Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => Gun Reviews => Topic started by: Nimble Fingers on December 05, 2013, 09:39:27 PM
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Been a while since I have been on and if I haven't seen an article please forgive. I was under the impression that we were going to see a .44-40 version from Winchester /Miroki (sp?) around this time. Has anyone heard if it is coming yet or is it a figment of my fervent imagination?
Thanks.
Nimble Fingers
SE FL
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Yes, they're out there.
I've seen several on gun broker.
I have the 1873 Miroku and 2 Browning/Miroku 86's. Awesome quality and beautiful.
The 92 Miroku 44-40 is on my short-list of 'wanna gits'.
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The November 2013 issue of the American Rifleman reviewed the new 2013 Miroku made Winchester 1873. The article appears on page 64 and indicates that for now the short rifle (20" round barrel with crescent butt plate) will only be available in .357/.38 Special chambering. Possibly the earlier production in 2009 produced .44-40 rifles.
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Been a while since I have been on and if I haven't seen an article please forgive. I was under the impression that we were going to see a .44-40 version from Winchester /Miroki (sp?) around this time. Has anyone heard if it is coming yet or is it a figment of my fervent imagination?
Thanks.
Nimble Fingers
SE FL
Oops. My apologies. JohnsonBarr is correct and I was WRONG.
I was thinking of the 92.
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Yes I have the John Wayne Commemorative in .44-40 that I had customized to also shoot .344 special. But I was referring to the 1873 that is currently out in .357/.38, with the rumor that just about now they were going to have a run in .44-40. I am also wanting an 1886 but if the3 1873 came out then I would sell my Cimmarron 1873 in .44 special and buy that one instead, rather have the Winchester name on the barrel. If anyone has news let us know? Thanks again.
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Yes I have the John Wayne Commemorative in .44-40 that I had customized to also shoot .344 special. But I was referring to the 1873 that is currently out in .357/.38, with the rumor that just about now they were going to have a run in .44-40. I am also wanting an 1886 but if the3 1873 came out then I would sell my Cimmarron 1873 in .44 special and buy that one instead, rather have the Winchester name on the barrel. If anyone has news let us know? Thanks again.
Are you into re enactment or something that the name on the barrel matters? If so I would think more importantly would be the fact that those new Miroku made 73's are not an accurate replica in that the lever throw is short stroked.
Your going to need to invest in a gun nearly 100 years old for that name Winchester on the gun to really mean anything, none are exact but Cimarron offers a more accurate replica of those.
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Nimble Fingers,
Yes, Winchester plans to sell the 1873 in 44-40. According to their representative at the NRA convention last May, they were to be out last October. However, I've seen a report that they were delayed until early 2014.
The nice thing is that they've already been tuned and have a modest short stroke (lever opening is just short of 90 degrees), and they sell for slightly less than a stock Uberti. Thus, you don't have to spend additional money to have it tuned.
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Howdy
I am looking forward to handling the new 73 . Would love to have one with checkered stocks and a pistol grip 24 inch half octagon barrel . This could be the Ultimate Vintage Hunting Rifle . ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=027C&mid=534200
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Yes it is a 10 month old dead thread but...
I just got my Miroku Winchester 73 in 44-40 20 inch round barrel short rifle, actually a factory refurb, looks like a brand new shiny rifle to me. Not sure what they fixed and the price was under a grand (not very much under).
Levers easily. I will need to practice to make sure I fully close the lever and thus disengage the lever safety/trigger block.
Brass and dies in bound from TOTW, .428 bullets enroute from Cowboy Bullets, The groove diameter if spec should be .4285 the soft desperado bullets should bump up to seal bore with no problem.
Wood to metal fit pretty nice with the wood being slightly proud.
My first 73 win, the bolt seems pretty wimpy compared to 92s etc. The barrel is pretty heavy at the muzzle seems to be almost twice as much metal around the hole than is on my round barreled rossi 92 carbine.
The lever safety / Trigger block will take some getting used to.
