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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Cutting Edge => Topic started by: Josh Dabney on February 16, 2010, 08:52:47 AM

Title: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 16, 2010, 08:52:47 AM
Howdy Pards,

Well it's bout time fer another knifemaking WIP (work in progress) thread.

I'm assuming that the Knifenuts here in The Cutting edge have some interest in the tools, materials, methods, and madness that go into the making of a custom, handmade knife.

This'n here will give a good example of what goes into making a full tang fixed blade with bolsters and a silver wire inlay.

We're starting out with a billet of Random Patterned 5160/15N20 Damascus steel and our Belduque concept drawing.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP001.jpg)

Now that we've got our plan set and our pattern tranferred to our billet we'll head over to the bandsaw and cut away everything that doesn't look like a knife.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP003.jpg)

Now having our billet rough cut we'll head over to the grinder to tune up the profile with an 80 grit belt.  You'll notice that I left a bit of steel on the bottom of the bolster area.  The purpose of this is to get a perfect fit of the bolster and tang so I'll wait to clean up this hard to reach area until I've got the bolster material fit up and can grind both bolsters and the tang to shape all at once.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP005.jpg)

Now onto the bolsters.  At this point I've cut the bolsters from a German Silver flatbar then squared them up with the spine of the knife and super glued them both in place.  The super glue is a temporary bond at this point and is just enough to get the pinholes layed out, drilled, and reamed.  A sharp swat with a hammer will knock the bolster right back off the blade once were done with this stage.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP006.jpg)

Moving on to handle pin layout we'll cut out the hand drawn pattern of our wire pattern and tape it to the handle so we can center punch all the pin holes that are going to go through the handle material.  With silver wire it's very important to have a very solid plan for the pattern because the pin holes need to be drilled before heat treating the blade and will correspond with the wire.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP008.jpg)

Here we find ourselves at the drillpress ready to drill out our center punched pinholes.  This particular knife is gonna have 2 different size pins that go through the handle material 1/8"  &  1/16".  You'll notice how I marked the smaller holes with a sharpie to prevent drilling one of the small holes with the larger bit.  This wouldn't be the end of the world but could cause allignment issues down the road or throw off the wire pattern.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP010.jpg)

This is where we're leaving off for today.  Stay tuned right here in The cutting Edge for more to come !

I do appologize for the pic quality in some of the shop pics.  Lighting could be much better because I use a one of those tall household lamps with 3 bulbs that I move from station to station. 

Also, PLEASE feel free to comment, critique, and ask any questions you may have reguarding the knife, process, tools, materials or anything else that's of interest to you.

Thanks alot for following along and participating in the creation of  "The Belduque"    -Josh  ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Ned Buckshot on February 16, 2010, 09:34:38 AM
Thanks Josh for sharing your talent.

This'll be an interesting one to follow.

Ned
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 16, 2010, 09:34:58 AM
Josh,

I sent you an email, but just wanted to put it public how special it is to watch my particular Phoenix rise from the flames!

Thank you so much!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Ned Buckshot on February 16, 2010, 09:42:20 AM
I bet your way excited WWE, I know I sure would be! ;D ;D

Ned
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 16, 2010, 09:59:11 AM
Ned,

Yes I am excited!  In fact, I am going to make a whole new pic for my profile once my Josh Dabney Belduque and Botas (Mexican/Spanish/Californio leggings worn instead of chaps) from Chuck Burrows arrives!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Ned Buckshot on February 16, 2010, 10:22:21 AM
Can't wait for the new picture.

You'll look like you are hangin' out at the Cantina in 1840 Monterey!

Ned
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 16, 2010, 10:33:25 AM
Actually, you are quite close ... *S*.

The place where I like to do my pictures is in a building that was originally Sam Brannon's in Old Sacramento. The bar was saved from destruction and a fireplace ... it is over 150 years old and comes from Leadville CO (i.e., home of the 'Unsinkable Molly Brown).

Here is their website:

http://www.fatsrestaurants.com/fatcity/

And below is a small pic of the barback (about 1/3rd of its height)....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 16, 2010, 10:34:36 AM
P.S. My profile pic was taken right in front of the pic above ....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Shotgun Steve on February 16, 2010, 10:51:03 AM
Looks like it's coming along fine Josh. I am sure WWEllis is going to be very happy with it. Almost makes
me wish I would have ordered one myself. Take care.
  Shotgun Steve
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on February 16, 2010, 12:41:30 PM
Boy do i love Ole Sac.If ya see Dutches say hi she's a single horse pullin the carriage,she liked my harmonica playin.

That's is gonna be one heck of a cutter,nice to see the process,thank you~~Were a couple lucky guys Wad,i got a couple Ned knives and your gettin this one from Josh.Great talent man :)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 16, 2010, 01:18:37 PM
Rick,

Actually I have the best of several worlds ....

The knife listed here is just about done ....

I put an antelope antler (from Cowboy 316) on the cheap bowie that I had ... and it makes it look like a new knife.

Then Chuck Burrows took an inexpensive Indian Damascus Bowie and put leather over the stag handle, and made it look 'cowboy', remaking the sheath in the process.

Finally, Ned took that knife I had put the antler on and made a wonderful sheath for it ....

I am so blessed!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 16, 2010, 01:20:30 PM
Rick,

Old Sacramento is where I will be doing tours as a docent, so I will keep an eye out for Duchess ... and if I run into her, I will try to get a pic ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 16, 2010, 01:23:47 PM
Shotgun Steve,

BTW, if my memoriy serves me (always doubtful at best), you actually have a ANTIGUE version ...

Could you reprint the pic here to show how close Josh is to the real thing?

Thanks!

(And I think we both were very lucky in what we have found!)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on February 16, 2010, 03:59:23 PM
Wanted to come back when i had more time to read all the instruction,very interesting Josh,free hand on that enlay design?Wow! I can see by you tutering where the drillin holes part could be a tad tricky.I take it you do the enlay design first then shape the handle material? This is great to see.. :) :)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Gun Butcher on February 16, 2010, 05:59:04 PM
Josh, that is going to look fantastic. If you keep this up I might actually be able to call myself a Knife Butcher one of these days. I have certainly learned alot for your post. Thanks for taking the time to do this for all of us.

Wadd, yer a lucky man. can't wait to see you in all your finery.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 16, 2010, 10:15:26 PM
Thanks fer the comments fellas !

GCR-   Yup, Freehand all the way.  Also do all my grinding after profiling freehand.  Sometimes profile freehand too, LOL.  Depending on the shape of the blade'n such.

As fer the wire, The handle will be attatched and ground about 97 % to shape before putting the wire in.  It's a little hard to descibe but the wire has to "roll" around the contours of the handle 3-dimentionally.   The wire has to stay 90 degrees to the surface of the wood so as the wire is making a scroll shape it will also be rolling "twisting" the the left or right and diving or rising as the pattern follows the contour of the handle.

It'll be much more understandable when we get to pics of that part, LOL.

Stay tuned for another update tomorrow that will take us through grinding in the bevels of the blade.

Take care pals,  Josh  ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Dave Cole on February 16, 2010, 10:55:59 PM
It's starting off great Josh.That new bandsaw table looks good too.Dave :)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 16, 2010, 11:46:50 PM
That table is the Bee's knees !!!!!    ;)

I honestly don't know how I got along without it    :o

Thanks alot Buddy !

Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 17, 2010, 08:01:27 AM
Heya Pards,

Today we'll be taking a gander at and discussing the grinding of a full height flat grind and a convex edge.

The first step in the process is covering the "edge" of our blade blank with Dykem layout fluid.  The purpose of this is to give us a high contrast backround to layout the edge of the blade.  The Dykem seems to hold up to the heat produced while grinding and repeated dunking in water and wiping clean much better than a permanent marker which is often used for this purpose.

Once the layout fluid is dry we use our digital calipers to measure the thickness of the blank then divide by two and scribe where the actual edge of the blade will end up in the center of the blade

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP011.jpg)

Now I put one bolster on with both pins in place and make a pencil mark on the leading edge of the bolster.  In keeping with the Belduque style blade I want my plunge line to run right up the bolster face almost giving the appearance of no plunge at all when the blade is completed.  Now I clamped my file guide onto the blade lined up with my pencil mark to insure that I don't grind too far towards the rear of the knife.   That mistake is very easy to do and if it happens the only solution is to make the bolsters skinnier.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP012.jpg)

Now we're ready to begin grinding the actual bevels of the blade.  Here's a shot of the lead in grind.  There are several benefits to the lead in.  The main benifit is that putting your blade against the belt with a 90 degree corner on the blade edge will shear the grains right off the belt seriously reducing the usable life of the belt.   I grind my lead in at around 30 or so degrees because it gives just a little wider "flat" to go back to on the next pass.  The other benefit of the lead in grind is that your thinning the edge of the blade down to .040 or there abouts which reduces the risk of getting the edge off center later in the grinding process.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP016.jpg)

In the next shot you'll see how we "walk" our grinds up the blade towards the spine.  It's VERY important to keep thing as EVEN as possible from the left to right side while grinding.  This means we grind up an 1/8 or so on one side then flip and even things up. In one word here's why we do this- WARP.  

Say for example you were to grind the left bevel all the way to the spine before touching the right side.  What will happen is this- As your grinding and heating up the left side of the blade the steel will warp towards the heat.  So when your done with that side you'll have a good flat bevel on the left but because of the warp you won't be able to get the right side flat and you'll end up with an edge that will seriously hook off to the right because of the warp that happens while grinding the second side.   this is another thing thats kinda difficult to put into words but the bottom line is to grind as evenly as possible  ;D

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP015.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP017.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP019.jpg)

All the grinding thus far has been done with a 40 grit belt.  So far we've seen the "Hogging" stage of the grinding.   What happens with a rough belt is that you'll have a uniform looking surface but in fact there will be very deep errant scratches under the surface that will reveal themselves as you begin to refine the surface.   You'll notice the waves and ridges in the grind at this point. While hogging we're only giving a half hearted effort at a smooth grind. We'll really begin to fix up our grinds after switching to an 80 grit. We'll also use this belt to push our bevels right up to the brink of the spine.  We do NOT want to grind into the spine !!  

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP020.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP021.jpg)

From here we'll now go to a 220 grit.  At 220 we don't want to be doing a bunch of grinding.  At this point we are refinding the surface and making very minor adjustments to our grind lines.  I'm also adding a "convex" edge at this point down to around .020 which is about as thin as I'll go before heat treating the blade.  

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP022.jpg)

At this stage we're gonna give this blade a light etch and have a look at what the damascus pattern looks like now that we're getting close to final dimentions on the bevels.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP023.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP025.jpg)

Now for a flat grind we could go to a 400 grit belt and refine the blade further at this point but comming off the belt grinder can be very decieving as to the actual quality of the flat.  So we are going to go to the JUDGE !  The un-flinching, un-wavering, brutally honest and cruel measurer of the flat grind....  The disk sander.   I started out with some 320 grit paper on the disk and refined the bevels to see what I've "actually" got, not what it "looks like" I've got.  Lo and behold,  A low spot on the spine quicly reveals itself.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP027.jpg)

With this unfortunate but almost inevitable discovery we go right back to 120 grit on the disk to get a TRUE flat.  And we finish up with another quick etch to see the pattern again.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP028.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP029.jpg)


Thats where we're leaving off for today folks.  
Don't be shy now Pards. Please ask any question you have,  Josh ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 17, 2010, 08:39:22 AM
Josh,

Simply breathtaking!

You make it look so easy and matter of fact ... I can see so many places where I would have made permanent and ugly mistakes ...

But this knife is a work of art!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Dave Cole on February 17, 2010, 12:18:43 PM
Cool looking pattern on that piece, Josh. Dave :)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Angel_Eyes on February 17, 2010, 05:25:22 PM
Josh, not wishing to be crass, but that knife is exactly the same shape as my 'Prestige' make carving knife, part of a knife set we got as a wedding present in '67.
What makes it a 'Belduque' ? And what does the name mean?

AE
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 17, 2010, 06:43:52 PM
Well, some people would say that crass is my middle name ... I prefer outspoken ...

The Belduque was the hispanic equivalent of a Bowie, and used much the same way. Like a Bowie, the 'back of the edged side was also sharpened about a half to a third of the way ... which made in easier for stabbing or skinning an animal.

They are said to be related to Spanish kitchen knives ( In fact, the South American equivalent was called a Cuchillo Criolo). The Spanish knives are in turn thought to be taken from the Flemish kitchen knives ... and named after a certain beautiful duchess of the lowlands ... hence  Belle Duque to Belduque ( but that is just a wive's tale; I don't think that there is any documentation ... but what a great story!)

But here is some reading on Beluduques:

http://www.sanjacinto-museum.org/The_Battle/Weapons/Blades/Blades/

http://www.whirlwindtraders.com/chrisknifepage.html

Notice the 1750 era Belduque on the page ...

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/facon/criollo.html

Notice the Cuchillo Criollo towards the bottom of the article (the one with the red background) ...

http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/adaes/images/french-trade-2.html

The top knife on the vest is a Spanish Belduque...

Hope this helps .... but I think the main thing that separates a Belduque and Cuchillo from kitchen knifes is the sharpened opposite side of the blade ...

By the way, Vaqueros tended to wear them as a form of 'boot knife', with the handle sticking out of their Botas (i.e. leggings). If you blow up the bear hunting seen below, the rider in the foreground has one tucked into his right Botas with only the handle showing ... but it looks like a real handy place to wear it when on horseback.

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 17, 2010, 09:39:25 PM
Angel eyes,

From the research I did, which is probably all the links WWE posted, it seems that the term Belduque was a term similar in our speak to Bowie.  Meaning that it pretty much means Big Ole' Knife, LOL. 

These knives were carried by drifting free spirited type of folks who lived by their own rules and carried the knives as an all purpose blade and examples from plain to highly ornate were found.  Too many of these folks their knife was their most prized possesion so perhaps even a poor drifter may have owned a more ornate example.

This is my interpretation based on the pics I've seen of historical Belduques, but not a copy of any specific example.

All the blades seem to be this basic shape with a multitude of different handle styles and it would seem to make sense that they were a derivitive of kitchen style knives.

-Josh  ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 17, 2010, 11:27:23 PM
From my research on Californios and other hispanic riders, it seems that two things are so pandemic that most writers just mention them as fact ...

*That the average mounted Vaquero felt that any activity that could not be done on horseback was somehow below their dignity ... and that it was a matter or pride to complete any action on horseback.

