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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Winchester Model 1876 => Topic started by: Grizzly Adams on May 09, 2014, 06:24:29 pm



Title: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: Grizzly Adams on May 09, 2014, 06:24:29 pm
At the suggestion of Postman63, I am setting stickies for load data.  If you have pet loads for the 50/95 WCF, please share them here.  As always, use caution when posting and when using data posted on this and any other forum.  :)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on May 10, 2014, 08:44:08 pm
Great idea Grizz.  The best load for my .50-95 Uberti is:

Ten-X brass
Winchester large rifle primers
78.0 gr of Swiss 2F poured through drop tube, .030" card wad, then compressed to .370" below case mouth (about .150" compression).
after compression, 2 newspaper wads added on top of the card wad.
Rapine 350 bullet, 20:1, sized .515", lubed wiuth SPG.
Bullet seated .365" into case, O/A cartridge length: 2.255"

This load shoots about as good as I can see:

(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/Swiss2F_zps5abf7115.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/Swiss2F_zps5abf7115.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on August 24, 2014, 01:51:08 pm
So am I the only one on the forum who reloads the .50-95? Or are the rest of ya'll just keeping your loads under your hat?


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: Bittertrigger on August 24, 2014, 05:22:06 pm
No sir
 I acquired a Chaparral 76 in 50-95 not to long ago
After getting all burrs knocked down and the action all smooth out
A Marble tang sight has been mounted
Barrel has been slugged at 510
Bullets cast and a number of rounds both with TB and BP loaded
I am ready to test her out
Just need the family and work to leave me alone long enough to get to the range
As soon as I do I will post my results


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: MJN77 on August 24, 2014, 09:25:29 pm
Quote
Just need the family and work to leave me alone long enough to get to the range

Good Lord, I know what that's like. I traded for a Uberti 50-95 a few months ago and have barely had time to shoot it. I do have 79 rounds of full case BP ammo with 300 grain 312 bullets loaded for it. One of these days, I'll get to see how she shoots.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: hatman on July 05, 2015, 03:45:21 pm
Howdy guys,

I have had no luck shooting Buffalo Arms-made 300gr and 350gr rounds through my Uberti 76 28" rifle (purchased new is 2012).
They can't even consistently hit paper on a 17" target at 50 yards.
I now have a new friend at the range who is a very experienced long-time reloader who believes the BA bullets must be undersized.
He's willing to reload for me if I get the dies and bullet mold.
As for the bullet mold he's recommending a Lee mold (.515) 450gr so here's my question:

In all my research I haven't seen anyone mention more than 350gr so is there anything wrong shooting 450gr?
My friend assures me there's no issue,  but I'd like a second or third opinion.
Thanks.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: mtmarfield on July 05, 2015, 10:58:56 pm
   Greetings!

   According to an Ideal Reloading Manual, (1890's) reprint, Wolfe Publishing 1991, the rearmost Mould List shows, "512138.(450gr.)
This bullet was first made by our Mr. Barlow for a heavier ball for the .50-95 Winchester. It was afterwards adopted as the standard bullet for the .50-110-450 (.50-100-450, actually) Winchester." (I'm assuming that this is the Mould being used.)
   I believe that A.C.Gould MAY have designed this bullet, and had the Ideal Co. cut the Mould for him, but those books are packed, and can't verify. My immediate assumption was that the bullet was designed for the Winchester Single-Shot (Hi-Wall) chambered for the same Ctg. My belief was that this longer bullet, if seated into the case SO AS TO CYCLE PROPERLY IN THE WIN. 1876, the bottom most lubricated grooves might protrude past the neck, into the powder, and cause powder contamination, or aggravate barrel fouling, whereas in the "Hi-Wall", one MIGHT be able to seat the bullet out enough to eliminate the possibility. I currently don't have an Ideal/Lyman #512138, so that I can't check this myself. Please do post with details, and let us know how this loading works for you, as I have wondered myself! If your friend has a different Mould, please post the Manufacturer/Number!

         Be Well!

                   M.T.Marfield
                      7-05-15


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: hatman on July 05, 2015, 11:36:11 pm
   Greetings!

   According to an Ideal Reloading Manual, (1890's) reprint, Wolfe Publishing 1991, the rearmost Mould List shows, "512138.(450gr.)
This bullet was first made by our Mr. Barlow for a heavier ball for the .50-95 Winchester. It was afterwards adopted as the standard bullet for the .50-110-450 (.50-100-450, actually) Winchester." (I'm assuming that this is the Mould being used.)
   I believe that A.C.Gould MAY have designed this bullet, and had the Ideal Co. cut the Mould for him, but those books are packed, and can't verify. My immediate assumption was that the bullet was designed for the Winchester Single-Shot (Hi-Wall) chambered for the same Ctg. My belief was that this longer bullet, if seated into the case SO AS TO CYCLE PROPERLY IN THE WIN. 1876, the bottom most lubricated grooves might protrude past the neck, into the powder, and cause powder contamination, or aggravate barrel fouling, whereas in the "Hi-Wall", one MIGHT be able to seat the bullet out enough to eliminate the possibility. I currently don't have an Ideal/Lyman #512138, so that I can't check this myself. Please do post with details, and let us know how this loading works for you, as I have wondered myself! If your friend has a different Mould, please post the Manufacturer/Number!

         Be Well!

                   M.T.Marfield
                      7-05-15


Thanks M.T.
I will be sharing the words in your post with him.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on July 06, 2015, 12:13:50 pm
Hatman _ I hate to bust your bubble but I don't think that Lee 450gr bullet will work well in a '76.  That is a fine bullet for the .50-70, I use it myself.  But the 50-95 is an express round with a rate of twist designed for the lighter 300-375gr bullets.  That 450 bullet is not likely to stabilize in a '76.  Plus its extra length will reduce powder capacity and could cause overall length issues. Your new friend may be an experienced reloader, but if he does not have real first hand experience with a '76, he may be leading you down the wrong trail.  I recommend you slug your bore first and find out the groove size. Then look for bullets under 375gr that are around .001" over groove size.  Use the search function to search this forum for .50-95 loads and experience from others who have been there.  These rifles are capable of good accuracy, but you have to feed them a proper diet.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: Waddie Bill on July 06, 2015, 12:46:39 pm
 
  See my posting of 1/26/15 under the Topic "Uberti Short Rifle" (1/24/15)

  My loads are listed there.

  Waddie Bill


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: hatman on July 06, 2015, 07:25:28 pm
Hatman _ I hate to bust your bubble but I don't think that Lee 450gr bullet will work well in a '76.  That is a fine bullet for the .50-70, I use it myself.  But the 50-95 is an express round with a rate of twist designed for the lighter 300-375gr bullets.  That 450 bullet is not likely to stabilize in a '76.  Plus its extra length will reduce powder capacity and could cause overall length issues. Your new friend may be an experienced reloader, but if he does not have real first hand experience with a '76, he may be leading you down the wrong trail.  I recommend you slug your bore first and find out the groove size. Then look for bullets under 375gr that are around .001" over groove size.  Use the search function to search this forum for .50-95 loads and experience from others who have been there.  These rifles are capable of good accuracy, but you have to feed them a proper diet.

Thank you sir.
I sent your post to him and just got off the phone.  We'll be going with the smaller size (300 or 350 most likely).

I had a feeling this might be the case so I really appreciate your input confirming my concern.

Compared to you guys, I'm relatively new to all this and a total amateur.  I've made a few mistakes along the way with a doozie being that I purchased 600 rounds of the BA ammo before I even shot the gun.  :(  Oh well, at least I have a lot of brass my friend can reload.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: hatman on July 06, 2015, 07:27:02 pm

  See my posting of 1/26/15 under the Topic "Uberti Short Rifle" (1/24/15)

  My loads are listed there.

  Waddie Bill

Thanks Bill.
I forwarded your info as well.  Very much appreciated.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on July 06, 2015, 08:23:35 pm
Hatman - a lot of folks have had very good luck with that Lee 515-450 mold by machining the base to remove the last groove. This brings the weight down to about 350gr. It's popular with the Spencer shooters (I'm one of those guys too). In fact most of the bullets that work well for the 56-50 Spencer will be good for the. 50-95 too. You might want to peruse the Spencer forum for bullet suggestions. The Lyman 515139 is a popular choice also.

I also suspect that the BA ammunition has undersized bullets for your rifle. Do you know your groove size? My uberti is. 513" but they can vary a bit.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: hatman on July 06, 2015, 11:37:39 pm
Hatman - a lot of folks have had very good luck with that Lee 515-450 mold by machining the base to remove the last groove. This brings the weight down to about 350gr. It's popular with the Spencer shooters (I'm one of those guys too). In fact most of the bullets that work well for the 56-50 Spencer will be good for the. 50-95 too. You might want to peruse the Spencer forum for bullet suggestions. The Lyman 515139 is a popular choice also.