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Hi all, this is only my second post, but I have two of the Miroku made 1873's. I got one of the short rifles in .357 mag early in the year, but in December I snagged one of the 24 inch octagon barreled models in 44-40. They were announced as a Shot Show
special back in January. The information posted on the Winchester site said they were only going produce 250 each of this model in 44-40 and .357 mag.
I had been watching Gunbroker.com all year, but finally gave up. Then I happened to log on back in December and saw several for sale. Anyway, I bid on one and got it below MSRP. It arrived at my FFL on Christmas Eve.
Here's a shot of it. Since these rifles come with the tang drilled and tapped, I was able to mount a Marble's sight right away.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/forsinglepost_zps5323bfc2.jpg)
Here's a shot of the rifles along with a few Winchester marked collectables.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/forpost_zps9afcd3aa.jpg)
I wasn't crazy about the wood on the short rifle.
The butt stock has little tiger strip to it, but it doesn't match the forearm which is not a great piece of wood.
However, the wood on the sporting rifle is absolutely gorgeous. It dark with lots of figure and matched up perfectly
Cheers
P.S. I haven fired the new rifle yet, but I will work up a more in depth review when I get the time.
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They also have them in RB 20", 44/40. wM1
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They also have them in RB 20", 44/40. wM1
Correct, I should have mentioned that the short rifles (both the blued frame and the case color frame) were produced in 3 calibers---.357 mag, 44-40, and 45 Colt.. Miroku produces all of these in limited production runs during the year ranging from a low of 250 to a high of several thousand. Consequently, there is rarely a selection of all three caliber across all the models available at any one time. This year, I have seen more of the .357 mag listed for sale than any other caliber, which would seem to indicate that they ran more of this caliber than the others.
The serial numbers for all of these runs are not sequential regardless of configuration like they were back in the days of the original Winchester factory, but start fresh with number 00001 for each run. They manage this by including a two letter suffix plus 3 more alphanumeric characters to code the model. These last 5 characters change with each run.
Twenty or forty years down the road it will be hard to date a Miroku unless they release a chart with all the alphanumeric codes.
Presently one can call the service desk at Winchester/Browning in Utah and they will give on a production date for any Miroku serial number.
Cheers
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Barleycorn Outfitters usually has them in stock. wM1
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Hello CJ. Your 1873 Model rifles are very nice looking . Thanks for taking the time to photograph them . Look forward to a shooting report. ,,,,,DT
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Cannon are they just making 250 of just the 3 different calibers in case colored recirvers 24"? I want to get a 24" octagon grade II/III .357 case colored Miroku. Will that be hard to find?
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Cannon are they just making 250 of just the 3 different calibers in case colored recirvers 24"? I want to get a 24" octagon grade II/III .357 case colored Miroku. Will that be hard to find?
According to the Winchester website they were only to produce 250 each of two calibers: .357 mag and 44-40 in the 24 inch octagon barrel model. This was announced as a Shot Show special at the 2014 Shot Show. These are special runs
offered only to those dealers who attend the industry show each January. This years show starts next week.
I had heard that the entire run got reserved by the various attending dealers before the 3 day show was up. Miroku must have waited until they had run all of their catalog models before they tooled up for this run since the sporting rifles just started showing up in November.
Once again, since these are not catalog models for 2014, they have a finite supply and when they are gone they are gone. However, if they feel the market is still there Winchester could have Miroku run them again or even add them to the 2015 catalog. There is no guarantee.
Before the holidays, there were at least 8 or 10 for sale almost continuously on Gunbroker.com--mostly .357 mag. and maybe one or two in 44-40. I just looked and there are only 5 listed--all .357 mag. I don't know why the 44-40's seem to be in short supply--maybe a bigger demand by the collector types who want a historical chambering.
The bottom line to your question is yes--there are still .357 mags available, but If they in fact only ran 250 of these for the entire world market as their web site states, they won't last forever.