*Well into the age of gunpowder and percussion arms, the favorite weapon of the mounted Vaquero was the knife and short sword. It was felt that shooting someone accross the distance of a barroom did not take as much courage as a bladed conflict at very short range ... I'm just sayin'

I am including another of James Walkers idyllic paintings below ... on the rider on the right, notice the saber mounted in its saddle sheath much the way that Wichesters would be carried. On the left rider, notice the Belduque handle rising out of his left Bota ....

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 17, 2010, 11:47:24 PM
In order to get the painting small enough to add, it lost the detail of the sword and Belduqe

Here is the sight where you can see the detail I could not get above ....

http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/James-Walker/California-Vaqueros.html
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Angel_Eyes on February 18, 2010, 06:08:04 AM
See? It doesn't take much to get an education around here!!

Wait till Sunday lunch, when I ask the missus to pass me the Belduque!! ::)

Better learn to duck! ;D

AE
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 18, 2010, 08:31:11 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 18, 2010, 08:46:23 AM
Howdy Pards,

Not a bunch of excitement last night but some progress was made, LOL   ;D

In this first pic you can see where I've sanded the etch off the blade in the spanish notch area and drawn in where I want to remove steel with a fine point sharpie.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP030.jpg)

Here we have the notch as far as I wanna go with power tools.  I used my Dremel and the tinist carbide burr available to carve out the notch.  After carving I did some tuning up of the mouth of the notch with various files.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP031.jpg)

From here it's on to fine tuning the insides of the notch with sand paper

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP032.jpg)

In this pic you can see that I've begun hand sanding the blade.  This pic highlights the transition between the flats of the blade and the convexed edge.   At this point I decided I wasn't satisfied with the transition so I took it back to the grinder and a 400 grit slack belt to blend the flat and covex parts of the blade.  Ultimatly I want the blade to look like it's a single flat grind even though it has a convexed edge.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP033.jpg)

Now back to the hand sanding.  Prior to heat treating the blade I don't really need a perfect finish on the blade.  However,  the better the finish prior to HT the easier (read faster) it will be to get a good finish on the hardened steel.  It's MUCH easier to remove and refine scratches on a soft blade as opposed to one thats been hardened.  So my goal at this point is to be 100% certain I've removed ALL traces of the verticle scratches from the belt and disk sander.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP034.jpg)

Basically all steps in the knifemaking process are subject to the makers preference and there are many many different ways to accomplish each task.  Most, if not nearly all makers will leave their blades on the thick side proir to heat treating and go right back to the grinder after HT.  I've been getting such satisfactory results with using anti-scale compound while HT-ing that I've been working towards a more refined finish proir to HT in the hopes that my blade will be clean enough after HT that I can hand finish from that point.   There remains the possibilty though that even a pinhole in my anti-scale will cause me to have to go back to the grinder after HT.

Here's a close-up of the 320 grit finish I'm looking for at this stage

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP035.jpg)


I still have quite a ways to go before HT-ing this blade but steady progress will get us ther before ya know it.

Thanks fer followin along Pards !   -Josh ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 18, 2010, 08:56:24 AM
Josh,

Every time I watch your steps, I think of what the knife would look like were I making it, using my woodworking tools and my untrained (read presbyopic) eyes....

I'm convinced that at best it would look like a trade knife at a county swap meet and not the work of art you are preparing .... and we are no where near the sheath yet!

 :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Gun Butcher on February 18, 2010, 09:56:48 AM
  Josh, you have answered so many question as you have gone thru this process that I can't think of any right now. You would make one heck of a teacher and I appreciate your effort in doing this for all of us.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 18, 2010, 11:26:13 AM
GB,

Thanks fer the compliment Pard.

This one has been comming over the horizon fer awhile now and WWE and I talked about a more detailed WIP thread for this build. 

It's actually kinda fun, although time consuming, and I wouldn't wanna do it for every knife but WWE and I thought that a thread intended to be informative as to the construction of a handmade knife would be of interest to the knife enthusiasts we've got here. 

I'm sorta approaching things from more of an "informational" WIP as opposed to a "how to" type WIP.   An enitre book could be written on each individual aspect of the process such as a "how to" on grinding bevels alone .

I will happily answer ANY questions that pop up to the best of my ability though, and do also welcome input from others in alterantive methods and techniques  (Dave/John/Chuck/Ned/Rebsr/)   I KNOW some folks around here could teach me a thing or two along the way here  ;D  So please feel free to chime in here guys !

I'm sure glad folks seem to be enjoyin this WIP,   Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on February 18, 2010, 11:45:22 AM
I"m not an knife maker although I love knives. When WWE told me about this thread I set it up so I could keep track. I'm thotoughly enjoying from it as well.

Thanks for taking that extra time. Who knows, maybe one day I'll become a knifemaker, too.

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 19, 2010, 10:11:25 AM
Mornin Pards,

Work time got shortened a bit last night on account of a phone call from an ole' Pard o' mine from Ohio  :(
Did still manage to make a bit of progress in working towards HT-ing this here Belduque  ;)

I started off with a bit of final fine tuning to the hand finish and continued on to layout the area on the blade that'll be the clip.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP036.jpg)

Now,  Due to the face that I did NOT layout and scribe a centerline for the edge of the clip prior to grinding the bevels of the blade I now don't have the option of setting the calipers to center and scribing due the fact that the top edge of the spine is tapered over the lenght of the clip.

To overcome the taper and get a true centerline I coated the spine with layout fluid and scribed a short centerline on both ends of the clip.  Then I clamped her up in the bench vise (padded with leather of course!) and used a straight edge and carbide scribe to mark the centerline.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP037.jpg)

Now we can move on to actually grinding in the clip.  With a fase clip (swedge) I'll grind it in after HT to try and keep warp to a minimum during the HT process.  Although this steel is mostly made of 5160 which is a deep hardening steel so it shouldn't be a problem but I'm gonna grind some of the bulk out of the clip area just to ensure that this area gets fully hardened during the quench. For the clip to hold an edge it MUST be fully hardened.

The thinner the steel the faster it'll cool during the quench !  The faster it cools the higher the likeyhood of getting a full martensite conversion with the quench (or in laymans terms... Hardened).  This is an overly simplified statement as there are MANY factors that come into play but without getting too involved in technical metallurgical speak this gives you an idea of why I'm setting the blade up for HT the way that I am  ;D

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP039.jpg)

This next shot just shows how I used my trusty scribe to mark the inside face of the bolsters with the side of blade it goes on and a directional arrow pointing towards the tip of the blade to ensure proper re-allignment on future operations, which is now.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP041.jpg)

Now using my pins to allign the bolsters I superglued them back on to keep them alligned while shaping to the tang of the knife.  Here you can see that I'm using a 1" wide belt to grind the bolster top and bottom flush with the tang. This is a 220 grit belt that will remove material slow and easy.  At this point creating a big gouge in the tang would be a call to whack may head off the corner of the workbench,  LOL, so SLOW & EASY is the order of the day here !  The further along you get with a knife the more disasterous to the final outcome a mistake will be.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP042.jpg)

In the last shot you can see the flat platen on the grinder that supports the belt.  The platen is covered in ceamic glass to reduce friction with the belt and get a true flat.  The glass is also MUCH more resistant to wear than a typical mild steel platen face which will quickly wear enough that it becomes impossible to get a true flat.  The platen is great but to profile the bottom of the bolsters it just won't allow us to get into that area so here you'll see that I took it off and profiled the bottom with the slack belt.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP043.jpg)

