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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Winchester Model 1876 => Topic started by: Silver_Rings on February 02, 2011, 03:08:23 PM

Title: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Silver_Rings on February 02, 2011, 03:08:23 PM
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.23 crimped over front driving band
Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 30

I'm now using a target in front of my chronograph and that has improved the consistency of the reading I am getting.

All of these loads are with a 1/2 x 1/2 x1/2" poly filler

Reloader 7 30.0 grns  Low 1383 high 1444 av 1410 spread 61

5744         27.5 grns  Low 1471 high 1493 av 1481 spread 22

I4198        28.0 grns  Low 1424 high 1479 av 1454 spread 55

I3031        33.0 grns  Low 1374 high 1384 av 1379 spread 10

 
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.


Silver Rings
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: OKDEE on February 03, 2011, 10:51:22 AM
Interesting stats!  Thanks for stepping out on a warm day... ;D

I will recheck my loads, but it seemed on my Chaparral (22" barrel),  the powder 3031 was not the best by a long shot, when it came to accuracey and standard deviation.

I seem to remember that 24 grains of 5744 was the best and most accurate.

Great!

Oklahoma Dee
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on February 17, 2011, 11:20:05 AM
Some new loads.

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.23 crimped over front driving band
Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 50

I'm now using a target in front of my chronograph and that has improved the consistency of the reading I am getting.

All of these loads are with a 1/2 x 1/2 x1/2" poly filler

Reloader 7 31.0 grns  Low 1384 high 1457 av 1430 spread 73

5744         28.0 grns  Low 1499 high 1516 av 1508 spread 17

I4198        29.0 grns  Low 1486 high 1511 av 1497 spread 25

I3031        35.0 grns  Low 1422 high 1494 av 1458 spread 72

Benchmark 36.0 grns  Low 1404 high 1501 av 1464 spread 97

 
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.


SR
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on March 03, 2011, 10:02:23 AM
Some new loads.

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.26 crimped using Lee's professional crimp die
Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 55

I'm now using a target in front of my chronograph and that has improved the consistency of the reading I am getting.

All of these loads are with a 1/2 x 1/2 x1/2" poly filler

Reloader 7 32.0 grns  Low 1457 high 1474 av 1466 spread 17

5744         29.0 grns  Low 1520 high 1550 av 1534 spread 30

I4198        30.0 grns  Low 1561 high 1589 av 1575 spread 28

I3031        36.0 grns  Low 1452 high 1518 av 1491 spread 66

Benchmark 37.0 grns  Low 1498 high 1541 av 1523 spread 43

 
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on March 24, 2011, 11:59:30 AM
More loads

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.23 crimped over front driving band
Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 60
I'm now using a target in front of my chronograph and that has improved the consistency of the reading I am getting.

Filler loads are with a 1/2 x 1/2 x1/2" poly filler

Reloader 7 (filler) 36.0 grns  Low 1606 high 1668 av 1642 spread 62

5744 (filler)         30.0 grns  Low 1591 high 1600 av 1596 spread 9

I4198 (filler)        31.0 grns  Low 1516 high 1635 av 1583 spread 119

I3031 (filler)        39.0 grns  Low 1618 high 1648 av 1633 spread 30

Benchmark          38.0 grns  Low 1293 high 1515 av 1416 spread 222

Benchmark          39.0 grns  Low 1370 high 1561 av 1496 spread 191

This weeks loads

Filler loads are with a 1/2 x 1/2 x1/2" poly filler

Reloader 7 (filler) 37.0 grns  Low 1541 high 1618 av 1584 spread 77

5744 (filler)         31.0 grns  Low 1544 high 1694 av 1636 spread 150

I4198 (filler)        32.0 grns  Low 1626 high 1668 av 1646 spread 42

Benchmark          40.0 grns  Low 1341 high 1483 av 1431 spread 142

Benchmark          41.0 grns  Low 1460 high 1631 av 1541 spread 171
 
Benchmark          42.0 grns  Low 1493 high 1648 av 1559 spread 155
 
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.

SR

Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on April 14, 2011, 10:40:17 AM
Howdy folks,

Some of you are probably wondering about why I am working up loads that are this fast.  First of all I am having fun doing this.  I have shot my Chappy 76 more than any of my other guns , with the exception of my CAS match guns.  I have shot over 600 rounds through my Chappy 76 without any problems.  I pulled the side plates on it after my last range session and there is no sign of problems.  Once I get the speed that I am looking for I will work on finding the most accurate loads.

I figure the 45-60 in a modern reproduction can match the performance of Springfield 45-70 loads and that is what I'm trying to do.  With the 300 gr hard cast bullet I am looking for 1700 fps, which I have about reached.  With the 405 gr hard cast bullet I am looking for 1500 fps.

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.26 crimped using Lee's professional crimp die

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 50

I'm now using a target in front of my chronograph and that has improved the consistency of the reading I am getting.

Loads with filler use a 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2" poly filler

Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Reloader 7 38.0 grns         Low 1566 high 1700 av 1619 spread 134

5744         32.0 grns filler  Low 1660 high 1700 av 1683 spread 40

I4198        33.0 grns filler  Low 1656 high 1681 av 1665 spread 25

Benchmark 44.0 grns        Low 1629 high 1700 av  1657 spread 71

Benchmark 45.0 grns        Low 1705 high 1738 av  1720 spread 33


I've started work on loads for 405 gr hard cast lead bullets.

Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 405 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Reloader 7 30.0 grns filler   Low 1403 high 1433 av 1413 spread 30

5744         21.0 grns filler  Low 1132 high 1157 av 1146 spread 25

I4198        23.0 grns filler  Low 1187 high 1230 av 1208 spread 43

Benchmark 35.0 grns        Low 1318 high 1367 av 1340 spread 49


 
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.

Silver Rings

Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Joe Lansing on April 14, 2011, 07:52:52 PM
    Does anyone have any experience using 4895 or 4759? I'd be very interested in loading info using 4895 and 4759.

                                                                    J.L.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: RedBaron on April 15, 2011, 08:56:49 AM
I am extremely reluctant to respond, but here goes. Since this forum's inception, I have read, and used, the under- powered loads  listed. Some of been so low that the bullet barely exits the barrel, if the ultra light powder charge (4198,etc) even ignites.
Fiirst of all, I have been casting (RCBS 320 GR GC), loading, and shooting a 45-60 WCF for nearly 4-years. Several thousand rounds.
The toggle-link (modern repo) is not nearly as weak as some think it is, or as strong as some want it to be. Mr. Lansing asked about 4895. I have used that powder with good results, very accurate. The best ,however, is a slightly compressed load of H4831. After 500 + rounds of that load, I have found that it is by far the most accurate and consistent of anything I have tried. Before anyone responds, check out Ken Waters Pet Loads for cast bullets in the 45-70. Interpret from there, with common sense, of course.

Powders used with best results (with consistency,pressure, and accuracy as the standards):

1. H4831
2. 5744
3. H4895 (actually tied with 5744)
4. 2015
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Trailrider on April 15, 2011, 12:57:37 PM
   {snip for bandwidth}
 The best ,however, is a slightly compressed load of H4891. After 500 + rounds of that load, I have found that it is by far the most accurate and consistent of anything I have tried. Before anyone responds, check out Ken Waters Pet Loads for cast bullets in the 45-70. Interpret from there, with common sense, of course.

Powders used with best results (with consistency,pressure, and accuracy as the standards):

1. H4891
2. 5744
3. H4895 (actually tied with 5744)
4. 2015


What is H4891? I've used H4831 and H4895 for years, but H4891 is a new one on me. Something I've been ignoring or...?
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: RedBaron on April 15, 2011, 07:06:10 PM
Sorry. Thanks for pointing out my typo.  H4831..corrected.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: larryo_1 on April 16, 2011, 08:23:49 PM
Red Baron:
Got a question for you concerning H4831. I do not have a 45-60 rather a 45-75.  It is an early Uberti wilth the larger chamber.  That I like by the way.  My question is this:  I decided to try 4831 in both the "H" and the "I" versions and the short grain version also.  I still am getting alot of powder grains left over after each shot.  I quit testing at 54 grains/two cardboard wads and magnum primers under a 350 grain bullet.  I wanted to get rid of the powder grains which averaged about 5 grains per shot.  That is in both the case and the barrel.  So, I just gave up.  The velocities were between 1250 and 1350 fps.  No adverse signs of pressures either.  So...do you have these leftovers or not.  And if you do what do you do about them..if anything at all.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: RedBaron on April 17, 2011, 05:54:10 PM
Use mag-primers and good crimp (Redding profile). A modified 45-70 case to 45-60 spec's (Win. or Rem.) will take about 52 grs of the standard H4831. Case length = 1.855". Yes, it is short, but I have no feeding problems.  Have not tried either the IMR verson, or the "short" length. You will get some unburned residue, but not NEAR as much as 5744.  Accurate.. very accurate.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: larryo_1 on April 17, 2011, 09:15:59 PM
Red Baron:

I did use Magnum primers and a Lee factory crimp on the cases.  The brass I used was Jamison 45-75 brass.  I can still play around with that 4831 some more and increase the charge some more.  As I said-other than the residue, there was nothing wrong with the loads that I tested other than I would like to see the fps more in the 1350-1400 range but that is not critical either.  Anyway thanks for your input.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on April 28, 2011, 12:06:44 PM
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.26 crimped using Lee's professional crimp die

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 50

I'm now using a target in front of my chronograph and that has improved the consistency of the reading I am getting.

Loads with filler use a 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2" poly filler

Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Reloader 7 39.0 grns         Low 1806 high 1932 av 1887 spread 126

5744         32.5 grns filler  Low 1811 high 1857 av 1827 spread 46

I4198        34.0 grns filler  Low 1839 high 1872 av 1850 spread 33



Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 405 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Reloader 7 31.0 grns filler   Low 1383 high 1616 av 1532 spread 233

5744         23.0 grns filler  Low 1266 high 1326 av 1296 spread 60

I4198        25.0 grns filler  Low 1366 high 1378 av 1373 spread 12

Benchmark 36.0 grns        Low 1322 high 1460 av 1407 spread 138

Benchmark 37.0 grns        Low 1481 high 1537 av 1509 spread 56


 
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  Do NOT use in original 1876 rifles.

Silver Rings
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Jubal Wilson on April 30, 2011, 02:54:40 PM
Red Baron
I to have been in quest of accurate loads for my Uberti 45-60 with 28 inch barrel. I know that each rifle is different and that I may get different results than you have but I would like to ask you some questions. First I crammed 65 gr of Swiss 1 1/2 no wad standard primer under the RCBS 45 - 300 GC (321 gr at 20:1) and get about 1370 fps. Accruacy is unknown because the day I chronographed this load it was blowing so hard it blew the tripod with the sky screens over twice. >:( Anyway that is why I want to keep the velocity between 1400 to 1450 fps but accuracy is the most important thing for me. I have been using 5744 and IMR4198 with good results. I have been using Puff-Lon filler with these powders and it pretty much eliminates the unburned grains of powder. My best load so far with 5744 is 26.5 gr with Puff-lon and the RCBS bullet for a velocity of 1420 and a standard deviation of 2.7. Groups, if I do my part, range from 1 3/4 ;D to 2 1/2 inches at 50 yards.
My questions for you are 1) do you have a 28 inch barrel? 2) what kind of velocity do you get if you stuff 52.0 gr of H4831 into a 45-60 case? 3) is the unburned powder in your barrel loose to where it will run back into the action? and 4) can you give me a rough idea of your definition of accuracy?
I want to thank you for bringing this powder to my attention and for any answers to my questions that you provide.
Paul
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Grizzly Adams on May 01, 2011, 02:26:03 PM
Hey, Rings, this is a fine and very useful thread.  With your permission, I will pin it so it remains on top for folks. :)
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on May 02, 2011, 04:09:46 PM
Howdy Grizzly,

Go right ahead and pin it.  I hope it help folks out some.

Silver Rings
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Rowdy Fulcher on May 02, 2011, 08:54:53 PM
Silver Rings
I have tried the reloader 7and it was good , and the imr 3031 I have loaded but haven't had a chance to shoot yet . If it will ever quit raining maybe I can slip out and fire a few rounds . Thanks for posting this loading info .  ;D
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on May 02, 2011, 09:18:44 PM
Rowdy,

Glad to help.