MSRP for the octagon barrel model is a whopping $1740. Of course street prices are lower. I'm seeing $1550 as a reserve with
$1650 as a buy it now price. The prices were lower before the holidays. I snagged my 44-40 for $1500 even with $30 shipping.
There are plenty of the short rifles listed---both blued and color case---mostly .357mag also. Some of those are priced pretty close to a comparable Uberti. MSRP for the all blued model was $1300 and the color case short rifle was $1580, but nobody is asking that kind of money now.
Lastly, be advised that if you are a purist, the Miroku sporting rifle is a less accurate copy of an original than a Uberti is--with the one exception of the wood. My new 24 inch octagon barreled Miroku is a full 1/2 pound lighter than either a comparable original or a Uberti. They managed this weight reduction two ways. One is with internal changes and thus mostly invisible. By making minor geometric changes to internal components such as rounding off the square corners of the toggle links they were able to cut weight without reducing strength or functionality.
However, they made another change that I spotted the moment I removed the rifle from the box. It's the octagon barrel. it's dimensions are less than either a Uberti or an original. Not in length, but in diameter. Starting at the receiver, the Miroku is 5% narrower between the flats tapering to 10% narrower at the muzzle. Both the Uberti and an original with a 24 inch octagon barrel are almost exactly .75 or 3/4 ths. of an inch between the flats at the muzzle while the Miroku is only .67 or 11/16ths of an inch.
Many would not notice this unless you hold the Miroku up next to the Uberti, but as I said, I spotted it immediately.
In the shot below, you can spot the more tapered barrel on the Miroku by the larger space between the barrel and the magazine tube.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/barrelcomparison_zps60931eef.jpg)
Obviously the more pronounced taper requires a longer magazine hanger to keep it aligned with the bore---plus a slightly taller front site. In case you are wondering why it's hard to see the front sight on grandpa's rifle--at some point either by choice or necessity, he replaced the original blade with a hand carved piece of hog tusk ivory. It's a bit worn down now, but with the rear sight on the lowest notch of the elevator I can still hit what I aim at with it. I'll probably never change it out because it's another bit of family history.
I have no idea how important this barrel taper thing will be to people. I can appreciate them reducing the overall weight of the gun, but only if they made it less obvious--just keeping it at 5% for the entire length would have been better since there is already a slight taper to an original, but tapering it to 10% at the muzzle makes it obvious.
For that much money, I want a more accurate copy--at least externally. I have finally decided that I was being too OCD about it
and just to let it go. Besides, the only way one could correct it would be to send it off to some place like Turnbull and pay a small fortune to have it re-barreled. Still, I thought it worth mentioning.
Cheers
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Cool Cannon. Thanks so much for added info. Never heard that mentioned before about the Miroku rifles. After this post I am clicking the "buy it now" button on gun broker. I'll post pics after I buy it. I'm going with the .357/38. I already have a Uberti .45 colt 20" but want something with Winchester on the barrel. ;D It would be my plinking gun. I'll add a Marbles sight immediately as the tang is tapped. I'm pretty excited. Im a lever action addict. Love them. My Marlin 336ss is my deer gun and my Uberti and this Winchester I'm buying will be my historic guns. To take out of the case to look at or take out and shoot. Plus I have a 3 year old son that when he hits his teens I'd like to pass one of these gems into his hands.
Thanks again!
Jeff
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Cannon Jockey, that is the first I've heard of the smaller dimensions and tapering of the octagon barrel. Yes, it is fairly obvious when looking at the angle you showed. As to whether that will matter to potential buyers...if they don't mind the obvious differences in markings on the barrel and tang from the originals and Ubertis, then they probably won't mind the barrel taper!
As to whether those particular models are ended after the runs of 250, regardless of what they said before, it's hard to imagine them turning down sales if the first models sold well. But at any rate, with Shot Show coming up next week, I'm sure folks will be questioning them about "all things '73" :) and we'll be getting updates on what's coming. Two years ago, when they first showed their new '73, I was able to go by their booth and take a look. But last year I never had a chance to leave our booth and go over there. This year, who knows?
