Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => USFA CSS => Topic started by: frimath on August 02, 2017, 04:18:51 PM
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I got a "line" on a 3" model Ser. # SMCO31 its "dome blue" . I'm told its a "Turnbull gun" in terms of the dome finish. After reading everything here I still cant figure out if its worth buying. I put a hold on it and getting ready to send the funds so I guess this is the last step before pulling the trigger! Any thoughts on what the price range should be on what seems to be a NIB revolver? Its a pretty gun ( I'd really prefer the CC finish on the frame) I've been looking for a Colt Sheriff but they are so darn expensive and they seem to always be in 44-40. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. Thx Lobo
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I think all Turnbiull guns have a DT prefix or suffix and I have never seen a Turnbull gun that didn't have CC. I could be wrong though so maybe someone that knows more than me will chime in.
Also, I think Turnbull USFA revolvers had what he called Carbona Blue. Looks like the Old Armory Blue.
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By "good one" I assume you mean a 100% American made USFA?
It's probably USA made if:
The front sight is of even thickness rather than tapered. Except I think if it has a black powder frame it can still be American made even if it has a tapered front sight.
The hammer checkering is hand cut, not cast.
The cylinder flutes are wide, well rounded at the point and the point does not extend past the cylinder notches.
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If it has a USPFA(United States 'Patent' Firearms) barrel address it's Italian.
If it has a hammer block safety it's Italian.
If it has the word "Uberti" written under the barrel it's Italian.
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Well I tried posting a photo but I guess I can't do it now until I get it in my hands. There are no Italian markings, no "Uberti" underneath. The hammer seems to be hand checkered, and the firing pin is a fixed conical shaped one. At least that's what the seller has described. The front sight seems to be a bit bigger at the base and a bit of a taper to the top but the front sight is pretty thick and even as far as I can see on the photo.
I can't believe the price of these things but I tried to get a couple just when it seems they were at their worst and just before the crash. I was also in the process of "pulling the trigger" on one of their beautiful Lightning rifles but that went the way of the DODO bird as well.
So, I guess when I get it in I'll post a couple of photos! Thanks for the insight and assistance.
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Saw that one on line, pretty sure that one is all US made ,looks like a nice piece.
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Funds went out and its on its way. I can't believe the prices these pieces are bringing. Its a pretty piece and the price didn't seem to be "out there" given some other postins I've seen. I like the caliber and that was the defining factor for me. It seems that the vast majority of the COLTS are 44 spec- 44-40 win. Its described as NIB and has all of the box and sock and paperwork to go with it. At this point I think its going to be a shooter so the box and additional stuff I suppose isn't quite as important. What's the point of having these things if not to shoot them?!?! But that's just me.
I've already been thinking of modding it to a lightning grip and new stag grips or maybe even some ivories but I haven't figured it all out yet. Going to need a "Doc Holiday" type rig and maybe even a small cross-draw holster.............. the price was $1650.
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Frimath,
I, for one, would be very reluctant to modify a USFA with any parts that came from anywhere other than the USFA factory, assuming that your "lightning grips" would be of Italian (Uberti) manufacture. It would completely destroy any collector value that your gun would hold (and lets face it, USFA collectors and SAA purists are where the money is at these days).
There were no "1877 lightning style" gripped Colt SAA's back in Doc Holliday's day (or, for that matter, even our days) so why try to replicate something that never existed?
Shoot it, enjoy it, keep it, but don't modify it.
CJF
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Congrads...nice gun!
Late to the party I know. All USA made gun. That serial number will be a Black powder framer, narrow tapered front sight and V notch rear. The finish is Turnbull case colored and Dome blue he cheaper of the two blueing options from USFA. Should have a 3.5" barrel not a 3". But one never knows with USFA :)
The price being asked is reasonable.
If you want a "doc Holiday" gun my suggestion is save your money (your grip frame mod done well will almost double the cost of your new gun) and the USFA gun and simply buy the "Doc Holiday" gun offered by Cimarron. Nice guns.
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Is this the gun?