Now we've got our bolsters flush with the tang on top and bottom we need to layout the groove that'll be filed around the center of the bolsters.  We're only concerned with the top and bottom at this point to get the grooves into the tang of the blade before HT-ing.   These bolsters are made from 3/4" wide German Silver barstock wich I verified with my calipers by measuring them at .7495 .  Moving on I again coated the top and bottom with layout fluid and set my caliper to .375 to scribe the centerline off the face of the bolsters.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP044.jpg)

Here's a little trick I'll use often when doing filework.  To begin I'll use a triangle shaped file to get a precision cut right where I want it.  The pupose of this is to make a small groove that will guide the round file and avoid accidentally cutting off to one side or the other when begining the cut with the round file. In this pic you can see a scribed line to the left of the file cut.  This is here because I initially set my caliper to .325 by ACCIDENT.  A quick eyeball of the scribed line told me that it was NOT in the center of the bolster (which you can see in the previous pic).  Precision tools are GREAT.  But do NOT discount the power of the eyeball !!!!!   It's kinda like ole' Ronnie Reagan used to say... "trust but verify"

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP045.jpg)

Here's what we're lookin fer with the filework proior to HT and shaping the bolsters.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP049.jpg)

Again I gave a quick etch to reveal the damascus pattern so now we can really begin to get feel for how the Belduque is gonna look when finished

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP052.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP053.jpg)


This brings us to the end of another day Pards.  

Thanks alot fer followin along with Belduque   ;D     Josh

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Ned Buckshot on February 19, 2010, 04:42:46 PM
Thanks Josh, I'm learning something at every step!

I do appreciate it.

And the Belduque is truning out beautifully!

Ned
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 19, 2010, 07:02:01 PM
Ned,

My Pleasure Pard !

Remember,  everything you see here was taught to me by someone else so I'm just sharing some of the knowledge others have shared with me. 

The knifemaking community is a great place to be with tons of commraderie and free exchange of info,  Kinda reminds me of the CAS City.

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on February 19, 2010, 10:33:11 PM
Nothing like aman that has the confidence to teach his skills to others.I always did the same when i was operating heavy equipment.The way i learne i was tossed on a dozer and told go get em,my boss thought it was funny,i didn't,my grandfather thank god taught me that,go slow pay attention and never stop thinkin,cuase you can really get bit bad,I never had a problem teaching a new person,alot more safe that way..Thanks Josh this is really cool..Wished i had all of granpas tool now,i'd give it a go..Gonna be bueatiful like Ned said~~~

Does the little cut out serve a purpose,or just ornamental?
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 20, 2010, 12:27:16 AM
GCR,

There's always the risk of defeat, LOL.  But I am getting comfortable enough with my skills and knowledge to share a bit of it with y'all.

Your story reminds me of when my Dad taught me to drive a standard shift.  He gave me the keys and said " If you stall out give it more gas.  If you chirp the tires give it less gas and stay away from hills till you get the hang of it"

I'm sure that your Grandpa had a fine set of tools but you do know that a fine performing knife can be made with VERY modest tools  ;)     If you ever wanna give it a go I'd be happy to make some recommendations as to methods and material choices.

Now I'm fixin to get busy posting my todays update today instead of in the mornin  ;D

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 20, 2010, 01:26:05 AM
Well Pards the time has come.  The exciting and dramatic time of heat treating the Belduque !

The dangers involved with red hot steel, fire and smoke just hold an allure that gets in the blood.  And there's no known cure for the addiction !   ;D

In this first pic we see the components we're gonna use in preparing the blade to go into the oven.  We're fixin to apply anti-scale compound to the entire blade.  The purpose of this is to put a thin coat of heat resistant material over the surface of the blade to protect it from carbon robbing oxygen and protection from decarb ( decarburation, which is when the carbon atoms on the surface of the steel attatch themselves to oxygen and actually leave the steel  creating scale and a layer of soft low-carbon steel on the surface)

In the pic you'll see a can of acetone used to clean the blade of any oils or contaminates that will prevent the anti-scale from sticking to the blade and also the white can that is the actual anti-scale compound.    Also included is a paint brush and coffee can lid for application purposes.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP054.jpg)

In this pic we have the lid, brush, a blob of anti-scale, and some hot tap water that we'll mix up to form a dillited version of anti-scale that allows us to get a very thin coat.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP055.jpg)

Now we heat up the blade with the heat gun to facilitate very quick drying when applying our wash coat and here's a shot of the blade coated

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP056.jpg)

Now it's getting GOOD !  Here we are putting the Belduque into the HT-ing oven

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP058.jpg)

We're cooking with oil now !    The flare up is a result of the hot steel of the tang being in contact with the surface of the oil. It really looks a bit more risky than it actually is and the angle of the camera makes it look like the quench tank is closer to the oven than it actually is.  I would recommend not to try this at home Boys and Girls because this stunt was performed under controlled conditions by trained professionals   ;D  (I always wanted to say that)

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP060.jpg)

To ensure that we've done a proper job of hadening the blade we check it with a file.  Because the "as quenched" hardness of the blade is harder then than the file we attempt to cut into the edge with our file.  If the file bites into the steel whe have NOT fully hardened our blade.  As it happens the Belduque passed the file test all along the edge of the blade and clip  ;D

When HT-ing blades that are ground thin you MUST be prepared to deal with a little warp.  The Belduque had a VERY slight bow to the left out of the quench.  There is a very small window of time when the blade is "hardened" but still very pliable that it can be straightened  easily.  Many folks will straighten the blade at this point with nothing more than gloved hands but I prefer the precision afforded by this simple 3-point set-up on my bench vise.  

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP061.jpg)

Here she is straight out of the quench and straight as an arrow

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP063.jpg)

Now I want to make this important point for anyone who may attempt to use their kitchen oven to temper a blade or draw back a file to make a knife out of.   DO NOT TRUST THE SETTING OF YOUR KITCHEN OVEN !  You'll see here that I've got the oven set at 365 degrees but was getting an actual temperature measured with an oven thermometer at a touch over 400 degrees.  I keep a very watchful eye on that thermometer and adjusted the setting down 5 degrees to get an even 400 degree 2 hour temper followed by an air cool to room temp then back into the oven for a second 2 hour temper.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP062.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP064.jpg)

Tomorrow we're gonna sharpen her up and see how we did with our HT.   Judging by the light straw color out of the temper I have a feeling this blade is gonna pass the brass rod and chopping tests with flying colors.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 20, 2010, 01:37:59 AM
GCR,

Sorry Pard, I plum forgot to mention that the filed in groove around the bolster does offer a much improved grip over a plain smooth polished bolster.

Probably not something thats thought about these days is that a knife like this would've been a fella's primary cutting tool and weapon and would've been require to see duty reguardless of rain, sweat, or blood so any improvement in grip over a smooth polished bolster would be a welcomed addition.

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on February 20, 2010, 01:41:03 PM
If i was to try somethin like that the first thing i would buy would be a large neon sign to put in the front yard!

DIAL 911~~~~!!!!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 20, 2010, 02:16:08 PM
Well Pards it's a sad day in the life and death of the Belduque.   :(

Unfortuantely a nasty delamination was hidden in the damascus which can and sometimes does happen.  This also means that this project just came to a screeching halt while I contact the fella who made the damascus and try to get a replacement billet to start over with   >:(

Either way we we will continue this WIP as soon as replacement damascus can be had.