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Here is my new Winchester 1873 rifle in 357/38. I'm excited to get it in and add to the gun case next to my Uberti 1873. I like the tiger striped wood it has going. Out of all the new Winchesters on GB I thought this rifle had the best looking grade II/III wood.
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Very nice. Looks like you did well!
Cheers
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Very nice. Looks like you did well!
Cheers
Thanks. I'm hoping I'll be pleased. Maybe it'll be in next week. I'll post more picks of it once I get it. Thanks everyone for all the info! :)
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Since this is the review section, here is another thing that I thought I would share about the Miroku 1873's and this would pertain to any of them.
Miroku added an additional safety system that is not on either a Uberti or an original. However, it is unobtrusive and basically self-working. The long metal bolt that cocks the hammer when one works the lever is now called the firing pin extension. On an original there is no such part because it and the firing pin were a single piece of machined metal that threads through the breechblock.
Possibly for production efficiencies, Uberti chose to make this into two separate pieces, which simply mate inside the breechblock. The rear section (the part that you see) is now called the firing pin extension. Miroku followed this same method, but redesigned the extension to also house a hammer block safety. Basically what they have done is to take a single part from the original Winchester and turned it into an assembly comprised of 10 parts---now that's progress ::)
Below a shot of the Miroku extension. It is now hollow with an internal pin under pressure from a small coil spring. The black button at the very rear tip of the extension is the contact end of that internal pin. The other end of the internal coil spring is attached to a cam lever, the top of which you will see protruding from a machined slot running length-wise on the extension. All this is held in place with two punch pins.
Peeking out from under the rear of the dust cover, is the base of a lug which the cam lever interacts with inside the receiver.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/recievershot_zps1154e0c4.jpg)
The whole purpose of this affair is to prevent an accidental discharge if the hammer is bumped while being in the down position
with a round in the chamber. The rifles still have the normal half cock position which has sufficed as a safety system for at least 140 years, but of course in today's litigious society, companies now have to protect people from their own negligence.
Thank goodness, they didn't go the route that they did with their 1886, 1892, 1894, and 1895, which replaced the half cock with a rebounding hammer and an upper tang safety switch. It's a shame that companies now seem compelled to fix things that weren't broken in the first place.
As I mentioned, the system on the new 73's is not as obtrusive, but I have already encountered a problem with it in my short rifle. It was probably just a freak accident, but I can see it happening to others if they are not aware of the possibility.
After a range trip this past summer with the short rifle, I had just finished cleaning the bore, and was giving the entire rifle a final wipe down. The lever was down, so the extension was fully extended to the rear. That's when my cleaning rag caught the little tab protruding from the slot on the extension and levered it up to a vertical position. This dislodged the internal coil spring from its track and left the cam lever sticking up at an angle. I could see the little spring inside doubled up, but there was no way to reposition it through the narrow slot. Consequently, I could not close the action.
A smarter and more sensible person would have probably sent the rifle to the Winchester service center, but having disassembled and done minor gunsmithing on my 73's numerous times over the years, I decided to see if I could correct the issue on my own.
The extension had to be removed and mounted in a vice to drive out the rear retaining pin with a punch. Then using an illuminated magnifier and tweezers, the coil spring was remounted inside the shaft and the whole thing reassembled. It took the better part of an evening to figure out and correct. It has functioned normally since then, and of course I have since taken care to avoid duplicating what caused the issue in the first place.
Fortunately, over the week end, I found a solution to prevent this from ever happening again. Pioneer Gunworks, who makes short stroke kits for Uberti's and the new Miroku's, also makes a replacement drop in firing pin extension that is a simple solid piece of metal. This effectively eliminates the new safety block system and restores the gun to a more historically authentic configuration.
I placed an order this week for two--one for each of my rifles at $40 a pop.
Cheers
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Thanks for that info. I may look into that when my Miroku shows up.