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/revolvers/usfa-pistols-revolvers/u-s-f-a-cowboy-sheriff-45-lc.cfm?gun_id=100821054
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(http://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_6722/gi_100697907/U-S-F-A-Cowboy-Sheriff-45-LC_100697907_6722_8904893DFF818B64.jpg)
Not Turnbull finished. Dome blue by USFA. Yes on USA made. It is a 3" (not a 3.5" as I said) it is BP frame with V notch rear and a tapered front sight.
over priced I think for a USED, simple blued gun @ 1650.
Just my opinion....and worth what ya paid for it. :)
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$1650 does not seem like that bad of a price for a 100% USA made gun. It might be unfired. The pictures don't show the cylinder face. The only damage I see for sure is a light to moderate turn line. The screw heads look fine. I don't know how much being full blue takes off the value as opposed to being color case hardened?
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$1650 would be a great price (as in low ball) for blue and cased USA gun of any barrel length. Too steep for a Rodeo or a Cowboy IMO all though folks are asking that and more.
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Although I respect yahoody's expertise as he has owned and had experience with USFA's far more than I have, I think his assessment of frimath's new-to-him USFA Cowboy sheriff model is a bit overly critical.
There is a lot of reflection in the photos. I do think there is some holster wear on the revolver as indicated by what appears to be a thinning of the blue at the muzzle and perhaps a little on the cylinder face edges, but again that might be more reflection also. The turn line is pretty light which could have been done by one or two times rotating the cylinder by hand by someone unfamiliar with how to handle single action revolvers. I also see the shiny spots in the cylinder locking notches which means to me the revolver has been cocked numerous times, but it still may have never been fired.
I think it is a stretch to call the firearm new. Just because a firearm hasn't been fired doesn't mean you can still consider it new. I do agree with yahoody that you have probably paid a premium since it is a Cowboy model and not a CC premium revolver. I think the Cowboy falls between the standard Rodeo and the Premium Single Action CC revolver as far as price.
You have been offered an inspection period and if everything looks good I would simply accept it and enjoy shooting it. I have a USFA that the bolt drops ever so slightly early and has left a little ding at the beginning of the locking notch ramp and other than that the firearm functions flawlessly and locks up as tight as Fort Knox. It is one of my favorite shooters. I would one day like to find someone who could slightly adjust the timing so the bolt would drop slightly later but until then I will enjoy shooting it.
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I think his (my) assessment of frimath's new-to-him USFA Cowboy sheriff model is a bit overly critical.
We agree on that Buckaroo :) Little cranky this morning prior to coffee.
I edited to be more politically correct :)
Just trying to get folks to look harder at what they are buying. After all I have a few of them to sell! The seller's label of "new" got me looking very closely at this particular gun. Just today I got bit by a gun I didn't inspect as close as I should have. New guns...are either NIB or they aren't. My buyer got caught holding the bag for the moment ......but that is NEVER the way I want a deal to go down. I'm happy to give a full refund in that case...but happier yet to catch the flaws while the gun is still in my office and either fix them or disclose them prior to a sell.
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Thanks for everyone's input. Still waiting for delivery, my dealer has been out on vacation. The "barrel/holster wear" wear I think is actually a reflection from the leather mat used to sit the revolver upon for the photo. The cylinder wear I agree could be from just a couple of turns during examination etc. I wasn't familiar with the model being a "cowboy" vs a rodeo etc. I was familiar with the Rodeo model though................. I thought that the 3" barrel might give it a bump in terms of desirability and collectability , but it surely is more to my liking in terms of a short barrel. The 2 " models seem a little short to my eye. I'll see if I can negotiate something better upon review. I truly appreciate the verification of it being a US gun that makes me feel much better.
When I first starting getting interested in it I considered sending it to Turnbull to CC it, then thought that since it was already a Turnbull blued gun that it would somehow affect the "value" of it.................. I truly do prefer the CC finish ............... just sayin, but the prices folks are asking for these things is truly surprising!
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My only SAA is a USFA "Custer Battlefield" with a factory faux antique finish. I would have rather had an "Ainsworth", which is essentially the same gun except it has a blue/CCH finish. But after handling and shooting the "Custer", the action is so smooth and crisp, I soon forgot all about the finish.