I also suspect that the BA ammunition has undersized bullets for your rifle. Do you know your groove size? My uberti is. 513" but they can vary a bit.

I don't know if my friend has the equipment to remove that base.  (Keep in mind I'm a total moron regarding reloading).

I don't know the groove size but my friend said we could slug the bore although he did seem to poo poo the need to do so.
Is there a reason to think that my 2012 '76 is other than .513 as is yours or varies enough to require more than a .515 mould?

I really appreciate your wisdom.  I would like this '76 to be a good shooter, but I have to admit sometimes I just pull it out of the safe, stare at it, and smile.  :)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on July 07, 2015, 05:22:46 am
Unfortunately, groove size varies more than you'd expect. Yours may be. 513" but it could vary a couple thousandths. It only takes a few minutes to slug the bore. Then you know exactly what you are working with. Conventional wisdom is that your bullet diameter should be . 001" - .002" larger than groove size. What is the advertised diameter of the BA ammunition you have?

There has been a number of good discussions on this subject on the Cast Boolits forum, Leverguns sub-forum too. One thing I've picked up is that the original factory loadings changed over the years. At one point they went from using 2F to 3F black powder. This seems contrary to conventional wisdom. But as mentioned, this is an express cartridge. 3F gives higher velocities, but at a slightly higher pressure. The '76 is plenty strong to handle it. Some fellows report excellent accuracy with 3F. I loaded some up, but haven't been to the range to try it yet.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: hatman on July 07, 2015, 01:27:58 pm
Unfortunately, groove size varies more than you'd expect. Yours may be. 513" but it could vary a couple thousandths. It only takes a few minutes to slug the bore. Then you know exactly what you are working with. Conventional wisdom is that your bullet diameter should be . 001" - .002" larger than groove size. What is the advertised diameter of the BA ammunition you have?

There has been a number of good discussions on this subject on the Cast Boolits forum, Leverguns sub-forum too. One thing I've picked up is that the original factory loadings changed over the years. At one point they went from using 2F to 3F black powder. This seems contrary to conventional wisdom. But as mentioned, this is an express cartridge. 3F gives higher velocities, but at a slightly higher pressure. The '76 is plenty strong to handle it. Some fellows report excellent accuracy with 3F. I loaded some up, but haven't been to the range to try it yet.

IIRC, the BA ammo was .510 (or maybe .511).

Sounds like the prudent thing to do is slug the bore, do some more research and then select the appropriate tools.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on July 07, 2015, 04:18:04 pm
Yep, now you are on the right track.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: larryo_1 on July 07, 2015, 08:36:54 pm
Hatman:

I probably sound like a broken record but one place to look for answers is where I got two custom molds out of.  They are "Hoch" custom molds.  One for my 40-82 and the other for my 45-75.  Both cast in the shape and weight you would specify.  They are a bit spendy but i am and have been total satisfied with the ones I got.  So, if you would be interested, let me know and I can send the address and other stuff.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: hatman on July 08, 2015, 10:49:00 am
Hatman:

I probably sound like a broken record but one place to look for answers is where I got two custom molds out of.  They are "Hoch" custom molds.  One for my 40-82 and the other for my 45-75.  Both cast in the shape and weight you would specify.  They are a bit spendy but i am and have been total satisfied with the ones I got.  So, if you would be interested, let me know and I can send the address and other stuff.

Sure, thanks Larry.
I'm not one to turn down wisdom and experience from others.  :)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: hatman on July 23, 2015, 06:14:10 pm
OK, we slugged the bore and it came out .513 and all the ammo I bought was .509. 
So we now have a 340gr .51539 mould and the 450gr mould which one of the guys at the range can reduce down to 350.

My reloading buddy is now asking for recommendations for smokeless powder.
Would appreciate some wisdom/experience.
Thanks.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on July 23, 2015, 07:10:02 pm
I shoot mostly black or subs. But I asked the Accurate ballistician about 5744 loads. For the lyman 515139 he recommended a low of 26.5gr for 1200-1300 fps to a mid-level of 35gr for 1450-1550fps. Being conservative I tried 27gr under the lyman and found it pleasant to shoot and quite accurate. But I only tried that one load. I really prefer black powder.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: hatman on July 24, 2015, 09:50:49 pm
I shoot mostly black or subs. But I asked the Accurate ballistician about 5744 loads. For the lyman 515139 he recommended a low of 26.5gr for 1200-1300 fps to a mid-level of 35gr for 1450-1550fps. Being conservative I tried 27gr under the lyman and found it pleasant to shoot and quite accurate. But I only tried that one load. I really prefer black powder.

Thank you nd.
Today was a very successful day.
I was able to procure some 5744 and we (and by we I mean my friend while I watched) loaded 5 rounds of 27gr of 5744 under 35gr of Cream of Wheat with the 350gr Lyman.
The groups dropped from 4 ft (with BA loads) at 50 yards to 4 inches.   :)




Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on July 25, 2015, 06:27:16 am
That's great! I think the bullet diameter made all the difference. I would caution against using fillers with 5744. I've read that Accurate says they are not needed and can raise pressures. Do a Google search on this for more info. I don't use them in my 5744 load and it shoots fine without it.

Now that you have a bullet that works, get some real black powder or pyrodex and have some real fun!


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: hatman on July 25, 2015, 01:26:32 pm
OK thanks.
I've passed this info on to my friend along with some google-search links.

As for BP, I'll probably do that eventually.
I recently bought a Uberti Walker and am having great fun making smoke with that one.  :)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: hatman on July 29, 2015, 05:38:05 pm
Update:
Today we tried 5 rounds same 27gr of 5744 but no filler.
Worked great and got a 2 1/4 by 2 inch group at 50 yards.  Yay!
My friend will be loading up some more and wring it out to 100 yards next week.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on July 29, 2015, 07:43:06 pm
Update:
Today we tried 5 rounds same 27gr of 5744 but no filler.
Worked great and got a 2 1/4 by 2 inch group at 50 yards.  Yay!
My friend will be loading up some more and wring it out to 100 yards next week.

That'll make a heck of a varmint rifle!


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: hatman on July 30, 2015, 12:34:43 am
That'll make a heck of a varmint rifle!

 ;)
Thanks for your insight and experience to get us to this point.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on August 02, 2015, 07:02:10 pm
I have an Uberti 50/95 on order so all this reloading info is great. Thanks for posting it. I am wondering about converting brass for this caliber as 3 bucks a peice for the preformed stuff is a bit rich. I have read that you can start out with 348 Winchester, 50 Alaskan, or 50/90 sharps. Has any one here made up some 50/95? What did you start with and what was your procedure?
  Also been looking at dies online and have noticed that there are dies listed for 50/95 express and for 50/95 Uberti chamber. So this means that Uberti has come up with there own chamber dimensions for the 50/95?


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on August 02, 2015, 08:18:52 pm
Buckheart - Congrats on the new rifle, Yer gonna love it!

I use Jamison. 50-95 brass. Buffalo Arms has it for between $1.94 and $1.53 each depending on the quantity purchased. It's good brass and ready to load. Why bother with trying to make it from something else? I use the Uberti Ch4D dies, they work great. If I recall correctly, the shoulder of the uberti chamber is a little different. But not much.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on August 03, 2015, 06:11:37 am
True - Just a few pennies more for the formed stuff from Buffalo arms.
What dies are you using?


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on August 03, 2015, 08:46:59 am
I use the Uberti .50-95 CH4D dies.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on August 07, 2015, 07:45:35 am
Are those CH4D dies carbide. They are 3 times the price of the RCBS legacy dies. Currently have mostly RCBS stuff and its all good. I know I'm pinching pennies here but the more I save the more I can shoot.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on August 07, 2015, 11:13:00 am
No, not carbide.  Back when I got mine 5 or 6 years ago CH4D was the only game in town.  If the RCBS dies are for the Uberti chamber, I'd buy them.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: hatman on August 07, 2015, 10:43:26 pm
Well today was a very good day.
We again shot AA5744 with no filler and 350 gr 514 lead bullet at 50 yards and got a 2 inch group.
We then took it to 100 yards and got an honest 4X2 1/2" group.
We used 27 gr of AA5744 and also 27gr of the factory-loaded powder (which came in at 33 gr) with similar results.
Given that before this journey i was getting 4 foot groups at 50 yards with BA factory rounds saying I'm very happy would be an understatement.  :)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on August 08, 2015, 06:37:47 am
What do you mean by "factory loaded powder"? Did you pull apart some old production cartridges? Or change the bullets in the BA rounds?

I'm glad to hear that it is shooting well for you. This caliber seems to get a bad reputation for accuracy. It certainly isn't a long range cartridge. But with a little load development it can hold its own within barrel sight range. I added an authentic Riflesmith tang sight to mine. It really helps with my aging eyes.

