Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => The Powder Room - CAS reloading => Topic started by: ndnchf on October 16, 2013, 12:02:49 PM
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I’m a sucker for the odd and unusual, and this one is indeed that. It’s a Remington rolling block, made in the late 1860s. At that time there was a pile of surplus Civil War muskets available dirt cheap. In the post-war economy, Remington was looking for a way to build rifles at the lowest possible cost. So they acquired a bunch of old model 1861 and 1863 Springfield muskets, cut them up and mated all the parts to their large rolling block actions. This included the barrel, stocks and almost all the small parts.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/58RB-2_zps8c49f144.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/58RB-2_zps8c49f144.jpg.html)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/58RB-8_zpsc32b7de8.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/58RB-8_zpsc32b7de8.jpg.html)
Many had their barrels sleeved to .50 cal and chambered in either .50 Govt. or .50 Ccarbine….but not all. This one retains its original .58 caliber musket bore. Remington cut the breech end off of these barrels, threaded them to the rolling block action and then chambered them for several different .58 caliber metallic cartridges. After a lot of measuring, research and help of the Remington Society folks, we’ve determined that this one is chambered in .58 Roberts. The chamber is a little longer than the .58 Carbine round, but shorter than the .58 Berdan.
Here is an original .58 Roberts cartridge:
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/58roberts-2_zpse3969e2e.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/58roberts-2_zpse3969e2e.jpg.html)
So this will be a new adventure in loading. I have some lathe turned cases coming from the seller and am considering different bullet and mold options. If anyone has experience loading the .58 Roberts, or any .58 metallic cartridges, I’d sure like to hear your experiences and advice.
More to come… ;D
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Were these just for the domestic market? Remington sold huge numbers of these guns overseas.
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Were these just for the domestic market? Remington sold huge numbers of these guns overseas.
I'm no expert, but from what I've been reading, they were sold to state militias and on the open market. Then during the Franco-Prussion war, I think many went overseas. The .58 Roberts was a cartridge developed by General Roberts for use in his Roberts breechloading conversion that was evaluated by the US military, but not accepted. However, many of those were sold on the open market as well. The cartridge must have caught on to a small extent. My rifle has had a hard life on the outside, but the bore is excellent. I would suspect that it was carried and maybe drilled with a lot, but not fired much. When it was shot, it was properly cleaned afterwards. So it has the potential to be a good shooter.
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There's a drawing of it in Herschel Logan's "Cartridges": 620 g bullet, 60 g powder.
As for loading it, you may have to be the one to write the book on that; can't be more exasperating than making 32 Long cases!
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620gr bullet? I would expect that to keyhole in this 1-72 twist barrel. I'm thinking about as light a bullet as possible to get it to stabilize. It will be a similar challenge as the .32 Colt, but on a larger scale!
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Ndnchf, how close are the dimensions of this to a 577 Snyder? There is brass available for that, and they also use brass 24 ga shotshells to form brass. I would think any .58 Minnie bullet would work, unless this one also needs a heel base. If so, I really doubt if Bernie would have a crimp tool for it!
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577 Snider is the best case to make it from, although this is a shorter, straight taper case. But 577 Snider cases are hard to find also. 24ga brass shell are a possibility, but I'd prefer a sold head case if possible.
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I wonder how big the chamber neck is cut on one of these? Got to thinking, while it should shoot a Minne bullet, since after all it's a rifle-musket barrel, was it originally loaded with one, or was it more of a groove diameter bullet? If the bore diameter is something like .580, then groove would be closer to .590 or more, I would think. I have read of Snyder shooters using a .600 round ball with good results. But it would depend on if the chamber is cut large enough to seat a larger diameter bullet in the case. If you use anything other than a mine, it would probably be a custom order mold.
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My rifle's groove diameter is .594". The previous owner shot round ball, but that is not what I want to do. I don't just want to make it go bang, I want to see what it can do. Some folks use minies in the .58 Berdan and Snider, but from what I've read they are not all that accurate. I believe the best way to go is to have a custom mold made for a .595" bullet and one that is as short and light as possible in order to stabilize in the very slow 1-72 twist. While heavier and longer minies were originally muzzle loaded in these barrels, the slow twist was not ideal for their accuracy. From what I've read, the 1-72 twist was a compromise of bullet stabality vs ease of loading and minimizing bullet drift due to the spin. At least that was the theory back then. These rifles were never intended for target work. So I'm not expecting the same accuracy as I get out of my Shiloh Sharps. But I think 4"-5", 100 yard groups are a possibility with the right load. But only time will tell. The fun is not in the destination, but getting there ;D
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ndnchf,
Look here for lots of info on Snider bullets & molds.