Here are the pics that lead up to this grizzly discovery

Here is shot of the tools I use to sharpen a knife.  Of course I did begin by removing the bulk of meat from the edge on the belt grinder and a slack belt.  I always like to sharpen on stones because I feel the vast majority of folks out there dont have belt grinders or other fancy equipment to re-sharpen on. This way the knife is delivered to the customer with an edge that's set-up for resharpening on a stone.  Although I've been using these Lansky stones for years I never use the silly jig that comes with the kit.  For me the kit is just a way to get a variety of stones for a resonable price and I choose to sharpen by hand the good ole' fashoined way.  It does take some practice but very good results can be had.  You'll also notice that I have a temporary handle attatched to the knife to give a good grip for some hard testing.   This temp is two pieces of a grout float I cut for this purpose attatched with our trusty electrical tape  ;D

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP066.jpg)

After sharpening to an edge on the medium stone and honing the edge to a burr on the fine stone I use this simple set-up to strop the burr off leaving us with a hair shavin sharp knife over the entire length of the edge.  The strop is just a piece of leather strap tacked to the edge of a 2x4 that gets "loaded up" with white jewelers rogue.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP067.jpg)

This'n here is pretty self explainitory but it does show a good view of the straw color we achieved with our tempering cycles.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP068.jpg)

Now the actual testing of the blade is about to begin. I start off with the "brass rod test" .  After sharpening we clamp the brass in the vise and push the edge against the rod util we see it deflect over the rod.  Maintaining the downward pressure that causes the deflection we'll draw the blade over the rod for the entire length of the edge.  This test is perforemed to check the temper and be certain the edge is hardened.  Too low of a temper and the edge will be brittle and chip out.  Too high of a temper or a blade thats not fully hardened and the edge will deform and stay deformed instead of springing back to shape after the deflecting pressure is removed from the edge.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP069.jpg)

It's at this point that the delaminated weld revealed it's ungly head

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/BelduqueWIP070.jpg)


This does suck !  But it does prove the benefit of testing your blades prior to finishing them up.  This would have been MUCH MUCH more tragic had I just finished up the blade, handle, silver wire, and sheath and assumed everything was ok.

Thanks again for follerin along Pards.  We will get back on track and continue on ASAP

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Ned Buckshot on February 20, 2010, 02:32:08 PM
What a drag Josh! :'(

But as you say I guess it can happen.

Ned
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP: Pluses and Minuses ...
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 20, 2010, 04:00:28 PM
Josh, the minus side has been dealt with far better than I could ever put into words ...

But the positive side; what is the mathematical chance of having a camera next to you in time to record a delamination?

I have a video (unfotunately, with my ex wife in it *S*) of a sunset in Hawaii ... same type of thing ... although it has my ex in it, I have a video of the green flash! What is the chances of having a camera going when the green flash occurs ... and beyond that, what is the chance of getting a recording of the green flash?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_flash

I know that it must be a terrible blow to get a knife this far along and end up with a magnificent envelope opener ....

But on the bright side, I have never seen a pic of a delamination before ... like that pic of the green flash, one just has to take the good with the bad ....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 20, 2010, 06:27:28 PM
WWE,

We will tredge on !   ;D

We will have to wait now and see how this plays out.  I e-mailed the fella who made the steel so we'll see what he has to say.  I did offer to send him the blade if he wants to examine it or crack it in two to get a look at the delaminated spot. I'm not sure if that would tell him anything or not but I made the offer just in case.

He may say- This happens once in awhile, I'll send ya another billet
OR- Your screwed so go jump in a lake,  LOL    Fortunately for me there's a lake across the street   ;D ;)

If I end keeping the blade I'll probably crack that bad spot off and turn it into a kitchen knife for my wife, Shhhh.   If needed I could also anneal (un-harden) this blade and make something much smaller out of the steel. It's actually still a decent size after removing the bad spot because it is down towards the edge so all will not be totally lost.

This is something that most makers who regularly use damascus have experienced so a fella just has to take the good with the bad and chaulk it up to experience.

In defense of the fella that made the steel, it did look fine on the outside and this problem was caused by a flaw inside the steel that he couldn't have identified.

Such is life and whatever happens we'll get some new steel and and get this show back on the road.

-Josh

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Will Ketchum on February 20, 2010, 06:49:44 PM
Josh, just curious, couldn't you anneal it and then try forge welding it?  Heck if you were making it for me I'd have you grind it down past the flaw and weld a piece over the top which wouldn't me noticeable with the handle on.  I realize it's a pride in workmanship but I'm a Marine, we adapt, improvise, overcome ;)

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 20, 2010, 08:58:14 PM
Josh (and Will),

Josh and I spent a lot of time on emails before this project was even started ... probably several months of email.

If there is one thing I have learned in my 60+ years, it is to find an artisan or at least a craftsman that you trust implicitely. Then tell him what you need and give the whole project over to him ...

Telling you Josh what to do would be like you trying to tell me how to put an intravenous line in in a life raft in the middle of an ocean ... neither of us has a clue into the skills the other has.

So I guess what I am doing is trusting in you Josh and your inherent skills at metal work and more importantly, making knives.
You know what I need and I have no doubt you will go beyond my needs and present me with a knife that has things I didn't even KNOW I needed ... *S*

I know that you will not put your name on anything that you are not proud of ... and I rely on that ...

I really believe that, years from now, when I am asked to show this knife, I will get, "Oooh, an Early Josh Dabney!"

'Nuff said.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Dave Cole on February 21, 2010, 07:59:54 AM
Josh, just curious, couldn't you anneal it and then try forge welding it?  Heck if you were making it for me I'd have you grind it down past the flaw and weld a piece over the top which wouldn't me noticeable with the handle on.  I realize it's a pride in workmanship but I'm a Marine, we adapt, improvise, overcome ;)

Will Ketchum

Josh, that really sucks, and you know I have had the same experience.Will, technically it would be possible to re-forge it, but several problems arise.One, the knife at this point, is extremely thin, making overheating a real possibility.Two, while it may be posssible to re-flux the area and re-forge, it is almost impossible to know if you succeeded in closing the ENTIRE delamination or just closed the opening resulting in an pocket within the bar.Sadly you don't find the pockets until your grinding the blade out.
Finally,like you said ,it's pride in one's workmanship.Once a delam is found in a bar of steel, the rest of the billet becomes suspect in most makers minds.Due to the extremes of making damascus, this is not a rare problem and it is much easier to replace the billet.Like Josh said, the knife can always be cut down past the delam and used for something else for HIM. Passing suspect steel onto customers is bad for business and can hurt a makers reputation if that blade were to fail.I applaude Josh for doing the right thing here.Dave :)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 21, 2010, 09:38:54 AM
I have got in touch with the maker and am going to ship the blade out to him for his inspection so we'll know for sure if it'll be a replacement billet from him or damascus shopping ,LOL.

Will-  There is another problem of re-forge welding a delamanation like this.  The surfaces to be forge welded need to be free of defects.  During the process of making damascus when folding or stacking the billet the maker will grind the welding surfaces free of scale and impurities before attempting to weld them.  In this case we'ld have to break the delam off the billet and clean up both surfaces then tack them back together and flux to have a chance at a proper weld.  Of course we would then have to grind the tack off of the finished billet.