(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/uberti76-2_zps5013368c.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/uberti76-2_zps5013368c.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on August 08, 2015, 06:45:32 am
Spot on NDN. Here is a reply I got from Buffalo Arms:

 Hello, I would order the RCBS. When Uberti started making those, the chamber dimensions were different so 4D made dies to compensate. Those are only for very early Ubertiís. Thanks

 Dies and brass ordered. Have some 50/90 sharps brass on the way too. The 50/90 will give me something to fiddle with and the stuff from Buffalo Arms will get me shooting quicker.

I am not into casting yet. Any suggestions as to were to get some good cast bullets?


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on August 08, 2015, 07:22:18 am
Nice picture NDN. Got one of the whole rifle?
I have another couple months to wait on the next bunch of 76's to get imported so I hear.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on August 08, 2015, 08:55:59 am
Not sure of a bullet source other than BACO.  They used to sell the Lyman 515139.  There are probably others too.  It sounds like the RCBS dies will be just fine.  Here a another view of my rifle.

(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/Uberti76-1_zpsc0de7031.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/Uberti76-1_zpsc0de7031.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: hatman on August 08, 2015, 01:18:33 pm
What do you mean by "factory loaded powder"? Did you pull apart some old production cartridges? Or change the bullets in the BA rounds?

I'm glad to hear that it is shooting well for you. This caliber seems to get a bad reputation for accuracy. It certainly isn't a long range cartridge. But with a little load development it can hold its own within barrel sight range. I added an authentic Riflesmith tang sight to mine. It really helps with my aging eyes.

(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/uberti76-2_zps5013368c.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/uberti76-2_zps5013368c.jpg.html)

Yes we (I keep saying we, but it's really my friend doing all the work) pulled the bullets off the BA rounds and inspected the powder under magnification and it looked identical to 5744.  So we loaded up 5 test rounds with 27gr of that powder and compared results with the known 5744.  Shot pretty much identical.
We're feeling confident now that we can reclaim the powder so all we have to do is pull the bullets, remold the lead 51539 mould and re-assemble.
FWIW the 300gr and 350gr BA rounds both contain 33gr of powder but with yesterday's results we'll be loading up a bunch more with 27gr and down the road experiment with loads up to 33gr.  
I originally bought 600 rounds from BA so we have plenty of reusable brass, powder, lead and primers.
ETA:  Thanks again for your help in getting my 76 to be a real shooter.

Disclaimer:  Just want to say the above info is working for my rifle and I'm not making any blanket recommendation for others.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on August 09, 2015, 06:42:58 pm
Not sure of a bullet source other than BACO.  They used to sell the Lyman 515139.  There are probably others too.  It sounds like the RCBS dies will be just fine.  Here a another view of my rifle.

(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/Uberti76-1_zpsc0de7031.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/Uberti76-1_zpsc0de7031.jpg.html)

Thanks Ndnchf. Going to look at that picture every so often till I get mine. Just re-watched Crossfire Trail. I might have to get a Schofield too. ;)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on August 21, 2015, 06:17:59 am
Got 50 rounds of brass and dies from Buffalo Arms. Great looking stuff although there is a slight shoulder to it which I don't see in any of the pictures of 50/95. I guess this will fire form to the chamber dimension once I start shooting it.
 Also picked up 50 rounds of 50/90 sharps. I can see that of course you have to trim it to length but am wondering how the difference in base  size will effect things. Will it matter that the 50/90 Sharps brass is .036 bigger than the base dimension of the 50/95? I am figureing that this will effect feeding and ejection. Any one have any experience re-forming cases from the Sharps to the 50/95 Exp.?

Just for knowledge sake here they are.(http://)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on August 21, 2015, 07:26:44 am
That's a pretty big difference in base diameter. I've never used 50-90 brass, so can't comment on how it will work. Are you expecting the. 50-95 sizing die to swage down the base to the proper dimension?


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on August 21, 2015, 08:32:05 am
That's a pretty big difference in base diameter. I've never used 50-90 brass, so can't comment on how it will work. Are you expecting the. 50-95 sizing die to swage down the base to the proper dimension?

Thinking that I might have to turn the base diameter down somehow. Don't have a mill or a metal lathe. Not really sure how exacting I can be with some kind of jury rig in my drill press.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on August 21, 2015, 08:04:07 pm
I've turned down bases on other cartridge conversion projects, but I have a lathe. It would be difficult to do a good job of it without one. In this case, since ready to use Jamison 50-95 brass is available, I don't think it's worth all the effort to try to make it from something else. If for some reason you can't get the jamison brass, I have some extra I can spare.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on August 24, 2015, 05:52:19 am
Thanks Ndnchf for your generous offer. I have some proper Jamison brass but almost 40 years in the trades has made me some one who likes to tinker with things. Making up some properly demensioned brass would be a project that I might be able to pull off.
Went to a gun show this weekend and spoke to one of the regular vendors from New Hampshire who thinks he might have some Bertram brass kicking around some where.

Thanks again for your offer.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on September 03, 2015, 06:42:32 pm
So I got a call yesterday from my local gun store telling me that my 1876 had arrived. Closed up shop early and went to pick it up. It had a cracked stock. Right on the bottom point of the crescent but plate you could see a dent in the metal that sent a crack up both sides of the lower part of the stock following the grain. Very disappointing. Interesting thing about the dent in the but plate that caused the crack was that the dent it self was finished over with blueing. It made me wonder if someone realized the damage and tried to make it passable by applying some touch up blueing.

Also, these guys have bullets from the Lyman 515139 mold mentioned in this thread. They will size them to your preference and apply lube for smokeless or black. Going to get some on order.

http://www.montanabulletworks.com/BB_50_caliber.html


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on September 03, 2015, 08:06:01 pm
Wow - that's a shame. I assume you did not accept it and will get another? If so, you might want to wait on the bullets until you have a rifle in hand and slug the bore. They do vary some. I live about an hour away from Taylors & Co. When I bought mine 5+ years ago, I drove over there and picked mine out from their stock. I hope you get it resolved soon.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on September 04, 2015, 03:24:05 am
No I did not accept it. Hope it doesn't take too long to get a replacement. The order for this one was placed in the beginning of July.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on September 26, 2015, 02:19:50 pm
Well the replacement 50/95 came in yesterday an I'm actually glad I had to wait for a new one. The wood on this one has some real nice figure in the butt stock. The color case colors are not a vivid as some I've seen here which leads me to believe that they may now be using a chemical treatment as opposed to the real deal. It's still pretty though.
Heading to the reloading room to make up some trail boss loads for tomorrow.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on September 26, 2015, 02:55:12 pm
Pictures man pictures! You are teasing us ;D. Glad your patience paid off. Have fun and let us know how it goes.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on September 27, 2015, 06:56:50 pm
(http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg497/buckheart/1876/2PICT7372.jpg) (http://s1240.photobucket.com/user/buckheart/media/1876/2PICT7372.jpg.html)

Put 20 rounds through the new 1876 today. 16grs. of Trail Boss under a .514 350gr. bullet from Buffalo Arms. After a minor adjustment I was able to keep all of my shots on a paper plate at 50 yards. More of a pattern than a group ;D. Of course there was virtually no recoil with these cream puff loads. I need to get some 5744 and take it up a notch. I also see some people use 4198.
The sights leave a bit to be desired, especially the front sight. 60 year old eyes don't get along too well with tiny black front sight blades. I forgot my Merit Aperture sight too. That thing really helps.

here's some pictures. She has some nice figure.

(http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg497/buckheart/1876/1PICT7346.jpg) (http://s1240.photobucket.com/user/buckheart/media/1876/1PICT7346.jpg.html)

(http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg497/buckheart/1876/3PICT7354.jpg) (http://s1240.photobucket.com/user/buckheart/media/1876/3PICT7354.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on September 27, 2015, 07:25:36 pm
That's great looking wood! I added a Riflesmith tang sight to help with my aging eyes. It's an exact reproduction of the original factory tang sight. It works great, really helped my sight picture. I had mine out a couple weeks ago. My load was 78gr by weight of Goex 3F over a Lyman 515139 bullet. It shoots pretty good. But I'll tell ya - it creates it's own thunder and lightening! Every head on the firing line turned to see what it was. A slip on recoil pad is a welcome friend.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: dusty texian on September 28, 2015, 01:35:25 pm
That is a very nice looking rifle there Buckheart! I like that wood. Fill them cases up with some Bp. and feel what that old 50 can really do. ,,,DT


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 03, 2015, 02:40:08 am
Thanks for this thread, guys. Just this morning, the transport truck dropped off my new Uberti .50/95. Along with it, I received 40 rounds of loaded Bu.Arms ammo made from .50/90 brass as well as 200 B.A. 510" and .512" bullets. I did not know of the groove size deal, but no problem. This afternoon, I pulled all of the bullets anyway, dumped the 80gr. of what looks like 2f Swiss or perhaps 2f GOEX Ctg. or Enysford - very shiny hard angular BP grains. I loaded them up with some IMR4895 and IMR4198 soft-ball loads with the .512" bullets. With must the calipers, it appears to have a .512" groove diameter, but perhaps tomorrow I'll slug it properly & find it's .513" or .514".

