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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => Frontier Iron => Topic started by: Slowhand on January 09, 2011, 11:48:51 AM

Title: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Slowhand on January 09, 2011, 11:48:51 AM
(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv308/bgoff689/Iver%20Johnson%202nd%20Model%2032%20cal%20Revolver/IverJohnson32Cal2.jpg)

I just added an Iver Johnson Safety Automatic to my collection.. I bought it as an antique made prior to 1899. 

(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv308/bgoff689/Iver%20Johnson%202nd%20Model%2032%20cal%20Revolver/IverJohnson32Cal3.jpg)

From my research I figure she is a second model, smokeless black powder. With  a double top post barrel latch, flat leaf hammer spring and two cross pins in the lower frame, cylinder "free-wheeling" when at rest, plus the Owl is looking towards the muzzle end of the barrel.


Barrel length:  3 inches. 5 rounds cylinder capacity, Frame length: small frame 4 3/26 inches. The cylinder measures out at 0.93 of an inch and the chambers are 0.3350 inch in width. So it’s a .32 caliber.

(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv308/bgoff689/Iver%20Johnson%202nd%20Model%2032%20cal%20Revolver/IverJohnsonDA32CalBarrelAddress2.jpg)

The address on the barrel reads:

IVER JOHNSON’S ARMS & CYCLE WORKS. FITZBURG MASS USA
PATD APR 6 80 FEB15 87 MAY 10 87 DEC 20 93 PAT’S PENDING

There are two sets of numbers on this gun.

(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv308/bgoff689/Iver%20Johnson%202nd%20Model%2032%20cal%20Revolver/IverJohnsonGripsoff.jpg)

Underneath the grip on the left side is the number 37.  There are no serial number prefix letters or other numbers there.

(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv308/bgoff689/Iver%20Johnson%202nd%20Model%2032%20cal%20Revolver/47ONTOPBREAKBARREL4.jpg)

On the back of the top break barrel, underneath the base pin is the number 47.

(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv308/bgoff689/Iver%20Johnson%202nd%20Model%2032%20cal%20Revolver/IJ01-09-11.jpg)

The previous owner said that he shot it about once a month. I don’t plan on that. It has been in a plastic bag since Friday soaking to get cleaned up.

I’m of course looking for more information. Such as a parts listing, a schematic regarding disassembly. There’s of course no Owner’s Manual or PDF file available for these Old Gals. So I’m winging it here.

Not a top of the line piece but like several of my other recent additions Iver Johnson revolvers have a place in American History worthy of note.



Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Stu Kettle on January 09, 2011, 12:22:42 PM
"I figure she is a second model, smokeless black powder. With  a double top post barrel latch..."

I haven't done in research on Iver Johson revolvers, but I didn't think your description matched the picture. The picture looks like it has one top post for the latch.  Here is a picture of mine with a two post latch.  It doesn't have the pat. dates either.
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: yeti76620 on January 09, 2011, 01:07:05 PM
Nice li'l pocket pistol there Pard!

Looks allot like my Harrington & Richardson 32 S&W Long (cylinder length is 1.234").  I also have a 2nd generation S&W 32 Lemon Squeezer that shoots 32 S&W loads that the cylinder length is .924" and the cylinder bore is .340" in both.  The OD of the brass rounds are .333" for my 32 S&W and 32 S&W Long rounds loaded up with Powder and Lead!

Hope this helps for what it's worth.

Yeti76620
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Christopher Carson on January 09, 2011, 02:13:07 PM

I just added an Iver Johnson Safety Automatic to my collection.. I bought it as an antique made prior to 1899. 

I’m of course looking for more information. Such as a parts listing, a schematic regarding disassembly. There’s of course no Owner’s Manual or PDF file available for these Old Gals. So I’m winging it here.


I think Numrich/Gun Parts Corp has a schematic on line.  And maybe some miscellaneous parts...

-Chris
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Slowhand on January 09, 2011, 03:04:59 PM
"I figure she is a second model, smokeless black powder. With  a double top post barrel latch..."

I haven't done in research on Iver Johson revolvers, but I didn't think your description matched the picture. The picture looks like it has one top post for the latch.  Here is a picture of mine with a two post latch.  It doesn't have the pat. dates either.

Interesting bit of information. I'm still digging on this one. The single post was in the first model and the 2 variations that followed. The second variation of the 1st Model was when they started adding the letter prefix. So that would make her either an 1894 or 1895 issue. It also clarifies what a two post latch looks like.