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/forums/2/Snider-Enfield-Forum#.Um15zirn85
Seamus
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Thanks Seamus - will do.
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577 Snider is the best case to make it from, although this is a shorter, straight taper case. But 577 Snider cases are hard to find also. 24ga brass shell are a possibility, but I'd prefer a sold head case if possible.
Here is a case dimension chart that might be of interest;
http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/riflelist2.htm NOTE: Scroll to the bottom to find a selection of charts by type or caliber range,
I would say that the 24 ga. Magtechs would be strong enough as I don't think the case would accept more than about 50 grains of a slow gunpowder.
NEI have a .592 roundball mould. Might get one myself for my Snider 3 band Mk III rifle.
http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog.html
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Thanks Sir Charles, that's a handy reference chart. I'm hoping to get the Rocky Mountain Cartridge Company lathe made cases for it soon and hope they will work with the bullet size I want. if not, the 24 gauge Magtech brass may be the way to go.
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Accurate has several molds in the right range (http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=15)
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Accurate has several molds in the right range (http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=15)
Yes, I've been looking at their catalog. They make some nice molds. With the 1-72 twist, I need something as short and light as possible. Thanks
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I finally received the .58 Roberts lathe turned cases . Unfortunately, some of them had been fired with black powder and then not cleaned, so they were pretty corroded and nasty. But most are in good usable shape. The problem with these is the case mouth thickness, about .025” - .027”. There is no way I can get a groove diameter bullet into these cases without modification. Groove size is about .594”, the case ID is around .578” - .580”. I can use an expanding minie’ ball, but really prefer to get a custom mould for a short, groove diameter bullet. But while waiting for the cases I ordered some .590” diameter minie’ balls to start out with. But these would not fit into the case. Well, I have a very old, well used bench lathe. So I set up a case in the lathe and inside turned the case mouth to about .594”. I’m not a machinist by any stretch of the imagination, but I managed to get one case done as a trial. The minie’ ball slipped in nicely and the round chambers – so far, so good. After I decide on the bullet design and diameter I want to use, I’ll order a chucking reamer of the appropriate size to ream the case mouths.
Here is a shot of the .58 Roberts dummy round with a .56-50 Spencer to its left and an empty .58 case and minie’ ball to its right. Coincidentally, the Spencer and Roberts cases are nearly the same length. The Roberts cases are 1.330”, the Spencer is 1.356”.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/58compare_zps18f28a84.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/58compare_zps18f28a84.jpg.html)
I always thought the .56-50 Spencer was a big round, but next to the mighty .58 Roberts, it looks down right puny :o :o The next step will be to decide on a bullet design and order a mold from Accurate Molds.
This is going to be a fun ride!
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Well, you could always go with a heel base bullet, and not turn the cases. Now that you're used to dealing with heel base, that is ;D
How many of the lathe turned cases did you get? if there's just a few, might be better to get a regular supply of cases before making a custom mold that will only work with the turned ones. Maybe it might work well with one of the light "target" mine bullets they have now, I think some are about 350-375 gr.
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I hadn't thought about a heeled bullet for this, but you may have something there. I have 40 of the thick cases. It will be a lot of work to ream all those. I could also try making cases from the 24 gauge brass shotgun shells. They are much thinner, but not as strong either. I'll have to look into all the options.
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I made some good progress today. First I found a 19/32” drill bit in my stash, which equates to .5938”. I figured that would make it much easier to bore the cases to accept the .590” minies I have. So I drilled out 4 to make a total of 5 usable cases.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/drillingcase_zps94d061fd.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/drillingcase_zps94d061fd.jpg.html)
The next challenge was to load these with no appropriate equipment. No dies, shell holder, bullet sizer or priming tool. It took a while but I finally got 5 rounds loaded with 50 gr of Goex 2F. Yeah I know the bullets aren’t all seated to the same depth, but they will serve to test fire the rifle. I plan to get dies made for it, but at least for now, I can make thunder and lightning with it.