As Dave mentioned the steel is just too thin for a repair to be possible.    While making a damascus billet the billet itself will begin (for example) with dimensions of 1 1/2" x 4" x 6"    and through out the process of making the damascus this billet may be drawn out any number of times and cut up and restacked back into a billet near the original size.   Typically the actual welding part of the process takes place with a short, fat, thick billet like this.  In the final operation the billet will then be drawn out as the last step in the process but during the drawing out the forge welding is already done and the maker is basically just changing the size of the billet at that point.

As Dave also mentioned a flaw in damascus makes it "suspect".   Although the rest of the steel is most likely fine it would be VERY bad business to use this steel on a customers knife.    Knifemakers live and die by their reputation.  It can be a difficult and lenghthy process for a maker to build a reputation of quality, honesty, and integrety that gains the trust of customers and respect from his knifemaking peers and to accept any known risk to the quality of the end product is unacceptable.  At least to me  ;D

In this case my use of the Marines motto would be -

Improvise- Crack the bad spot off the blade
Adapt- redesign a smaller knife that could be done with the steel that's left
Overcome- Finish the smaller knife design

If I end up with the knife back that is what I'll do with it  ;)   Of course I am hoping that he'll just send a new Billet

-Josh

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Shotgun Steve on February 21, 2010, 10:18:19 AM
 It is a shame that the billet was bad. The knife was coming along nicely. But like
you said Josh... it happens. I know that the end product will be a treat for the eye's
and totally dependable or none of your customers would receive the blade. Thats important
to a buyer...doing business with someone you can trust. Take care and I hope your
next blade moves along with no problems.

 Shotgun Steve
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on February 22, 2010, 09:54:36 AM
Actually this was a very successful test because it revealed hidden flaws in the source material. That's a very good thing! inconvenient in the short term, but very good.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 22, 2010, 10:11:47 AM
It is really hard to wait for this to happen ... I keep reminding myself of how many rockets blew up on the pad in the early days of our space program.

I just keep reminding myself of what high standards Josh has, and trust in his judgement .... actually, his standards are higher than mine ... *S*

It's just in this world of immediate gratification, it just doesn't seem fair to either of us to get this close and have it go haywire;
it reminds me of the cartoon where two buzzards are on a high plateau watching a dying cowboy crawl accross the desert ... one buzzard says to the other, "Patience, hell! I'm gonna go kill something!"

I know exactly how that buzzard felt ....*L*
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on February 22, 2010, 01:32:23 PM
Now if ya get a nice green stone like a peridot and add to the the new knife somewhere you would have The Green Flash Beldouque :)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on February 24, 2010, 03:18:04 PM
Josh,

If you decide to continue this on a new thread could you please note it here. I'm not a regular in this forum and I don't want to miss it if you start the thread over.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 24, 2010, 03:57:14 PM
Kflach,

My plan is to catch up to where we are then continue this thread right here with the rest of the build.

I did mail the Blade out to the maker of the steel Moday so I should be hearing something back within a couple days.

Thanks for your interest Pard,  Josh   ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on February 24, 2010, 04:25:45 PM
Thanks. I figured it would be a while before you started up again. I just didn't want to miss out if you decided to start a completely new thread. This has been very enjoyable.


I grew up in Japan and I've watched a number of things on creating Katanas. However, this is my first exposure to this type of thing. It looks like something I could actually learn to do someday.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 24, 2010, 05:32:46 PM
Kflach,

Actually, the idea of folding dissemilar steels together to get a mix of their virtues was not only a middle east phenomenon ... the middle easterns and Spanish (i.e Toledo steel) had their Damascus, India had its wootz steel, and the making of the best samurai swords and katanas all used that idea ...

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Damascus_steel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wootz_steel

http://www.scribd.com/doc/5284064/Making-a-Japanese-Sword
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on February 25, 2010, 01:32:44 AM
I do not know of such things,but when i saw the picture my heart sunk clear down to my belly,OHHH NOOO!!! But i do know that you don't make no trash,and i knew that one was a gonner and you would start all over a new one.I got to hand it to ya Josh,you sure are takin it good,ida been "YAPPOFRAPPINSTICKPIGGER^@#!&())_(*)*(*&&^*&^_)(&**(&^)_(*^^~~~ and would have to take 3 days to calm down... :o :-[ :-\ :-X >:(
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Dave Cole on February 25, 2010, 08:19:59 AM
Believe me Rick,Josh was more than a bit upset   :o. I had a similar problem with a very large piece of Damascus I bought.I had purchased a special ( meaning thicker and bigger than normal) piece for a large knife.After laying out the blade design on the steel it was on to the bandsaw to cut it.After the first long cut I saw a split down the center of the billet, and the cussing ensued  ;D.Took e about 3 weeks to get a new piece and it was fine.Just part of the problems when dealing with metals.Dave :)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 25, 2010, 09:23:38 AM
Right on Dave !

Being aware of the potential risks involved in working with damascus steel before begining eases the pain, LOL.   

I do also find that I have MUCH more patience in dealing with problems doing something I enjoy like making knives  ;D 

If I had issues with making another blade I'd be in the WRONG business Pards   ;)

There are of course other things involved though that bring the expected onslaught of cussin to light.

Supposing a replacement billet is given I'm still out-
1. Time of lost productivity- something you never get back
2. Abrasives- Approx- a couple belts and 4 or 5 sheets of paper for the disk, probably a tune of $12 or so
3. Bandsaw blade life and drill bit wear- minimal, but still invested in this blade
4. Basically used the life of a carbide dremel burr
5. Electricity- powers my tools, HT oven, temering oven, lights in the shop, etc. etc.

Overall though I made that one an have the ability to make another,  and that's what really eases the pain  ;D

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 25, 2010, 02:29:59 PM
Damascus UPDATE:

I just got off the phone with the maker of the damascus and he is going to provide a replacement billet !!!   HOORAY !!!

As suspected there was a flaw in the weld that caused the delamination so another billet will be made tomorrow and shipped out asap. 

Also in credit to the fellow is that he's also going to return the original blade that can be put to use in the making of a smaller blade. 

As it stands we'll be back on track before you know it and having the original steel to sorta compensate me for work that went into the original blade is unexpected but certainly welcomed.  Sometimes thing seem to just workout for the best all on their own  ;D

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 25, 2010, 04:54:06 PM
Huzzah and HUZZAH!

When one thinks of all the possible outcomes that might have happened, it is looking like you got the best result that could have occurred (other than the knife not having the void in the first place ...).

And when you are carving your next roast with your Damascene carving knife, just think of the anecdote you can weave ... 'As a matter of fact, this here knife started it's life to be entirely different ...."

I have been praying, keeping my fingers crossed , petting my rabbit's foot and saying novenas (and I am not even that religion! *S*) that this was what would happen ... I am so pleased for you!

And will you do a WIP on the 'mistake' as well? I know I would love to see it take life too!

P.S. the pic below is not really a Belduque, but a South American cousin called the Punal Croillo ... but it is so pretty that I just wanted to show it....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on February 25, 2010, 05:55:25 PM
When you say weld,is that a hammered fold?How to you mean the term weld???? :-[ I never knew that damasscuss had so much to think about,me being the layman i just see purty.. :)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 25, 2010, 07:11:34 PM
Rick,

Although this article has the faults found in much of wikipedia, the information in it seems to be correct and give a good overview of the Damascening process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel

Probably fairly rare in the American West, I am guessing that a trade Damascene Belduque could probably have found its way into the hands of a Californio ... probably. There were good trading connections through Mexico and many of the ports of South America, eventually connecting to Spanish traders.