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frimath,
This is my only USAF sheriff's model I have. I was lucky enough to find it at a gun show where I live right as USFA was shutting down. I knew they were shutting down and to buy it then would not only be a bargain but an opportunity that I would probably never see again. I jumped on it and was thankful I found it. It has a 3 1/2" barrel, early BP frame, is Armory blue, CC, and has factory original stag stocks, 100% USA parts, and is NIB. Since I have other USAF's to shoot thus far it is a safe queen and will probably remain so.
Sorry it isn't a very good photo. I cropped it from a larger photo.
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Dang that is a pretty one!
(http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=59854.0;attach=59888;image)
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OMG! That cc AND Stag gripped sheriff model is sensational!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Here are a better photo.
(http://i.imgur.com/nMxHzKb.jpg)
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Really nice.
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I think this little baby looks spectacular...........love the CC and the stag grips as well! beautiful little gem right there!!
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nice photo and an outstanding gun :o
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I received a new one today. Cowboy model I think.
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Joel6180, I believe all Cowboy models were all dome blue and not CC. I believe you have the Premium Single Action with the CC hammer upgrade and it looks to be a USA parts gun.
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Joel6180, I believe all Cowboy models were all dome blue and not CC. I believe you have the Premium Single Action and it looks to be a USA parts gun.
Old Buckaroo Lou nailed that one. Love those 38s. And you have one of the best SAA made USFA! Congrads!
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Here are a few more images for further discussion.
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I can only do 2 at a time. I had to dig into this one right after the images were made. It was spinning free at the second notch, sure enough, the hand spring was broken. The lock notches on the cylinder indicate it may have been a problem for a few shooting sessions. This gun was fired a lot more than the finish shows - the blue is worn on the upper left trigger guard, like a lefty was shooting it.
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By my records (which are pretty good I think) the Cowboy's started @ serial #CB500 and as Lou said were all dome blue guns..no case colors.. So one of several things happened to yours, it was either a special order CB gun that was blued and cased, or it was sent back to the factory and blue and cased by USFA while they were in business or someone had it blue and cased later in the after market. Either way nice gun. Certainly worth every penny of the original Premium grade guns by the look of it.
FWIW I have 3 Rodeo serial number guns that were redone by Turnbull with similar results.
Who ever did your color case di an awesome job!
Is that paint of a gold bar insert on the front sight?
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I think it is paint - I didn't look at that end of the gun close yet - but it is red. The antler grips must have been holding some moisture, as the grip frame had some light rust. I did not know if there was going to be a box until the gun showed up - GB seller wasn't much on answering questions before the auction ended. Anyway, there was no box, so no end label to study for original features.
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Hopefully you bought it as a shooter. As time goes by I suspect a lot of Cowboys and Rodeos will get refinshed to an up graded model and the boxes will have disappeared or "lost" the end labels.
No big deal I you aren't buying boxes. The Rodeo was built at the same quality as the Premium guns. The Cowboy was as well and a higher level of final polish applied prior to blueing. So easier to up grade the Cowboy than even the Rodeo. And the Rodeo is easy enough. Couple of bright nickel Rodeos floating around the forums done by Nutmeg that look spectacular. Your gun does as well!
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Yes, this one will be a shooter. The last China Camp I bought is a shooter as well. The China Camp is in Arizona right now being worked on. Recoil plate and bolt needed replacing, and the fellow will tune it up properly as well. I sold a few of the nice USFA pistols that came into my hands, but now I wish I had kept a few of them.
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China Camp guns are likely the most under rated USFA made guns. All Uberti parts gun (but a very few) but all serious shooters.
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So ....... was advised my "new" Sheriff's Model just landed and its a beauty. Will post photos when I take possession ! Happy it arrived safe and sound! ;D
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Looking forward to the photos, frimath.
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Yes sir, being a USFA fan I always like seeing photos of them. Please provide us one when you can.
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Still awaiting purchase approval..........ugh :-\
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That's crazy. Why so long?
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I agree with Buckaroo Lou. Where do you hail from (I'm guessing Australia)?
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So....................STILL waiting for an authorization to purchase on my Sheriff's Model .............still don't have it in my hands yet. :'(