Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => Zoot Shooters => Topic started by: Border Ruffian on November 04, 2011, 06:00:42 PM
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Interesting gun for Zoot shooting. Could serve as a pistol, and a rifle with the shoulder stock attached.
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj32/WilliamTheConqueror/IMG_1544.jpg)
Hard to believe the design is 115 years old!!
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If ya put the stock on don't wrap your thumb over the top like normal.When that bolt recoils back it'll take the hide off where they ain't much hide. ;D Don't ask how I know. :P
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Just as a note, apparently British Director/Actor Richard Attenbourorgh owns a C96 with "WLS Churchill" engraved on it. He's apparently owned it since 1971 and it was used for some scenes in the movie "Young Winston". I don't know if this is true, if anyone knows a scource please pass it on! Mr Attenbourogh is 88 years old and in a wheelchair, but quite sharp mentally and lucid.
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JimBob
I'm trying to make sense out of your comment re: using the shoulder stock .... whaddya mean?
Border Uffian
That's 'SIR' Richard Attenborugh, if you please. He was Knighted by HRH Queen Elizabeth II long ago.
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If you wrap your thumb over the stock at the pistol grip - the hammer 'will' remove hide from the skin fold that's exposed.
It's like shooting an '03 Springfield and putting your thumb over the stock at the wrist - suddenly, you'll wonder why your nose is bleeding, because the recoil gets transmitted to the thumb and then contacts your nose.
Best to rest the thumb along the side of the piece, where it stays out of the way.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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If you wrap your thumb over the stock at the pistol grip - the hammer 'will' remove hide from the skin fold that's exposed.
It's like shooting an '03 Springfield and putting your thumb over the stock at the wrist - suddenly, you'll wonder why your nose is bleeding, because the recoil gets transmitted to the thumb and then contacts your nose.
Best to rest the thumb along the side of the piece, where it stays out of the way.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
What he says PJ. I wasn't very clear.Anybody out there know something about German WW1 unit markings?The one I have is unit marked.
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I've got a pristine 1903 Springfield, so I'm familiar with getting my thumb out of the way. A couple of smacks on the nose is a good teacher!
I'm looking at a photo of Simon Ward who played "Young Winston" in the movie. He is holding the C/96 Mauser left-handed, hammer cocked. He had suffered a sabre injury, hence the 'weak handed' mode. The safety has been applied and the bolt would appear to be well above the web of his hand.
Also in a back issue of Guns & Ammo 'Surplus Firearms' magazine, Dennis Adler is shown shooting his C/96 with and without shoulder stock. He appears to have large hands and yet with the hammer cocked, it does not look like he is in danger of the web of his hand being hit by it, much less the bolt.
He does, however, mention that recoil batters the web of the hand against the square edges of the frame, commenting "If any gun needed a better grip design, this was it!" I can't see how aligning one's thumb on the right side of the frame will alleviate this battering.
So, I'm wondering what you guys know about holding/shooting the C/96 Mauser that I don't know. I have a pal with a "Red Nine' C/96 c/w shoulder stock. I'll give him a call later this evening and get his opinion.
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Simple - holding the piece 'with' the stock in place changes the hand's position.
In so doing, the hand comes into closer contact with the recoiling mechanism, because it rides up.
Give it a try yourself - Band-Aids are common.
Scouts Out!
As to Imperial German markings - send me a PM - I may be able to help.
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As to Imperial German markings - send me a PM - I may be able to help.
PM sent.
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Answered.
Vaya,
Scouts Out!
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JimBob stated that the bolt of the Mauser C/96would come back and bitecha. St. George states that the hammer/"recoiling mechanism" (?) will getcha.
I say there's no way in hell that the bolt of this pistol will make contact with your shooting hand unless you're doing something incredibly stupid. As for 'hammer bite', maybe, but Adler (with large hands) did not report on it in his article.
I haven't handled my buddie's 'Red Nine' for a few years (I may swap it from him ...) but I don't recall the hammer being an issue.
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JimBob stated that the bolt of the Mauser C/96would come back and bitecha. St. George states that the hammer/"recoiling mechanism" (?) will getcha.
I say there's no way in hell that the bolt of this pistol will make contact with your shooting hand unless you're doing something incredibly stupid. As for 'hammer bite', maybe, but Adler (with large hands) did not report on it in his article.
I haven't handled my buddie's 'Red Nine' for a few years (I may swap it from him ...) but I don't recall the hammer being an issue.
Get yourself a C96,put the stock on the pistol,wrap your thumb over the top of the stock with other four fingers around grip.It might not get you but as we're not clones it did get me.That was 30 years ago and I still remember.Whether the bolt or hammer I disremember exactly but it sure hurt like h*ll at the time. :)
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I just watched two 'YouTube' videos of Mauser C/96 Broomhandles being fired - one with and one without shoulder stock.
In the one 'with', the shooter takes the gun out of the wooden holster and assembles them, loads it with a clip and proceeds to fire it to 'lock back'. I'd say he has average size hands and used a 'normal' pistol grip, thumb on the on the left side of the gun. The view is full on side, an excellent view of the gun in operation with ball ammo.