Here are the 5 rounds of .58 Roberts next to a .32 Long Colt for comparison.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/5rounds_zps19472b77.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/5rounds_zps19472b77.jpg.html)
I hope to get to the range this week and try them out. Stay tuned for an update ;D
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I went to the range today and fired the rifle for the first time. The rifle functioned fine and I was pretty happy with the results of my first 5 cobbled together cartridges. I fired them at 50 yards off a rest. Windage was right on. The group was nothing great, but it did group ;D The bullets seem to stabilize well as the holes were nice and round. It showed that the minie balls were expanding and gripped the rifling well. The trigger pull is very heavy, probably 15lbs or better. The front sight is so worn, its really just a nub. So really accurate shooting is not likely. But the cool factor and style points of the mighty .58 Roberts are hard to beat 8)
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/IMG00940-20131105-1549_zps72384c56.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/IMG00940-20131105-1549_zps72384c56.jpg.html)
The next loading I may try Swiss or Old Eynsford. Boy - this is a fun piece of history to play with!
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Ndnchf: I for one am terrifically impressed with your Roberts. I did not know it even existed until this thread. If you can tell me the base and rim dimensions, I can tell you if CBC/Magtech 24-gauge brass can be made to work. This brass is widely used as a basis for .577-450 and .577 Snider, and at about $1 per case, it is relatively affordable.
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Here is a cut'npaste from the table I linked above;
58 Roberts B 0.612 1.37 0.741 0.610 - 0.656 1.90 - 1870
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Sir Charles - thanks for posting those specs. I’ve been doing a lot of research and actually found 3 different sets of .58 Roberts specs, all vary slightly.
Bill - my rifle's chamber is:
Rim - .775"
Head - .660"
Neck - .635"
length - 1.400"
The RMC cases I have are 1.330” long and we’re made from a chamber cast, so they fit real well. I've got about 35 good RMC cases. It seems to have pretty generous headspace and I’m a bit concerned about using the thin skinned 24 gauge shells in it. I know a lot of Snider shooters use them. If I didn’t have these cases, I would probably try them. But for now I’ll stick with these, as they were made for the chamber. I have ordered a 19/32 reamer to open up the case mouths, which should work better than the drill bit. I’ve come up with a way to neck size the cases, prime and deprime. So I think I can avoid spending several hundred dollars on loading dies. At least for the time being.
I’ve got 6 cases loaded with 55gr of Old Eynsford and the .590”, 480gr minie’, and am leaving work in a couple hours and heading for the range. Also bringing along my Uberti 1876 in .50-95. It’s a day for big bore fun!
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ndnchf, that is a very Cool project.It is great to see you bring that old war horse back to life. Them dang holes are so big I can see down range through em. My Gawd. ,,,,,Dusty
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Thanks Dusty, it is a lot of fun. I went out today and shot my loads with 55gr of 2F Old Eynsford at 50 yards. The results were disappointing. Windage was good, but a large vertical spread. The holes are nice and round, so they are not key holeing. I really think the problem is twofold. 1. - a badly worn front sight, the blade is essentially worn off and only a nub of sorts remains. So it is really hard to get a good sight picture. I'll have to think about what can be done with it. 2. - The trigger pull is extremely heavy. Its the worst of any rifle I've fired in over 40 years of shooting. Its got to be at least 15 - 20 lbs. I may get another hammer and trigger spring, lighten them and swap them out.
I think the trigger pull is contributing to the vertical stringing. I'm pulling so hard on it, that the muzzle is bobbing up and down. Lots of excuses I know, but it is fun trying. Here is the ugly truth.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/55grOledE_zps16201747.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/55grOledE_zps16201747.jpg.html)
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I would bet that 15-20 lb. trigger pull,has a whole lot to do with the vertical stringing. Wonder what is the norm for accuracy with this old warhorse? A big bore ,a nubbin of a sight and a trigger pull like that ,well look's like it's doin purty good,Amigo.,,,Dusty
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Ndnchf: I just put my calipers on a CBC/Magtech 24-gauge case, and I get a rim diameter of .720, rim thickness of .051 and a head diametervof .661. The cases come at 2.5 inches long, so plenty to play with there. The only examples I have left are already sized down to .577-450 for the Martini, or I would send you a couple to mess with. I just sent off two boxes along with a Snider I sold.
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Bill - thanks for checking and the offer. But I made some good progress today.