 One the subject of moulds, I have an old #515141 Lyman mould. Some books call it a 422gr., others 450gr. as with the Lee mould for the same bullet that I also have. I drilled out the nose of the Lyman mould some time ago and installed a plug making it cast a shorter nosed 420gr. bullet in quite soft alloy, perhaps 30:1. This bullet shoots very well indeed in my original .50/70 Sharps 1859 carbine barrel.(on an Italian action I finished) As original at 450gr., it started opening up at 100yards and were keyholing at 200, due probably to the original barrel's 42" twist. since shortening the bullet, they shoot amazingly well, holding 2 1/2" at 100 meters with the original carbine sights- off bags, of course.

The barrel, still marked 1859, was chambered for a long .50/70 case, actually 1.9", under Army contract in 1867. It would have been called a model 1868, I assume.  Good bore, 3 groove.

That's all beside the point, I am now looking forward to shooting some of those bullets. I also have another 60 Jamison cases coming. I also need to start casting & experimenting as I want to use it the end of this month for Whitetails up North.

Thanks again for the thread and suggested loads.

DTS


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: King Medallion on November 03, 2015, 10:12:14 am
And the picture's of the new rifle are where? I can't see them!  ;) Must be waiting to take them with downed deer perhaps?


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: dusty texian on November 03, 2015, 10:20:51 am
Didnt think you would let that slide! KM,,,,,DT


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 03, 2015, 11:46:01 am
I see this over and over. BACO selling undersized and very expensive loaded ammunition with no cautions about slugging these 1876 Ubertis for groove size first. Most of the Uberti 76s I've heard about slug 513"-514". With the slow twist these barrels have, i'd suggest keep bullet weight under 350gr for best performance.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 04, 2015, 11:49:25 pm
I received 40 rounds of loaded ammo with the rifle - apparently unfired.  they were loaded with .509" 300gr. bluff nosed bullets that lacked enough of an ogive to chamber.  I pulled them all and threw them into the junk bin.  I loaded the cases with the .512" 300gr. bluff osed Buffalo Arms Co. bullets I also received. I have not too much hope for them to work but they will serve to Fire Form the shortened .50/90 brass they were loaded in. I slugged the bore and it is .5125" evenly in all grooves. they may or may not shoot well enough.

I went over to bro's and collected a whack of the 434gr. #515141 bullets (WW alloy) I gave him some time ago, to try in his Sharps.  It did not like them, but since they measure .515", I'll try them in my M76 - after I shorten the noses that is - a fairly quick job in the lathe. Might be easier just to cast some new ones in my shortened mould.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 05, 2015, 02:46:43 pm
And the picture's of the new rifle are where? I can't see them!  ;) Must be waiting to take them with downed deer perhaps?

The only picture I have and it's my bro's .45/60. LOL- I haven't figured out how to upload pictures from my camera into my new computer  it is balking and won't download the disk I have, so he'll have to photo it for me, then mail them to me.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DarylS/Sharps%2045%2060/100_3879_zps97367cc5.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DarylS/media/Sharps%2045%2060/100_3879_zps97367cc5.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 05, 2015, 04:50:08 pm
If those 512" diameter bullets aren't too hard, they may work ok in your rifle. Having a 5125" groove size, they should bump up a little, so long as they are loaded with black powder.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 06, 2015, 09:31:30 pm
TKS for the note, ndnchf. I figured they'd probably shoot with BP, but the noses of them are SO short, they won't feed unless I point the muzzle down with the bolt back all the way, to allow the case to fall out from under the extractor, and drop into the chamber - then I can close the bolt. Pain in the posterior I might add.  I am going to cast up some bullets in my shortened Lyman #515141 mould that run 420gr. and might just go ahead and order a 350gr. mould form Buffalo arms, a .515<> I think.  If I make a bump die, smaller commercial bullet diameters might be reclaimable.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 07, 2015, 09:13:10 am
Check out this thread from the Spencer forum. This mold might be just the ticket:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,55140.0.html (http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,55140.0.html)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 08, 2015, 01:17:14 am
That does look like a great bullet and one that will hold enough lube as well.  Thanks for the link to the thread.  Now, to find moose Bullets


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 10, 2015, 05:08:26 pm
Got my Bro to snap a picture and mail it to me. Was over there showing him my new .50/95.
That is his M1876 in .45/60- also a Uberti, which he restocked in some nice walnut.  He also has some sights from Montana Vintage Arms, I think it's called.  That is a LOT of money, just in sights.
The bullet loaded in my case, is a 415gr., shortened #515141 form a Lyman mould.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DarylS/Winchester%20Model%201876%20by%20Uberti/100_5664-1_zpsy0zwps2x.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DarylS/media/Winchester%20Model%201876%20by%20Uberti/100_5664-1_zpsy0zwps2x.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/DarylS/Winchester%20Model%201876%20by%20Uberti/100_5667-1_zpswndg5hhh.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DarylS/media/Winchester%20Model%201876%20by%20Uberti/100_5667-1_zpswndg5hhh.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: King Medallion on November 10, 2015, 06:37:17 pm
Beautiful!


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 10, 2015, 07:27:24 pm
A nice pair! Your friend does nice stock work :)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 10, 2015, 10:06:30 pm
Tks guys - Yes- my brother is recognized by the best of them, as being in the top 8 to 10 of muzzleloading gun makers in the States.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: wymanwinn on November 12, 2015, 04:46:15 pm
Check out this thread from the Spencer forum. This mold might be just the ticket:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,55140.0.html (http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,55140.0.html)

chomping at the bit to get home...my Moose Mould 516375 is in the mail box....

:)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 12, 2015, 05:10:37 pm
chomping at the bit to get home...my Moose Mould 516375 is in the mail box....

:)

Please post some pics and details!


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: wymanwinn on November 12, 2015, 05:37:07 pm
Please post some pics and details!

will do....gonna turn on the pot as soon as i get home and cast some up....!!!!


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: wymanwinn on November 12, 2015, 09:44:41 pm
Well, the Moose Mould 516-375 arrived as scheduled.....have to say, these are REALLY, really great folks and they produce a VERY nice mould



i ordered a double cavity, right handed aluminum mould/precision steel sprue cutter...it comes with handles and is a work of art...
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/solvangshootist/516375/MM%203_zpsvftkfacd.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/solvangshootist/516375/MM%204_zps2cckwscf.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/solvangshootist/516375/MM%201_zpszicrhbll.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/solvangshootist/516375/MM%202_zpsbv7c9d8w.jpg)



AND it produces a very fine bullet from ~20:1 alloy (725f) at about .5165" dia, ~.773"long, ~285"meplat and ~.370 from the face of the meplat to the top edge of the crimp groove...which added to the JBA .50-95 case length makes the COL of the round about 2.292" wihich is about .033" shorter than the 2.325" mortise on my rifle....this just may work without needing to trim the cases...will load some dummies for test cycling over the weekend....



(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/solvangshootist/516375/MMB%202_zpssjsfb8rf.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/solvangshootist/516375/MMB%201_zpspjt9ttat.jpg)



now i need to acquire a .516" sizing die for my Star.... ;D

wyman

edit...well, i could not wait...i loaded 5 dummie rounds (even without sizing the bullet) and the COL ended up being about 2.280" with the roll crimp firmly in place....pushed them into the mag tube and cycled them all out without a hitch.....!!!!

this mould is a winner in my book....


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 13, 2015, 05:41:08 pm
Boy that mold is a beauty, as are the bullets. I'll have to compare the bullet specs to my Rapine mold bullets. They sure do look very similar. I uses a 515" sizer in my Lyman 450. It works well for me. It will be interesting to weigh a bullet before and after lubeing to determine the weight of lube that big groove holds.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: wymanwinn on November 13, 2015, 05:50:25 pm
Boy that mold is a beauty, as are the bullets. I'll have to compare the bullet specs to my Rapine mold bullets. They sure do look very similar. I uses a 515" sizer in my Lyman 450. It works well for me. It will be interesting to weigh a bullet before and after lubeing to determine the weight of lube that big groove holds.

just ordered a 515" sizer with 6 lube holes for my star....need lots of holes to pump all the lube in...

i will weigh the bullets before and after and post here

i will also, when i get some free time, create a detailed drawing for the bullet....

thanks for all the help ndnchp....very much appreciated...


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 13, 2015, 07:54:08 pm
Glad to be able to help. 

I measured my Rapine bullet in 30-1 alloy.  It measures .745" long, .350" from meplat to crimp groove, .516" diameter and weighs around 353gr.  So its a little shorter and lighter, but not much.  I've loaded this over 76gr of Goex 3F with .150" compression.