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"Basically what they have done is to take a single part from the original Winchester and turned it into an assembly comprised of 10 parts---now that's progress."
And that's why my newest Winchester '73 was made in 1882, and my newest clone was made in 1995. They just can't help but tinker with perfection. ;D
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The factory firing pin extension on the Miroku is a mess and looks even worse.
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The factory firing pin extension on the Miroku is a mess and looks even worse.
Yes, but the world is so much a safer place now---well, at least maybe from a few dimwits and the lawyers who are willing to represent them in frivolous lawsuits ;D
Cheers
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Fortunately, over the week end, I found a solution to prevent this from ever happening again. Pioneer Gunworks, who makes short stroke kits for Uberti's and the new Miroku's, also makes a replacement drop in firing pin extension that is a simple solid piece of metal. This effectively eliminates the new safety block system and restores the gun to a more historically authentic configuration.
I placed an order this week for two--one for each of my rifles at $40 a pop.
Cannon,
After you install you new bolt can you review how difficult it was to install one? I may do this with mine if the new 10 piece bolt/firing pin is a nuisance. Also, do you think you'll ever use the pioneer gun works short stroke kits? How are the actions on the Miroku's? Thanks
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Cannon,
After you install you new bolt can you review how difficult it was to install one? I may do this with mine if the new 10 piece bolt/firing pin is a nuisance. Also, do you think you'll ever use the pioneer gun works short stroke kits? How are the actions on the Miroku's? Thanks
If I have time, I will try to photograph the steps. It's not hard, but unless one has disassembled an 1873 before, I would not recommend it without some guidance. I was one of those adventurous kids who tried to disassemble just about anything mechanical I came in contact with, so I tackled an 1873 when I was 13. It only took me 2 or 3 tries to get it reassembled without having extra parts left over. ;D
The action on the Miroku's are quite smooth out of the box--at least much smother than any Uberti I have ever handled. The springs are also light compared to the ham fisted heavy stuff that Uberti uses. With the addition of a lever stroke that's about 15 degrees less that either a Uberti or an original, I presently don't see the need for any action work. Of course a serious and well seasoned CAS competitor may have a totally different outlook on this.
As I understand it, those short stroke kits that Pioneer sells are not exactly drop in kits, but usually require fitting and adjustment.
The extension on the other hand is supposed to be just a simple swap out.
Cheers
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If I have time, I will try to photograph the steps. It's not hard, but unless one has disassembled an 1873 before, I would not recommend it without some guidance. I was one of those adventurous kids who tried to disassemble just about anything mechanical I came in contact with, so I tackled an 1873 when I was 13. It only took me 2 or 3 tries to get it reassembled without having extra parts left over. ;D
The action on the Miroku's are quite smooth out of the box--at least much smother than any Uberti I have ever handled. The springs are also light compared to the ham fisted heavy stuff that Uberti uses. With the addition of a lever stroke that's about 15 degrees less that either a Uberti or an original, I presently don't see the need for any action work. Of course a serious and well seasoned CAS competitor may have a totally different outlook on this.
As I understand it, those short stroke kits that Pioneer sells are not exactly drop in kits, but usually require fitting and adjustment.
The extension on the other hand is supposed to be just a simple swap out.
Cheers
Yeah no biggie. Don't go out of your way. I don't mean to bug you about it. I've had my Uberti apart several times so I'm sure I can handle it. I appreciate it!
Thanks ;)
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The replacement firing pin extensions arrived in the mail Saturday, but I had a function to attend, so I didn't get around to putting them in until today.
Here's the stock pin on left and the Pioneer Gunworks replacement on the right
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/comparisonpost_zps35f91de6.jpg)
One does not have to do a full breakdown to swap out the extension. You only have to remove the side plates and the toggle links.