There is no way the hammer, safety or bolt is going to make contact with the shooter's hand unless he is doing something incredibly stupid (like I said earlier). There is scads of clearance.
In the video 'without', the shooter is wearing black leather gloves and STILL has more than adequate clearance from the hammer and bolt.
I also read a few verbal shooting impressions of the C/96 and none reported the problem you had.
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My old man,god rest his soul,always said I was one of a kind. ;D
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Regarding contact to the hand on the stock. It can happen!
For me, it was the first time I used my stock just a few months ago. The hammer came back and nailed me on the bone at the base of my thumb. It was bruised for weeks!
I guess it depends upon the size / placement of your thumb. You just need to make sure that nothing is under the arc of the hammer!
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Much to my regret I am confirming the experience of St. George & Injun Ryder.
The hammer bites nicely when the shoulder stock is attached.
Long Johns Wolf
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Gentlemen
I'm not dismissing your experience. Check out the YouTube videos I mentioned and learn what you might be doing to cause the problem.
I'm trying to decide how many guns it's going to cost me to negotiate that 'Red Nine' away from my buddy ...... ;>)
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I'm not dismissing your experience. Check out the YouTube videos I mentioned and learn what you might be doing to cause the problem.
Might maybe be whether the pistol has the "large ring" hammer or the "small ring" hammer too.The C96 that bit me was an early cone hammer which has the large hammer.One of those videos shows a fellow shooting a 712 has his thumb laying alongside the stock.
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One of my buddies has a Chinese export Inglis-made Browning Hi-Power with the same wooden shoulder stock as the C/96 Mauser.
Next time I see him I'm going to ask if he ever experienced 'hammer bite" while shooting it with the stock attached.
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One of my buddies has a Chinese export Inglis-made Browning Hi-Power with the same wooden shoulder stock as the C/96 Mauser.
Next time I see him I'm going to ask if he ever experienced 'hammer bite" while shooting it with the stock attached.
I think you'll find even with the stock mounted on the HP your thumb position is still in the same place on the grip as without the stock,below the spur on the frame well out of the way of the slide and hammer.
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Got my "hammer bite" from a stocked small hammer version C96.
Long Johns Wolf
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I keep one hangin around :) Here it is-
(http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv236/kragbolo/BroomhandledMauser-1.jpg)
It's the model used by Clint Eastwood in "Joe Kidd"
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ChillBebop/JKC96-6.jpg)
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OOO, I'l bet he hit a long way to the right with that shot.
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OOO, I'l bet he hit a long way to the right with that shot.
Ha Ha! Good eye Colonel! And anything you do wrong with your grip and trigger pull on these Mauser Military Automatics is magnified many times more than a mistake with a more "conventional" pistol.
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My last gun of 2012. I'd always wanted a C96, and in a cruel twist of fate my local gun shop acquired two and I was forced to buy one. I guess if you wanted to pick nits it's a rebored M-30, but...close enough.
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/9659/80213283.jpg)
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7473/83279302.jpg)
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That one in 9mm looks very nice John. Border Ruffian's seems to be a fine looking pre war commercial.
I had mine relined in .30 Mauser by Redmans and they did a fantastic job.
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i'm a broom collector, a few years ago there was a lot of seller and bolot 7.63 mauser ammo sold by navy arms. i see it a gun shows all the time. that ammo is to hot for the c-96. things brake on you broom shooting it.it cheap so i got a die set and a rcbs bullet puller. i pull the bullet dump the powder and reload with 6.5 grains unique. replace the bullet and reseat with the crimping die. the ammo shoot great , i use it in all my brooms (i have 8 now) no problems and gun shoot perfect. just wanted to warn you new guys getting in to brooms. the seller and bolot ammo comes in 25 round little blue green cardboard boxes with a white label that just says 7.63 mauser pistol.remember that they are old guns. there fun but you have to take care. kurt250
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Hi new here, but owner of a .30 Bolo and have to say the new Prvi partisan stuff shot well in my little beast.
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Hi new here, but owner of a .30 Bolo and have to say the new Prvi partisan stuff shot well in my little beast.
That's great to know! BTW Welcome!
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I doubt Churchill's C96 is anywhere too easy to find. Winston lost it during a train wreck while working as a war correspondent after the Boer War and prior to WWI. He credits living trough the aftermath because he was dressed as a civilian and was unarmed when the enemy arrived. He purchased a 1911 Colt from Colt's London Armoury in 1914. He carried it throughout WWI and even known to carry it in his great coat pocket through WWII.
The story is in the Winston Churchill Museum in England as well as his bio.
Birdshot
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In addition to Churchill's 1911 story, when the War broke out, his bodyguard was carrying some sort of pea shooter. Churchill gave him his 1911. When he found out the guard wasn't carrying t, he took it back and carried it himself for the rest of the war!
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The current issue of "Man At Arms" magazine has an article on the "Persian Contract" '96 Broomhandles. Might be of interest to some.
Also info on the 9mm models produced during the Weimar Republik, contrary to the provisions of the Versailles Treaty.