The 19/32” (.5938”) reamer I bought off Ebay for $10 arrived yesterday. So today I set the reamer up in the lathe ready to bore the cases. But first I wanted to make sure all the cases I was going to do were the same size at the mouth. A couple weeks ago I was looking around for something I could use to size the case a little bit. Digging through a box of bronze bushings I found one that had a .636” ID. That was perfect! So I slightly polished the entrance to the bushing so it would start on a case. I was able to neck size the case by placing the bushing on the case and running it up through the 7/8” hole in the top of my press, then knocking the case out of the bushing with a dowel.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/necksizer_zps5bb32246.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/necksizer_zps5bb32246.jpg.html)
So I sized the 6 cases I had made before by drilling and another 20 cases, for a total of 26. After I had the necks consistent, I set each one up in the lathe, centered it and then reamed them 1/2” deep.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/Reamingcase_zps7727c539.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/Reamingcase_zps7727c539.jpg.html)
So I now have 26 cases reamed to .5938”. For the time being I’m using the .590” minie’ balls, so they will be a little loose in the case. But that’s ok for now. The rifle’s groove size is .594”. I want to order a mold from Accurate Molds for a short .595” diameter bullet. After the cases are fired they will expand .001 - .002”, which should result in a case mouth around .595”+/- .001”, which will be perfect for the new bullets. By neck sizing with my bushing, I should be able to get a nice snug fit for the new bullet. Well, that’s my plan. We’ll see how it goes.
This is really an odd and obscure project. I imagine very few of the folks on this forum have any interest in it. But for the few of you who have been following this and offered advice and encouragement, I really appreciate it. It’s pretty unlikely that anyone else will be reloading the .58 Roberts anytime soon. But I hope by documenting what I am doing here on the forum, perhaps in the future someone else will pick up one and search for information. I hope this may be of some help to that person in the future.
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I made a little more progress today, but let me backtrack first. A couple weeks ago I found a fellow who would make me a push through bullet sizer die for my reloading press for a very reasonable price. So I ordered one sized .591” to clean up the minies I bought. They are nominally .590”, but they are cast in an old mold and have a little misalignment and flashing which makes them run up to .594” at some points of measurement. So the die rounds them all to .591”. It arrived a couple days ago. But it didn’t come with a pusher, so I made one on the lathe out of 5/8” aluminum stock. I sized 25 bullets and it worked great.
The next issue was to make a compression plug. I really lucked out in that my CH4D .50-95 expander die body was large enough for the .58 Roberts case to slip in. So I went to the hardware store and bought a 5/8” fine thread bolt which matches the CH4D die body. I cut the head off and then turned the shank down to about .585”. After a little grinding and thread clean up it fit nicely into the die body. I bought a thin nut at the same time, so I drilled and tapped it for a set screw to lock the plug in place. I now have a nice compression plug for the .58.
So I proceeded to load up 25 rounds. 10 with 60gr of Goex 2F, 10 with 60gr of Old Eynesford 2F and 5 with 63gr of Swiss 2F. I compressed the powder to a depth of .345”, which was about .100” of compression. Then hand seated the bullets. Overall cartridge length is 1.950”.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/25rounds_zpsd3c5eb7c.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/25rounds_zpsd3c5eb7c.jpg.html)
I’m not real satisfied with these bullets, but it was the best I could get to start with until I get a custom mold made. Later this week, I’m going to see if I can improve the badly worn front sight in a non-permanent way.
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I’m going to see if I can improve the badly worn front sight in a non-permanent way.
Getting a sharp, highly visible front sight is more critical, I think, than anything you can do with the ammo, so if you're not willing to file the original into a better shape, I'd think about clamping on a broad, undercut blade behind the original, high enough to block out the original. Don't know if epoxy would withstand the recoil, but I've heard of an epoxy brand called Black Max that some are using to attach scope blocks to a barrel they don't want to drill & tap.
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Epoxy and a piece of brass is what I was thinking of using. Like you said, setting it in front of the original sight. I was going to work on it today. But I really needed to service my lathe. So I spent most of the day taking it apart, cleaning out chips, lubericating everything and putting it back together adjusting gibs and aligning the tailstock. Its all done and ready for many more years of service. I'll try to work on the sight this week.
