depending on the weather and posse sizcap guns or suppository guns rifle and revolver get fed the .45 CAS and i am glad Starline is cranking them out.
hold center
Bunk


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Bibbyman on August 27, 2017, 09:02:16 am
Anyone know if 45 Cowboy Special can be used in a Marlin 45 Colt Cowboy?

Yes, BUT..  It requires that the carrier be modified.

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/Widdermajic_Marlin.htm

https://youtu.be/gI3OSo4nugo


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Baltimore Ed on August 27, 2017, 09:44:24 am
Don't see the draw to swap easy to load plentiful LC brass for pricy hard to get spcl brass. The only edge that I can see is if you like really short carbines, this may be the only way you can squeeze 10 rds into the magazine. If you're trying to load gamer loads why mess with a .45. I don't know offhand what the oal difference is between Schofield brass and spcl but it can't be that much. Curious.


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Johnny_Cyclone on August 27, 2017, 03:50:02 pm
45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 45 ACP, and 45 Auto Rim.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/cartridges/45colt45scho45acp45ar.jpg)
original pic by Driftwood Johnson

(https://www.americanrifleman.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/45cowboyspecial_web.jpg)
Wiley Clapp - American Rifleman - December 18, 2013


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Coffinmaker on August 27, 2017, 03:58:28 pm
B Ed,

Because.  There are a lot of folks out there who have 45s.  They wan t them to be more comfortable to shoot.  They aren't necessarily "GAMERS" and they aren't necessarily chasing "Gamer Loads."  

For a less "intense" experience, something easier on the wrist, the 45 Colt is a very inefficient cartridge.  Getting a good burn at reduced load levels can be difficult at best.  The 45 CS allows a lighter load in a more efficient configuration.  Instead of messing with tons of "fillers" a smaller case just makes more sense.

Now that Starline is selling it direct, it's not "Pricy" nor "hard to get" special brass.  Buy it like any other brass.  There is a marked difference in length between 45 Schofield and 45 Spl.  Just go to your supply of brass and set a 45 ACP next to a Schofield.  The difference will become painfully obvious.  Nanny Nanny Poo Poo!! ::)


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Johnny_Cyclone on August 27, 2017, 04:07:28 pm
Does anyone have a pic of a .44 Henry cartridge next to a .45 Cowboy Special for comparison sake?
Curious minds and all that ya know..


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Baltimore Ed on August 27, 2017, 04:14:17 pm
C,
Thank you very much for the enlightenment. Sometimes I speak before I measure. Nanny nanny poo pooo?????? Well, I never heard such!!!
B.Ed


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Dick Dastardly on August 27, 2017, 08:14:15 pm
I ordered 1000 pieces.  Maybe I should have ordered more.

DD-MDA


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Coffinmaker on August 29, 2017, 01:07:29 pm

DD ......

Brass is like Oreos.  One can never have too much.   ;D

Smedley


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: rbertalotto on August 30, 2017, 04:19:41 pm
Darn! I won a $50 gift certificate to Starline at the last Cowboy shoot. I use 45CS and would have used the gift certificate for more 45CS. Instead I "wasted" the certificate on more 38-40

BTW, their description says...."Generally these can be loaded using .45 Colt dies".....That would be 45ACP dies....

I've been shooting them for years and have never seen a split case. Fantastic for black powder shooting with Big Lube bullets

(http://images54.fotki.com/v104/photos/2/36012/10360662/withwords-vi.jpg)


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Dick Dastardly on August 31, 2017, 01:03:50 pm
Great image Rbertalotto,

This will help fellow shooters to know what the C45Spl looks like as well as showing the very appropriate use of the 45 Slim Big Lube bullets.

DD-MDA


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: rbertalotto on August 31, 2017, 01:33:25 pm
Loving me those Big Lubes!


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: greyhawk on August 31, 2017, 09:44:43 pm
Darn! I won a $50 gift certificate to Starline at the last Cowboy shoot. I use 45CS and would have used the gift certificate for more 45CS. Instead I "wasted" the certificate on more 38-40

NO ! -----buying 38/40 is never a waste




Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Coffinmaker on August 31, 2017, 10:31:58 pm
Are .. Bert .. Allotto,

Prey tell kind Sir ..... Have you run em C45S and 45 Slim Big Lubes thru a Toggle Link Rifle???  Looks too much like a Semi-Wad-Kutter, too run in Toggle Rifles.  Would work a treat as a pistol round though Betcha.


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: rbertalotto on September 03, 2017, 11:17:06 am
No, I only use them in converted 1860 Colts with Kirst conversion cylinders. I shoot 38-40 in my rifles.