Besides, I have always wanted a big Damascene knife ... I have a wootz steel Indian made Bowie that Chuck Burrows was kind enough to 'antique' for me (again, the chance of owning a Damascene Bowie in the 1870s would be extremely low ... I just wanted one ...)

But when it came up that I would need an Hispanic Belduque for my Californio outfit, I thought: 1.) about how most of the finished products for Californios were imported, and 2.) That a Californio would try to only have the best in fittings and horse, and  3.) That there were established trade routes from Californio all the way back to Spain ....

Hence the Damascene Belduque (and the fact that I am not unlike the Californios in that I would rather get the best and live on beans to afford it ... {and I wonder why I am divorced ... *S*}).
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on February 25, 2010, 09:53:03 PM
 :D Two good lessons :D :D I know what ya mean though,i like them Bush beans myself,served with saltines ;)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on February 26, 2010, 12:07:31 AM
GCR,

We sure are taliking about a forge weld that is hammered (or pressed with a hydraulic press) together. 

Here's a basic example of how a billet is made.  The billet will start as a stack of 2 or more alternating layers of steel.  Say 3 layers of 5160 and 2 layers of 15N20.  These layers will be cut from 2" x 1/4" x 5" flat bar giving a stack thats 2" x 1 1/4" x 5". 

Now the stack will be stitched up the corners with a Mig or Arc weld to hold the stack together while in the forge getting to welding heat.  Commonly a rebar handle will also be welded on.           

Now the billet will go into the forge. The billet also has to be fluxed while comming up to heat. Flux is a powder thats sprinkled on the hot billet that turns to liquid when it hits the steel.  The purpose of this is to keep oxygen from comming into contact with the inside and creating scale.  If scale forms on the inside of the billet it will end being a flaw like an inclusion.

When up to welding heat (2300 degrees) the billet  is hammered with a power hammer or squeezed in a press to make the billet weld.  Each place the two steels meet each other is a weld so in our 5 layer billet we start with 4 forge welded surfaces.

Now the forge welded billet is drawn out. for our example lets say that it's drawn out to a 1" square 12 inches long.  We still have 5 flat layers  in our billet.

Now the billet will be cut in half and re-stacked and begin the initial process again. Now we'll have a 10 layer billet.  Then 20, 40, 80, 160, etc until the desired layer count is reached. 

There are many different ways to manipulate the steel to create the pattern at this point. 

Lets say we do a twist pattern.  The billet will now be drawn out to a one inch bar and actually twisted up  then hammered flat.  Now we have a twist pattern billet. 

Now there are many variations of the twist pattern.  One popular thing is to make a multi-bar twist pattern.  To do this instead of flattening after twisting we would have drawn our twisted billet out to say a 1/2" square bar then cut into 4 pieces ansd stacked and welded the finall billet with the twists arranged in opposing patterns.

Remember that each time a forge weld is made the sufaces to be welded have to be free of scale thats created in the forge.  Also the Mig or Arc welds must be ground away to prevent flaws or a spot of low carbon steel in the billet.

This gives a general idea of how damascus is made.

-Josh

                   
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 26, 2010, 06:19:43 PM
Josh,

I bow to your explanation ... far better than I could aspire to ....

The main place that Damascus steel might have been seen in the West was probably in fine English Shotguns.

A Damascene barrel was seen as the ultimate barrel by many fine English shotgun makers ....

http://www.lcsmith.org/shotguns/1880grades.html
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on February 26, 2010, 10:09:15 PM
I have been duley,dooley,doolly---thourally --? I am now smarter than i was,thanks Josh.. :) :)

I wished that show was still on tv where it was about forges and steel making,i loved that program,it had  different smiths on it.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on February 26, 2010, 10:45:48 PM
I have been duley,dooley,doolly---thourally --? I am now smarter than i was,thanks Josh.. :) :)

You want to join me in a vaudeville act?
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: santee on February 27, 2010, 07:34:04 AM
I have been following these Belduque threads for a month, now. I'm really taken by this knife. Josh's representation is going to be a masterpiece, for sure.
One reason I like it because it's different from the frontier bowie style, which is so common with reenactors and CAS. You can bet I'll be saving up for a Belduque!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on February 27, 2010, 01:18:22 PM
You want to join me in a vaudeville act?

Dooley livin in a holler,Duley tryin ta make a dollar,gonna marry her someday~~~~~ ;D Tell "em" Goober says hey~tsk'~
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on February 27, 2010, 05:47:11 PM
If you compare a Belduque or a Criollo to a SEARLES Bowie I think there is more than a coincidental similarity.

Especially if you look at that little scallop between the guard and the blade on the Searles. What we have here is whether there is a guard - or not!

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,30761.0.html
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 28, 2010, 01:01:53 AM
There does seem to be a common ancestor for the Bowie and the 'Creole' (Criollo) knives. And it was the Belduque/Criollo that started making both the top and blade side of knives into cutting surfaces ... as does the Bowie ...

But it is not my wisdom or knowledge that can cause that missing link knife to be found ....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on February 28, 2010, 01:43:38 PM
What is the scallop for?Just identifying mark or some use?
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on February 28, 2010, 03:58:24 PM
My theory is that it is meant to be kind to the second phalanges of your knife hand.  Then it becomes stylized.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 02, 2010, 05:17:26 PM
Rick,

I haven't a clue about the scallop ... it is seen on some Belduques and seems to be missing on others ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on March 02, 2010, 06:08:35 PM
Those are some nice Belduques WWE.  Take a look at the outer two of the three damascus blades.  The scallop is there, but the arc extends over most of the back of the blade
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 02, 2010, 06:23:46 PM
Sir Charles,

I remain clueless ... but there is a tradition of a paisley like cutout on the back of the blades to be sure ....

But I will refer this question to Josh Dabney, 'cause I have never seen anyone address this design in any history of the Belduque I have ever read ...

And, come to think of it, if I am wearing it as a docent, I am sure I will be asked about that particular part of the design.

So Josh, whatever you say I am going to parrot to the people I will be docent to ....

BTW, several of those knives are off people's web pages ... the one with the blue-ish sheath with heart is from Chris's Knives ( http://www.whirlwindtraders.com/chrisknifepage.html ), and the group of three knives if from the Delaronde webpage ( http://www.delarondeforge.com/Knives.htm )
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on March 02, 2010, 08:57:41 PM
Wadd;  I think you know this site quite well;

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/facon/criollo.html

About the middle, under the discussion of the PUNALE, this author also makes the connection of these Southern European/Latin American knives may have a common heritage with the Searles style of bowie.

I don`t know the origin of the scallop, but assume that "form follows function".  An edged weapon used for stabbing requires protection for the users hand. A guard or basket is sometimes used, but these weapons merely dropped the blade and profiled the rear of the blade to protect the hand.  Some of the Argentine knives, whether Facon, Punale, or Criollo, have the scallop, and some don't.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on March 02, 2010, 09:45:42 PM
Maybe they are for pulling gold off the tooth of the deceased :-X
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 02, 2010, 10:14:06 PM
Sir Charles,

I reread the article ... what an excellent article!

I once emailed Mr Domenech out of the blue ... explained my interest in Belduques.

His replay was kind, well thought out and almost courtly.

