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GENERAL TOPICS => Books & Movies => Topic started by: Shawnee McGrutt on August 22, 2017, 04:57:41 pm



Title: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Shawnee McGrutt on August 22, 2017, 04:57:41 pm
Saw today that Christian Bale, has a new western coming out.  Believe it is about the Indian Wars?
Anybody seen any previews or have any knowledge?


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on August 22, 2017, 06:08:17 pm
That's news to me, but if they keep this cast, there are some familiar actors that I like:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5478478/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5478478/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1)

Thanks for pointing that out!  The world NEEDS more westerns.

CC Griff

(At our house, when I ask, "Do you know how long it's been since I've seen a western?", the correct answer is, "TOO LONG!")


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Ben Beam on August 22, 2017, 06:11:26 pm
Quote
Directed by Scott Cooper, the Western is set in 1892 and stars Bale as Captain Joseph J. Blocker who, after stern resistance, reluctantly agrees to escort a dying Cheyenne war chief and his family back home to tribal lands. Making the harrowing and perilous journey from New Mexico to the grasslands of Montana, the former rivals encounter a young widow whose family was murdered on the plains. Together, they must join forces to overcome the punishing landscape, hostile Comanche and vicious outliers encountered along the way.

Wes Studi also stars as the escorted Chief Yellow Hawk, and Rosamund Pike plays the young widow they meet. Jesse Plemons, Ben Foster and Timothee Chalamet are also featured in the cast.

Cooper, who also directed Bale in the 2013 Western Out of the Furnace, produced the indie along with Ken Kao and John Lesher. He also rewrote the script first penned by the late Donald Stewart, who won an Oscar for co-writing the 1982 Jack Lemmon drama Missing.

The title will have its international premiere at the Toronto Film Festival.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: G Bulldog Grainisland III on August 23, 2017, 05:21:22 am
This is good news indeed. Whilst not a fan or Mr Bale the plot sounds good to me ;)

-Bulldog


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Johnny McCrae on October 31, 2017, 07:55:45 am
I've been anxiously waiting the release of this movie. It looks like it will be December 22, 2017 in selected theaters.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: nagantino on November 03, 2017, 05:55:32 am
It sounds good. The Quest/ Journey always fits the western theme, like True Grit.  However, let's wait and see. Westerns are a very personal thing, like many friends told me that the remake of The Magnificent Seven was great while thought it Tosh. I like Christian Bale and I like the outline of the story. Please be good.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Jeremiah Jones on November 03, 2017, 09:08:06 am
Plot sounds good.  I was afraid it would be another evil white-Cavalry unit kills peaceful, nature loving, Indians type movie.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Jake C on November 03, 2017, 01:03:08 pm
Plot sounds good.  I was afraid it would be another evil white-Cavalry unit kills peaceful, nature loving, Indians type movie.

Just my belief, but I think we're getting to a more balanced view of the Indian Wars (a lot more gray rather than black & white). 'Hell on Wheels' and 'Deadwood' both showed Native Americans as frequently hostile and cruel, which is probably realistic. They also showed that the American response tended to match them in terms of cruelty. The last history I've read concerning the Apaches also didn't shy away from mutual brutality.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: nagantino on November 04, 2017, 07:50:16 am
Your right in that a more nuanced view of the Indian wars has developed in American cinema. It's a tragic history, that's for sure, but a movie that portrays the Indian or the white man as blameless is of no help. For example, if a story about the Comanche or the Apache did not include a portrayal of cruelty on the part of the tribes then it would be as false as a portrayal of the cavalry as gallant horsemen. It's complex, and I would not blame a Director shying away from such a portrayal. Maybe we were not ready for the truth.

For a book that shows how misunderstanding and cruelty from both sides created a downward spiral of  murder, kidnap, rape and ultimately annihilation, then read Empire of the Summer Moon by SC Gwynne is a must read.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Jake C on November 04, 2017, 08:41:59 am
I agree wholeheartedly. And 'Empire of the Summer Moon' is next on my reading list actually. Have to finish 'The Devil in the White City' & 'Who Goes There' first.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: JimBob on November 13, 2017, 06:34:34 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M5cj4UmscE


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on November 13, 2017, 07:20:06 pm
This has the potential to be a good one.  I certainly hope so; it has been a while.