Silver Rings
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: RedBaron on May 04, 2011, 07:26:32 AM
Jubal (Early?)..... barrel length is 28".. suspect the velocity is 1200-1300 (no chrono).. the powder residue is much less than 5744..does not get in the action.. routinely achieve 3-shot groups (100 yds) measuring 1 1/4" -1 3/8", or less if I do my part.  My 76 is set up with a Marbles tang sight and Lyman 17A, with I believe a 1/32" bead.  I use a 3" black target at 100 yards and 12" at 200 yards.
At 200 yards, I get 3-4", or less on a real good day. The only bullet I shoot is a 320 gr RCBS GC (Lee lube) I cast from wheel weights. Hence the case length of 1.855" with a overall length of 2.272". Works perfectly thru the action. As stated earlier,mag primers with 4831 and Redding profile crimp.  All shooting from a bench.  Bullets sized .459". Hope this helps.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Rowdy Fulcher on May 07, 2011, 07:40:28 PM
SR
I have a Chaparral that I cut down to 24 " , I have used the Reloader 7 and I have used the IMR3031 and they both work good .I plan on working more with the IMR 3031 because I have it . I ran out of reloader 7 and it was working good . Will pick up a pound of Reloader 7 the next time I visit the gun shop . Maybe the rain is over so I can get out and try more loads . Today I was using 38.5 grains of imr 3031 and it choreographed about 1275 fps . I used no fillers with today's loads .I have used the Puff-Lon and other than being a pain in the butt it works good .

 
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on May 09, 2011, 03:06:18 PM
Hi Rowdy,

I found that with out the filler the velocity spread can be some times 200 fps.  I ran out of I3031, which is why there have been no new loads with it.

Silver Rings
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: larryo_1 on May 09, 2011, 05:32:00 PM
SR:
I couldn't stand it so went back and started again with 4831.  Using both the H and the IMR types, I got up to 60 grains in my 45-75.  As I mentioned earlier, my rifle has the larger chamber.  Anyway, I had a hunch that powder compression might be the key to all that left-over powder.  At 60 grains of IMR 4831 there was still some but not too bad.  When I used the 60 grain load of H 4831 that  powder was still there but not as bad as with the IMR powder and I got a 0.8" - 5 shot group at 25 yards.  Hmmph!  Now I'll chronograph it and see what I find.  By the way, those mag primers showed no signs of any pressure at all.  Extraction normal also.  I don' have anymore room in the cases for more than what I used and actually 4831 is pretty forgiving compared to other powders I have used.  If I tried to increase the load it would squish the bullet and that ain't the name of the game. ;)
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on May 26, 2011, 10:40:17 AM
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.26 crimped using Lee's professional crimp die

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 55


Loads with filler use a 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2" poly filler

Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Reloader 7 29.0 grns filler  Low 1422 high 1478 av 1444 spread 56  4.5" group 100 yrds

Reloader 7 32.0 grns filler  Low 1511 high 1589 av 1558 spread 78  2" group 100 yrds

H4831SC   50.0 grns filler  Low 1239 high 1303 av 1262 spread 64  3.5" group 100 yrds (Mag rifle primer) compressed

H4831SC   53.0 grns filler  Low 1337 high 1355 av 1343 spread 18  4.5" group 100 yrds (Mag rifle primer) heavily compressed


Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 405 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Benchmark 35.0 grns        Low 1337 high 1370 av 1359 spread 33 5.5" group

Benchmark 37.0 grns        Low 1429 high 1501 av 1453 spread 72 5.5" group

H4831SC   43.0 grns         Low 1101 high 1118 av 1107 spread 17  3.5" group 100 yrds (Mag rifle primer) compressed
 

The H4831SC is the most accurate powder I have tried yet.  The 400gr bullet with 43.0 grns of H4831SC had 3 shoots in 1.5".  The 300 grn bullet with 50.0 grns H4831SC has 3 shoots in 1.25".  Maybe a little faster powder that would allow a compressed load and give some what higher velocity would work as well?
 
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  Do NOT use in original 1876 rifles.

Silver Rings
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: larryo_1 on May 26, 2011, 02:14:42 PM
SR:
I did some more playing around with both H4831 and H4831SC using both Jamison and WW348 cases.  I had fun and learned that all I can get in my cases without undue compression is 60 grains of these powders.  As I have mentioned, my rifle  has the larger "Uberti" chamber so am able to stuff this much into them.  I did save the unburned powder from each test load and found that there is only about 0.22 to 0.27 grains of the stuff left over.  I had used magnum primers and crimped the loads.  The CV is a little better with the H4831 than the H4831SC.  The velocity that I got with the H4831 averaged 1542.3 feet per second and with the H4831SC I got 1502.5 feet per second. I wasn't too worried about accuracy but they both shot under 0.5" at 25 yards and that is all I needed.  As I said, I had fun doing these tests but, frankly, am not that impressed with either powder.  I am going to play around with some 3031 as I have done some with it a year ago or so and use it in my other large caliber rifles with great success.  In the meantime, I am sticking to my BP loads that give me more "Bang" for the buck so to speak.  If what I have here has helped any great. ;D
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on May 26, 2011, 06:41:10 PM
Larryo,

I have had some success with Reloader 7.  It gives good velocity.  The accuracy has been a problem so far.  I found 32.0 grains with no filler sometimes produces groups for 3 shots of less than 2".  Other times I will get 2 groups out of a 5 shot string that are more than 6" apart, each group will be an inch or less.  I have this same problem with most of the other powder I have tried, I'll get a 3" group plus a couple of flyers.  The H4831SC and some loads of 5744 do better.

SR  
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: larryo_1 on May 26, 2011, 07:32:25 PM
SR:
Thanks for the info.  I have both RE7 and 5744 and have data on them that I have used.  Some of it I have developed myself.  right now tho, I think that I may play a bit with 3031 as..I said..I did have some promising results with it and jacketed bullets.  I have also had good luck with 4198.  In fact I have been hitting 200 yard targets with that load.  One possible reason of some of my success is that I have that Hoch mold which is a winner and that I went to the 16:1 alloy that the old timers used.  Maybe my rifle just likes that combination  I don't know 'cause every rifle has its own personality and they are all as fuzzy as an 'ol woman. ;)
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Rowdy Fulcher on June 18, 2011, 12:01:26 PM
Silver Rings
The imr 3031 at 38.5 grains is working for me . I have used filler in some and it does help the velocity spread .
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on June 19, 2011, 08:22:19 PM
Rowdy,

I ran out of I3031.  I moved to looking for a full case load for both my 300 grn and 400 grn bullets.  I picked up a can of Varget and am going to see what I can come up with it.  H4831SC is good for full case loads but I want a bit more speed.

Silver Rings
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on June 30, 2011, 10:30:33 AM
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.26 crimped using Lee's professional crimp die

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 80


Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Varget      42.0 grns   Low 1387 high 1449 av 1413 spread 62



Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 405 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Varget      35.0 grns   Low 1202 high 1249 av 1227 spread 47


 
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  Do NOT use in original 1876 rifles.

Silver Rings
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: deadly doc on July 11, 2011, 07:08:02 AM
 hi i have been loading imr4227 for about 2 years and it will shoot 2 inch groups at 200 yds
I have seen about 3 other 76s and tre loads thay shoot wont stand up to mine
thanks deadly doc
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on July 13, 2011, 09:40:00 AM
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.26 crimped using Lee's professional crimp die

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft temp about 80


Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Varget      44.0 grns   Low 1506 high 1523 av 1513 spread 17 group 1 1/2" @ 100 yds

Varget      45.0 grns   Low 1534 high 1576 av 1556 spread 42 group 2 1/4" @ 100 yds

Varget      46.0 grns   Low 1587 high 1610 av 1595 spread 23 group 1" @ 100 yds



Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 405 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Varget      36.0 grns   Low 1203 high 1242 av 1225 spread 39 group 1 3/4" @ 100 yds

Varget      37.0 grns   Low 1225 high 1284 av 1256 spread 59 group 3 1/2" @ 100 yds

Varget      38.0 grns   Low 1403 high 1444 av 1421 spread 41 group 1 3/4" @ 100 yds


Varget is looking good.  The 400gr bullet load with 38.0 of Varget is what I am looking for with a 400 gr bullet.  The 300 gr bullet load of 46.0 of Varget is a mild and accurate load that I will play with some more.  Both of these loads fill the case enough to give consistent results.


 
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  Do NOT use in original 1876 rifles.

Silver Rings
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Rowdy Fulcher on July 13, 2011, 08:41:22 PM
Silver Rings
The 46.0 of the Varget looks real good . Have you shot many rounds using the 300 gr. at 46.0 varget ? What would you compare the recoil to ?
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on July 15, 2011, 07:56:54 PM
Rowdy,

I only loaded 3 rounds with each for that test.  I've loaded up 10 or 15 now to try the next time out, probably Wednesday.  Even shooting from the bench the recoil was moderate.  Shooting it off hand it should be fairly mild.  You have to take into consideration I'm shooting a 28" barrel so it is heavier.

I'll post after the next outing and let you know.  I'm trying some of the loads with mag primers to see what kind of difference it makes.

Silver Rings
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on July 27, 2011, 09:38:38 AM
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  These loads are NOT for original 1876 rifles.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.27 crimped using Lee's professional crimp die

alt 6100ft temp about 80


Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Varget      46.0 grns   Low 1564 high 1598 av 1587 spread 34 Remington standard large rifle primers

Varget      46.0 grns   Low 1602 high 1681 av 1652 spread 79 Remington magnum large rifle primers

The groups for both these loads were all over the place today.  I don't know why.  Last time out I had a good group with the 46.0 grns of Varget.  The poor groups may be just my shooting as I shot the 300 grn loads last.  I shot my last 5 rds of the mag primer load at the 170 yds 12" plate and hit it 3 out of 5.

The magnum primers resulted in an increase of 64 fps. 



Loads using Colorado Cast Bullets 405 gr hard cast rnfp bullet


Varget      38.0 grns   Low 1285 high 1329 av 1308 spread 44 group 3 1/2" @ 100 yds Remington standard large rifle primers

Varget      38.0 grns   Low 1326 high 1381 av 1366 spread 55 group 2 3/4" @ 100 yds Remington magnum large rifle primers

The 400 grn loads gave about the same group size as last time.  However the velocity was lower by 113 fps.  The magnum primers resulted in an increase of over 50 fps over standard primers.


 
These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.  Do NOT use in original 1876 rifles.

Silver Rings
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Rowdy Fulcher on July 28, 2011, 01:45:08 AM
Silver Rings
So what load are you going with ? So many choices . ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on July 28, 2011, 07:26:03 PM
Howdy Rowdy,

I'll use the 405 grn with 38.0 grns of Varget with either standard or magnum primers.  This load gives enough speed for me and the accuracy is good.

I have a couple of hundred 300 grn bullets left so I'll do more playing with them still.  May be try for a load that gives 1300 - 1400 fps and good accuracy.

I think the 405 grn load above would make a good hunting load.

Silver Rings

 
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Rowdy Fulcher on July 29, 2011, 10:24:58 AM
Silver Rings
The  1400 to 1475 fps is what I'm interested in . Are you still having FUN playing with the different loads . How many pieces of 45-60 brass do you have ?? Also have you had any trouble with it  ?? I have about 900 pieces of Jamison's brass and I haven't had no trouble at all . Keep up the good work and don't get to hot .
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on July 29, 2011, 08:50:58 PM
Howdy Rowdy,

I have 200 Jamison 45-60 cases and have had no problems with the brass even after 5 - 10 loadings.

Still having fun trying loads. 