(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv308/bgoff689/weapons/AntiqueCleanUpJan092011IDd.jpg)

I've got a few other things on the table right now. So any information and comments are appreciated.






Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Slowhand on January 09, 2011, 03:06:00 PM
I think Numrich/Gun Parts Corp has a schematic on line.  And maybe some miscellaneous parts...

-Chris


Chris thanks for the link.

Bill
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Slowhand on January 09, 2011, 03:07:35 PM
Nice li'l pocket pistol there Pard!

Looks allot like my Harrington & Richardson 32 S&W Long (cylinder length is 1.234").  I also have a 2nd generation S&W 32 Lemon Squeezer that shoots 32 S&W loads that the cylinder length is .924" and the cylinder bore is .340" in both.  The OD of the brass rounds are .333" for my 32 S&W and 32 S&W Long rounds loaded up with Powder and Lead!

Hope this helps for what it's worth.

Yeti76620

Yeti76620

Thanks for the information. Every little bit helps and is appreciated.

Bill
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Slowhand on January 09, 2011, 04:23:15 PM
"I figure she is a second model, smokeless black powder. With  a double top post barrel latch..."

I haven't done in research on Iver Johson revolvers, but I didn't think your description matched the picture. The picture looks like it has one top post for the latch.  Here is a picture of mine with a two post latch.  It doesn't have the pat. dates either.

Just got a response from W. E. Goforth on another forum. He says she is a first model made in 1894. That helps out.
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Buffalow Red on January 10, 2011, 06:14:23 AM
i CCW one of those johnsons in 38 S&W cal nice little gun
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: River City John on January 10, 2011, 06:50:13 AM
I'm curious about your cleaning method. What are you soaking them in in that plastic bag? Is the reason for putting them in plastic because it evaporates, or just for keeping the mess to a minimum?

(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o26/RiverCityJohn/DSCF0971.jpg)

I had both an I & J and a H & R in .38s&w, but the I & J was called to the ministry.

Both shot well enough for my eyes. Working up a BP load for it now, and for a  Bulldog in same caliber.

RCJ
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Christopher Carson on January 10, 2011, 06:55:02 AM
Just got a response from W. E. Goforth on another forum. He says she is a first model made in 1894. That helps out.


Where's Billl hangin' out these days?  I just got a 3rd model inbound, haven't seen it yet... but thought I'd update him with serial number info if he doesn't have this one accounted for already...

-Chris
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Slowhand on January 10, 2011, 08:39:18 AM
Where's Billl hangin' out these days?  I just got a 3rd model inbound, haven't seen it yet... but thought I'd update him with serial number info if he doesn't have this one accounted for already...

-Chris


http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=85603

I bumped into him up there.

Slowhand
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Slowhand on January 10, 2011, 08:59:15 AM
(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv308/bgoff689/weapons/GunJug01-11-2011.jpg)

They are in the plastic bags to prevent evaporation. I use the bags to separate parts and keep track of those grips and other bits and pieces that I don't want to lose.  I took a  Plastic Kitty Litter Container and cut the top off. I slap them all in there and store them away in between cleaning sessions.

I have a 5 gallon Bucket that I use for cleaning on the range. I spray the the cylinders and barrels down, slap them in plastic and haul them home in the bucket until I can get around to cleaning them. I stoled the idea from a guy up in North Dakota back in 83. He let me shoot a replica Colt Walker. The black stuff got up under my finger nails and layed dormant until last year when I got the urge to really get into black powder shooting. I got the collection thing going and it's been nothing but fun. 

I'm filling in the gaps from 1865 to 1960 in my collection. The question is which am I going to run out of first. Money or Safe Room?

Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Christopher Carson on January 10, 2011, 10:41:28 AM
http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=85603

I bumped into him up there.

Slowhand


Thanks!  -C
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Driftwood Johnson on January 11, 2011, 03:11:51 PM
Quote
From my research I figure she is a second model, smokeless black powder.

Howdy

Not quite sure what you mean by smokeless black powder, but your IJ is definitely a Black Powder version.

There are three ways to tell the Smokeless models from the Black Powder models. On the Black Powder models, the little owl on the grips faces toward the cylinder as he does on yours. Black Powder model Iver Johnsons had a flat spring for the hammer, and the Black Powder models had cylinder stop groves that were simply triangular in shape. The bolt only engaged one side, the hand held the cylinder from turning back.