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I made a temporary front sight out of JB weld and a piece of brass, but got it set too far to the right, so the rifle shoots left now. Dagnabbit >:( I went to the range today and tried three different loads all using the .590" 480gr minie bullet. 10 with 60gr of Goex 2F, 10 with 60gr of Olde Eynesford 2F and 5 with 63gr of Swiss 2F. The load with 60gr of Old Eynesford 2F was the best. I'm still gettting vertical stringing, but I havent done anything about the aweful trigger pull, so I'm not surprised. This is 6 shots at 50 yards. 5 out of 6 grouped in about 4" on the left and one renegade at 12 O'clock. Another fun day at the range.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/60groldE_zpsf7a6886d.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/60groldE_zpsf7a6886d.jpg.html)
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I went back to the range today with 10 rounds. I decided to try filling the minie's cavity with bullet lube to see it that would help keep the fouling soft and improve accuracy. I filled each bullet with lube, then placed a wax paper wad on the base to keep the lube out of the powder.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/greasefilledminie_zpsc51205ed.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/greasefilledminie_zpsc51205ed.jpg.html)
I loaded 60gr of Olde Eynsford, compressed about .100" to a depth of .345" and then hand seated the bullet. This load did keep the fouling softer, but made no marked increase in accuracy. This 5 hot group is about 4.5". If I don’t count the shot to the far right, it’s about 3.5".
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/50yardsgreasefilled_zpsf0cf4a2c.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/50yardsgreasefilled_zpsf0cf4a2c.jpg.html)
I'm beginning to think that with the slow 1-72” twist, I’m getting about all the accuracy I can out of this minie’ bullet. If nothing else, it consistently groups in the 4” – 5” range with a variety of loads. If I want it to shoot better, I may have to get a custom mold. But I still have 100 of these minies, so I”ll see what can be done with them. If nothing else, It’s a lot of fun. Playing show and tell at the range is always interesting.
I was shooting my little .32 long colt #4 rolling block today also. Its weird going back and forth between the big and small rolling blocks. The contrast is enormous.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/58vs32_zps27f622f6.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/58vs32_zps27f622f6.jpg.html)
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Time for an update. I was fortunate to obatain a few sample bullets from a fellow who had a Steve Brooks adjustable custom mold made for his .58 Berdan roller. The mold is adjustable for length, throwing both a 400gr and a 560gr bullet. He sent me 10 of each. Their OD is .596", .006" larger than the minies I had been using.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/Long_shortbrooksbullets_zps2d603719.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/Long_shortbrooksbullets_zps2d603719.jpg.html)
I was able to load the short bullet with 60gr of Olde E 2F. But with the long bullet I could only get in 47gr. With the slow 1-72 twist, I expect the short bullet will shoot better. But I won't know until i get to the range. But I have high hopes!
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/Brooksbulletloadcropped_zpsade22f9c.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/Brooksbulletloadcropped_zpsade22f9c.jpg.html)
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Not sure what you finally did to get your Rolling Block shooting, but just for your info the Mag Tech shotgun brass is used all the time to make .577 Snider and .577/450 Martini Henry rounds so should be strong enough for you RB without any problem, as for the terrible tgrigger pull that is a problem that most of the military RB's shared and can be improved by replacing the main spring and trigger return spring with new ones from rollingblockparts.com. I have replaced the springs in all of my military RB's and it greatly improved the trigger pull. Good luck, you have a great rifle there.
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I have lathe turned cases from Rocky Mountain Cartridge company that work perfectly and are much stronger than the thin magtech shotgun shells. I may work on or replace the springs, but I'd prefer to keep it all original. But either way, its a lot of fun to shoot. I haven't had it to the range in a while, just too cold and snowy. But hopefully it won't be much longer.
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Greetings!
I'm really enjoying watching you create and develop your .58 Roberts cartridges! And I thought that
I was the only Obsolete Arms/Ammo Nut out there!
Your vertical stringing may be due to your inability to neck size / crimp your lathe-turned brass; you may
be able to control that by, A) casting Very Soft, and/or B) putting spacer wads in your case, until you can
seat the cartridge with the bullet just touching the rifling leade. Another option would be to paper patch the
minies to increase their diameter (and thus, tighter case neck grip), and dip them in melted lube. Of course,
you could use brass (or, possibly plastic) 24ga. shells, but You seem to have been harassed enough over that!
Godspeed!
Be Well!
M.T.Marfield
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I seem to remember that the British ended up issuing 2 bullet weights for the Snider, a 480 grain and a 525 grain bullet. They were issued to match the 1/78” or 1/48” twist in the Sniders, but I cannot remember which goes with which,
http://www.enfield-snider.com/Snider.htm
http://zoneballistic.com/colinsballistics/snidercartridge.html
This one gives the cartridge and bullet dimension for the long pattern Sniders, with 1/72’ twist.