Silver Rings
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Rowdy Fulcher on July 30, 2011, 01:41:05 AM
Silver Rings
Glad your still having fun with the different loads . Having FUN is what it's all about . Keep up the good work and keep on shooting .
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: h c ramrod on July 30, 2011, 08:12:45 AM
WELL I/LL TELL YAH I REALY ENJOY THIS FORUM AND LOOK AT ALL THE TESTING SILVERRINGS HAS DONE AND IT HAS HELP ME WITH MY 45/60 LOADS
THIS WEEK END I WILL TEST SOME 405 HRD CST WITH 4198 26GRN FOR ACURACY. THE FPS IS AROUND 12OO.
I USUALY USE 5744 POWDER WITCH I LIKE VERY MUCH.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK GUY'S
Ram
BY THE WAY MY N.W.M.P. CARB. LIKES 405'S AND 420'S
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: h c ramrod on August 23, 2011, 11:49:54 AM
 :)
WELL HAD A GREAT WEEK END AT OUR CLUB SHOOTIN COWBOY ACTION AND ALSO DOWN AT THE LONG RANGE . I LOADED SOME 405GRN FLAT NOSE LEAD HARD CAST. WITH 26 GRN OF H4198 .
GOT MY N.W.M.P. CARB SIGHTED IN STARTIN AT 130 YRDS AND 200 AND 250 AND 300 AND 385 YARDS .HIT'S WERE VERY ACURATE, AROUND 1200 FPS. I AM VERY HAPPY WITH THE LOAD AND THE RIFLE.......
THE 385 YARD TARGET IS A BUFFALO STEEL THE SISE OF A ST.BERNARD DOG, NOT TO BIG AT 385YRDS.
THE CLOSER TARGETS ARE LOT SMALLER.......LIFE CANT GET MUCH BETTER THAN THIS..........
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: h c ramrod on August 23, 2011, 11:51:46 AM
 :-\
DANG I FORGOT TO MENTION THE CALIBER WAS 45/60, SORRY
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Rowdy Fulcher on August 24, 2011, 02:43:22 AM
Howdy
Plan on using my 45-60 at the Eastern Regional ( NCOWS ) It works real good on the T Rex targets .
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: h c ramrod on August 24, 2011, 12:08:07 PM
ROWDY I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE T X TARGIT IS NEVER HERD OF IT......
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Rowdy Fulcher on August 27, 2011, 02:42:44 AM
Howdy
Now the T Rex Targets are a Knock down .This will be shot at the Eastern Regional ( NCOWS ) It usually  consist of 5 pistol and about   8 rifle targets . This is a black powder event . I love knocking those Buffalo's down with my 76 .   
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: h c ramrod on August 31, 2011, 03:40:20 AM
DO YAH THINK WE WERE BORN AT THE WRONG TIME....?????
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Chuy Chacon on January 03, 2012, 12:12:40 PM
Howdy
I would like to thank everyone for the 45- 60 load info since it is hard to come by. I have been shooting 45-60 in a sharps carbine for the last 2 years and now a Chappy nwmp carbine. My Chappy likes long OAL of 2.31-2.325 and thin rim brass.My best guess on PSI levels would be below 15,000 , some unburned power is a good sign that your psi is low enough.

Lee 340 lfn bullet H4895 starting at 32 grs Vel 1150, 35grs Vel 1315 ,(38.5 Vel 1450),40.0 Vel 1520 Leading starts at 40 grs
Lee 340 lfn bullet Goex FFG 62grs Vel 1250                                       Std Load
Hornady 300JHP OAL 2.32 H4895 38.5 grs

Thanks
Chuy


Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Roosterman on April 05, 2012, 12:50:25 PM
Anybody working with SR 4759?
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Pitchy on April 24, 2012, 06:52:50 PM
Larryo,

I have had some success with Reloader 7.  It gives good velocity.  The accuracy has been a problem so far.  I found 32.0 grains with no filler sometimes produces groups for 3 shots of less than 2".  Other times I will get 2 groups out of a 5 shot string that are more than 6" apart, each group will be an inch or less.  I have this same problem with most of the other powder I have tried, I'll get a 3" group plus a couple of flyers.  The H4831SC and some loads of 5744 do better.

SR  

Never mind Rowdy this answered my question.  ;D
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Pitchy on April 28, 2012, 05:36:00 PM
Silver Rings
The imr 3031 at 38.5 grains is working for me . I have used filler in some and it does help the velocity spread .

Where would there be room for a filler with that load, i loaded some today at 37 grains and there isn`t much space left using a 300 grain bullet.

Could someone explain to me how the 405 grain bullet works for the 45-60.
The 405 grain bullet is a lot longer than the 300 grainers so in order to get OAL correct you would have to crimp high on the bullet nose right, which then would decrease the available space for powder in the case.
I`d be interested in working up a load for deer using 3031 with the 405.
Thanks
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Grizzly Adams on April 29, 2012, 09:02:39 AM
Where would there be room for a filler with that load, i loaded some today at 37 grains and there isn`t much space left using a 300 grain bullet.

Could someone explain to me how the 405 grain bullet works for the 45-60.
The 405 grain bullet is a lot longer than the 300 grainers so in order to get OAL correct you would have to crimp high on the bullet nose right, which then would decrease the available space for powder in the case.
I`d be interested in working up a load for deer using 3031 with the 405.
Thanks

For smokeless, some shorten the case just a bit.  I use a Lee factory crimp die.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Pitchy on April 29, 2012, 09:08:43 AM
For smokeless, some shorten the case just a bit.  I use a Lee factory crimp die.

One would have to shorten the case a lot to crimp in the top groove of a 405 grain bullet and even if ya crimp on the nose all that bullet will be in the case further which will increase pressures.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Pitchy on May 05, 2012, 08:22:45 AM
Not much help here , anyway i`m going to stick with the 300 grainers, may try 4198.
Good luck newbies with new guns.  ;)
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: h c ramrod on May 26, 2012, 04:26:34 AM
in regards to the 405 grn lead
 i have loaded the 405 in 45/60 with 57/44 powder ( 23grns ) and i crimp right in the groove on this bullet.
makes a good hunting load for deer sise game out to one hundred yrds . also done up to 420grn same powder charge.
i shoot them out of a uberty cross fire trail carbine n.w.m.p. style.
with 4198 with 300 grn lead 29grns of powder aprox fps = 1300 in the carb.
thats what i have done, and they shoot great.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Pitchy on May 26, 2012, 07:58:42 AM
My question still is did you have to shorten the case with the 405 bullet to get the proper overall length correct.
The 405 grain bullet is a lot longer than the 300 grain bullet.
Here`s a pic of the 300 and 405 grain bullets, it looks like OAL will be ok but the 405 takes up alot more case space, would the 29-30 grain load of 4198 work ok?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/InTheWind/sub%20album%201/SDC12248.jpg)
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: h c ramrod on May 26, 2012, 08:11:10 AM
NO STANDARD 45/60 CASE LENTH  I KNOW THE LAZER CAST WORK JUST FINE PLENTY OF ROOM IN THE CASE FOR THE LOADS I MADE.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: h c ramrod on May 26, 2012, 08:16:15 AM
WITH THE 405 I NEVER USED 29 OR 30 GRN OF 4198
ONLY WITH THE 300GRN LEAD
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Pitchy on May 26, 2012, 08:20:09 AM
There would be plenty enough room for the 29 grain load of 4198, i also have the 405 grain flat nose bullet.
My question is because of the heavy bullet and less case space with the longer bullet how much do i have to reduce the load to stay within safe pressures or isn`t it an issue.
Thanks.
Hope ya wern`t shouting at me with the caps.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: h c ramrod on May 26, 2012, 08:24:03 AM
NOT SHOUTING AT ALL
          I WOULD NOT GO THAT MUCH 4198 WITH THE 405 MY MAX THAT I TRIED WAS 26 WITH 4198 ON 405 LEAD
29 WITH THE 300..............
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Pitchy on May 26, 2012, 08:27:51 AM
Thanks, that`s what i needed, a starting point.
I`ll load up a couple today and try them and report back.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Pitchy on May 26, 2012, 09:16:34 AM
Say now that`s a nice load, i like that, mild and shot a little high at 50 yards so should be right on at 100.
My eyes are bad so that  probably would of been a tight group with good vision.
With the factory ladder sight i was all over the place horizontally, after replacing with a semi-buckhorn that is better but as ya can see vertical is still off.
Thanks pard ya made my day.  :)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/InTheWind/sub%20album%201/SDC12249.jpg)
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Pitchy on May 27, 2012, 08:47:33 AM
Any load results using a 405 grain bullet and 4198 would be appreciated.  :)
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Pitchy on May 28, 2012, 02:00:46 PM
Shot a couple groups using the 26 grain load of 4198 and 405, not bad for my eyes, but then lowered the charge to 25 grains and not bad.
Use this load at your own risk.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/InTheWind/sub%20album%201/SDC12250.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/InTheWind/sub%20album%201/SDC12251.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/InTheWind/sub%20album%201/SDC12252.jpg)
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Pitchy on June 08, 2012, 04:42:53 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/InTheWind/sub%20album%201/SDC12272.jpg)
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: hammer1 on June 24, 2012, 02:24:40 PM
Silver Rings,
Please forgive me, Im just starting out reloading for the big case blackpowder rounds. The Varget loads, the 46 gr loads, does that fill the case, or are you using the filler. Again, I dont want to screw up a really great rifle, and I can use all the help I can get. Thanks very much, sir.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on June 28, 2012, 10:15:03 AM
Howdy Hammer1,

Sorry for taking so long to reply.  We just built a new house and I have not been on CASCITY much.  The 300 grain bullet with 46 grains of varget fills the case pretty good.  I did not use a filler with that load.  

Friendly reminder, these loads are NOT for original 1876s, only for reproduction 1876s.  Also they have not been pressure tested so use at your own risk.

Silver Rings  
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: leverman on July 15, 2012, 05:53:38 AM
Hi guys, been LOTs of info on the 45-60 loads in both 300 and 405 gn bullets over the last year or so, Silver Rings especialy doing a lot of testing on differant powders. Here in the UK, we do not have your ability to walk into a gunshop and buy what you want over the counter, so I have H4831, Varget, and R22 for my hunting rifles, am waiting for a variation to add a Ulberti 1876 in 45-60 to hunt deer and do some range/fun shooting with it. After all your testing guys, what have you come up with as a hunting load and a load to do silluete etc targets just for the hell of it. Are you useing a filler etc, I need 1700ft/lds muzzle energy to be deer legal, any help would be appreciated. This site has the most information on lever action rifles out there, driven by people with a passion for these great firearms, and dedicated to thier continued use, how I wish I was able to do what you guys do for a hobby, I shoot about 60 to 70 deer a year and am responsible for others to do a combined cull of around 130. My ulberti will be another rifle to add another dimension to my sport here in the UK, dry powder, tight barrels and Diana may smile at you. ;) leverman.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Joe Lansing on July 16, 2012, 06:07:41 PM
    I am curious to see if there is any load recommended for the 45-60 which has a m.v. of 1700 f.p.s. or more (or any 1876 rifle caliber, for that matter).

                                                                                      JL
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Joe Lansing on July 16, 2012, 06:12:29 PM
    I'm sorry. I miss read. I thought it was fps, not ft. lbs. I had better get my eyes checked.

                                         JL
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: leverman on July 19, 2012, 05:03:39 PM
If you look at Silver Rings loads, he got 1698 fps from some of his loads.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Roosterman on July 20, 2012, 05:20:23 PM
    I'm sorry. I miss read. I thought it was fps, not ft. lbs. I had better get my eyes checked.

                                         JL
I read it the same way. ;) I'd think you'll have to go with a 405gr bullet, but I'm not smart enough to know how to figure foot pounds of energy. :-[
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Mike on July 21, 2012, 03:20:52 PM
There is a legal requirment in the UK for cartridge to shoot deer, the guy should stick to modern hunting rounds because he may have to prove his reloads conform to the law.
Guess work is not the way to go in this case although all deer in the uk could be kill with the 45-60 round if it were LEGAL.


Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: leverman on July 21, 2012, 04:37:50 PM
I have a 270, a  7x57, a 243, and a 223 last one legal for our smaller deer. Several people on a site in the UK use a 44 Remington Mag for deer, this reaches the required levels to be legal in England. I can achieve the required 1700 ft/lds required by the UK law using loads posted on here. If there are people in the US using lever guns for hunting deer why shouldn't I do the same in the UK without breaking the law. leverman ???
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: hammer1 on July 28, 2012, 11:19:24 AM
Silveer Rings, I would like to thank you for your help. I tried the varget load with the 350 gr Lazercast in my 45-60, found the sweet spot, at 39.5 grs . I shot an 1 1/2 group at a hundred, I have to take my  Chrony out next time,( intermittent rain showers). But the load seemed alot faster than the load I was trying with Trailboss.. Primers came out rounded near the edges. Thank you, very much Sir.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: leverman on July 28, 2012, 02:37:40 PM
Ditto to Silver Rings for his load testing, should be given a post for all the work he has done, the Varget load will be what I will try out, many thanks to S.R. and previous poster. deerwarden ;D
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Silver_Rings on August 02, 2012, 09:53:03 AM
Hammer1,

Glad to help.  Sounds like you found a great load for your rifle.