Here is a photo of my IJ Safety Hammerless, a Smokeless model. The owl is facing away from the cylinder, underneath the grips there is a coil spring that powers the hammer, and the bolt fully engages the cylinder stop slots on two edges.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/iver%20johnson/IverJohnsonHammerless01.jpg)
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Qball on January 13, 2011, 07:49:22 AM
Like this?
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Slowhand on January 13, 2011, 09:03:54 AM
Like this?

Like that...
 ;D
Thanks

Bill
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Qball on January 13, 2011, 09:49:40 AM
No problem Slowhand.  ;D
It's a lovely little revolver, mine is .38S&W
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/qballsweden/IverJohnson.jpg)
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Slowhand on January 15, 2011, 08:26:45 AM
Nice little S&W Break Top there.

(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv308/bgoff689/SW%2032%20Cal%20DA%20Revolver/SW32CalDoubleAction2ndModel18804.jpg)

I picked up this little gal this week at the Post Office. I bought her from a fellow in Theodosia, MO. She had spent the last 40 years or so in a shadow box on a wall.


(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv308/bgoff689/SW%2032%20Cal%20DA%20Revolver/SW32CalDoubleAction2ndModel1880.jpg)

 It's a .32 Cal, Double Action, 4th Model circa 1880-83.

(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv308/bgoff689/SW%2032%20Cal%20DA%20Revolver/IJ32CalwithSW32Cal2.jpg)

I paired her up with the Iver Johnson. It's an interesting comparison.







Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: litl rooster on January 21, 2011, 01:08:55 AM
Where's Billl hangin' out these days?  I just got a 3rd model inbound, haven't seen it yet... but thought I'd update him with serial number info if he doesn't have this one accounted for already...

-Chris


In case it's been missed Mr. Goforth passed away last Saturday
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Slowhand on January 21, 2011, 08:04:31 AM
In case it's been missed Mr. Goforth passed away last Saturday

It hasn't been missed. There are several forums aware of his passing. Mr. Goforth will be missed. The Firearms Forum has a posting notice about it.

I've been reading his book this week. "Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Handguns 1871 - 1978" A very interesting history of the Iver Johnson Revolvers.
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Christopher Carson on January 21, 2011, 08:13:41 AM
In case it's been missed Mr. Goforth passed away last Saturday

I hadn't realized, thanks for posting.  Yes, he'll certainly be missed...

-Chris
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Buffalow Red on January 27, 2011, 05:50:18 PM
Howdy

Not quite sure what you mean by smokeless black powder, but your IJ is definitely a Black Powder version.

There are three ways to tell the Smokeless models from the Black Powder models. On the Black Powder models, the little owl on the grips faces toward the cylinder as he does on yours. Black Powder model Iver Johnsons had a flat spring for the hammer, and the Black Powder models had cylinder stop groves that were simply triangular in shape. The bolt only engaged one side, the hand held the cylinder from turning back.

Here is a photo of my IJ Safety Hammerless, a Smokeless model. The owl is facing away from the cylinder, underneath the grips there is a coil spring that powers the hammer, and the bolt fully engages the cylinder stop slots on two edges.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/iver%20johnson/IverJohnsonHammerless01.jpg)

well mine has an owl facing the cly on one side & facing away on other side
says IVER JOHNSON'S ARMS & CYCLE WORKSPAT JUN16.96AUG2 & THE DATE IS DAMAGED
so i dont know if this is black powder only or not ser#23900's
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Buffalow Red on January 27, 2011, 05:55:31 PM
so my boy has a s&W pocket pistol that was nickle but most is worn off i been thinking of getting one o them plating kits & replating it in nickle
so has anyone ever plated one of othese
if i do i might plate this one as the blueing is poor
7 they look so cool plated in nickle
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Slowhand on January 28, 2011, 01:56:44 AM
so my boy has a s&W pocket pistol that was nickle but most is worn off i been thinking of getting one o them plating kits & replating it in nickle
so has anyone ever plated one of othese
if i do i might plate this one as the blueing is poor
7 they look so cool plated in nickle

(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv308/bgoff689/Jan%2023%202011%20Collection%20Picts/4thPicturesCollection01-23-20114.jpg)

I have several originals done in stainless, nickle and blued. I pretty much leave them in their original shape and don't do any restorations designed to put them back in the shape they were in when they were newly made.


I'm told that nickel cannot be plated directly on steel. You first have to copper plate it then plate the copper.  Have at it and let me know how it goes.

Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: St. George on January 28, 2011, 08:45:31 AM
Stainless wasn't an option during the time - nor was chrome-plating.

Guns of the era were blued - blued and case-hardened or nickel-plated - and if South of the Border, sometimes silver-plated, but that was more of an electrolytic 'wash'.