One tip, if your links still have tight tolerances, I have found that they come out and go back in easiest when fully retracted, i.e., with the lever fully extended. The hammer being fully cocked in the process takes most of the tension out too.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/togglelinkremoval_zps8ac61eda.jpg)
Next there is a small loose fit retaining pin in the breech block to push out, which releases the extension from the block. This is different from a Uberti, since their extension is held in by a key that is released by pushing out the large pivot pin.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/pintopushout_zps1df488ec.jpg)
Now all one has to do is fully depress the hammer back far as it will go and there is just enough wiggle room for the extension to slide over it and fully out of the receiver.
Reverse this process with the new extension. The firing pin is under spring tension, so when you butt the extension up against it in the breech block, you will have to push a bit to make sure the retention pin enters the forward notch in the extension
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/feeltensionshot_zps16514a4a.jpg)
Reassemble and done. Including the cam lever, the internal pin, and spring plus two retaining pins--a total of five parts have been eliminated.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/forward_observer/finalshotwithflash_zpsa36ed2e3.jpg)
The only thing left from the safety system is a lug and it's retaining screw built in to the top of the receiver. It can only be seen when the dust cover is in the forward position. It's fairly unobtrusive and besides--removing it would leave a hole in the top of the receiver for dust and debris to enter.
I tested a couple of primed, but unloaded cartridges and got a nice even primer strike and ignition, so everything appears ready to go.
Cheers
Note: I've been informed that Uberti's made prior to 2008 did not use the key and pivot pin to lock in the firing pin extension, but used the same smaller pin retainer like the Miroku does. I only have one Italian 1873 older than 2008 and have never had occasion to have to disassembly it that far. Anyway, this is just to clear up that point if one finds their selves needing to remove a Uberti firing pin extension from the breech block.
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Great info. Thank you for sharing Robert!
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Cannon Joceky you made an excellent point that...
"In the shot below, you can spot the more tapered barrel on the Miroku by the larger space between the barrel and the magazine tube."
These rifles are butt ugly at a glance in my opinion. The large gap under the barrel was the first thing I noticed about the one I saw in the store.
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Cannon Joceky you made an excellent point that...
"In the shot below, you can spot the more tapered barrel on the Miroku by the larger space between the barrel and the magazine tube."
These rifles are butt ugly at a glance in my opinion. The large gap under the barrel was the first thing I noticed about the one I saw in the store.
I would disagree about with calling the rifle butt ugly. It is a beautiful rifle as it is. However, it is simply not an authentic copy
of an original. I don't demand that they make it so close that you can't tell the copy from an original for obvious reasons.
I also don't mind them finding ways to reduced the weight if it is not patently obvious. Unfortunately for me the extreme barrel taper is patently obvious. The only analogy I can come up with is that it is kind of like I purchased an expensive painted copy of the Mona Lisa---only to realize that the artist changed her hair color. It might not look bad, it just doesn't look right.
By the way, I just noticed that Winchester has added a new model 1873 on their web site. It is another sporting rifle with a 24 inch octagon barrel. It now appears to be a regular catalog item but with this model the stock has the pistol grip design, which requires a curved finger lever. I also noticed that the weight is listed at 8 lbs. rather than 7.5 like the one I have.
I am wondering if this means they are correcting the barrel situation for the new model since a pistol grip stock simply could not account for an extra half pound.
I called the Winchester service desk to find out how to register my disappointment with the rifle. The lady I talked to was nice and gave me an email address that would come to her. She said to list my issue and she would forward it on to the proper people. It's probably a waste of time, but I'm still going to follow through with it.
Cheers
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By the way, I just noticed that Winchester has added a new model 1873 on their web site. It is another sporting rifle with a 24 inch octagon barrel. It now appears to be a regular catalog item but with this model the stock has the pistol grip design, which requires a curved finger lever. I also noticed that the weight is listed at 8 lbs. rather than 7.5 like the one I have.
The new catalog rifle they added with the pistol grip is provided below. I'm not a fan of the curved lever on a 73. I don't mind the Uberti 1873 pistol grip with the straight lever but I seem I can't get passed the look of Winchester's new 73 with the pistol grip curved lever. Just my 2 cents.