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/3066/LOC-1448-Cartridge-Ball-Boxer-for-Snider-Rifles-Pat-2#.U0q48fTn_cs
or http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/3063/LOC-1328-Cartridges-Boxer-Ball-and-Blank-for-Snider#.U0q3rPTn_cs
HTH
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Sail; Longer bullets require a faster twist.
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Thanks for your interestest fellas. I haven't had the rifle out to the range in a couple months. Just been up to my ears in other projects and winter weather. The lack of a firm crimp could be contributing to the vertical stringing. The bullets are a firm fit, but not crimped. But another contributing factor is that the front sight is badly worn down, almost to a nub. So getting a consistent sight picture is difficult. Not to mention the heavy trigger pull. The rifle is well worn on the outside, but the inside and bore are excellent, leading me to believe it was used as a drill rifle for many years. If it could talk, the stories it could tell!
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I took the big roller out the other day and tried the long and short bullets from the Steve Brooks mold. To my surprise, the longer bullets grouped better than the shorter ones. But accuracy was still not great, about 4" @ 50 yards. It did help to wipe between shots. I don't really expect this to be a tackdriver, but rather just a historical oddity from the early days of cartridge development. But dang, it sure is cool to shoot. ;D
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Well it's been over a year since I last gave an update. You know how life, family and job interferes with fun sometimes.
Previously I mentioned the very heavy trigger pull on this rifle. This week I set out to improve it. It took a while to get the badly buggered up tang screw out, but it finally came out. This allowed be to remove the trigger plate. It was nasty deep down in there. I got it all apart and cleaned up. As expected, the trigger spring was very heavy and strong. First I tried putting a couple washers under the spring to lighten it. It helped a little, but not much. So I then decided to make a new spring from an old hacksaw blade ( a tip I read on another forum). The hacksaw blade already had a small hole in the end which could be used for attaching the spring. After cutting, grinding and shaping, it was installed and tested. It made a huge improvement! It returns the trigger smartly, but doesn't take magilla gorilla to pull it now. Hopefully this will help with the vertical stringing problem.
Next I turned to the cartridges. I decided to try something a bit different - paper patching. All I have are the. 590" minies to work with and I know they are a little undersize. I found that using. 002" onionskin I could bring up the OD to. 598". It's a snug fit, but I can load these in the fired and unsized cases.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/IMG_20150726_092703_edit_zpsvgpewjbe.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/IMG_20150726_092703_edit_zpsvgpewjbe.jpg.html)
I filled the bullet cavity with lube and loaded them up over 60gr of old E 2F. Hopefully I can get to the range this week and try them out.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/IMG_20150726_100707_edit_zps1rm3uwct.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/IMG_20150726_100707_edit_zps1rm3uwct.jpg.html)
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Somehow I missed this when you started a couple of years ago. This is a very interesting project. Thanks for keeping us informed!
CC Griff
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Looking forward to seeing how the patch bullets shoot. They sure look good!,,,,,,DT
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I just realized that I hadn't posted an update after trying the paper patched bullets. Well - they did not work well at all. It was more of a pattern than a group.
But after replacing the trigger spring and weighing the minies and grouping like weight bullets together, the groups tightened up a good bit.
(http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y493/ndnchf/BPCR/RRBat50_zps8d7944f6.jpg) (http://s1277.photobucket.com/user/ndnchf/media/BPCR/RRBat50_zps8d7944f6.jpg.html)
In a further effort to improve things, I just sent a Lyman 575 minie mold off to have the bands enlarged to. 594". That should give me a perfectly fitting bullet.
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Wonderful journey! Thanks for bringing us along ....
Feathering the trigger spring does a lot to lessen the trigger pull of a rolling block.
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Greetings!
Please, continue to update us! I've moved to Colorado, and my reloading goodies are in temporary mothballs,
but I'll be getting back in gear, soon!
Be Well!
M.T.Marfield
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It has been a while since the last update. I appreciate the interest. I had the Lyman minie mold enlarged to .594" and it casts a nice bullet. They are a tight fit in the shell, so I reamed case ID another .001". I've been sidetracked lately with other guns, so I haven't taken it to the range with the new, larger bullet. But I hope to get out soon. I'll post an update when I do.