(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/Rapine350T50calbullet_zpsf52be574.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/Rapine350T50calbullet_zpsf52be574.jpg.html)

I look forward to your range report.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: wymanwinn on November 14, 2015, 09:09:03 am
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/solvangshootist/516375/.50-95_zpsmrqsi6g7.jpg)

ok, could not let this rest...LOL

the above is a JBA .50-95 case sized with a CH4D Uberti full length die, primed with a Win LR primer, neck sized to .514, 75gr of Goex FFFg compressed .150" with a .509" compression die, seated w/ roll crimp a .515" sized Moose Moulds 516375 Spencer bullet (see abpove) that weighed 373.4gr w/o lube/375.6gr with SPG filling the huge lube groove and the COL is 2.280".....

this is a VERY fine looking cartridge....looking forward to putting it on paper

ndnchf....went with 75gr of FFFg cuz of the extra length from the crimp groove to the base.....!

oh yeah....it cycles and chambers beautifully in my Cimarron (Uberti) 1867 Centennial, 28"bbl.... 8) 8) 8)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 14, 2015, 12:31:18 pm
Looks like a winner. Looking forward to your range report!


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 14, 2015, 03:50:44 pm
That is indeed a great looking mould.  I have a Lyman #515139 in 350gr. coming from Buffalo Arms. In the mean time, I trimmed some .515141's from .970" to .740" at roughly 415gr.  These I loaded up with H4895 using Fed 210 primers.  I should have used my 215's due to some propensity towards hangfires unless I pointed the muzzle up before touching them off.

I set up a "25 yard Timed and Rapid Fire Handgun Target at 100 meters (109yards) and proceeded to test my new Uberti M76 rifle & the ammo ammo with it's factory sights. The black bull (9 and 10 rings only) on this target is 5 1/2" wide and made a decent aiming point for the open sights, shot off the bench.

The 300gr. .512" RFN's did not shoot very well at all, scattering around - perhaps 3foot group - all round the target and none of the first 10 rounds on it - both high and low, side to side - LOL, however they did not lead the bore, which surprised me.  I merely blasted the rest of them off- 30 - to fireform the shortened .50/90 brass, of which I had 40.  the other 60 brass I have, is Jamison, .50/95 WCF. Nice brass. The .50/90's also fireformed nicely, by the way.

When I first received the rifle, I ran a square of red Scotch Brite through the bore - perhaps 30 strokes, lubed only with WD40 then I cleaned it well with Patch-out and oiled with Kroil. The bore feels very smooth and even.  It lacks the loose spot my brother's model 76 had, which we fire-lapped out, BTW.

The shortened #515141's, weighing from a low of 410gr. to a maximum of 420gr. I lubed them by hand, with a mix. of 60% (good) beeswax, 40" Vaseline which had worked for me, for 20years or more, smokeless or black powder.  I made 2 deliberate, 5 shot groups, off the bags (resting the back of my left hand on the bench-rest's bag) ran a horizontal group 3 1/2" wide C to C and only 1 5/8" high, then the nasty, gusting cross wind shifted, to directly behind us & gusting making a group 2.9" C to C and only 2.3" wide.

For the first day at the range with a new rifle and new loads, I was quite pleased. Nice trigger and minor boot in recoil. After arriving home, a very tight dry patch removed one small sliver of lead - that was it, for 60 shots total. There was no other lead in the barrel and not much carbon fouling either. An easy cleanup.

It will be fun to test with the new mould when it arrives.

My brothers rifle, with the mid range aperture sights and Hadley eye piece put 10 shots (both he and I shooting) into 2.465" X 1.337", again, a horizontal group in the cross wind. The load in that .45/60 was a 300gr. FN with 14.0gr. of Trail Boss.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 14, 2015, 04:05:38 pm
Just checked the mould again at Buffalo's site, seems to have a .400 from meplat to crimp groove. That might be too long, unless I trim the cases - might try crimping over the first band before shortening my brass.(after it arrives, that is. Was mailed yesterday - could take about 3 weeks - damn. I am not good at waiting.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 14, 2015, 04:39:13 pm
That is mighty fine shooting, especially for the first time out. How are you shortening those 515141 bullets?


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 14, 2015, 04:45:53 pm
I have my Dad's little lathe - Standard Optical Company is the name of it. It's babbit bearings need replacing and due to that, it has too much slop for precise work. I use it for brass work on some of my wildcats and for shortening cases and such - worked well on the bullets.
There is no carriage feed, all by crank.  Dad did a lot of good work on it - he was much more skillful than I, that's for sure.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 15, 2015, 03:29:17 pm
What sort of velocity are you guys getting with 350gr. and 75gr. 3F GOEX?

I think Swiss 1 1/2F is denser than GOEX as I was able to load 80gr. with a 420gr. bullet (shortened #515141 450gr.) with 1/10" compression. I used a 36" Easton 2317 aluminum arrow shaft as a drop tube. I have funnels at both ends and trickle the powder into the top funnel.

I have not shot, nor chronographed these loads as of yet.  I was going to wait for the new sight, but find the stock sights are quite accurate for me, on the 5 1/2" black bull of the 25 yard handgun target when placed at 100 meters.

I think I'll try some Trail Boss loads as well, with the shortened Lyman bullets.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 15, 2015, 05:33:10 pm
Further to the previous post, I threw the same stricken weight in GOEX 3F, that weighs 80gr. is Swiss 1 1/2F. The measure threw 70 to 71gr. of GOEX 3F that had been in the powder horn for 3 months.  The powder horn is water proof, so I do not thing there would have been any drying, but that is not an absolute. There may have been some weight loss due to evapouration due to the air space inside the horn.  The Swiss is obviously more dense, hence more weight of powder for the same charge.

Judging by the extra .050" compression and extra 5 gr. of powder, it might be possible to get 85gr. of Swiss into the same case with a 350gr. bullets. I must experiment with this.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 15, 2015, 06:20:02 pm
I've not yet chrono'd my 3F loads, but I expect they are around 1350-1400fps. They are noticeably more stout than the 2F loads. A slip on recoil pad is my friend  ;D


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 16, 2015, 06:09:22 pm
Sounds good, just more testing as time and temperature allows.  My Buffalo arms mould is in Vanvouver - record time, only 5 days, so far.
I was hoping to get 95gr. in the case, but 80 to 85 will be nice.  If it's going to be an express, it should be an express.
Yes - I may pick up a slip-on for myself, unless I can talk my brother into re-stocking my rifle- another 1/2" pull would be nice and higher comb, just like his. Was shouldering it today and it felt very nice indeed.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: wymanwinn on November 16, 2015, 06:16:56 pm
What sort of velocity are you guys getting with 350gr. and 75gr. 3F GOEX?

I think Swiss 1 1/2F is denser than GOEX as I was able to load 80gr. with a 420gr. bullet (shortened #515141 450gr.) with 1/10" compression. I used a 36" Easton 2317 aluminum arrow shaft as a drop tube. I have funnels at both ends and trickle the powder into the top funnel.

I have not shot, nor chronographed these loads as of yet.  I was going to wait for the new sight, but find the stock sights are quite accurate for me, on the 5 1/2" black bull of the 25 yard handgun target when placed at 100 meters.

I think I'll try some Trail Boss loads as well, with the shortened Lyman bullets.

as soon as my sizing dies shows i will load up about 10 rounds of each 75gr FFg and 75gr FFFg and chrony them for kicks and giggles...might be a week or ten days though...


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 16, 2015, 08:12:38 pm
I wouldn't get too concerned about not getting 95gr or even close. Modern brass is thicker (read safer) and the original bullet was around 300gr, so there was considerably more powder room bacck in the day. But believe me, when you touch off a compressed case full of 3F, you know you have a real rifle. It makes its own thunder and lightening ;D


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 17, 2015, 07:41:07 pm
IMAGINE - the mould arrived TODAY. Just got it out of the mail box. No taxes or custom fees either. I'm ecstatic. Small parcel, hand delivered.  I'll cast come up tomorrow over at Taylor's. Casting outdoors now is too cold and he has an exhaust fan in the shop. He might even want to try some in his .50 Sharps.

