Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The American Plainsmen Society => Topic started by: Niederlander on December 09, 2016, 07:26:44 PM
-
Gentlemen, I've never really seen this addressed. What was available for a winter coat in say, 1855? I'm trying to find something that looks at least a little bit period correct that I can shoot in.
-
This is my winter coat, and yes I can shoot both rifle and pistol while wearing it. Not competition type but it's 13 pounds of warmth.
(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab91/JKilts/all%20485_zpsfd5kjqws.jpg) (http://s853.photobucket.com/user/JKilts/media/all%20485_zpsfd5kjqws.jpg.html)
-
The CAPOTE made from a couple of blankets might still be worn. It was a staple of the furtrade. Military topcoats or overcoats would have been common IMHO. Here is a wiki-hit for you to ponder; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overcoat
P.S; A Capote pattern; http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/winter/gear/capote.htm
Kent; Nice coat. Shoot it yourself?
-
Yep, with a Sharps.
-
I would guess the average man out there wore some sort of wool coat, but would it have been a capote or a mackinaw of some kind?
Nice buffalo coat, by the way!
-
From what I'm seeing online, the pea coat and duffel coats would have been in use by that time. I could see them, especially the pea coat, making their way west by our period.
-
Check and see what went down on the Arabia. It was headed upstream in 1858 if my memory serves. The Arabia museum in KC is a must see for anyone interested in our time period. And while you are in the KC area check out the museum at Fort Leavenworth.
-
Good idea! I've been to the museum, but I wasn't specifically looking for coats at the time. I'll try sending them an e-mail.
-
At DeSoto Bend wild life resurve there is the Bertum steam boat display as well. That's just across the river in Iowa. Don't remember the date but a lot of stuff in remarkable condition.
-
Needs for warm outer clothing have been around for a very long time. (The "Arabia" is a very good place to start for this time period.)
They may run from fur (inside or out), leather to fleece, wool, linen and cotton, or any combinations thereof.
They maybe long and flowing like a cape, or like an overcoat of some sort. Or short wasted like a jacket and or anywhere in between.
The "P" jacket style is not a bad place to start.
Do a web search for what it is you want and like. Keep in mind the time period you want during your search.
I hope this helps.
My best,
Blair
-
I'm leaning towards the pea coat right now, as (supposedly) the design hasn't changed much at all since at least 1800. It's a really practical design, and all of my historical personas have at least a vague nautical background. Works for me!
-
Wish I would have bought a dozen of these in 2005 before Barry and Stevens went under. $6.95
-
Delmonico, what coat is that? looks pretty nice.
-
Here is a history of the peacoat, with various theories for the origin of the name. It doesn't mention the theory I have been told, that it meant a small or "petite coat", as opposed to a large or "great coat".
https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/peacoat-guide-history-sizing-buy/
P.S; I found another interesting google-hit. The Art of Manliness has a guide to current topcoats,. Most of them have histories going back to your period.
http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/12/11/mans-guide-overcoats/
-
Delmonico, what coat is that? looks pretty nice.
Was sold at Barry and Stevens before they went under, sold "college clothes but had these for $6.99, wish I'd of bought a dozen,
-
If this works there is a picture of a Capote I made a few years ago. It was made from one Pendleton blanket and a pattern I found online.
Lucky
(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l361/decapper/Luckyscoat-1.jpg)
-
Most capotes I've seen sag and bag after a while and are extremely unflattering on most people, especially those packing some extra poundage. Not particularly warm, either.
I bought an ex-USN pea jacket years ago and it suits very well. Also a heavy wool top coat that actually over laps my medium size frame! I keep it closed with a wide leather belt.
-
I found a Swill Army coat at a thrift store for about $ 5. I switched out the buttons for pewter ones. (I've got more money in the buttons than the coat.)
Books
-
I joined the USN in 1969 and got the standard issue Pea Coat for that time period.
It was well made, but I found it to be rather heavy overall for the warmth it should have offered by itself, or with the normal uniform regulations to be warn underneath.
The "watch cap'' was fine while aboard ship during a watch, but not approved for Liberty. I hated it along with the wool jersey/jumper/sweater. The wool was quite coarse and very itchy if in contact with the skin.
My reason for posting this info, is that if you do not wear good layers of clothing underneath such coats/jackets, the cold can get through to you.
My best,
Blair
-
Yep! I spent two years of my Army life stationed at Churchill, Manitoba, on the shores of Hudson's Bay.
We had the best arctic clothing in the world at the time, starting with a heavy mesh undershirt and multiple layers, felt lined mukluks, wind pants and a pretty skookum parka with a tunnel hood.
Still, we were told that if we were unable to move due to injury or enemy action, we had 45 minutes of life remaining.
One of my fellow linemen had a tripod of telephone poles collapse under his weight and crashed on top of a pole, fracturing his femur.
I took off my parka and put it under him then trudged back to the truck to flag down a vehicle with a radio, another lineman staying with him. We alternated every 15 on the clock.
It took almost an hour to get help by radio and the injured man was now incoherent, convulsing with the cold and shock, in the advance stages of hypothermia.
-
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Accoutrements/100_1452_zpsrnieux9q.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/Accoutrements/100_1452_zpsrnieux9q.jpg.html)
We don't shoot "Cowboy" here in the winter. The reasons will be obvious viewing the above image. But we do shoot our muzzle loaders all year long. I wear wool in winter. My capote has a triple thick cape on my shoulders, and it keeps me warm and dry in the snow. We do not shoot if the temperature drops below about - 15 C. At my ripe age, my hands can't take the cold like they used to.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Accoutrements/100_1456_zps9xgktbml.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/Accoutrements/100_1456_zps9xgktbml.jpg.html)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/Accoutrements/100_1461_zpsibmvowjk.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/Accoutrements/100_1461_zpsibmvowjk.jpg.html)
-
This is my winter coat, and yes I can shoot both rifle and pistol while wearing it. Not competition type but it's 13 pounds of warmth.