Jeff
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Actually the Uberti special sporting rifle has both a curved finger lever and lower tang. The Uberti is simply not as pronounced as the Miroku in the picture.
However, neither are the originals pictured in my R.L. Wilson book, my original & reproduction catalogs, nor any of the photos I have seen. If this is true then the new offering from Miroku once again has been altered for no apparent reason.
I did send a rather lengthy email to the Winchester/Browning office explaining my issue with the new rifle. It may not help, but at least I got it off my chest.
Cheers
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Being totally clueless, I rather like my new japchester 44-40
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+1 to what capt. Dan said.
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I've got one of there in 357 with the octogon barrel and case hardened reciever.
Nice wood, nice fit and finish, and runs smoothly. I am aware of the tapered barrel and firing pin changes, and I guess I have no problems with them. I realized it isn't intended as a historically accurate reproduction, though I'm glad it didn't get a tang safety.
So far I haven't found a cast bullet load that produces decent accuracy, but am still experimenting.
Anyway, I have a question for you guys: I'd like to replace the semi-buckhorn rear with a flip up, preferably adjustable flat top sight, and add a tang peep sight. Suggestions?
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I added a marbles improved tang base with a standard height post to my rifle. I suggest to remove the buckhorn sights and a a blank. I installed a williams blank. Work out well. If you add a tang sight the buckhorn will be in your view of the tang so I'd remove it. I actually tried to add a marbles sporting flip up/down rear buckhorn sight to go with my tang sight to be able to toggle between the two. Bad idea. The sporting flip up buckhorn didn't want to flip up without scraping off the blued finish on my barrel. Luckily I had a playing card between my barrel and adjustable sight so it didn't cause any damage. Let's see you gun. Post some pics. Would like to see it! Hope that helps ya.
Jeff
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Thanks for the super helpful reply. I'll skip the flip up and go with a blank.
I was looking at the Marbles standard peep, and the improved peep. It looked like the difference was interchangeable posts on the improved version for long range, which I don't see needing. Which one would you suggest, and why?
I'll have to get some photos of the gun. I also really hope to come up with a cast bullet load that gives decent accuracy.
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Another question. I see marble part 009809 listed for 1873 Winchester, but on some vender pages it says does not fit the new Winchester brand 1873.
It looks like 009832 might be the correct sight? Not sure what screw kit either.
Marble's page doesn't seem to reference Miroku built rifles.
Anyway I'd appreciate a suggestion for a vendor or link to the correct sight, screws and dove tail blank if anyone has that.
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Another question. I see marble part 009809 listed for 1873 Winchester, but on some vender pages it says does not fit the new Winchester brand 1873.
It looks like 009832 might be the correct sight? Not sure what screw kit either.
Marble's page doesn't seem to reference Miroku built rifles.
Anyway I'd appreciate a suggestion for a vendor or link to the correct sight, screws and dove tail blank if anyone has that.
I will save you a lot of time and confusion. This thanks to Canon Jockey as I went through the same thing. I'd order all of it through Brownells.com as they are cheaper than midway. However, I did order my Williams slot blank though midway. I liked the Williams slot blank cause it's not flashy and has an Allen wrench for adjustment so no hammering. It will fit a 3/8" dovetail which yours is.
Here is the link to midway.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/349947/williams-slot-blank-for-3-8-dovetails-aluminum-black
In the receipt on the Brownells pic disregard the SPORTING REAR NO. 95. I sent that back. You will need the PEEP SIGHT SCREW SET. It will include the two tang screws need to mount your base. It will also come with a long screw (throw that aside, you won't need it). I chose the standard post as I think will work well for the range I'll shoot but if you choose to mount the mid-long range or long range post the numbers are 990120 & 990130.
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Thank you very much.
I might wait a bit. I think I mentioned earlier I've been getting horrible accuracy especially with cast bullets and am thinking the gun might go back to Winchester.