As far as getting in 95gr. of Swiss, I knew it wouldn't work already, but would like to get 85gr. in with the 350gr. bullet. That will have to be Swiss powder as GOEX is lighter, but will be interesting to chrono that 85gr. of Swiss 1 1/2F against 75gr. of 3F GOEX.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 17, 2015, 09:05:24 pm
That's prompt service! I look forward to hearing how it shoots.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 18, 2015, 12:27:28 pm
I'll be casting some up this afternoon - Wed. Just checked my 1 1/2F Swiss against GOEX 3F both from fresh cans.
With my adjustable measure set to throw 85gr. Swiss, it throws 78gr. GOEX.
So, I loaded up 5 rounds with Gasket wad, .1040comp. & .512" BA RN seated to 2.3" (light crimp bottom of crimp groove)- perfect feeding.
Loaded up another 5 without the wad, same seating depth and compression .100".
Loaded up another 5 with 78gr. 3F GOEX .100" compression - all at 2.3".
This amount of compression too almost no pressure at all, and felt very minimal. I am sure I can load the 350gr. with same charges, but time will tell that tale.
Note, I use a drop tube to settle the powder before compressing with a die.
Now, off to a meeting then casting.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 18, 2015, 06:26:56 pm
The mould, Lyman #515139AQ casts bullets in 6-7brinel (couldn't measure on the Lee scale) weight 367.2 to 367.8gr. I was fairly pleased with the narrow weights on the first 95 cast.  I did coat the mould with Ms Moly after cleaning off the preservative oils.  I didn't get it all off the sprue plate, as the first 5 or 6 bullets were had a couple wrinkles due to the oil vapours- perhaps from the plate's screw.
The mould drops them nicely, with only rarely having to tap the handle screw with a hammer handle.  Their nose length, I thought too long, will be fine in properly trimmed to length cases.  My action will allow 2.320" OAL, and these will give an OAL of 2.30".
I'll lube and load some up, perhaps tonight or tomorrow. Just in the throws of selling my Ram Hemi to a dealer.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 18, 2015, 07:38:04 pm
I checked my loading notes. I've shot the 515139 a good bit with different loads. My OA length is 2.250".


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 18, 2015, 08:26:13 pm
Here is a photo of a Rapine 350 next to a bullet that I believe came from a rather obscure Ideal or Lyman 512137 mold.  It is .512" diameter and weighs 300gr.  I bought these from Mt Baldy bullets a number of years ago.  They were suppose to be 515139s.  Several emails with the owner did not clear up what they really were.  It was only after a lot of digging that I come to the conclusion that it is from a 512137 (Ideal made 2 versions of this mold with the same number, a 300 and a 350gr).  Unfortunately it is under size for my rifle.  But I have thought about sending it to Accurate molds and have Tom make me one like it in .515" diameter.  I'd like to have a real express bullet to load.  With Old Eynsford or Swiss and this bullet, I could probably get over 85gr of powder in it.  While not much for long range, it would be pretty flat shooting within 100 yards.

(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/IMG_20151118_200856_edit_zpstpuqoq3j.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/IMG_20151118_200856_edit_zpstpuqoq3j.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 19, 2015, 01:03:19 pm
Here is a better photo of the 300gr Ideal 512137 bullet I'm thinking about getting a mold for.

(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/IMG_20151118_205448_edit_zpsp1arbduw.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/IMG_20151118_205448_edit_zpsp1arbduw.jpg.html).


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 19, 2015, 01:45:44 pm
I checked my loading notes. I've shot the 515139 a good bit with different loads. My OA length is 2.250".
Yes - OAL would depend on your 'trimmed length'. I was afraid the nose might be too long, but should be OK.  The small grease grooves might demand a grease cookie, though, with a 28" bl.  Guess we'll see.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 19, 2015, 05:10:50 pm
Yes, the 515139 shortcoming is lube capacity for that long barrel. I generally do not use them. But I pull a bore snake through every 5 or 10 rounds when shooting from the bench. Quick and easy.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on November 21, 2015, 09:36:03 pm
I have seen note of a .515" sizer die. I checked both RCBS and Lyman sites and the largest they list is 512". That one, I gave to my brother for his Sharps.
Did you open up a .512"?  Both Lyman and RCBS fit the RCBS lube sizers. I suspect the reverse might be true, but I do not know that for a fact.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 22, 2015, 06:34:39 am
Buffalo Arms sells custom sizing dies. Mine is a .515" I got from them.

Check out what I'm doing to bump up these 300gr bullets:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,56434.0.html (http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,56434.0.html)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: wymanwinn on November 24, 2015, 12:07:07 pm
ok now...

received my .515" sizing die and fabricated a punch....sized and lubed up 20 Moose Moulds 516375 Spencer bullets, sized 20 primed JBL .50-95 cases, neck sized to .514", filled 10 cases with 75gr (by weight) of Goex FFFg and 10 cases with 75gr (by weight) of Goex FFG, all powder was measured with a Belding & Mull powder thrower and a 24" drop tube, compressed the loads about .150" or just slightly shorter (about .020") than the distance from the base of the bullet to the crimp groove....seated and roll crimped the bullet to a COL of 2.280"...

saturday will be the chrony/sight in day....stay tuned!!!!


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 24, 2015, 02:27:33 pm
Looking forward to seeing your chrony results.  I have not yet run my loads across the speedometer.  Stand by for thunder and lightening  ;D


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: wymanwinn on November 24, 2015, 03:04:14 pm
Looking forward to seeing your chrony results.  I have not yet run my loads across the speedometer.  Stand by for thunder and lightening  ;D

yup, love the "thunder and lightening"...i have a .45-90 Pedersoli Sharps that adds to the fun....pretty good out to 800 yards if i do my job right...500gr paper patched bullet over a ton of Goex FFg....hoot to shoot, that's for certain...


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: wymanwinn on November 28, 2015, 03:46:25 pm
ok now...

received my .515" sizing die and fabricated a punch....sized and lubed up 20 Moose Moulds 516375 Spencer bullets, sized 20 primed JBL .50-95 cases, neck sized to .514", filled 10 cases with 75gr (by weight) of Goex FFFg and 10 cases with 75gr (by weight) of Goex FFG, all powder was measured with a Belding & Mull powder thrower and a 24" drop tube, compressed the loads about .150" or just slightly shorter (about .020") than the distance from the base of the bullet to the crimp groove....seated and roll crimped the bullet to a COL of 2.280"...

saturday will be the chrony/sight in day....stay tuned!!!!

ok, just back from the range and cleaned the 50-95....

with the above FFg load i sighted the rifle at 100 yards off of a rest with these results...

5 shots with rear sight at lowest position on the ramp, 1st sighter was low, moved rear sight up one notch on the ramp, better on 2nd shot but still low, moved sight to middle notch of the ramp and the next three danced on a 8" swinging plate....pretty good IMO...ran a boresnake/windex through the barrel
recoil was pretty mild and quite manageable
5 shots through the CED M2 chrony, 1299, 1303, 1314, 1320, 1308...1308fps avg, 21 extreme spread
ran boresnake/windex through the barrel



with the above FFFg load i again sighted the rifle at 100 yards off of a rest with these results...

5 shots with rear sight at lowest position on the ramp, 1st sighter was slightly low, moved rear sight up one notch on the ramp and bingo....danced around and on the 8" swinging plate....VERY good IMO....liking this as it shoots slightly flatter..ran boresnake/windex through the barrel
recoil was more robust but not overly so, i could probably run 50 rounds through the rifle and feel good...
5 shots through the CED M2 chrony, 1425, 1444, 1439, 1438, 1410...1431 avg, 34 extreme spread...
ran boresnake/windex through the barrel

packed up my gear and headed for the garage to clean the gun thoroughly....not too bad, windex w/vinegar and a couple of passes with a bronze bore brush and 6 windex soaked flannel patches, two dry follow-ups and finally a patch soaked in TriFlow and the barrel was gleaming...!!!

i should also note the the Moose Moiulds 516375 "big lube groove" bullet left a nice lube star on the muzzle....just enough lube for this beauty of a forearm i would say...:)

overall, i will be loading Goex FFFg 75gr by weight, thrown from a Belding & Mull powder thrower!!!!

Great gun, and a VERY good load i would say....love it when it all comes together like this...

wyman

ps...had a few "spectators" too....and they too were impressed.....:)))))


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 28, 2015, 04:23:04 pm
Thanks for the detailed report. What alloy and weight are the Moose bullets? That 3F load really moves along, a true express load. Sure glad to hear your first outing was successful.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: wymanwinn on November 28, 2015, 05:15:57 pm
Thanks for the detailed report. What alloy and weight are the Moose bullets? That 3F load really moves along, a true express load. Sure glad to hear your first outing was successful.

~20:1 alloy and 375gr lubed bullet...


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 28, 2015, 06:56:15 pm
Ok - thanks. Keep us appraised of your progress!


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: wymanwinn on November 29, 2015, 06:24:25 pm
Ok - thanks. Keep us appraised of your progress!

well, i was so excited about my successes with the .50-95 loads that i went out to my "Cave" and cast up about 200 bullets and lubed/sized them this morning....they are in the wine cooler waiting for another 75 JMB5095 cases....

now i just need a little brighter front sight instead of that skinny black sliver....LOL   maybe i will solder a brass bit to the back of the sight blade....!

dang this is fun, can't wait to shoot the beast again...:)))))


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 29, 2015, 08:09:47 pm
How about a Beach combination front sight. I've thought about getting one several times, but not followed through.

https://montanavintagearms.com/product/sights/mva/mva-combination-front-sight/ (https://montanavintagearms.com/product/sights/mva/mva-combination-front-sight/)


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: King Medallion on November 29, 2015, 11:06:57 pm
I've given thought to those sights as well. Not being a mathematician, which is the 3/8th dovetail?