Stainless would come about in the 1960's when S&W built the first of their Model 60's.

The big thing with re-plating is the metal preparation needed in order to make it look right, and by this time, many of those old guns have significan wear on them, enough that markings will be irretrievably lost if polished.

Instead - try Happich's 'Simichrome' and 4-0 Steel Wool - finish with a soft cloth.

It'll polish and clean up a dull finish and make the weapon look 'carried, yet well-maintained'.

That's better than 're-plated'...

Good Luck!

Vaya,

Scouts Out!
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: GunClick Rick on May 19, 2014, 08:51:01 PM
What is the cylinder diamater on these~Mine is a 38 BP...Got to fins some ammo too

(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/rick_son1/DSC07063_zps877561e2.jpg)
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Major 2 on May 20, 2014, 03:11:37 AM
Slowhand said "...There’s of course no Owner’s Manual or PDF file available for these Old Gals"

Have you tried Cornell Publications , www.cornellpubs.com

I just got one for my Merwin & Hulbert and will order one for my S&W Lemon Squeezer.
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Books OToole on May 20, 2014, 09:40:15 AM
Roger;

Is that the S & W you called me about last week?  It is a beauty.

Books
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Major 2 on May 20, 2014, 10:26:46 AM
That's it  :) turns out it has a box ...  Bore is mint , as are the grips , chambers are bright ..and locks up drum tight.
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Books OToole on May 20, 2014, 02:24:16 PM
In that condition, with a box, you probably don't want to shoot it. (I know you want to, but you shouldn't.  It is worth too much.)  I have a shooter* 3rd model Safety Hammerless that I would consider trading.

Actually;  the 1st, 2nd & 3rd models have better sights than the 4th & 5th models.

Books




* It is in nice condition, but it has be re-plated.
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: GunClick Rick on May 20, 2014, 03:00:02 PM
I don't think the one i have has ever been shot.I traded a hammerless for it.
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Major 2 on May 21, 2014, 01:07:56 AM
Here you go Clicker...

Mike  here is the S&W

 ...the description is as advertised, the photos did not do it justice
The Box * may not be original to the gun, it is a correct box though ... I'll have read the inner lid label carefully, to make sure it matches the model.  

* It is a later Box , but it was not advertise as matching

Also came with a set of Pearls... 
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: GunClick Rick on May 21, 2014, 09:03:04 AM
That is way cool~Why do i like these styles so well,they should do them again.. :)
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: Blair on May 21, 2014, 03:26:21 PM
Rick,

Who would you suggest "they" should be?

My understanding is that a 6 shot brake top, S&W type revolver in .38 cal. is being produced. Am I incorrect?
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: John Smith on May 22, 2014, 08:23:39 AM
Yes they make at least 3 so pies od S&W top break revolvers, the "Russian", "Schofield" and one called the "laramie". All are full size revolvers.  Ususally the pocket pistols held 6 in .32, and 5 in .38,
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: St8LineLeatherSmith on June 22, 2014, 09:26:13 PM
I'm in the process of acquisitioning this little beauty
according to the owls head looking at the barrel it is a second model
or could be a third model with the grips changed out
hope it is a third model but no biggie if it isnt.
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: GunClick Rick on June 22, 2014, 10:07:49 PM
My owl looks the same way also but it black powder loads only..Finnally got a little holster for mine from Johnny McCrea  :)

(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/rick_son1/2014-06-03180847_zpsc6e7ed6f.jpg)

(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/rick_son1/2014-06-03180919_zpsbbc3fd79.jpg)
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: St8LineLeatherSmith on June 23, 2014, 04:48:16 AM
Love these old guns!
ya yours is a second model
the cylinder spins freely with the hammer at rest with the first and second models
the third models the cylinder stays locked in position with the hammer at rest
that is the easiest way to tell the diffrence between the two models
the third models were also beefed up to shoot the new (at the time) smokeless rounds.

Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: GunClick Rick on June 23, 2014, 12:23:47 PM
What makes smokeless,smokeless,sure seems to me that black powder would be more combustable? It sounds meaner anyway :)

Thanks for the education,i did not know that,good info..
Title: Re: Iver Johnson Revolver
Post by: St8LineLeatherSmith on June 23, 2014, 03:17:04 PM
lless stuff in it that makes smoke I suppose ;D
from what I understand the whole premice behind developing smokless powder was due to BP giving away the position because of the amount of smoke produced when taking a shot smokeless eleminated this problem.