CC Griff


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: MattSnow on November 14, 2017, 12:45:50 am
I like Bale and really really like Pike as an actress  ::), looking forward to see the movie in a cinema.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: nagantino on December 04, 2017, 05:50:04 pm
You know, that looks good. There seems to be an interesting play between the Black Troopers and the Indian prisoners also and the action is promising also. Let's keep or fingers crossed.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Shawnee McGrutt on December 15, 2017, 02:08:46 pm
one more week till Hostiles is released...Dec.22...
a lot of movies out there for Christmas, I hope the local theater gets it
This cowboy wants to see a western for Christmas & hoping for a good one


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Shawnee McGrutt on January 03, 2018, 05:21:42 pm
I can't wait
Saw a trailer on the local news...they say everywhere January 19, limited January 5
I hope it is as good, as they are hyping it.



Hey you guys on the southeastern coast, keep your snow down there
Tomorrow I will have 40-50mph winds, 12-18 inches of that nasty snow
At least it has warmed up


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Johnny McCrae on January 07, 2018, 09:06:52 am
I can't remember when I've looked forward to a movie premiere as much as this one. While searching for a start date in my area I found this link: https://www.fandango.com/movie-trailer/hostiles-trailer/205214?autoplay=true&mpxId=1118587459797
It is a series of clips from the movie.

Has it opened anywhere?


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Shawnee McGrutt on January 07, 2018, 05:34:51 pm
Yes it has opened, couldn't find it playing in Maine.   
Boston was the closest, for me that I could find.  Gives me an excuse to see my daughters and granddaughters.
Johnny McCrae, I believe you are from Wisconsin, I couldn't find it there as well.
From what I have seen on reviews...it  is a mix.



Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Johnny McCrae on January 08, 2018, 07:36:42 am
Howdy Shawnee,

I'm from Wisconsin. I've looked all over and can't find anything even close to me.



Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Shawnee McGrutt on January 08, 2018, 10:59:16 am
Guess we have to wait till the 19th., but I can't find it in any of the local theaters coming soon listings.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Good Troy on January 09, 2018, 10:18:32 am
It is playing in one theater in Houston.  I plan to go see it but probably not until next week (1/19!). 
I'll give an opinion once I see it.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on January 25, 2018, 01:21:28 pm
Well, folks, this opens tomorrow locally for me.  My daughter and I have plans to go to the matinee.  I hope it's good...

CC Griff


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Johnny McCrae on January 25, 2018, 01:58:48 pm
Hostiles finally opens tonight in our area.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Shawnee McGrutt on January 25, 2018, 02:30:42 pm
Opens here tomorrow...they keep setting it back, ???  Any idea why?  I think it has been 2-3 times.
I will see a matinee for sure,tomorrow, cheap tickets and a western...like being a kid
Wondering if they say anything if I carried  :-\ :o


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Johnny McCrae on January 26, 2018, 08:19:03 am
I'm getting over a cold and hopefully I'll see at next Tuesday's matinee.

A senior matinee ticket is $6.00. A regular matinee ticket is $9.50. You can pay up to $11.50 depending when you go. I only mention this because back in 1950 we had a local theater that played two B Westerns every Sunday. The price of a kid's ticket was $.11 (eleven cents ).

We usually watched Johnny Mack Brown, Rocky Lane, Roy Rogers, Gene Autry and a bunch of others.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Shawnee McGrutt on January 26, 2018, 04:48:29 pm
Saw it this afternoon, fair number of people, for a matinee.
I liked it...

My ticket was free...a promotional deal...buy x number of tickets at $6.00, get x number of tickets for free...think it was for the pound.
But a bag of Swedish Fish was four bucks...I don't go to movies that often anymore...
The new Eastwood movie looks interesting...15:17 to Paris.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Jake C on January 27, 2018, 06:30:58 am
I went last night with my wife, but there was only 1 seat left, and we couldn't go to another showing, so we ended up seeing a different movie. Hoping to go see it either today or tomorrow.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on January 27, 2018, 03:01:40 pm
I really hate to say this, but I was disappointed by this movie.  It was very well acted and the cinematography was excellent.  The location filming (one of the few recent westerns filmed in the US) was great.  Even the basic plot line was interesting.  I liked the costumes, props and firearms (although I'm not entirely certain that a US Army officer in the 1890s would be carrying a Winchester 1873 carbine or that one of his troopers would be carrying a Spencer carbine at that late date).