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on November 30, 2015, 06:22:45 pm
I have not measured the front sight dovetail myself, but 3/8" = .375".


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: King Medallion on November 30, 2015, 07:24:50 pm
Thanks, that's what I thought.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on December 28, 2015, 04:53:57 pm
I finally got to the range today and tried out a couple loads at 50 yards.

The .515" swaged out 300gr bullet shot pretty well with swiss 2Ff, about 2.4". Not a target load, but a lot better than they shot at the original .512" diameter.

I tried 36gr of Accurate 5744 under a Lyman 515139. That shot about 2.4" also.

Over the years I've tried APP in various cartridges with so so results. It always seemed inconsistent. So decided to try it with a magnum primer rather than the usual LR primer. That really seemed to make a difference. I loaded 63gr by weight of APP 2F under a Lyman 515139. That put 4 shots under 1.5". It sounded strong with no noticeable difference between shots.

While I like shooting real black and will continue to do so, this was an interesting and unexpected display of what a difference a magnum primer can make with APP. I'm going to explore this further.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on December 29, 2015, 09:14:18 am
Some of the reading I have done about cartridge loading BP has said that magnum primers are the best way to go with black, black substitutes too. I have been shooting Blackhorn 209 in a 45 colt SAA with good results. It makes great smoke and flame and accuracy is acceptable for shooting steel at 25 yards. Cleaning has been easy too. I may have to try some 209 in the 76.
 
 So far I have only shot Trailboss loads in my 1876. Accuracy was 3 to 4 inches offhand at 50yds. I did shoot some of these loads over my chrony. Will have to get the notebook in hand to get the specifics. Finally got some 5744 powder in at my local supplier. Haven't tried that yet. I will be loading some up for the 1876 with it later today.

Ndnchf- I like that front sight you posted a link to. Some where on here you posted something about a rear sight for the 76. A ladder type I believe, maybe Smith industries?


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on December 29, 2015, 11:44:51 am
Yes, I added a riflesmith ladder sight. It's an exact copy of the original 1876 Winchester sight. Unfortunately they are no longer in business.

(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/uberti76-2_zps5013368c.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/uberti76-2_zps5013368c.jpg.html)



Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: King Medallion on December 29, 2015, 01:35:42 pm
Can I have yours then?  ;) ;D


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on December 29, 2015, 06:38:23 pm
Gee, I'd love to but I can't find a screwdriver to remove it  ;D. Fortunately, there are other tang sight options that will serve quite well.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: wymanwinn on December 30, 2015, 02:27:29 pm
Yes, I added a riflesmith ladder sight. It's an exact copy of the original 1876 Winchester sight. Unfortunately they are no longer in business.

i found and ordered this...

http://www.buffaloarms.com/winchester-reproduction_rear_sight_it-1170333.aspx?TERM=wrrs

Happy New Year!!!


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on December 30, 2015, 04:01:05 pm
i found and ordered this...

http://www.buffaloarms.com/winchester-reproduction_rear_sight_it-1170333.aspx?TERM=wrrs

Happy New Year!!!

That's a nice sight, but I thought you were looking for a tang sight  ??? My original 1873 carbine wears the same original sight on its barrel. Let us know how it works out for you.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: wymanwinn on December 30, 2015, 04:20:26 pm
That's a nice sight, but I thought you were looking for a tang sight  ??? My original 1873 carbine wears the same original sight on its barrel. Let us know how it works out for you.

you are correct ndnchf, i was looking for a tang sight....but on recollection, decided that the Hoke tang sight on my Pedersoli Sharps would be enough for long distance....and figuring that the 50-95 is prolly only decent to 125-150 yards that the ladder would suffice...

i know...you say "the guy is out to lunch" on this....but i do like to play about...:)

Happy New Year to you and yours!

wyman


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: King Medallion on December 30, 2015, 04:59:11 pm
That looks exactly like the sight that WAS on my Browning 1886. Sporting a Buckhorn now, much better. The ad says exactly like every model EXCEPT the 76? Well, good luck with it.


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: ndnchf on December 30, 2015, 05:00:40 pm
Ok got it. I hope it works out for you. My original '73 shoots pretty good with that sight.


(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/1873%20Winchester%20carbine/73at50_zps72d51e90.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/1873%20Winchester%20carbine/73at50_zps72d51e90.jpg.html):



Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: wymanwinn on December 30, 2015, 09:33:51 pm
Ok got it. I hope it works out for you. My original '73 shoots pretty good with that sight.


(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/1873%20Winchester%20carbine/73at50_zps72d51e90.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/1873%20Winchester%20carbine/73at50_zps72d51e90.jpg.html):



VERY nice....your 73 is a 44wcf i assume...!!!

i have an original in 44scf and 38wcf....both very nice pieces, but i rarely if ever shoot them....


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on March 16, 2016, 12:55:23 pm
I did some chrono testing with my .50/95 last time Taylor and I were out.  Didn't get to shoot for groups, but ran some over the 'clock' with both GOEX 3F and Swiss 1 1/2F and the 300gr. .512" Buffalo bullet, using the 34" droi tuvbe
85.0gr. 1 1/2Swiss: Fed210 primer: 1/10" compression: 1,580fps
78.0gr. 3F  GOEX::: Fed 210 primer: 1/10" compression: 1,650fps

edited - 3F not 2F GOEX


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: buckheart on March 16, 2016, 04:24:26 pm
Some I did a while back. I haven't shot much for groups yet either.

350 GR. Buffalo Arms .512 16 gr. Trail-boss avg. 1162.5  fps.
330 GR. Buffalo Arms .512 26.5 gr. AA5744 avg. 1185  fps.
330 GR. Buffalo Arms .512 27 gr. AA5744 avg. 1237  fps.
330 GR. Buffalo Arms .512 27.5 gr. AA5744 avg. 1261  fps.
455 GR. Montana .513 16 gr. Trail-boss avg. 1055  fps.
455 GR. Montana .513 32.1 gr IMR4227 avg. 1394  fps.

all averages from 5 shot strings
federal LRP


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on February 10, 2017, 07:56:35 pm
So far, my handloads using the 368gr. Lyman mould, #515139AQ are:

56.0gr. H4895 Fed 210 ---- 1,626fps.
52.0gr. IMR3031 Fed 210 - 1,700fps.
52.0gr. AmmoMart 44N Fed 210 - 1,650fps.  Note this powder is marked - use IMR3031 data. In appearance, it looks like H4895, but with blacker, slightly smaller granuals. It burns much more cleanly than either IMR3031 or H4895. It seems quite accurate and since I have a few pounds of it, I am going after that 1,000 meter buffalo with it, this summer.

Further to that old post, here is some data I found and had written down - I do not remember where I got this from, so here it is, anyway.
This data is for the Uberti model 1876 .50/95.  No make or brass nor primers used, is mentioned.

This is the data I was sort-of following/extrapolating my data from.
I also don't remember where I got this list from.
I also recall Uberti saying these actions are MUCH stronger than people give them credit for.

Note, this data is mostly jacketed bullets, which are undersized to our rifles - as far as I know.

339gr. Cast Ten-X Factory??? - 1,477fps.

300gr. Barnes FN - 53.3gr. 5744 - 1,657fps
------------------ 60.7gr. H4895 - 1,744fps
------------------ 47.2gr. IMR4198 - 1,815fps
------------------ 60.3gr. VN133 - 1,819fps- MAX
------------------ 52.7gr. IMR4198 - 2,057fps
------------------ 62.8gr. 2015 - 2,126fps

450gr. Barnes FN - 46.4gr. H4895 - 1,336fps
------------------ 32.1gr. IMR4227 - 1,363fps
------------------ 35.8gr. IMR4198 - 1,370fps
------------------ 45.3gr. IMR3031 - 1,456fps
------------------ 46.7gr. VN133 - 1,402fps
------------------ 50.5gr. H4895 - 1,473fps
------------------ 48.8gr. IMR3031 1,582fps



Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: frimath on September 05, 2017, 03:42:20 pm
Has anyone shot the Jamieson 50-95 win out of any of their Ubertis???

While in the process of working up a load for my hotly anticipated Presidio model's arrival, I had been researching etc loads for this caliber. While searching out powders and bullet weights I decided to take one of the Jamieson cartridges and pull the head in order to get some info on what their loading might be. Although I thought it would be a long shot to identify the powder I actually caught a very unexpected break in that regard!

There is very little doubt in my mind that the powder they are using is in fact HODGENS "Trail Boss" !  I was surprised to see that because I didn't think that powder was very conducive to such a large case much less in such an old timey caliber.  I looked into its use in rifle cartridges and in fact they have a loading for the 45-70 "Trapdoor". As many of us know the Trapdoor is considered the weakest action in that caliber and hence is loaded significantly less than more robust firearms.