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Coffinmaker on September 03, 2017, 12:29:32 pm
Ah So!!  Just as I suspected.  Not being critical either.  Semi-Wad Cutters of any flavor do not play well in Toggle Link Rifles.  Marginal at best in Fish and '92s too.  Howsome Ever:

Ever since before it's inception (C45S) and ever since it's inception (C45S) I have found the cartridge to be just absolutely dandy in all the 45 handguns I shoot.  My 1860 Snubbies and my 1851 .44 Snubbies are equipped with R&D type conversion cylinders and the C45S allows really nice shooting reduced loads without messing with fillers (mostly).  Also run quite nicely in my Open Tops.

Also just superb fun in Toggle link rifles modified to run the C45S.  Really fun to get `12 rounds in a Henry Trapper with a 16 inch barrel.  Or a '73 Trapper,  or a '66 Trapper, or stuff 18 of em in a full length Henry (WOW it gets HOT).  Just all round great FUN!!!


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Bibbyman on October 11, 2017, 11:38:41 am
Ah So!!  Just as I suspected.  Not being critical either.  Semi-Wad Cutters of any flavor do not play well in Toggle Link Rifles.  Marginal at best in Fish and '92s too.  Howsome Ever:

Ever since before it's inception (C45S) and ever since it's inception (C45S) I have found the cartridge to be just absolutely dandy in all the 45 handguns I shoot.  My 1860 Snubbies and my 1851 .44 Snubbies are equipped with R&D type conversion cylinders and the C45S allows really nice shooting reduced loads without messing with fillers (mostly).  Also run quite nicely in my Open Tops.

Also just superb fun in Toggle link rifles modified to run the C45S.  Really fun to get `12 rounds in a Henry Trapper with a 16 inch barrel.  Or a '73 Trapper,  or a '66 Trapper, or stuff 18 of em in a full length Henry (WOW it gets HOT).  Just all round great FUN!!!

You didn't include the Marlin 1894 as modified by Widowmaker Hill.

https://youtu.be/RssZK2ljFJw


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Coffinmaker on October 11, 2017, 07:52:49 pm
Well Hi Bibbyman!!

Just so.  Just so.  Basically atz 'cause I don't have one.  AJ first worked out the carrier modification that became the Widdermagic.  After Widder works his "Magic" onna Fish, can be a really competitive rifle and run C45S like wet grain thru a Goose.  I'm not sure if a Widdermagic will run 45 Semi-Wadcutters though.  It may.  Toggles won't.  Dandy pistol cartridge.


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Bibbyman on October 11, 2017, 08:41:01 pm
Well Hi Bibbyman!!

Just so.  Just so.  Basically atz 'cause I don't have one.  AJ first worked out the carrier modification that became the Widdermagic.  After Widder works his "Magic" onna Fish, can be a really competitive rifle and run C45S like wet grain thru a Goose.  I'm not sure if a Widdermagic will run 45 Semi-Wadcutters though.  It may.  Toggles won't.  Dandy pistol cartridge.

Did you fire off the video I linked?  They even fed empty cases.


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Noz on October 12, 2017, 02:25:44 pm
Darn! I won a $50 gift certificate to Starline at the last Cowboy shoot. I use 45CS and would have used the gift certificate for more 45CS. Instead I "wasted" the certificate on more 38-40

BTW, their description says...."Generally these can be loaded using .45 Colt dies".....That would be 45ACP dies....

I've been shooting them for years and have never seen a split case. Fantastic for black powder shooting with Big Lube bullets

(http://images54.fotki.com/v104/photos/2/36012/10360662/withwords-vi.jpg)

I found that when I reloaded C45S cases using 45 ACP dies that I had an excessive amount of blowback.  The 45 ACP uses a tapered case. The 45 Colt is a straight wall. Changing to a 45 Colt sizing die solved the problem.


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Lucky R. K. on October 13, 2017, 09:31:51 am
I found that when I reloaded C45S cases using 45 ACP dies that I had an excessive amount of blowback.  The 45 ACP uses a tapered case. The 45 Colt is a straight wall. Changing to a 45 Colt sizing die solved the problem.

I had the same problem Noz. I solved it by shortening an old roll crimp die. It works great and really helped blowback.

Lucky (http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l361/decapper/grin_zpsebe960c5.png)


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Dick Dastardly on October 22, 2017, 09:07:36 pm
No blowback worries whutsomever in my 1860s with Kirst Konverters.  I use 45 ACP dies with #11 shell holder.  I do, however, get some off color comments when I shoot the lil C45Spl ammo with my old model ROAs.  Big horse pistols with lil boolits.  They don't buck and snort much from those heavy guns.