I balked at buying my buddy's 'Red 9' when he asked $2500 for it! It's got a slightly pitted and grey bore and a crack in the shoulder stock from drying out.
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PJ, thank you for that update, I will have to pick that up! :D
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Finally found a "lost" article that every C96 owner will like.
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?sa0245iva2p69i2
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;D Quick heads up, Numrich has C96 stripper clips in stock again! Just picked some up and they are in very good mechanical shape. Some surface rust bust good to use.
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I too own a C96 Mauser. Its a pre-WW1 or wartime gun that has been rode hard and put up wet. The good thing is it is all matching and has an original stock with it. The bore is gone, I call it my .30 caliber shotgun. I have contemplated having the bore relined and then having it reblued. I know I have the option of .30 Mauser or 9mm. Any suggestions on having it rechambered or not? I am leaning towards 9mm and only shooting subsonic or downloaded 9mm.
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I too own a C96 Mauser. Its a pre-WW1 or wartime gun that has been rode hard and put up wet. The good thing is it is all matching and has an original stock with it. The bore is gone, I call it my .30 caliber shotgun. I have contemplated having the bore relined and then having it reblued. I know I have the option of .30 Mauser or 9mm. Any suggestions on having it rechambered or not? I am leaning towards 9mm and only shooting subsonic or downloaded 9mm.
Re-post your question in the Barracks. I'm pretty sure there is at least one GAF member that has had his relined.
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I just picked up my second Broomhandle today.
Found one with an 20 round extended magazine! I understand that these are very hard to find, so I knew I had to have it.
And I bless the former owner who had it rather poorly refinished, as it allowed me to obtain a nice shooter for only $600.00!
Sadly, the shoulder stock I have from my other Broomhandle won't fit it, so I'm gonna have to hunt for one that will. Oh joy of joys THAT is gonna be....
And, this just might let me make it to Colorado in a few months afterall...
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I've been interested in buying a Mauser broomhandle for a long time but don't know much about them. I see a few at the local gun show and they are around $700 - $900. Is the ammo available and are stripper clips available?
I Don't want to buy one only to find out that I can't get the ammo and clips to use with it.
Also, what should I check for when looking for my first Broomhandle?
Thanks.
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Okay, you will find two calibers, the 7.63 Mauser and 9mm. The easy way to tell them apart is that most 9s have a red 9 carved into the grips. PRVI is now loading the 7.63 in Boxer brass and shoots well in my Bolo. The 9s will run on most 115 to 124 grain fmj ammo. Wolff still makes springs for the Broomie and I would replace the springs before shooting. Check the bores and hopefully you will find one that still has good rifling. DO NOT pay extra for a Nazi marked one unless the seller has real documentation of a captured gun from a reliable source as faked markings are very common on these and Lugers.
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Both Privi Partisan abd Fiocchi manufacture good quality 7.63 Mauser ammo for the C96, as previously stated, it is very important not to use 7.62x25 Soviet Tokarev ammunition in a C96. The 7.62x25 is loaded to muchhigher pressure and is unsafe in a C96. Some C96's have been converted to 9mm. This is in addition to the originally manufactured 9mm C96 guns. These conversions were popular when C96s were imported from Red China in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Some of these guns were also refurpished and refinished. Some shoot well, some don't. A friend of mine has one that converted and refinished, and althought a beautiful gun, it is terribly inaccurate. This gun is now a useless safe queen.
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Apparently there's also quite a few Chinese copies of the Broomhandle, last American Rifleman had an article on the copies.
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The Astra 900 was a Spannish copy of the C96, as a twist of irony, the German military actually bought some 900s during WWII.
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I bought my first (perhaps not the last) c96 last week. I hope it arrives soon.
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Congrats Hopalong! We will need pics once it gets home!
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Here are the auction pictures.
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Congrats! I hope this link will help you out, I still refer to it regularly.
http://web.archive.org/web/20100810215355/http://www.surplusrifle.com/pistolc96broomhandle/disassemble/index.asp
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That is an excellent resource! Thanks for sharing it.
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Glad you liked it.
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Has anyone tried to use the M16 5.56 stripper clips for loading? I have used those for loading the mags for my pps 43 and they work great.
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I've tried them and some will work and some won't. Good luck, that is why I ordered some original ones from Numrich.
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Has anyone tried to use the M16 5.56 stripper clips for loading? I have used those for loading the mags for my pps 43 and they work great.
I will try that as soon as mine arrives! It was shipped yesterday and the seller is in the same state as I am.
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Mine arrived yesterday. I stiripped, cleaned, lubed and reassembled it. I am heading to the range today.
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Hey Hoppy bring it with when you come to Sargent in July. I'm going to try to do a sort of AZSA side match Sunday afternoon after the main GAF match.
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That sounds like fun!
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Hoppy, where you at in Illinois? I'm by Carbondale.
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I could not be farther from you in our state. I am just 20 mikes south of the Wisconsin border. I know Carbondale well I did a masters degree there in the late 1980s. I have fond memories of being there.