Silver Rings
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Rowdy Fulcher on August 02, 2012, 12:36:23 PM
Silver Rings
Thanks for all the load data .We appreciate your hard work and time you've spent developing them . Keep up the good work .  ;D
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Roosterman on October 16, 2012, 05:11:41 PM
Shot some Varget loads that worked well for Silver Rings . Worked well for me too. Both 300gr and 405 bullits.  I GOTTA get some new sights that I can see...... :'(
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Roosterman on November 08, 2012, 10:42:34 PM
Got my peeps on, what a difference. Shot a  100 yard 5 shot group @ 1 5/8" today with 35gr Varget and 405 hard cast bullet. Very pleased. ;D
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: leverman on November 20, 2012, 04:12:48 PM
I bought a Ulberti 45-60 because of my love of western movies, my favorite being Tom Horne man of the west. It was an impulsive buy, as soon as I picked it up I had to own one. Unlike you guys, here in the UK we have to prove a use/need for a firearm, as an avid deer hunter shooting around 40-50 a year and controlling others to make a combined total of 120 deer a year, just shooting at paper was not satisfying for me. To be allowed to stalk(hunt) deer, you have to use a rifle with a muzzle energy of over 1700ft/lbs of energy. Most all loads for the 45-60 fall way below this figure, many of the loads posted here do as well, I had to ask an expert for advise and guidance. To my request for load data came one person whom has shone above all others with his advice and load data, Silver Rings!! he replied to my p.m. asking if he had any loads that would help me support my request to hunt deer legal in the U.K. with a 45-60. I have just received the reply from the Chief Constable of Norfolk, stating there is no published data of 45-60 loads in the U.K. no person has been granted the right to hunt deer in the U.K. with this calibre, HOWEVER because of the data you have provided stating many deer legal loads, you will be the first person in the U.K. allowed the use of a 45-60 for deer control and any other legal quarry, I cannot wait to join you guys in hunting deer with an American icon, my lever action 45-60 rifle, Silver Rings, thank you sir for your help, from the other side of the pond. deerwarden  ;D
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Roosterman on November 29, 2012, 06:47:57 PM
Shot some SR 4759 today. 24 gr and a 405 gr bullet.  Fired 10 shots, 6 of the shots were 1 5/8" with a couple flyer 2" out....probably my fault on the flyers.
 Had no luck with BP. Using KIK and swiiss with 300 and 385 gr bullets. 3" groups at best, lots of leading. :-\
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Grizzly Adams on November 29, 2012, 09:59:57 PM
I bought a Ulberti 45-60 because of my love of western movies, my favorite being Tom Horne man of the west. It was an impulsive buy, as soon as I picked it up I had to own one. Unlike you guys, here in the UK we have to prove a use/need for a firearm, as an avid deer hunter shooting around 40-50 a year and controlling others to make a combined total of 120 deer a year, just shooting at paper was not satisfying for me. To be allowed to stalk(hunt) deer, you have to use a rifle with a muzzle energy of over 1700ft/lbs of energy. Most all loads for the 45-60 fall way below this figure, many of the loads posted here do as well, I had to ask an expert for advise and guidance. To my request for load data came one person whom has shone above all others with his advice and load data, Silver Rings!! he replied to my p.m. asking if he had any loads that would help me support my request to hunt deer legal in the U.K. with a 45-60. I have just received the reply from the Chief Constable of Norfolk, stating there is no published data of 45-60 loads in the U.K. no person has been granted the right to hunt deer in the U.K. with this calibre, HOWEVER because of the data you have provided stating many deer legal loads, you will be the first person in the U.K. allowed the use of a 45-60 for deer control and any other legal quarry, I cannot wait to join you guys in hunting deer with an American icon, my lever action 45-60 rifle, Silver Rings, thank you sir for your help, from the other side of the pond. deerwarden  ;D

Outstanding!  Keep us posted on performance. :)
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Joe Lansing on December 02, 2012, 04:47:36 PM
 Leverman,
    According to my calculations, a 300 gr. bullet would need a muzzle velocity of1600 fps to give you a muzzle energy of 1700 ft lbs.      This is taken from "COMPLETE GUIDE TO HANDLOADING", by Philip B. Sharpe.

                                                                                                             JL
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: leverman on December 03, 2012, 03:25:24 PM
Hi there, I'm loading up the 300gn Lyman 2640191 bullet with I4198 starting from 31 growns up to 34 grams of I4198, when I get to 1700+fps, I'll be happy with that as that will give me 1924ft/Ids, I'll then tweak it for accuracy etc, just loaded 3 each of 31, 32, 33, 34gns of I4198, with Puff-Lon, slightly compressed. I'm looking at some rear sights now, really don't know what to go with, Lyman or Marbles, 1873 or the 76 model, or a ladder sight. Of all my rifles, this one has real class and a look of authority about it, a true classic in my opinion, and I'm looking forward to hunting with it as your forefathers did. Our fallow deer here are available to hunt all year round, around the size of your whitetail deer, we also have Red, Sika, Roe, Muntjac, and Chinese water deer as well to hunt, Muntjac are very challenging as they seldom stop walking while feeding, this will be something I've longed to do, to hunt with a lever action rifle, a challenge that I will enjoy immensely. Leverman. ::)
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on December 03, 2012, 07:09:17 PM
The closests British round would be .450,.400 Nitro-for-black, 2 - 3/8" It shows a lower me as the factory bullet was either 230 gr or 270 gr.  With the 300 grainer, getting the required me from your 45-60 should be easy.

I would suggest a tang sight, with the nod to the Marbles as it has windage adjustments.

My son hunts deer in Cambridgeshire and has to use a sound moderator.  I guess you hunt in a less populated area, but how would you moderate a levergun?  Use a half magazine and a creative front sight mount?
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Roosterman on December 04, 2012, 09:02:31 AM
Hi there, I'm loading up the 300gn Lyman 2640191 bullet with I4198 starting from 31 growns up to 34 grams of I4198, when I get to 1700+fps, I'll be happy with that as that will give me 1924ft/Ids, I'll then tweak it for accuracy etc, just loaded 3 each of 31, 32, 33, 34gns of I4198, with Puff-Lon, slightly compressed. I'm looking at some rear sights now, really don't know what to go with, Lyman or Marbles, 1873 or the 76 model, or a ladder sight. Of all my rifles, this one has real class and a look of authority about it, a true classic in my opinion, and I'm looking forward to hunting with it as your forefathers did. Our fallow deer here are available to hunt all year round, around the size of your whitetail deer, we also have Red, Sika, Roe, Muntjac, and Chinese water deer as well to hunt, Muntjac are very challenging as they seldom stop walking while feeding, this will be something I've longed to do, to hunt with a lever action rifle, a challenge that I will enjoy immensely. Leverman. ::)
Goog luck with a 300 gr bullet. I can't get mine to shoot 300 gainers. 4" to 5" groups @ 100 yards. Good enough for deer I suppose. Mine shoots a 405gr best, 1 5/8 @ 100 yards. I second the marbels peep sight. I put one on mine and am very happy with it. I can now shoot the gun to it's potential.
 If you find an accurate 300gr load, let us know!
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: leverman on December 04, 2012, 03:03:00 PM
Sir Charles, the 45-60 will be iron sights only, and definitely no moderator, want to use it as is, with addition only of a better iron sight, looks like the marbles. I live in Norfolk and work near Cambridge (Barton Mills) so close to your son's county. Rooster, I also have the Lee 340grns mold, will try that as well for accuracy against the 300 gr bullet. Went for the Lyman 300 as I saw lots of posts saying it was the original bullet weight and type, will let you know how I get on. deerwarden.
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Rowdy Fulcher on December 07, 2012, 11:01:24 AM
Leverman
Good luck with your adventure . The 300 grain bullet works fine in my rifle .
Title: Re: 45-60 Winchester smokeless load info
Post by: Snapshot on May 05, 2013, 02:08:45 PM
Did not see... ??? any one tryed the Vithavouri N135. ???

I slicked my rifle, took it all apart and followded "Tom Horn`s" recipie on how to! Thanks Tom :)

Now I have a few rounds with the Finland powder N135. 43grns.  and the 350grns bullet.
I have some 300grns to try out next.
Title: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Palatine Tom on May 15, 2014, 06:29:35 AM
Dear all,

I am now also a happy Chapp 1876 45-60 owner. :) :D ;D

My bullet is a lead RCBS Style 320 grain FN.

Following powder is on hand:  Trail Boss, VV320, VV 330, VV340 and Swiss 3.

I am looking for a good target load for 50 and 100 meters.  (For hunting only BP would be my choice)  ;D.

Any loading data hints are very very welcome.

greetings from sunny Bavaria

Palatine Tom
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: doketx on May 15, 2014, 09:00:46 PM
Palatine Tom,
     Herzliche Grusse aus Texas.  Lyman's 49th loading book suggests 10-13 grains of Trail Boss for the 330 grain H.P., cast.  The best load for the 45-60 that I've found is 9 grains of Unique under a 300 grain cast flat nose, but that doesn't seem to be one of the powders you have.  Try this and let me know how it works for you.  By the way, where in "sunny Bavaria are you?  I was an exchange student in Regensburg back in the Dark Ages.
                                                                                                         Alles gute,
                                                                                                         Dave
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Palatine Tom on May 16, 2014, 02:33:35 AM
Thanks Dave so  lets start with TB and see...

I live close to Augsburg and work in Munich - so live could be much worse  ;D

This weekend its 1866 and 1886 time :D :D



Greetings

Tom
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: doketx on May 20, 2014, 06:13:38 PM
Palatine Tom,
     Please let me know how the Trail Boss worked out.

                                                               Dave
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Rowdy Fulcher on May 21, 2014, 09:18:55 PM
Howdy
Trail Boss is a Excellent choice for plinking around . I have used it and like it . Was stationed in Germany from 1984 to 1986 loved it . The Beer was Great and the people were Friendly .
Title: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Palatine Tom on May 23, 2014, 05:33:09 AM
Dear all,
Nothing changed here in Bavaria people and beer still fine :-* :-*

1. I have a RCBS 45-70 die set. What is your advice to reload 45-60 with this set? How do you do it properly
2. Ditto but how to reload properly the 45-90 ?

Greetings

Tom
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on May 23, 2014, 10:00:41 AM
Dear all,
Nothing changed here in Bavaria people and beer still fine :-* :-*
1. I have a RCBS 45-70 die set. What is your advice to reload 45-60 with this set? How do you do it properly
2. Ditto but how to reload properly the 45-90 ?
Greetings
Tom

I have done neither, but for .45-70 I only size just enough to firmly hold the bullet. My thoughts are to try various sizing settings on your .45-70 sizing die until you get a round that will stay together and chamber properly.

If you insist on a correct die set, there may be regular dies at regular prices, but MY choice of specialty die makers is C-H 4D;

http://www.ch4d.com/

I think specialty dies will be harder to find in Europe, so try adapting/adjusting what you have before spending the big euro's!

P.S: Here is the LEE set;  http://leeprecision.com/v-ltd-3-die-45-60.html
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: doketx on June 18, 2014, 05:35:55 PM
Mr. Silver Rings,
      ??? I'd like to pick your knowledgeable brain concerning some 45-60 loads I've tried.  The best powder I've ever found is Unique, but it's terribly hard to find around here, so I've tried 2400 which I have great success with in my 45-70.  I've also tried Reloder 7, which I've had no luck with in either caliber.  My question:  The unique is no problem and is extremely accurate.  When I shoot the Reloder 7 or the 2400 in the 45-60 the cases come out sooty, as if the case isn't sealing against the chamber walls.  Can you perhaps tell me why?  What can I do?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

                                                                                                                 Dave
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Silver_Rings on June 18, 2014, 08:52:10 PM
Howdy Dave,

If the loads shoot accurately I would not worry about the soot.  The soot could come from a load that is too light to fully expand the case and seal the gases in.  What size bullets are you using?  They should be in the range of .457-459.  If they are too small they may allow gas leakage.

If the load is accurate and powerful enough for what you are planning on using it for, the brass polisher will clean the soot off.

Silver Rings   
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: doketx on June 18, 2014, 09:02:35 PM
Silver rings,
     Thanks for the prompt reply.  Yes, the soot comes off after polishing, no problem.  I was just wondering why I got soot with Reloder 7 and 2400 and not with Unique.  The accuracy with the Unique is great, so I know it's not the bullets.  I just can't find any Unique,  so I'm having to make do with what I can find.  I guess I'll just load up a few rounds a little bit hotter, and maybe that will help.  Thanks again for the help.

                                                                                                     Dave
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Silver_Rings on June 19, 2014, 07:21:45 PM
Hi Dave,

If you are using a light load, you will probably get more consistent burn of the powder if you use a filler to hold the powder near the primer.  I use polyfilling, like for filling pillows.  Others use about a 1/4 sheet of toilet paper, others user different things.
 