So........ the loading they are using is a 350 grain lead bullet in front of 18-18.2 grains of the Trail Boss. I say 18-18.2 because the scale actually showed .2 and I figure it was meant to use an even 18 grains.   This 18 grains , however, seems to be at the HIGH end of the loading spectrum and I am wondering what anyone on this board may think about this information. Right now I have a bunch of 365 grain lead bullets but I don't think I want to load them up with 18 grains. I'm thinking firstly lets see how the Jamieson rounds work in the soon to be had new rifle and then maybe look at loading 14-16 grains behind the 365 grain (.515 dia. I believe) lead that I have recently received.

I'd love to get some feedback on all of this and would appreciate any worthwhile "musings" regarding same........ thanks!



Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: kwilliams1876 on September 06, 2017, 10:23:18 am
the Jamieson brass is what i use, with 1f black powder, compressed, fiber wad, std. primer, ideal 512138 430 gr. cast bullet. the combo prints nice 100yd groups and with the original style repro tang sight, able to consistently hit a 14" gong at 200 yards. never tried for a group at 50 yds.
best
kw


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: frimath on September 06, 2017, 04:06:38 pm
You're using a 430 grain bullet?!?!?!?


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: kwilliams1876 on September 06, 2017, 05:19:08 pm
yes sir 430gr.....works fine with the 1-48" twist. plus this ideal mold has the large black powder grease grooves. no leading, lube star on muzzle.
it is not the the express load of the original, but Uberti chose the rifling twist, and the little 300/350 grain pellets never seemed to work for me at 100 yds. a little less powder in case but, really makes no difference in performance.......sounds good going off too!


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: frimath on September 12, 2017, 03:24:42 pm
Quickie update:

So I took the Presidio Carbine out to the range for fun this weekend. Shot about 10 rounds of the Jamieson 50-95 win commercial loading and it was surprisingly mild. I was hitting the paper a little high, around 6 inches ( maybe even a bit higher) or so at 50 yards. I may have posted previously, that it seems the load they are using is 18-18.2 grains of "Trail Boss" behind a 350 grain lead bullet. I have very limited experience with this powder and was wondering what others here on the board think about the load they used. It seems that the recommended loading for a 45-70 Gov't is about max of 16-16.5 grains. That is recommended for the weak action "Trapdoor" models.

Also, I loaded a few of my own with a 365 grain lead bullet propelled by 41 grain of IMR 4198 . I found this loading has been used to great effect here on the "presidio" thread and decided to reduce the loading used by another cowpoke here just to be a bit conservative. The results were certainly a more "stout" load and recoil. But it shot a little bit lower at 50 yards and certainly closer to the point of aim. What was also interesting is that when I aimed at a piece of a clay "bird" at 100 yards I hit it dead on! Perfect!!! so this load is certainly worth giving some further investigation on. I may even try a heavier bullet.

I am going to pour through these boards in this regard to loading this caliber and then return to Mike Venturino's book on loading for Lever Action Rifles. If I understood how to post photos I'd post my targets for show and tell. But so far I haven't figured out how to post photos just yet. Thanks to all for the postings and help in this forum!


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: greyhawk on September 12, 2017, 05:27:31 pm
Quickie update:

So I took the Presidio Carbine out to the range for fun this weekend. Shot about 10 rounds of the Jamieson 50-95 win commercial loading and it was surprisingly mild. I was hitting the paper a little high, around 6 inches ( maybe even a bit higher) or so at 50 yards. I may have posted previously, that it seems the load they are using is 18-18.2 grains of "Trail Boss" behind a 350 grain lead bullet. I have very limited experience with this powder and was wondering what others here on the board think about the load they used. It seems that the recommended loading for a 45-70 Gov't is about max of 16-16.5 grains. That is recommended for the weak action "Trapdoor" models.

Also, I loaded a few of my own with a 365 grain lead bullet propelled by 41 grain of IMR 4198 . I found this loading has been used to great effect here on the "presidio" thread and decided to reduce the loading used by another cowpoke here just to be a bit conservative. The results were certainly a more "stout" load and recoil. But it shot a little bit lower at 50 yards and certainly closer to the point of aim. What was also interesting is that when I aimed at a piece of a clay "bird" at 100 yards I hit it dead on! Perfect!!! so this load is certainly worth giving some further investigation on. I may even try a heavier bullet.

I am going to pour through these boards in this regard to loading this caliber and then return to Mike Venturino's book on loading for Lever Action Rifles. If I understood how to post photos I'd post my targets for show and tell. But so far I haven't figured out how to post photos just yet. Thanks to all for the postings and help in this forum!

posting pics is easy - when you are here writing - just go out the left lower corner of the text box and theres a button sez Additional options - hit that - up comes a little bitty menu with Attach : Browse - hit the browse box takes you into your computer to find whatever pic you wanna post - just click it an its done - itll show down below when its right - - at the other end take pic with phone and email to yrself from the phone - that puts it on the puter ........ the kids or grankids would have a way smarter way that tha to do it all but it works


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: dusty texian on December 07, 2017, 11:13:00 am
Have just completed loading 50/95 cal. Jamison brass for the 9th. time , without any brass failure . Bp. was used in all loadings . How many times are you 50/95 shooters getting out of your brass ?,,,,,DT


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: kwilliams1876 on December 07, 2017, 01:40:50 pm
yes, i am at 9-10-11 reloads myself with the jamison brass. have not had a split yet. i basically just neck size mine by leaving the die 1 turn short of touching the shell holder. the uberti chamber neck is in a different place than the rcbs die. my loads now are doing real well at 200yds, so am very pleased. 1f powder and .060 fiber wad, std. primer. will eventually try the 1 1/2f next.
kw
montana territory


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: dusty texian on December 07, 2017, 04:29:40 pm
Same here KW1876 , all I do is neck size enough to get a good bullet grip leaving the shoulder out of the sizing , then crimp after bullet seating . Works for me and does not overwork the brass . ,,,DT 


Title: Re: Loading Data for the 50/95WCF
Post by: DTS on December 18, 2017, 04:22:21 pm
Hodgdon's Trail Boss works reasonably well in all normal rifle ctgs. and will not produce pressures, it seems, over about 28,000psi - and pressures that high seems only in the large case, small bore rounds like the .300 magnums shooting 180gr. jacketed bullets.

A full case of it (6" drop tube) in my wildcat .375 - 80gr. capacity case, with a 310gr. cast bullet, produced only 1,380fps and no pressure to speak of - go-pow - load, like a very soft cast bullet load.

I've used 15gr. TB in a .45/60 (.45 1.9") chambered Sharps with 385gr. cast with no problems and 1 1/2" to 2" accuracy at 100 meters off the bags. It was a 100% loading to the bottom of the bullet. I was able to seat the bullet out to about the same
OAL as a normal. .45/70 due to the 3/8" leade (throat) I put in my chamber.

In the .50/95 Uberti for a top load, quite safe in the 76's - likely new or old, 100% to the base of a seated bullet is the max. load. It will be a go-pow load, with very low pressure, likely under or at 20,000psi and might produce about 1,150fps - with about any bullet weight.

I just uploaded and printed off a chart of "Modern Uberti 1876 ONLY, 28" barrel" data:

Pressures calculated using Quick-Load, running from 20,000psi starting loads to 26,000psi for the maximum loads.

http://1587510142.rsc.cdn77.org/RRoom/researchsheets/50-95,%20Uberti%201876.pdf

This data is for cast 339gr. as well as 300gr. and 450gr. jacketed ammo, using Bertram brass and Federal 215 magnum primers.

I am going to start using 5744 as I was able to find 3 pounds of it and will start at 38.0gr. and work from there, with my 368gr. Lyman mound.
I expect 1,600fps for the starting load and perhaps 1,700fps for a working max.
Last summer, I was able to get into the dirt underneath our 1,000meter buffalo target with my last 3 rounds. I use a Smith sight.
This is the sight, available from Smith in Oregon or from Brownells - same price, $169.00.  The detents between the 100yard marks make for repeatable sight settings for long range shooting. I was using 52.0gr. N44 AmmoMart powder, with the 368gr. Lyman bullet, for 1,650fps with a thin beer-box card wad between powder and bullet, Fed 210 primers. My rifle likes this load and those last 3 rounds at the 1000metre buffalo appeared to drop into about a 3 to 4 foot group. Next summer, I'll ring that fellow. 4' x 8' buffalo He has no legs below the knees and is mounted, hanging on chains, so he rings with a bullet hit.  Brother Taylor got on him with his .50/90 Sharps, 600gr. Buffalo Arms bullet and 91gr. Swiss 1 1/2.
(http://images15.fotki.com/v230/photos/2/36012/9556651/p_851000046_1-vi.jpg?1313788020)