I don't want to go into details for fear of giving away the story for those who haven't seen it, but here are a couple of problems that I had.  I felt that the considerable violence was not entirely realistic.  The details of the violence seemed realistic, but the characters all seemed to have a death wish.  Most people, then and now, are a little cautious when it comes to entering into a situation where they might be killed.  Most of the people in this movie had no such caution.  When faced with a situation where starting a shootout is certainly going to lead to a heavy toll on their own side, I would expect to see people try to put themselves into a better tactical position or to avoid the gunfight entirely.  In this movie, the characters just pull their guns and start shooting.  It was realistic in that these events DO lead to a heavy toll on both sides, but I felt that the way it happened was unrealistic.

Another issue that I had with it had to do with the way the characters' attitudes change over the course of the film.  I think that it was a major point of the story to have people who were "hostile" towards each other begin to respect each other, but they seemed to go from an extreme hate at the beginning to an extreme love at the end, which seemed highly unlikely over the course of maybe the month or so depicted in the movie.  People with deeply ingrained hatred don't give that up easily.  Many (most) stories and films like to show the way that characters change due to the events in the story, but I had trouble believing that one.  Maybe changing from distrust/dislike to grudging respect might have been more believable for me.

Again, I'm trying to avoid giving away details, but those are the two main things that disappointed me about the movie.  There was a lot to like about it and I have little doubt that I'll watch it again when it comes out on DVD, but I was really hoping for a great western and this wasn't it.  Hopefully it does well in the box office to encourage more westerns in the future...

Oh--at the showing I attended, there were maybe 10 people in the theater and probably 6 of them talked through the movie and two different people had their cell phones ring, one apparently not hearing it because it rang for about a minute before it stopped.  Have some courtesy, folks.

CC Griff


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Doug.38PR on January 28, 2018, 08:59:44 pm
I thought the last of the Comanches were subdued in 1875.  17 years before the movie takes place


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Jake C on January 29, 2018, 08:07:00 am
Saw it on Saturday. On the whole, I liked it. I thought that what the film did right, it did extremely well. I believe it'll be one I get when it comes out on Blu-Ray. I thought Christian Bale was phenomenal. I personally liked that it showed a bit more nuance to the Indian Wars than we see a lot of the time.

My issues with the film were similar to the ones Coal Creek Griff pointed out. I would have liked to have seen more scenes that showed the more gradual changing of a few of the characters' attitudes towards each other. Watching the film, I understood that a fair amount of time was passing, and that characters would naturally be changing throughout that time, especially given the hard circumstances, but we never really saw that.

As for the shootouts, I do agree that there was a lack of caution from a few of the characters. I do partially think that's because obviously moving towards a better position might encourage your opponent to open fire in order to deny one an advantage, but there wasn't an excuse for failing to maneuver towards a superior position once lead started flying.

My biggest criticism was that the Native members of the party didn't seem as fleshed out as they could have been. Considering how important they to the plot, I could have used more characterization.

Despite these flaws, I would still consider far more hit than miss.

Quote
I thought the last of the Comanches were subdued in 1875.  17 years before the movie takes place

Doug, the characters explicitly state that the group in the film were Comanches who had jumped the reservation. It might be more accurate to just call them bandits or raiders who happened to be Comanche, if that makes sense.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Cholla Hill Tirador on January 29, 2018, 12:34:17 pm
Saw it last night, not bad at all. But I had to look past the fact that there were no marauding Comanche's wearing war paint and still shooting arrows in 1892. Still I'd recommend it!

  CHT


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Doug.38PR on January 29, 2018, 02:43:40 pm

Doug, the characters explicitly state that the group in the film were Comanches who had jumped the reservation. It might be more accurate to just call them bandits or raiders who happened to be Comanche, if that makes sense.

I kept listening for an explanation such as that, but I never heard it.  Guess it got past me.   But like Cholla Tirador said, still wearing war paint and shooting arrows seemed a little far fetched. 

But looking past that and the little political correctness they threw in, it was a very good movie.   Was surprised Wes Studi, the Cheyenne Indian chief, didn't have more to say and do in the movie.  He just kind of sat around, coughed, slept and talked in Cheyenne and implied that he and his son killed what was left of those Comanche raiders. 