Silver Rings
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on June 19, 2014, 09:59:18 PM
Teddy Bear Guts. :D  Free or at a nominal price at thrift stores 8)

Another option is to go to a slower powder. My favorite is 4895. I works in many rifle cases and can be loaded down to 60% of a max listed load with great results.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: hammer1 on August 04, 2014, 05:49:07 PM
Thought I would add to the list. Silver Rings gave me some guidance on a load, it was 325 gr fp from buffalo bore, started with 41 grs. Of varget. Stopped at 42, chronographed at 1440, rounded edges still on primers. Thanks, Silver Rings, with the guidance. These loads worked in my rifle, use caution.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: hammer1 on August 24, 2014, 01:17:37 PM
Ive been experimenting more, with 325 and 350 grs. Ive settled on 40.5 grs of  varget for the 350s it gave me 1356 fps, I also tried 42 grs with the 325 grs. Unfortunately, the chrono zoned out and wouldnt give me a velocity. I tried up to 42 grs with the 350s, lazercasts, the strange thing, the velocity started to drop for me over 40.5 gr. I also had unburned powder grains over 40.5.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: hammer1 on August 31, 2014, 08:55:41 AM
My last two posts were using fed 210m primers, in jamison 45-60 brass. All the loads were from a uberti 1876, with a 28 inch barrel.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Gabriel Law on October 04, 2014, 02:59:31 PM
What OAL are you guys using for your 45-60 cartridges?  I'm using BACo 459300 bullets, and if they are crimped in the groove provided for the purpose, the OAL is ~ 2.187".  Today, I loaded some out to 2.290" - in the top of the upper grease groove - and they ;cycle fine in my Uberti rifle.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: hammer1 on October 05, 2014, 02:04:16 PM
Gabriel, ive been running 2.290 overall, its been working fine in mine
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Gabriel Law on October 06, 2014, 02:53:56 PM
Hammer, that's encouraging.  I was thinking that the closer I can get that bullet to the rifling, without having to travel through space to get there, the better for accuracy.  I just spent $613 for a new MVA tang sight to improve my shooting, and every little bit helps.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Palatine Tom on October 08, 2014, 08:34:54 AM
Dear all,

with respect to the subject "bullet travel through space to the rifling..."

I know this is relevant for long range modern cartrige shooting like .308 and so on.

My question: Is this travel through space topic for our old 45-60//45-70 or 44-40 Cartridges as relevant for precission?


Greetings

Tom

Hammer, that's encouraging.  I was thinking that the closer I can get that bullet to the rifling, without having to travel through space to get there, the better for accuracy.  I just spent $613 for a new MVA tang sight to improve my shooting, and every little bit helps.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Gabriel Law on October 08, 2014, 01:47:44 PM
Tom:  it might not make any difference in accuracy at all, but i think it has to.  I know that in my 50-90 Sharps, I get best accuracy if I seat the bullet to just touch the bore.  To be honest, right now I cannot remember if it's the throat or the rifling that makes contact.  I am not too excited about the accuracy I'm getting in my Uberti 45-60 (yet), so I'm doing the best to make accurate ammo.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on November 06, 2014, 09:37:10 AM
When you refer to the Lee crimp die, I presuming you mean that collet die that can be used for any bullet.  Where can I get such a beast?  Thanks ahead of time.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Silver_Rings on November 07, 2014, 06:55:15 PM
The easy way to get the Lee factory crimp die is to contact Lee.  The die is a custom item and I think will run about $80.  You can buy a 45-70 Lee factory crimp die and modify it by filing / grinding.  This modification is discribed in a post here a number of years ago.

Silver Rings
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on November 08, 2014, 09:38:40 AM
     As it sits, the cost is still pretty reasonable- $25 w/ a six buck tooling fee.  The guy I spoke w/ yesterday said there is about a 6 week lead time.  They had some 45-90's on hand, but as you've pointed out, grinding would be necessary.
     My thought is that a 45-60 die would work on any of the 45 straight wall cases, and a factory crimp die would hold the bullets in the tubular magazine better than a roll crimp.  From reading this thread, it sounds like the best loads fill the case anyway.  Am I wrong on my assumptions?
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on November 09, 2014, 11:26:02 AM
Here is another question for the board- The factory brass for the 45-60 (jameison, I presume) has a rim slightly larger than my 45-70 stuff- my shellholder for the 45-70 is a little tight.  Has anyone else encountered this, and what were their solutions ???
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: rbertalotto on November 10, 2014, 07:38:24 AM
Bullets next to lands....

The folks that really get the most accuracy out of lead bullets and cartridges, "breech seat" the bullet. They force a bullet into the lands without a cartridge. Then they take a cartridge full of powder and chamber it behind the bullet......BANG!

This is the best way to get the best accuracy out of a BPCR. So I'd suggest that getting the bullet as close to the lands as possible will have merit.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on November 23, 2014, 06:13:40 PM
Hello the Camp
     I am a newbie to the board, but have found in the past several days that the 45-60 responds amazingly well to uniforming the flash holes and uniforming the primer pockets.  My rifle (Uberti) also likes Federal primers in both Black and Smokeless loads.  I am using the JBL brass, so such might not be a universal.
 
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on November 30, 2014, 01:20:04 PM
Paying tribute to Silver Rings, and his format:
     Firing from a Uberti w/ 28" barrel, Altitude 5975, Temp 17.9 F, barometer 29.56
     38.0 grs. IMR 4895, Jamison cases, Fed 210 primers, 300gr Meistercast bullets
                                                              Hi- 1337
                                                              Lo- 1258
                                                             Avg.- 1295
                                                             SD- 27.3
     Grp size 1" to 1 1/2" (5 shot groups) @ 50 yards, 15 rds fired  

... and as always, not tested for pressure, use @ your own risk
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Gabriel Law on December 03, 2014, 11:44:01 AM
Matt 45:  what sights are you using on your rifle?
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on December 03, 2014, 06:27:31 PM
Still waiting on the base for the MVA sight- same as yours.  These groups were shot w/ the stock buckhorn.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on December 03, 2014, 10:05:14 PM
Paying tribute to Silver Rings, and his format:
     Firing from a Uberti w/ 28" barrel, Altitude 5975, Temp 17.9 F, barometer 29.56
     38.0 grs. IMR 4895, Jamison cases, Fed 210 primers, 300gr Meistercast bullets
                                                              Hi- 1337
                                                              Lo- 1258
                                                             Avg.- 1295
                                                             SD- 27.3
     Grp size 1" to 1 1/2" (5 shot groups) @ 50 yards, 15 rds fired  

... and as always, not tested for pressure, use @ your own risk

Matt; I'm glad it worked out for you. In my .45-70 BLR/src I stopped at the same load as the recoil in a carbine is quite stout.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on December 04, 2014, 09:43:33 AM
I don't have an Oealher (sp?) but...  The case expansion @ the base of the case is quite a bit less than the 30grs. of 4198, so I've got a batch of 40grs of 4895 to test.  Needless to say, and to give all credit where it is due, I think Silver Rings has done most of the grunt work.
     Anyone ever tried WW 748?  I've had good luck w/ that in my 45-70
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on January 29, 2015, 04:28:59 PM
Temp- 29.1 F, barometer- 29.76, Altitude 5795 ft.
Uberti w/ 28" barrel
42 grs IMR 4895, Fed large rifle primers

AVG- 1477 fps
Hi- 1527
Low- 1428
SD- 37.9

I note that this is not as consistent as the 38 gr. load was.  This tells me this is probably the top level for this powder.  Group size is still consistent @ the 1.25 @ 50 yds., however.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Zeroin on February 17, 2015, 05:18:48 PM
Ok, new to reloading the 45-60 so why don't I see anybody using jacketed bullets?
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Silver_Rings on February 17, 2015, 06:12:58 PM
I don't need jacketed bullets for shooting targets.  Also jacked bullets are not allowed in CAS matches. 

Some people have talked on this forum about using jacketed bullets.  No reason you can't use them.

Silver Rings
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on February 25, 2015, 07:41:52 PM
Just went through the intermediate testing with Varget, and am about ready to stop testing.  The results are excellent- 3/4 groups being the standard.  This is a powder/ bullet combo (Varget- 300 gr cast) that I would suggest as a starting point for Uberti barrels.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Jake C on August 24, 2015, 09:41:35 AM
Got a quick question for you good folks. With a Uberti replica '76, there's no issue with using hard lead bullets, right? I know with originals, you want to keep it soft, but when I get my '76, I was planning on using the Missouri Bullet Co.'s 300 grain RNFPs, which have a brittle of 18. Figured I'd ask before I spent my money.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: larryo_1 on August 24, 2015, 03:07:05 PM
Jake:
I do not have a 45-60 but, rather a 45-75. You can use hard lead bullets if you want but I use 16:1 bullets of my own alloy.  I have tried the hard lead ones but my rifle did not like them very much.  The bullets that I use are cast from a custom Hoch mold and are for the 350 grain bullet.  Now, my suggestion would be to find someone who might part with a few of those hard ones to try first before spending a bunch of money on a bunch of them. Now I am not saying that they are bad or whatnot as each rifle has its own pecularities about what it likes the most.  Mine--after a whole bunch of trials and errors seems to like what I am using.  I do n ot know if this helps you or not but figgured that it might help you a mite.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Jake C on August 24, 2015, 03:23:47 PM
Jake:
I do not have a 45-60 but, rather a 45-75. You can use hard lead bullets if you want but I use 16:1 bullets of my own alloy.  I have tried the hard lead ones but my rifle did not like them very much.  The bullets that I use are cast from a custom Hoch mold and are for the 350 grain bullet.  Now, my suggestion would be to find someone who might part with a few of those hard ones to try first before spending a bunch of money on a bunch of them. Now I am not saying that they are bad or whatnot as each rifle has its own pecularities about what it likes the most.  Mine--after a whole bunch of trials and errors seems to like what I am using.  I do n ot know if this helps you or not but figgured that it might help you a mite.

Thank you, much appreciated. I think Missouri Bullet Co. sells sample packs of their bullets, so I'll grab one of those, when that day comes and try them. If those don't work, I'll try to find a company that sells soft-cast bullets in the right size/weight.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Gabriel Law on August 25, 2015, 06:54:42 PM
Hard bullets leaded my bore badly in my Uberti '76 45-60.  Accuracy suffers when a barrel leads up.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Grapeshot on October 06, 2015, 10:22:39 PM
Stick with soft lead at 20:1 Lead/Tin mix.  If you need it harder add TIN.  This will allow the boolit to obdurate and fill the bore and keep the hot gases behind the boolit where it belongs.

{Of course you can use Jacketed bullets.}
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: DTS on November 14, 2015, 03:49:35 PM
Thank you, much appreciated. I think Missouri Bullet Co. sells sample packs of their bullets, so I'll grab one of those, when that day comes and try them. If those don't work, I'll try to find a company that sells soft-cast bullets in the right size/weight.

My brother's .45/60 M76 leads badly with trail boss loads using hard commercial bullets, but the rifle's accuracy was still very good yesterday, at 100 meters.
With soft bullets, no leading.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on November 21, 2016, 09:04:45 AM
Question for the board- with Black powder loads, has anyone ever tried enlarging the flash hole to .096?  This is a must for my old trapdoor- considering that considerable powder compaction happens w/ the 45-60, I was wondering if it helped?
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Buzzard Bayne on March 10, 2017, 10:01:05 AM
I have a Uberti 1876 in 45-60.  I worked up some loads using the 350 grain Plated Flat Point from Berry's Bullets.  I used IMR 4198, Jamison Brass, and CCI 200 primers.  I shot five shot groups

Grains   Average FPS     SD
25.0      1224               36.4
25.5      1266               30.7
26.0      1284               21.8

All shot less than 2 inch groups at 100 yards. 
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Snkbittin on March 17, 2018, 06:13:50 AM
I have a Uberti 1876 in 45-60.  I worked up some loads using the 350 grain Plated Flat Point from Berry's Bullets.  I used IMR 4198, Jamison Brass, and CCI 200 primers.  I shot five shot groups

Grains   Average FPS     SD
25.0      1224               36.4
25.5      1266               30.7
26.0      1284               21.8

All shot less than 2 inch groups at 100 yards. 
Buzzard what are you using for crimp die?...i have a bunch of Berry but thought i wouldn't be able to use them
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on January 20, 2019, 01:13:19 PM
Here is a load w/ Black powder (Shutzen FFG) and the cases prepared ala Wolf (flash holes drilled to 0.096).  BAC 350 gr bullets used
AVG Vel- 1233
Hi- 1246
low- 1214
SD- 10.6

Contrast this w/ not boring flash holes, using powder compacting die, etc.  Hi was 1293, low was 1150, SD was 21.7.  However, at this time, the results on the range were disappointing- 2 1/4 at 50 yards.  That could be from bad eyes.  I will try wads next
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: hammer1 on October 07, 2019, 05:54:25 PM
Has anyone tried H4895, I am interested in trying it with 325-350 gr fp lead. Thanks
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on October 10, 2019, 09:44:05 AM
     I didn't use H-4895, but I have used IMR 4895, so the burn rate is almost identical.  The data is on this thread, back there somewhere.  I started w/36 grs, ended up w/ 40.  The best result was right in the middle @ 37.5.  Vel was 1337 fps. (300 gr. bullet) w a SD of27.3
To be honest, I had better luck w/ 4198.  As to the difference between the bullet weights, I have noticed very little difference w/ anything between 300gr and 350.  If you do use H- 4895, I'd start out w/ the 33 gr start up.  I think Ken Waters tried that years ago.  he settled w/ 4198.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: hammer1 on October 12, 2019, 06:59:23 PM
Thanks, Matt45
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: hammer1 on October 15, 2019, 04:29:13 PM
Matt, I want to stick with 4895, because I am in a area, where powders can be difficult to come by. I am very short on variety which I used for a while, now, can't find any. H4895, I have a lot of, and it's easy to find
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Chuy Chacon on November 03, 2019, 12:16:03 PM
Go back to pg2


Chuy
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Mdee on February 15, 2020, 04:55:00 AM
Anyone have trail boss loading data for 45-60 WCF with 350 grain RNFP? To be used in Uberti 1876
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: treebeard on February 15, 2020, 01:25:05 PM
Got a quick question for you good folks. With a Uberti replica '76, there's no issue with using hard lead bullets, right? I know with originals, you want to keep it soft, but when I get my '76, I was planning on using the Missouri Bullet Co.'s 300 grain RNFPs, which have a brittle of 18. Figured I'd ask before I spent my money.

