Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => 1911 & Wild Bunch Shooting => Topic started by: FordTrax on July 04, 2015, 12:57:54 PM
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I have a question for the wild bunch folks. I was talking to some guys from the local club and asking if a Sig GSR 1911 would be legal for Wildbunch - I read the SASS Wildbunch rules and thought it would probably be okay for the Modern category.
Several folks did not think it would be because it had a rail - however, when I read the rules they indicate the dust cover rail is legal. Hoowever, there is little wildbunch shot around my area so I thought I would get a better opinion here. Does anyone or did anyone shoot Wildbunch with a Sig GSR? Is it legal in the Modern category?
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There have been several discussions of the Sig and S&W pistols being used in WBAS on the WBAS Wire. The conclusion has been that external extractors are legal for use in WBAS, and the Sig, in particular, IS legal. (But, of course, many of us view it as disrespectful of John Browning -- just sayin')
However, please note the weight limit for modern guns is 42 ounces with empty magazine inserted. Sig-Sauer specifies the weight of that pistol as 41.6 ounces with a standard dust cover. The rail might put it over the weight limit. You can figure that out for yourself if your wife still lets you use the kitchen scale.
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I would worry about the weight also. I think it would be very close. I have never weighed one so I'm just speculating. I think the sig 1911's are some of the best production pistols produced today. I friend of mine has one that if I'm remembering correctly has no light rail dust cover and will clover leaf at 20 yards. Also I think the rules specify all steel so no aluminum either. No fiber optic sight in modern. Also have to use flat base mags. Dusty Boddams
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Thanks for the response - I did not see why it would not be legal based on my reading of the rules. I thought and still think that that GSR was one of the best looking guns made - always wanted one (and a Delta Elite too). I sort of have a thing for those Sigs - I see them I like them and that GSR was just the sportiest looking thing. At the time I thought it a bit pricey though. Now I can tell my wife that I need a CAS legal 1911 and the Sig GSRs are a good deal used they are about $500 less than new! As far as weight I though I looked that up a while back and thought it was okay - I am a low level competitor at local stuff no big matches anyway. Hey but with a GSR I will sure be styling!
BTW: Have a lot of respect for JM Browning - he was great designer. My wife actually bought me a book about him a few years back. However, there are materials and design/production capabilities today that he could never have dreamed of at dawn of the 20th century. IMHO the 1911 was/is a great design that has been improved - certainly no slight to JM if anything a compliment that folks still respect the basic design enough to improve it. Not many gun designs can make that claim - just gone by the wayside!
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I thought the idea was to recreate the Mexican Revolution by using the guns of the era. Strictly speaking, that ought to be the basic 1911, not even the A1.
I know this sounds picky, but it really galls me how the original concept seems to get lost. I've been in this game since the answer to "equipment eligibility" was - "If John Wayne would use it, it's OK." That was the era of one pistol, and it was usually a .45 or .44. The Rule Book was nice a little booklet you could put in a shirt pocket.
It would make more sense to me if there was an "Outlaw" class admitting ANY service handgun of the era to include the pre-WWI autos and DA revolvers. It's likely that most, if not all of them saw use in the Mexican Revolution.
Just another point of view from the other side of the corral.
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Also I think the rules specify all steel so no aluminum either. No fiber optic sight in modern. Also have to use flat base mags. Dusty Boddams
That's right. A shooter was MDQed at National Championship this year for using an aluminum framed pistol.
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I believe it has a forged steel frame - but I will confirm that for 100% certain. Weight is 39oz. per an article I read on the web a while back so it meets the 42 oz. weight requirement.
August, I do see where you are coming from and I respect your point. I would agree that down there it was probably a use what you had situation.
I appreciate the responses - thank you.
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being as how the discipline is based on the movie... the Star Model B should be legal :)
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Yep, and there were a couple of other aberrations as well, one of them the use of a M1919 Browning MG and not a Maxim.
But - 'The Spirit of the Game' would seem to indicate that we overlook these glitches as we suspend belief in many things in the movies we love.
What was authentic about the guns packed by Eastwood in the "Outlaw Josey Wales" ands other Spaghetti westerns?
Having made my point, my WB 1911 is a box stock, blued Remington RI. It came with a great trigger out of the box along with bevelled mag well, lowered/dimpled ejection port and hi-viz sights. Hardly a GI model, but it's the only 1911 I own that isn't set up for IPSC with all bells, gongs and whistles.
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While lots of hardware was used as far as a level playing field goes for a shooting competition wild bunch has the most level playing field of any gun game I have ever played. I also like the power factor etc. and limited category. Dusty
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Lets hope that Wild Bunch continues to be a 'pure' discipline. The virtue of the 1911 is that it requires a certain level of power to function.
My wife and I are shooting our IPSC loads - hers a 200 gr SWC and mine a 230 RN. We don't see the point in having separate WB loads.
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That's right. A shooter was MDQed at National Championship this year for using an aluminum framed pistol.
I can not find any rule that prohibits a pistol with an aluminum frame. I was on the posse with a shooter who was using an aluminum framed 1911 at Winter Range 2015. (National Championship) When the pistols were weighed the question came up and he was NOT awarded a MDQ.
Another shooter on another posse might have been DQ's for a "lightweight pistol" but I can assure you that one WAS NOT. I can also assure you that I can find nothing in the rules that would prohibit a shooter from competing with an aluminum framed pistol.
Blackfoot
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It's not very hard to find. In the rule book in all caps it says 1911 PISTOL REQUIRMENTS. And the first sentence says a full sized single stack STEEL frame 1911 style semi-auto pistol in the 45acp caliber is required. It's also taught to WB R.O. Dusty
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Another requirement in 'Traditional' is "... no light rails ...". They are allowed in 'Modern'.
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It's not very hard to find. In the rule book in all caps it says 1911 PISTOL REQUIRMENTS. And the first sentence says a full sized single stack STEEL frame 1911 style semi-auto pistol in the 45acp caliber is required. It's also taught to WB R.O. Dusty
Thank you,
Blackfoot :-[