A fella posted a link on a thead I started about trying to find an accurate load for cast bullets.
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,52729.0.html
I'm starting to think I have a similar issue, as mine gives larger groups than what this guy was getting.
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Thank you very much.
I might wait a bit. I think I mentioned earlier I've been getting horrible accuracy especially with cast bullets and am thinking the gun might go back to Winchester.
A fella posted a link on a thead I started about trying to find an accurate load for cast bullets.
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,52729.0.html
I'm starting to think I have a similar issue, as mine gives larger groups than what this guy was getting.
That's no good. Best of luck figuring it all out. In the meantime check out this clip. Sorry, I just recently watched this and thought of it when you mentioned rifle accuracy 8)
http://youtu.be/r4SF22qFxbE
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That was great!
Yeah I talked to Winchester today and they sent a shipping label and offered to have a look.
I may try a couple more loads before sending it in. I've had a bore scope down it (as far as it will reach) and did see 3 pits in a row, but I've seen worse bores shoot moa.
Anyway, I wouldn't want to be on the LA police marksmanship demo team if someone were shooting this rifle.
http://youtu.be/jDP8BRSEjrA
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Here's the gun
(http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af248/JeffinTD/IMG_0615_zpso1cqmkws.jpg)
(http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af248/JeffinTD/IMG_0614_zpstahrwgsw.jpg)
I went out shooting yesterday with friend (Dead eye Lefty) who was kind enough to give me an introduction and some coaching for cowboy action shooting and fast draw. He had some 125 grain Tightgroup loads, and I fired a string in my rifle. They seemed to shoot pretty good. My 158 RNFP Trailboss loads in his 66 shot poorly...
Low and behold when I got home some 125 truncated cone Rimrock bullets I had ordered showed up. I decided to load a few with the same Trail Boss load in the same brass (357 Remington) as a comparison.
Massively more accurate than the flat point round nose. I was really shocked. The one flier on the right target I believe was me. Just shooting off a field rest.
(http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af248/JeffinTD/IMG_0618_zpshhbtrei1.jpg)
Anyhoo, I don't think I'll be needing to return the rifle to Winchester, and I went ahead and ordered the sight, screws, blank, and a spring for my Stoeger coach gun. It will be interesting to fire the rifle from a proper bench with that load. I guess my gun just doesn't like 158 RNFP or 158 SWC. At all.
Thanks again for all the great info and replies.
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Nice rifle!! Great to hear you won't be sending it back to Winchester. The wood is very nice. I will keep 125 grain in mind. I haven't bought any ammo for mine yet. I have a gun show to attend tomorrow in Springfield, MO. I may check out some ammo there.
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Must be bad tooling or something. Miroku generally builds top notch guns.
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Yeah it's a really nicely made gun, and I really couldn't understand why I couldn't find anything that would shoot accurately out of it.
I'd tried a range of Trail Boss and those 158rnfp, Universal, 2400, and Blue Dot. 357 and 38 brass. Oregon trail and Greimer 158 swc loads with Bullseye. Most wouldn't hold 4" at 25 yards.
I've had guns that shot a particular weight bulliet, or even a particular bullet with better accuracy, but never such an extreme example.
I guess I'll be ordering a few thousand of those 125 tc bullets. Can't find more trail boss so I may see how they shoot with universal clays.
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Are you shooting hard cast bullets, if so you may find softer bullets like desparado bullets from cowboybullets.com work better.
Just a thought, worth about as much as you paid for the advice. My rifle seems to like them enough to hold 4 inches at 100, which with a short barrel and 65 year old eyes is not too shabby for a first attempt at finding a good load.
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I've only shot hard cast out of it, from several brands, plus I played with some jacketed hollow points.
I might have to try some soft bullets.
Anyway, it seems to like those lighter truncated cone bullets fairly well, and I'm ok with their accuracy.
Have a Dillon 1050 set up for that load, but I never seem to have time to go shoot (plus there isn't a decent range close by anymore).