It is worth trying different bullet company?s as they cast different brinell hardness numbers. for instance I looked at Oregon Trail Bullets and they advertise 15 brinell as compared to 18 for Missouri.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Gabriel Law on September 25, 2020, 02:30:31 PM
Mdee:  I've shot a lot of Trail boss out of my Uberti 1876.  I shoot 14 gr. TB with both the 300 and 350 gr. bullets, but get better accuracy with the 300 gr. and that powder.  My smaller slugfs come from a BACO 459300 mould, and the larger from a Lyman 457122 HP.
The 350 gr. bullets go into a little over 2" at 50 yds (rest), whereas the 300's will chew a ragged hole at the same range.  My rifle has a MVA midrange Vernier rear sight and a MVA globe front.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: nohorse on January 24, 2021, 04:18:42 PM
Hello everyone.  I have been wanting to get a Uberti 1876 for a couple years.  I finally got one the other day, a Crossfire Carbine in .45-60.  I have been studying all the loading data in this thread and wanted to thank everyone for getting me on the right track.  I went to the range today with 6 rounds, that was all the brass I could make in 1 day due to my arthritis.  If  I Shortened more cases my hands would have been on fire, I will make more a few at a time.  I am also waiting on a die set, so now I am using a 45-70 die set...so no crimp on the rounds.  I have also emailed Lee about a factory crimp die.  I also can not find any 300 or 325 grain bullets, so I have to use the 405 powder coated bullets from Acme that I use in my 45-70’s.  I did domy homework and detrmined that I have to shorten my brass to 1.845 in order to crimp my 405’s and have an over all length of 2.290.  I made the 6 rounds (withoutcrimps)and while test feeding them through the action one round had the bullet set back to 2.23, I think that was the flier on my target.  The other 5 were pretty much in one gob at 50 yards, about 6” high.  No pressure signs with 23.0 5744, cases would practically fall out of the chamber and no soot on the brass.  There was some unburned powder so I will experiment with fillers and some Varget also.  Thanks again to evryone for all your help.

Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: nohorse on January 31, 2021, 01:00:34 PM
If anyone is still following this thread, I have some more data.  i tried Varget with my powder coated 405 bullets.  I modified my Lee factory crimp die and used that to crimp all loads. Uberti 22” Carbine .45-60, 2.285 over all, case 1.845. No fillers. CCI 200 primers, temp 42 degreesF

Varget 36.0 - very accurate, 32 fps ex spread, 1172 fps average
          37.0 - wild accuracy, 100 fps ex spread, 1238 avg, case head expansion .5035
All Varget loads had a ton of unburned powder.  I discontinued using Varget and switched to H4895

H4895 36.0 - ok accuracy, 1220 avg/ 34 ex spread, .503 che
          37.0 - better accuracy, 1267/33, .503 che
          38.0 - very accurate, 1294/30, .5035 che
Much less, almost none, unburned powder.  Case head expansion with 38.0 was only .5035, very mild.  I will try 39.0 to get to my target velocity
 of 1320-1340 with nice accuracy.

5744 powder no fillers
         23.0 - 1242/7 very accurate, .5035 case head expansion, moderate powder residue almost none if elevate muzzle before each shot
         24.0 - 1292/25 accurate, .504 che, less powder residue
5744 was extremely accurate with 23.0, as charges went up accuracy went down, adding 1/4 sheet of toilet paper as a filler would tighten up extreme spreads and reduce powder residue.  Accuracy would improve, but it would be the same if I elevated muzzle before each shot to settle powder without filler.

5744 with Remington 405 jacketed bullets crimped over driving band for 2.280 over all length
24.0 - 1210/7 very accurate, .5035 che
Going to try 25.0 witłh this load
 
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Slamfire on March 10, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Hey nohorse , yup ,still following now that I have a 45-60 ( Chappie ,re-build ). Went to the range with my new to me , Caldwell chrono., and " 5 " rds. here are my results. Don't have a APP thing'y ,, yet , cloudy w/ 15-20+ mph wind .

      powder H4198 @ 26grs.
     457122HP @ .342 grs. + - ( cast @ 20-1 ) no leading in barrel, ever !.
     Case,,,,,,,,,,,, 1.880
     OAL ,,,,,,,,,,,,,2.280             
     1- 1298 fps.
     2- 1329 fps.
     3-1297 fps.
     4- 1268 fps.
     5- 1178 fps. 
                         YMMV,, these loads are for my rifle , use at your own risk , etc. ,etc.

      coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

                                 
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Slamfire on April 25, 2021, 11:17:39 AM
 Just a quick up-date !!

 Testing w/ IMR-3031, I used 3 different case length , " BUT " ,, low ES's ,, don't seem to = most accurate ?????
 
  All rds. crimped to the front edge of driving band ,, Lyman , 457122 HP , sized .458 ( home lube ) @ .343grs.
  Imr-3031  @ 31grs.+ .4 Dacron filler ,,, (1) 1330fps. (2) 1333 fps. (3) 1330fps. = a spread of 3 fps. ( not chisel-ed in stone ).

 Have loaded 10 more rds. the same ,,, will report when tested .( we now return to your regular program )

  coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Mdee on May 13, 2021, 05:22:27 PM
Loads from my 45-60 (Uberti 76) using trail boss. Just chrono'd at steel so couldn't really determine the accuracy:
Powder: Trail Boss
Projectile: 350gr RNFP lead
OAL: 2.25
10gr  Av: 964 fps   es: 26 fps sd: 8 fps
11gr  Av: 1025 fps   es: 8 fps sd: 3 fps
12gr  Av: 1085 fps   es: 9 fps sd: 4 fps
13gr  Av: 1108 fps   es: 36 fps sd: 15 fps
14gr  Av: 1121 fps   es: 64 fps sd: 24 fps

these loads are for my rifle , use at your own risk , etc.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: QueensHorseman on May 14, 2021, 09:51:41 AM
Thanks to each of you for continuing to add to this thread.  I'm deciding what mold to buy for my '76 Uberti carbine and would prefer one bullet that would work with both black powder and regular powders.  Any modern made suggestions in the 300ish grain weight, good metplat for hunting, carry sufficient lube for black and have a properly placed crimp groove?
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Two Horses on August 17, 2021, 12:15:15 AM
Quick intro to the group

After an 18 month wait, I am the proud owner of an 1876 Uberti Centennial rifle in .45-60. A few things you notice right away is this this rifle will chamber cartridges larger than the standard 2.25 OAL. In fact it chambered Steinel ammo which was 2.295". The rifle has a ridiculously heavy trigger pull of 10 pounds. After disassembling and cleaning the 76's internals (along with some polishing) we got it down to 9 pounds (Still way too heavy) The good news is it has no issue chambering cut down .45-70 brass with its thicker rim. In fact it fed just about everything we put in it. The folks at Uberti have also given the 28" barrel a 1:20 twist rate (Forget what their website says about it being 1:40 . . . it's wrong).

Load development with this rifle was a bit of a challenge. Thankfully I started out with two boxes of Steinel .45-60 factory ammo with a 300 Grain coated RNFP bullet, 28.5 grains of powder and 1.89" brass to test with. This factory ammunition was spectacularly accurate, however at $4 a round it simply wasn't feasible. It did however set the stage for developing handholds from cut down .45-70 brass.

I had read the work on .45-60 reloading by Brian Pearce and decided to start with the Lyman 457191 292 grain bullet, a brass case length of 1.81" and various charges of Accurate 5744 powder. Sadly the bullets were all fliers and not one of them would stabilize despite cutting the cases to 1.81 and crimping on the top lube groove. I don't think we ever got a decent crimp doing this way and worse the bullet failed to stabilize. In fact it was so bad that at 100 yards we could not hit a 6' target! Moving back to 25 yards the closest shot to the bullseye was 17" in every direction with no obvious grouping at any velocity between 1200 and 1400 FPS.

I went back and chambered one round of the Steinel ammo (1390 FPS) and put a hole in the bullseye. At this point the question of why the bullet wouldn't stabilize ended up with a call to Steinel. They were obviously not willing to to give away any info. But I had already taken apart their ammo, mic'd everything and examined the powder. A comparison of the two loads was narrowed down by using empty Steinel brass, 27 grains of 5744 and identical velocities. The only difference was the bullet. The Steinel was highly accurate and the Lyman was nothing but fliers. An examination of the two bullets showed the following difference. The Steinel was 300 Grain RNFP (It looks very much like the RCBS 45-300) was coated and contained a single small lube groove with no lube. The Lyman 457191 was a RNFP lead cast with three large lube grooves full of lube. We surmised as to why the 457191 would not stabilize. Our best guess was there was not sufficient base on the bullet with the three huge lube grooves. Or perhaps the base of the bullet was either being torn off or compressed into the groove above it. We did not recover the bullet so it's just a guess. But the results on paper were obvious. Nothing close to the target center and oblong holes in the target where the bullet passed through partially sideways. I decided to slug the barrel and found it was .457 in diameter. We then did a twist rate testing and found it was 1:20.

I fed the data into a gyroscopic bullet stabilization calculator that indicated at the given twist rate it would be over stabilized. Which caused more questions than answers. It turned out Uberti's twist rate for the .45-60 on their website was wrong.

We abandoned the Lyman .458 292 Grain RNFP bullet and began testing with Buffalo Arms 300 Grain .459 RNFP and a 325 Grain .460 Gas Check bullet made by a local. Both were had excellent crimp grooves and both worked well with AA5744 and IMR4198 powder. But the 325 Gas Check .460 bullet with 27 grains of 5744 produced the tightest groups. We tested this combination, using charges from 24 to 28 grains. My Centennial seemed to like the 27 grains of 5744 with the 325 GC bullet the best. It produced a nice tight group that went through the chronograph at 1380 FPS, within 10 FPS of the Steinel factory ammunition.

I happened to have some Hornady FTX bullets on the bench so I cut down some .45-70 cases to 1.785 and using 27 grains of 5744, I seated the FTX. This combination crimps well, slides right into the magazine tube, rides up the elevator and goes right into the chamber just as slick as can be. It also produced good groups.

With a good load in hand, I put long range soul sights on it and will be working on seeing just how far this 76 will throw a hunk of lead. Its been a fun a project, still lots to do yet. But I am looking forward to it!
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Black River Smith on August 17, 2021, 12:49:55 PM
Two Horses,

Just to clarify something about your text.  The standard OCL of most of the 1876 cartridges is 1.89" max.  I have cut my to 1.91" because of noticed 'fire-sizing' in my chamber.  The OAL of all the 1876 loaded cartridges is 2.25".  If you used Wikipedia as you guide it is wrong at the listing of 2.15".  I used the Lyman 49th ED section of 1876 loading as my reference.  I do have other cartridge conversion books that cooberate the 2.25" length.

Hope this helps you in the future.

Congrats on the new rifle and thanks for the very detailed summary of you experience.   I also have a 45/60 but mine does like the Lyman 457191 bullet and original Winchester molded bullets.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Two Horses on August 29, 2021, 05:14:44 PM
You are correct. 2.25. This is why you don't try to write late at night!

Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Slamfire on August 31, 2021, 06:30:57 PM
Been working w/ IMR 3031 & 457191 @ .318gns, in my 45-60 .
 I mostly shoot 5 shot groups.
               