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Dave T on January 29, 2018, 04:29:40 pm
Saw it last night, not bad at all. But I had to look past the fact that there were no marauding Comanche's wearing war paint and still shooting arrows in 1892. Still I'd recommend it!

  CHT

CHT, if my memory is correct the Ghost Dance movement got big in the 1890s (don't remember the specific years now). Many of the Ghost Dancers, thinking they were protected by magic went back to the old ways and picked up bows, arrows and hide shields. I remember seeing a vintage photo of the Ghost Dancers and they were painted up pretty good too.

My only point is, just because it was supposed to be 1892 not everyone had moved on to camo and M-16s (LOL).

Dave


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Cholla Hill Tirador on January 29, 2018, 07:06:10 pm
CHT, if my memory is correct the Ghost Dance movement got big in the 1890s (don't remember the specific years now). Many of the Ghost Dancers, thinking they were protected by magic went back to the old ways and picked up bows, arrows and hide shields. I remember seeing a vintage photo of the Ghost Dancers and they were painted up pretty good too.

My only point is, just because it was supposed to be 1892 not everyone had moved on to camo and M-16s (LOL).

Dave

  The Ghost Dance had its beginnings in about 1889 and from what I understand was prevalent with the northern Plains indians. I've read "Nine Years Among the Indians" and "Empire of the Summer Moon" both of which deal with the Comanche tribe (especially the latter book), and don't recall any talk at all about the Ghost Dance. The Ghost Dance was blamed as the cause, if only partly, of the Battle of Wounded Knee in 1890.

    I think they were no different than the rest of us in they would seek out the best tool for the job. When steel trade points became available, they used them whenever possible instead of knapping flint points. In Nine Years Among the Indians, Hermann Lehmann talks about making arrow points out of barrel hoops. So, why in 1892 would an Indian bandit bother with a stick and string when firearms were everywhere, especially easy to take while pillaging?
  All that said, 99.9% of the people watching the movie had no idea when the Comanche's were finally all on reservations or what type weapons they used. I can easily overlook the historically incorrect portions of the movie.

  CHT


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Doug.38PR on January 30, 2018, 07:51:27 am
CHT, if my memory is correct the Ghost Dance movement got big in the 1890s (don't remember the specific years now). Many of the Ghost Dancers, thinking they were protected by magic went back to the old ways and picked up bows, arrows and hide shields. I remember seeing a vintage photo of the Ghost Dancers and they were painted up pretty good too.

My only point is, just because it was supposed to be 1892 not everyone had moved on to camo and M-16s (LOL).

Dave

I thought the Ghost Dance was popular with the Souix and/or Cheyenne Indians of the Dakotas and Wyoming rather than the Comanche of Texas.


Also fell a little flat for me was the “tactic” the husband employed of simply running outside in the open with his yellowboy rifle and running at the mounted Indians on foot yelling and wirkibg his lever instead of staying inside firing from the fortified position of his cabin


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Jake C on January 30, 2018, 09:05:58 am
Also fell a little flat for me was the “tactic” the husband employed of simply running outside in the open with his yellowboy rifle and running at the mounted Indians on foot yelling and wirkibg his lever instead of staying inside firing from the fortified position of his cabin

Yeah, that made no sense to me. The only thing I could think of was the guy just panicked and wasn't thinking.


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Dave T on January 30, 2018, 10:01:17 am
CHT & Doug,

My point wasn't that the Comanches were into the Ghost Dance movement, simply that use of traditional weapons (bow & arrow) and getting painted up was not un-heard of as late as 1890. The scenario in the movie as described isn't all that farfetched to me. At least not enough to keep me from seeing this movie.

Dave



Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: Johnny McCrae on January 30, 2018, 02:36:22 pm
Finally got to see it today. I liked it.
 


Title: Re: New western : Hostiles
Post by: PJ Hardtack on February 06, 2018, 09:56:12 pm
I loved the scenery and the lack of endless babble talk dialogue. Sometimes less is more. However, I wish they had done a little less mumbling at times.

Wes Studi was a study in reticence and stoicism. Reminded me of Chief Dan George at his best, the silent calm of wisdom and resignation to age and infirmity.

My take away from the movie was the commonality of the human condition and pain. No one is exempt. There is a dark side to human nature as well as the light. How we choose to deal with it defines our character.

Would have been better had there been some BP smoke. Best movie with Christian Bale since "Empire of the Sun".