DD-MDA


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Drydock on October 29, 2017, 07:28:36 pm
Now please Starline, thin the rim a bit and give us .455 Webley Mk I brass!


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Dick Dastardly on October 29, 2017, 10:19:36 pm
Ho Drydock,

Starline will perhaps do that if you will pony up for 50,000 pieces. . .


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on October 30, 2017, 11:11:41 am
Ho Drydock,

Starline will perhaps do that if you will pony up for 50,000 pieces. . .

I'll taken 500!


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Dick Dastardly on November 08, 2017, 11:09:55 am
I've got a couple thousand or so Big Lube® J/P 45 200g cast up.  They will go in C45Spl brass and 45 Colt brass.  This seems to be my ideal Big Lube® bullet for those two kinds of brass.  Heavy enough to take Bambi or KDs and light enough that the recoil is manageable.

DD-MDA


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Jefro on November 08, 2017, 01:20:01 pm
I've got a couple thousand or so Big Lube® J/P 45 200g cast up.  They will go in C45Spl brass and 45 Colt brass.  This seems to be my ideal Big Lube® bullet for those two kinds of brass.  Heavy enough to take Bambi or KDs and light enough that the recoil is manageable.

DD-MDA
Yep, I tried them with EPP-150.....but I prefer the 200gr. ;)


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special Starline made it legit?
Post by: Cliff Fendley on November 16, 2017, 07:36:37 pm
That CAS case with 1.3 c/c FFFg powder and a 200 grain bullet, I believe, pretty much  duplicates the ballistics of the original 44 Henry load.
Correct me if i am wrong.
Bunk

I've seen that the original 44 Henry had 28 grains of black powder with a 200 grain bullet which is what a 45 Schofield uses. Seems to me the 45 Cowboy special would be an anemic round even comparing to the old 45 Henry.


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Cliff Fendley on November 16, 2017, 07:39:02 pm
The underlying thing is, Starline see's enough future in CAS to tool up....

That is a good thing  :)


That is a very good thing


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Coffinmaker on November 16, 2017, 09:31:08 pm
How about ..... Let us Remember ....... and Understand .......

The 44 Henry Flat was a Balloon Head straight wall Copper Case round, designed and intended primarily as a Pseudo Military round to do great harm to soft pink Bodies.  Follow that part??

The Cowboy 45 Special was designed to be a reduced recoil round to promote the .45 Caliber as being competitive in CAS to .38 loadings.  However, with a 200Gr projectile, velocities are achieved that would not be considered "Anemic."  Certainly quite lethal.  The velocities obtained are not that far off from "others" and one should retain sight of the design objective.  Ringing Steel Plates.


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special Starline made it legit?
Post by: wildman1 on November 17, 2017, 08:03:22 am
I've seen that the original 44 Henry had 28 grains of black powder with a 200 grain bullet which is what a 45 Schofield uses. Seems to me the 45 Cowboy special would be an anemic round even comparing to the old 45 Henry.
I've heard the same thing about 45acp and 9mm.
Anemic.
NOT!
wM1


Title: Re: 45 Cowboy Special: Starline made it legit?
Post by: Dick Dastardly on November 17, 2017, 01:51:26 pm
Howdy Cliff,

The US Army went to the Colt 1911 pistol chambered in 45ACP because they needed more firepower.  The 45ACP is NOT a puny round, even by today's magnum mania standards.

The Cowboy 45 Special brass has the SAME internal volume as the 45ACP, uses the same primer and bullet.  The ONLY difference is the rim.  The C45Spl has the same rim as the 45Colt.  Now, if that rim makes that much difference to you, shoot 45 Colt and stay happy.  However, my Pietta Army 1860 open tops are too fragile to handle a full house 45 Colt load and would shake apart after a couple of matches.  With the C45Spl and 20 grains of FFFg black powder under a J/P45-200 the guns will last a lot longer.  No, it's not an ROA but I sure like the way it points and shoots.  I have Kirst Konverter cylinders and a gated plates and Kirst ejectors.  They are right handsome shootin' irons and I really like their fit to my big hands.

Were I to need something more robust I'd load up my brace of ROAs with strong 45 Colt ammo and have at it.  For home defence I have a 12ga SxS by my bed.  With 33.5 grains of smokeless behind a buffered load of 1.5oz. of #3 nickel plated shot, this would be my 1st choice hall sweeper.

So, yes, there's a place for light recoiling loads in SASS shooting and the C45Spl fills the bill nicely.

DD-MDA