           IMR-3031,,,,,, Primer ,,,,,457191 ,,,,,case OAL,,,,,OAL .
  5rds.,,,,,,31gns ,,,,,,,FED LR,,,,,,.318gns.,,,,,1.870 ,,,,,,,2.270 ,,,HI- 1359 fps. ,,,LOW- 1334 fps. = 25fps.
  5rds.,,,,,30.5gns.,,,,,FED LR ,,,,,,.318gns. ,,,,1.875 ,,,,,,2.270 ,,,HI- 1314fps. ,,,,LOW- 1293 fps. =21fps.
  5rds.,,,,,30.5 w/ .4 Dacron ,,Fed LR .318gns.,1.870 ,,,,,2.270 ,, HI-1299 fps. ,,,,Low - 1283 fps. =16fps.
   I am shooting at 50yds. @ 2 1/2" red diamonds ( dang hard to see ) , getting 2 n1 holes & some 3 holes under a quarter , just can't get them all together ( lol ).

     These loads are for my rifle YMMV,, be safe.
   Maybe need more coffee ,,, Hootmix.
 
   
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: locolarry on January 18, 2022, 10:16:12 PM


We abandoned the Lyman .458 292 Grain RNFP bullet and began testing with Buffalo Arms 300 Grain .459 RNFP and a 325 Grain .460 Gas Check bullet made by a local. Both were had excellent crimp grooves and both worked well with AA5744 and IMR4198 powder. But the 325 Gas Check .460 bullet with 27 grains of 5744 produced the tightest groups. We tested this combination, using charges from 24 to 28 grains. My Centennial seemed to like the 27 grains of 5744 with the 325 GC bullet the best. It produced a nice tight group that went through the chronograph at 1380 FPS, within 10 FPS of the Steinel factory ammunition.

I happened to have some Hornady FTX bullets on the bench so I cut down some .45-70 cases to 1.785 and using 27 grains of 5744, I seated the FTX. This combination crimps well, slides right into the magazine tube, rides up the elevator and goes right into the chamber just as slick as can be. It also produced good groups.

With a good load in hand, I put long range soul sights on it and will be working on seeing just how far this 76 will throw a hunk of lead. Its been a fun a project, still lots to do yet. But I am looking forward to it!
I know its been 5 months since anyone posted on this but would like to ask Two Horses if there is anymore information you could add to the data using the Hornady {325 grain?}FTX bullets. Thanks
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Two Horses on January 18, 2022, 10:50:49 PM
Well, I am not sure exactly what you want to know. I used cut down .45-70 brass to 1.785 and installed a Federal large rifle primer. The powder charge was 27 grains of Accurate 5744 and the FTX bullet was seated using a Redding .45-60 die set. The bullet was seated and crimped at the base of the cannelure. The round performs well and is quite accurate at 100 yards. We were having some issue with pulling rounds off center due to a 10 pound trigger pull. I complained to a buddy about this who is a custom gun builder and he offers to take a look at it. So it has been at his shop getting cleaned up inside, the internals polished and the trigger break set to 4 pounds. Just got the rifle back and so I haven't had a chance to get out to the range and see what velocities and distances we get out of this round.

The miserable cold, snowy weather doesn't help!

If there is something specific you would like to know, please feel free to ask.

Dwayne
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: locolarry on January 18, 2022, 11:40:57 PM
Two horses wondering if you had used other powders with the FTX and what the accuracy/velocity results were and if you had tried the load of 27 gr. 5744 you listed at longer ranges and results of that. I plan to load some of the FTX when I get my 45-70 dies back from the machine shop and pick up my rifle on Saturday. Thanks a lot for the reply.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Two Horses on January 19, 2022, 12:36:24 AM
I used IMR-4198 and got good results, but the AA5744 had better groups. I would plan to test Reloder 7, IMR-4198, AA 5744 and I have a new Lab Radar on order. Once it comes in I will have better data on velocity then.

You mention .45-70 dies. Are you shooting .45-60 or .45-70?   
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: locolarry on January 19, 2022, 10:08:37 AM
I am shooting 45-60. I could not find 45-60 dies so I bought Lee 45-70 dies and factory crimp die and a machine shop is taking 0.22 inches off them for me. I have 5744 and 4198 that I am going to try.Was thinking of also trying the Hornady 250 gr. Monoflex bullet also. . .maybe. Have some 305 gr bear creek coated bullets also but the crimp Groove is not quite in the right spot a member on another forum uses them with good results using a Lee factory crimp die to get them to the correct OAL and Unique powder. Thanks two horses
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Two Horses on January 19, 2022, 11:43:10 AM
Redding makes a 3 die set for the .45-60. #80570.

The .45-60 is a slightly tapered case, whereas the .45-70 is more straight walled. Quality Cartridge is tooling up to run .45-60 Brass here in the next few weeks. I highly suggest you use their brass and get the Redding dies.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on March 24, 2022, 09:16:39 AM
Yesterday I was out shooting Big bertha (my daughter's name for my 76).  She (the rifle, not the kid) really prefers Swiss 1 1/2 fg and the 350gr over the 300 gr.  To the point of group sizes shrinking by 1/2 to 2/3rds.  As a note, all of my cases for black powder have the flash hole drilled out to 0.096 as per J.S. Wolff, so that may be a factor as well 
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: RIDE-RED350R on April 03, 2022, 12:20:17 PM
Hello gents, just spent a good while reading through this thread and there is alot of useful info here, a tip of my hat to all of you for that.

So last December I acquired a used but not abused Uberti '76 Centennial in 45-60. Like Two Horses above accuracy is leaving alot to be desired. My load is shortened Starline 45-70 brass, 26gr of AA5744 and a 300gr coated cast bullet from Chey-Cast. Either this rifle throws wicked curve balls, or it really doesn't like the Chey-Cast bullet. I am not looking to push this hard, 1300-1400fps with the 300gr is all I'm after.

Yesterday I went to the range with my chronograph and fired off about 20rds of this load. At 50yds I couldn't hit paper. I moved the target in to 25yds and STILL didn't hit paper. A couple shots searching for paper using Kentucky windage and elevation I found it was shooting a bit low, but a mile wide to the left. I drifted both the front and rear sights about as far as possible and managed to get it shooting roughly to the center at 25yds. Moved out to 50yds and while elevation was pretty even, I had a 10" horizontal string. Yeah, you could call it "minute of deer" but that would be only qualified at short range, like 50yds and in. I'd like to do better. I had two other rifles I was shooting yesterday and my chrony was malfunctioning, I believe sunlight was interfering with the sensors as I was getting some crazy readings about half the time, registering very low. Recoil and POI did not jive at all with readings. Anyway,nthe readings I got that I trusted to be accurate told me that my rounds were running 1325-1400fps which is right where I'm looking to be. That's the good part.

Tha bad part is the shotgun patterns it's throwing. I'm reluctant to condemn the AA5744 powder as it shoots incredibly accurate in both my 45-70 and 45-90 regardless of charge levels. This brings me to suspect first and foremost that my rifle just doesn't like the bullet I'm using. I have a pretty good stash of Hornady 325gr FTX I may try, but for what I'm doing with this '76 I would kind of prefer to stick with cast. I am very new to cast, this is the first and only firearm I have loaded cast for. I do not cast my own, the state I live in banned the use of lead wheelweights some time ago, so the cheap source of material being rare where I live is kind of an obstacle to the prospect of casting my own.

All of that said, the bottom line is this: can anyone recommend a 300gr commercial cast bullet that shoots well from their Uberti?

Thanks in advance for any incoming advice. 🙂
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on April 03, 2022, 04:46:56 PM
You can buy lots of cast ingots online, just pick what you want. If you have any, try IMR 4198, that works great in my 45/75.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: RIDE-RED350R on April 10, 2022, 08:54:55 PM
Gents, I want to thank you all for taking the time to contribute to this thread.

I tried two different things with my '76 today to see if I could improve it's very dismal grouping.

First I tried using my original brass with a Hornady JHP seated to the cannelure for a COL of 2.237" on 1.810" brass. This is the brass I used with the Chey-Cast 300gr that didn't group for beans. Well, apparently the rifle likes the JHP better, at least on this length case.

Moving on, I made two batches of 5 rounds using the Hornady 300gr JHP and Chey-Cast 300gr but seating them to a COL of 2.290". To get this overall length and get the case mouth squarely in the cannelure of both bullets, I had to trim one batch to 1.840" for the Hornady and 1.875" for the Chey-Cast. Both of these combinations shot very well, grouping right around 1" at 25yds with the JHP and 50yds with the Chey-Cast. I fired the first two batches at short range to make sure I would at least hit paper and by jingles I surely did.

I used 26gr of AA5744 in all three batches and averaged 1370fps with both batches of JHP and averaged 1400fps with the Chey-Cast.

Overall I'm thrilled with this outcome as I was really hoping I could get this rifle to shoot well with the cast bullets.

AA5744 is proving to be an excellent powder all around. I also worked up some stout smokeless 45-90 loads pushing the 300gr Hornady JHP to and average 2330fps with a very low SD and ES while shooting incredibly accurate at all charge levels as I worked up.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: locolarry on June 04, 2022, 12:16:31 AM
Hello gents, just spent a good while reading through this thread and there is alot of useful info here, a tip of my hat to all of you for that.

So last December I acquired a used but not abused Uberti '76 Centennial in 45-60. Like Two Horses above accuracy is leaving alot to be desired. My load is shortened Starline 45-70 brass, 26gr of AA5744 and a 300gr coated cast bullet from Chey-Cast. Either this rifle throws wicked curve balls, or it really doesn't like the Chey-Cast bullet. I am not looking to push this hard, 1300-1400fps with the 300gr is all I'm after.

Yesterday I went to the range with my chronograph and fired off about 20rds of this load. At 50yds I couldn't hit paper. I moved the target in to 25yds and STILL didn't hit paper. A couple shots searching for paper using Kentucky windage and elevation I found it was shooting a bit low, but a mile wide to the left. I drifted both the front and rear sights about as far as possible and managed to get it shooting roughly to the center at 25yds. Moved out to 50yds and while elevation was pretty even, I had a 10" horizontal string. Yeah, you could call it "minute of deer" but that would be only qualified at short range, like 50yds and in. I'd like to do better. I had two other rifles I was shooting yesterday and my chrony was malfunctioning, I believe sunlight was interfering with the sensors as I was getting some crazy readings about half the time, registering very low. Recoil and POI did not jive at all with readings. Anyway,nthe readings I got that I trusted to be accurate told me that my rounds were running 1325-1400fps which is right where I'm looking to be. That's the good part.

Tha bad part is the shotgun patterns it's throwing. I'm reluctant to condemn the AA5744 powder as it shoots incredibly accurate in both my 45-70 and 45-90 regardless of charge levels. This brings me to suspect first and foremost that my rifle just doesn't like the bullet I'm using. I have a pretty good stash of Hornady 325gr FTX I may try, but for what I'm doing with this '76 I would kind of prefer to stick with cast. I am very new to cast, this is the first and only firearm I have loaded cast for. I do not cast my own, the state I live in banned the use of lead wheelweights some time ago, so the cheap source of material being rare where I live is kind of an obstacle to the prospect of casting my own.

All of that said, the bottom line is this: can anyone recommend a 300gr commercial cast bullet that shoots well from their Uberti?

Thanks in advance for any incoming advice. 🙂

 Its not a 300 grain bullet but I finally got out with my Uberti Tom Horn(without the ugly peep sight that was DEFECTIVE from CIMARRON) for the first time using 5744 and 325 gr .358 dia.bullet from buffalo arms #45325FNU worked well for me, very happy with the results. The bad news is it's out of stock right now. I see they have a 300gr .459 Dia from rcbs mold maybe someone could chime in on any experience with it? Tempted to order some to try out, had such good results with the 325 hate to start new.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: yahoody on June 11, 2022, 04:56:03 PM
Anyone have some 45-60 brass..head stamp of no concern, that the'd like to sellout out right for top $  or trade other brass or primers for?

I have large rifle primers if you are in need.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Two Horses on June 11, 2022, 05:35:34 PM
Quality Cartridge is going to be making a run of .45-60 here soon. Rocky Mountain cartridge can make it for you, but its pricey!

You can always trim down .45-70 case to 1.89" and the run them through the .45-60 sizing die.

Dwayne
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: yahoody on June 11, 2022, 06:53:55 PM
Thanks for the  leads on new brass.