(http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab91/JKilts/all%20485_zpsfd5kjqws.jpg) (http://s853.photobucket.com/user/JKilts/media/all%20485_zpsfd5kjqws.jpg.html)
Kent...if that coat was red with a white collar, you'd not only be period correct but seasonally correct as well! You could pass for Ole St. Nick!
-
Hey Gabe - where's yer snowshoes?
Ever have one of those "Why didn't I ...." moments that haunts you forever? At a gun show, a guy was selling an 'as new/unissued' buffalo coat with a Winnipeg police force label. Fit me perfectly. The reason it was unissued was that it was in size small - not many cops that size.
I balked, changed my mind and by the time I returned, the coat was gone!
I'm sure many of you could tell similar stories of 'the one that got away'.
-
Good Troy, Are you saying I'm fat? ;D I've had little kids take me for Santa from time to time, I play along of coarse! Ho Ho
-
Good Troy, Are you saying I'm fat?
NOT at all! I forgot to point out that distinction. The similarity is the beard, hair, brow and jovial expression. :D
-
Howdy
I purchased a wool coat from Sportsman's guide that was cheap and very warm . Sorry my rifle is from a different period .
-
Buffalo Robes are well documented to the period of 1855. There are a number of clothiers who make wool overcoats in addition to the capote patterns that are relatively inexpensive (Couple of hundred for a good Hudson Bay blanket and pattern.)
It you want to go a little cooler, layer yourself in a good frock or sack, vest and flannel shirt. There are some relatively inexpensive costume-grade clothing makers and then there are those who add the extra TLC for a little more but its typically worth it.
One of my favorite things to do is wear common period clothing items that look farby but are spot on authentic. Wear a knit stocking cap or Balaclava on your head with a period pullover under your coat. There are period repros out there and originals to back them up. Welcome to the club. I think you'll have a lot of fun here.
-Dave
-
Howdy
I purchased a wool coat from Sportsman's guide that was cheap and very warm . Sorry my rifle is from a different period .
"Sorry ..."? You sound like a Canadian! We're everlastingly sorry for any and everything - even the weather. The rest of the world says - "Pardonnez-moi", "Entshuligentsie(?)", "Excuse me", but a Canadian is "Sorry".
One of the ways to pick a Canuck out of the herd.
-
Howdy
I've been called lots of things BUT never a Canadian .
-
Take it as a compliment. Means you're polite.
-
Bertrand Cargo...."Seven different styles of mens coats"
Excavated artifacts
Display of artifacts recovered from the Bertrand.
The cargo found on the excavated Bertrand provides a unique glimpse into the material life of Virginia City, Montana Territory. The steamboat was full of clothing, tools, food and various consumer items on their way upriver. The ship’s cargo amounted to roughly 283 cubic meters. The collection includes: dried and salted beef, mutton and pork; oysters; pepper sauce; strawberries, peaches and peanuts; mustard from France; many bottles of whiskey including bourbon; brandy and brandied cherries; and medicine bottles. There were over 3,000 textiles and clothing items, including gloves, hats, trousers and 137 men’s coats in seven different styles. Household goods included mirrors, clocks and silverware; and there were various building supplies for the growing town. The largest consignment of the goods was bound for the Vivian and Simpson retailer in Virginia City. They would have also been sold from log cabin stores in the surrounding towns, including that of Frank Worden, the founder of Missoula.
Many of the goods were beyond the expectations for a primitive mining town. The ship also carried everything necessary to mine the Montana claim, including blasting powder, pickaxes and shovels. All the goods were fully insured, and the insurance company ultimately reimbursed the merchants for their losses. The men and women on the frontier were not totally isolated from the rest of the country and its consumption and fashion habits, but appear to have been relatively integrated and informed. The artifacts from the Bertrand represent the evidence of what kinds of goods flowed from St. Louis to the Montana territory during this important period of American state formation. More generally, water travel and the development of the steamboat played a major role in the settlement and development of America.
In 1974, samples of canned food from the wreck, including brandied peaches, oysters, plum tomatoes, honey, and mixed vegetable, were tested by the National Food Processors Association. Although their appearance, smell and vitamin content had deteriorated, there was no trace of microbial growth and the food was determined to be still safe to eat.[6]
-
Good find! I just sent them an e-mail.
-
Howdy
I've been called lots of things BUT never a Canadian .
Take it as a compliment. Means you're polite.
Rowdy is a lot of things but at his core he is a Southern Gentleman.
Books
-
howdy
thanks for the kind words . Wish everyone a merry Christmas . Maybe Santa will bring you that period coat your after .
-
Heard back from the Bertrand director today. He said he'll try to get me photos of the seven different styles of coat after the first of the year. Should be good info!
-
Please share when you get them! I was looking at the De Soto Refuge site and did not find any.
-
I plan on it! I always like it when people share the information they've found. I'm looking forward to seeing what they have!
-
Don't forget to make them an offer for some of those TASTY canned goods. 8) ;D
Coffinmaker
-
Tempting...........but no! I'll pass on the hundred sixty year old canned goods!
-
Canned goods? Ya mean "airtights"?
;)