I have plenty of new 45-70 brass.  But my brass trimmer, even with a new carbide cutter, isn't currently up to it however.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Trailrider on June 11, 2022, 09:22:07 PM
Have you slugged the bore? Might be the problem if there is a real mismatch in bullet/groove diameters.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Oregon Bill on September 01, 2022, 04:41:29 PM
Yet another caballero here tipping his hat to all you fine folks who contributed your time and hard work to this wonderful thread.
My used but ANIB Uberti with RCBS dies and some other goodies will be here next week, and boy am I looking forward to it.
Checking my pitiful powder stash, I see H4895, H4198 and a little bit of Varget. No 5744, though, a longtime favorite.
Bullets and a mold will be the first priority.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on November 28, 2022, 04:43:11 PM
My New RCBS seat is very tight the 1/4" before the crimp, is this normal? It's so tight is shines the brass.
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-Dhr2tlvawMSNFX4TrMAMCKr_1AnQ3pv5Eb7vbRPURMonpXYMKF7n7FzRyW8gFMx7V7ntXQOewWgszVPDOQPWWw?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1669675361)
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on November 29, 2022, 09:40:05 AM
I wouldn't think it would hurt anything, unless it is shaving the bullet or crumpling the brass.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Black River Smith on November 29, 2022, 10:15:15 AM
King,

To answer your question directly - No.  The RCBS dies I have do not scrape the brass during initial sizing or seating.  My Lee set did scrape when sizing that is why I went to the RCBS.

1. Did you size the brass after cutting it to length?  I do not see the shoulder that the RCBS dies put in the brass.  This is not a straight case cartridge. Original Winchester brass is a slight bottle neck.  The originals used a 0.456" bullet (don't know what Uberti bores measure).  I have an original Winchester 45-60 bullet mold that drops a perfect bullet.  My Chapparal likes the 0.456 bullet but the chamber is cut a little full.  Brass comes out straight.

2. Did you expand that brass with the RCBS 45-60 expander in the set or something different?

3. What size bullet are you planning to use in this Uberti rifle?  I know some people have used larger sized bullets.

Sorry, this is all I can think of, for what may have caused the scraping.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on November 30, 2022, 09:15:19 AM
The brass is once fired resized and primed 45/70 Starline. I had resized in my Lyman 45/70 die. Chopped it, chamfered in and out, then used the new rcbs belling die. I have an assortment of bullets to try, some are .458, others are .459. Some  are 300 gr, some are 350 gr, might even try some 400 gr. I have a wide selection of powders too.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Black River Smith on November 30, 2022, 10:28:06 AM
The brass is once fired resized and primed 45/70 Starline. I had resized in my Lyman 45/70 die. Chopped it, chamfered in and out, then used the new rcbs belling die.

King, the only comment I would make is -- you have made 45-75 and 50-95 from other forms of different caliber brass.  I am certain you had to size them in the proper caliber sizing die to get the correct final shaping (or fireformed them??).  The same is true with 45-70 to 45-60 or 40-60.  After cutting, I chamfer, then size, then trim to final length, then chamfer again, then size again.  You really need to size them in the 45-60 sizer.  Then bell.  This will give you the correct shape the seater/crimp die is expecting.

Try one piece doing 'something like above' and see if you get a different result.  If not, then you may be correct about the tight seater.

In my opinion 'No' die should scrape our brass casings, like you showed above, unless they were previously damaged or mis-manufactured.  If I see any scraping on my brass, I am not happy.  I immediately think of polishing out those dies.  I have bought several RCBS used sets and have had to polish the sizer die because people have mis-used them.

If the same thing happens again call RCBS about a replacement.  Just not right.

PS: Your bullet weights are in the range.  Your diameter will depend on your seater and whether they fit in rifle chamber and your rifle bore.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on December 01, 2022, 08:49:45 AM
OK, resized them all in the 45/60 sizing die, the belled them. I can definitely see the difference. I actually put 45/70 seat die on the turret, screwed it all the way down and it's perfect for the MBC 300 gr Coated bullet. Then ran the shell into the 45/60 seat die to be crimped. Still tight, but no marks like before. There is no contact in the 45/70 seating die at all. Trying to order a FCD from Lee also.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on December 01, 2022, 03:09:53 PM
Ordered the FCD, have to buy them off ebay now. Have to send Lee a resized casing and bullet. They will not be returned. 8 week turnaround.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on December 03, 2022, 08:57:03 AM
This is what my brass looks like after fresh resize and belling with the new RCBS dies. Crimps nice, but very tight in there, never felt that in any seat die before.
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-Dhr2tlvawMSNFX4TrMAMCKr_1AnQ3pv5Eb7vbRPURMp0IRwbExeH9VB8A476a0CN5cYdfB3jRoL_VZILaXEufg?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1670079305)
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on December 14, 2022, 08:11:56 AM
Got the Lee FCD monday, that was fast, only a week. I bet they had some made already. Getting the runaround from RCBS on the seat die. They think I'm over crimping. I think after 40 years of reloading I know how to set up a seat die.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Black River Smith on December 14, 2022, 02:41:20 PM
Do those polish rub spot correspond to the location of the base and the shoulder area between the grease grooves of you bullet?  Then what is the diameter of your bullet you are showing in the picture?

Measure the diameter of the neck area (below the crimp) in your RCBS seat/crimp die.  Measure the diameter of the polished area of the finished bullet.  If they are nearly the same diameter, then maybe your bullet is too large for the casing and dies.  That is what I meant in an earlier post that 'your die will determine the maximum size of the bullet diameter'.

Another idea -- question how long is your COL?  Is it greater than 1.89"?  Just trying to out-guess the problem.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on December 14, 2022, 03:17:20 PM
The bullet in the picture is a Missouri Bullet Co. #2 Buffalo, and the Accurate mold bullets I used are both .459 in diameter, and feed the rifle with no issue. The MBC OAL is 2.27 and the Accurate bullet AOL is 2.26. I have no tool to measure inside a die.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on December 15, 2022, 04:25:47 PM
Sent the seat die to RCBS today.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: Black River Smith on February 10, 2023, 12:32:54 PM
King,
It has been about 2 months.  Did you ever get your die back and have a chance to test it out?
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on February 10, 2023, 03:16:19 PM
Yes, got it back, No haven't done anything with it yet. No empty brass and too cold to shoot.. RCBS guy said I was over flaring the brass. I call BS on that. I've been reloading since 1978, I'm no beginner. I know what over flaring looks like. I'm hoping to get out next week as it's supposed to be in the 50's, and I also have a pair of Uberti Remington 1890's to try out too.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: DrummerBoy on March 04, 2023, 09:02:58 PM
To All,
Absolutely fascinating, informative set of posts. Founded on Silver Rings pioneering work of course but greatly amplified by contributions from many dedicated and enthusiastic 45-60 shooters. Invaluable to a neophyte such as I.
Bravo Zulu All,
Drummer Boy
PS that Steinel ammo is some good stuff!!! 45-60 AND 50-95 as well!!
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on April 16, 2023, 04:45:29 PM
Got the Short Rifle out for a few batches of test loads. The two most promising so far are these.
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-Dhr2tlvawMSNFX4TrMAMCKr_1AnQ3pv5Eb7vbRPURMr8XXx66AIJFElD-HfWjjI2Kwg5ydwHipy3aIZBf9dNYQ?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1681681160)
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-Dhr2tlvawMSNFX4TrMAMCKr_1AnQ3pv5Eb7vbRPURMpmB5ZayRxshEtlUSoUyJSxaAUrgnwgvQnZ_1RWb7NZPA?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1681681160)
 I did a little sight adjusting between the loads, These were all shot with the new Fiber Optic front sight. I'm thinking IMR 4198 is gonna be my go-to powder for smokeless loads.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on May 18, 2023, 05:25:38 PM
Shorty got shot the other day, Fiber optic front sight, marbles Bullseye rear. First load is with 30.0 Rx7 powder.
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-Dhr2tlvawMSNFX4TrMAMCKr_1AnQ3pv5Eb7vbRPURMpoP44nfNr-u3Syok3HNc5U5cYdfB3jRoL_VZILaXEufg?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1684448171)
2nd load is Swiss FF, nice big boom!
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-Dhr2tlvawMSNFX4TrMAMCKr_1AnQ3pv5Eb7vbRPURMraMS0Z-vJxHw5iLkNEmUcuKwg5ydwHipy3aIZBf9dNYQ?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1684448171)
3rd load is Goex FF, liking this one.
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-Dhr2tlvawMSNFX4TrMAMCKr_1AnQ3pv5Eb7vbRPURMqt_F2gBchdsKa9U0xR0EG-qCe7ffHDJpwno-pEcjtJnw?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1684448173)

Found that the front sight was still a little loose, move a bit. Today I put some foil under it, nice and tight now. Had a video of shooting, will post that too. Really like that Bullseye rear sight.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: QueensHorseman on June 08, 2023, 01:24:29 PM
King,

What brand of fibre optic front sight are you using?

Thanks
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on June 08, 2023, 06:45:43 PM
Marbles, 41W I believe.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on September 20, 2023, 05:00:36 PM
Cast up a new batch of 305gr bullets today. Learned a thing or two also. Must not pour slowly, but fast. Better fill and shiny bullets. I'm learnin!
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: QueensHorseman on January 01, 2024, 05:25:00 PM
I cast my first ever bullets recently to better feed my Uberti ‘76 SRC in .45-60.  I used Accurate moulds 46-305C which weighs 303 grains when sized to .459 and lubed with SPG.  Cases were shortened Winchester .45-70.  I tried two loads;

1.  60 grains by volume of Old E 3F as I was out of 2F  ::).  My new Garmin Chrony indicated an average velocity of 1478 fps which seemed to really be cooking from the SRC barrel!  Deviation was 37 fps but accuracy was not great.  I’ll do some more experimenting with 2F when I get some because I will see if a slightly lower velocity treats the soft bullets better on their way to the target.  Temps today were -3 Celsius, overcast with a bit of snow on the ground.  A good winter day for shooting.

2.  12 grain Unique, the old stuff.  I really like Unique and have used it for years.  This load was pushing a commercial 315 grain FPGC bullet.  Average velocity was 1173 fps and it shot amazing!  I had previously started at 10 grains and worked up.  This is a very soft shooting, economical load and I’ll try it nex time with the accurate 46-305C and may try 12.5 grains to break 1200 fps.

I’ve had the SRC for a few years and previously worked over the action some as people have described here so the trigger and action are quite acceptable now.  Next is to try a different rear sight and I plan to order a bullseye rear to try based on King Medallian’s posts.  Most of my open sighted rifles wear receiver peeps which isn’t an option on the ‘76 and I’m not really wanting to use a tang mounted peep purely out of personal preference.  All bullets hit quite high so if anyone has modified their SRC front sight please let me know.  Otherwise I may have to build it up with JB Weld or similar as an experiment.  I also had my ‘73 out and will update that thread as well.  Thanks for all of the info you guys have shared on this forum.  It’s been a great help to me.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: DrummerBoy on February 11, 2024, 04:07:48 PM
DeeBee here, trying to get loading sorted out in my mind and on the bench..
Most of my inspiration and guidance comes from all the great minds on this site, but occasionally I refer to Mike Venturino’s “Lever Guns”
Soooo, under the 45-60 chapter he mentions using shortened 45-70 dies…
Well, will a similar arrangement of shortening 40-65 dies work for the 40-60?
Thanks ALL!!
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: DrummerBoy on February 11, 2024, 04:16:16 PM
Whoooops!!!
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on February 11, 2024, 06:43:26 PM
Wouldn't think so, different  caliber.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: King Medallion on February 20, 2024, 05:37:33 PM
Cast up a couple hundred 305 gr FN bullets today, and made up around 15 test loads, ready for warm weather.
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-Dhr2tlvawMSNFX4TrMAMCKr_1AnQ3pv5Eb7vbRPURMrDDJZkXcK8izA5FFie5ajwVZV51t4MhjbEwRNyGscOgg?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1708487938)
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: QueensHorseman on March 05, 2024, 06:29:40 PM
The Uberti SRC .45-60 went to the range again today.  It was a mild (for Canada) 4 degrees Celsius today.

Loads today were 60 grains by volume of 2F with the Accurate 46-305C bullets, SPG lube.

60 grains Goex 2F: Ave velocity was 1282 fps.  This was the last of my standard Goex.

60 grains Old E 2 F: Ave velocity was 1318 fps.

60 grain Old E 2 F but with an Ox-yoke wad added: Ave velocity was 1360.

The load with the added wad was the most consistent and accurate and is in the velocity window that I was looking for.  My case bullets are pretty soft so perhaps the wads protected the bullet bases, aiding in accuracy.  For now, that is my load while I work on refining the sights to better suit my eyes.  I did anneal my brass since the last outing and the cases sealed the chambers really well.  Cleanup of the rifle was a breeze.

I also had my ‘86, .33 Winchester out but will post those results in the 86 group.
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: matt45 on March 06, 2024, 09:05:48 AM
Have you run a comparison with the Swiss?
Title: Re: Loading Data for the 45-60 WCF
Post by: QueensHorseman on March 06, 2024, 11:19:58 AM
Matt,

I’ve never found Swiss in my area so it’s been a choice between standard Goex, Old E, and lately Schuetzen which I have not used yet.  I’ve been pretty happy with Old E in multiple cartridges and would happily stick with it but these days its a matter to getting the powder that is available.