But I did find the comment I think you were talking about ... it concerns the knives shown below ... and it reads:

Photo 18. Four Argentine puñales, mounted in silver, showing their square bolsters or botón cuadrado (rectangular in overall cross section, but with facets replacing what would have been sharp edges, so actually octagonal). Notice also the semicircular notch on the ricasso, used to rest the index finger and prevent the hand from slipping towards the edge when stabbing.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on March 02, 2010, 10:44:48 PM
Howdy Pards,

I'm sure no history expert so read this fer what it is, hearsay,opinion, and in general a regurgitation of things I've read other places.

The Scalloped part your taking about is commonly refer to as a "Spanish notch"  so it would seem to make sense that many knives of Spanish heritage and/or inspiration may have a notch included at the will of either the maker or customer.

I have read folks claiming that the notch is a "tactical" feature included for the purpose of catching the blade of an opponent which would protect your own hand and provide an oppertunity to twist the opponents blade out of his hand.

My take is that it's purely a decorative thing included to add some interest and class to what is basically a big ole plain kitchen knife.  Embelishment of tools and weapons has been around as long as the tools themselves to add value, distinction, and personalization to what may otherwise be a non-descript blade.

I also wouldn't dismiss the chance that once upon a time there was a knife fight where this type of thing actually did happen with a Spanish notch saving the day by catching the opponents blade.  It certainly would have become a legendary in short order.

Again this info is just my opinion and relies on NO quotable facts that could be verified.

Good discussion Pards !   Josh   ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: ChuckBurrows on March 02, 2010, 10:57:11 PM
The scallop or Spanish Notch as most commonly known has been discussed ad infintum elsewhere with all kind so "ideas" behind (some quite far-fetched) but historical it's nothing more than a relic of a past design and has very little practical value - the past design is the sword breaker left hand knives used in the Spanish style of fencing.......

The curved dropped edge is a more or less "modern" design (although the Searles type is an early version, but still has an added guard) and is found most often on knives made in South America i.e Argentina or Brazil. FWIW - on another forum there is a section for makers form these areas - an interesting read for those who read mostly Portugee and/or Espanol..........

All of these knives by whatever name - French chef's, Belduques, punales, Mediterranean dirks, etc, have a common ancestor - the late medieval style using kitchen/knife, and in the case of the Belduque they were adapted for the use of piercing armor (chain mail at least), thus the thick heavy blades commonly seen and the sharpened back or false edge...............
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 02, 2010, 11:13:30 PM
Thank you Josh and Chuck,

I knew if I hemmed and hawed enough someone with both the knowledge and the background would come forth with an educated explanation.

Regardless of what it does or was designed to do, it shore looks purty.

And in the end, that may have been all that mattered ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: ChuckBurrows on March 02, 2010, 11:22:18 PM
Glad to be of help Skip - Belduques and their variants are my favorite knives. - my number one, everyday  using knife is an 8" old "Old Henry" chef's knife that I found buried in a garden over 30 years ago and cleaned up ...........

Josh - give me a call sometime - latr afternoon or early evening my time (Mtn time - 2 hours difference) is best and we'll talk period knives and sheaths..........
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Messerist on March 06, 2010, 05:30:13 PM
Excellent thread!  Too bad about the weld failure.  Hope part deux works out better for you.  I wish I had a dime for every mistake or metal flaw I've had while making knives.  I'd have a bucket-load of dimes!  My little six-year old helped me reclaim this little skinner after I found a crack in the edge while heat treating.  I threw the blade in my "mistake box" and continued to march.  Several months later my daughter was sitting next to me patiently watching while I worked on a knife.  She asked if I had a knife she could make.  Well I dug through my box and pulled out the defunct skinner.  I showed her the flaw and gave her a sharpie marker and said she could re-design it.  Here is the end result.  Of course Daddy did the more dangerous stuff but I kinda like her style(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt204/messerist/shortknife010.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 06, 2010, 06:57:48 PM
Messerist,

Thank you for the sentiment ... I have every faith in Josh and his skills and workmanship ... even more faith in his integrity ...

But I was talking to the man who is making the Botas that the Belduque will sit in ... and he is backed up and going to be late ...

So even if I had it now I would have no place to wear it ...

And your daughter bringing new life to a blade ... that is so special ... long after other knives and your daughter has gone the ways of a later time, you will always have that knife to keep her near ....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on March 16, 2010, 07:36:23 PM
Wanted to bump this back up and let yall know that I'll be resuming this WIP right where we left off hopfully within the next few days   ;D

I have had my hands full time wise with my daughter being born 8 weeks early and remaining in the hospital.   I will assure yall that although tiny she's a tough one and is doing wonderfully .  She's very healthy ESPECIALLY for a premie her age and continues to make progress every day  ;D   She is done with pretty much everything she began with, CPAP, IV, Antibiotics and the like and is doing great and begining to gain weight.  Health wise she's just waiting to gain some weight and maintain her temp and she'll be comming home.  It could be awhile yet but we're in very high spirits that she is so healthy and we're left with no worries about her health   ;D

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/DanielleNICU049.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/DanielleNICU047.jpg)

WWE has been EXTREMELY understanding of the delay and I can't thank him enough for that !!!!!!

Hopefully once rolling again we'll make it through without problems and get the Re-Belduque finished up and in the hands of WWE.   Who knows we just may have a few tricks up our sleeve to make it worth the wait   ;D

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on March 16, 2010, 07:49:00 PM
What a little darlin'.  Lotsa hair.  You didn't tell us her name. 

Tell Wadd he can practice his patience a bit longer.  After me, Wadd:  "Ommmmm, Ommmmm,Ommmmm."  ::) )
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 16, 2010, 08:21:07 PM
Forty Rod,

I have a 'little' (i.e. 5 1/2" blade) trade Belduque that will do me just fine ... I was out in all my stuff with the Old Sac Historical Society for the St. Patties Day parade ... in which, all the bands played English and Scottish tunes ... If I heard 'Cock of the North" one more time .... and with Scottish bagpipes no less!

But to get back to the point, every adult who acknowledged me to their child would say, 'look here's a cowboy!' LOL
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 16, 2010, 08:38:51 PM
Josh, Forty Rod et al,

I waxed really poetic and lost the whole reply ... be happy I did; it was pretty soporific (sp?) ...

But the gist of it was that the knife will wait ... and I would rather wait than have you make decisions that are against your best wishes just to keep up the deadline ...

Just remember that you are right where the Big Guy wants you to be ... and treasure these moments while your daughter still lets you hug her ... for, as so many in here will back me up with, it will be like a blink of the eye and she will be waltzing out the door on her way to her first prom ....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on March 16, 2010, 10:47:49 PM
Wanted to bump this back up and let yall know that I'll be resuming this WIP right where we left off hopfully within the next few days   ;D

I have had my hands full time wise with my daughter being born 8 weeks early and remaining in the hospital.   I will assure yall that although tiny she's a tough one and is doing wonderfully .  She's very healthy ESPECIALLY for a premie her age and continues to make progress every day  ;D   She is done with pretty much everything she began with, CPAP, IV, Antibiotics and the like and is doing great and begining to gain weight.  Health wise she's just waiting to gain some weight and maintain her temp and she'll be comming home.  It could be awhile yet but we're in very high spirits that she is so healthy and we're left with no worries about her health   ;D

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/DanielleNICU049.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/DanielleNICU047.jpg)

WWE has been EXTREMELY understanding of the delay and I can't thank him enough for that !!!!!!

Hopefully once rolling again we'll make it through without problems and get the Re-Belduque finished up and in the hands of WWE.   Who knows we just may have a few tricks up our sleeve to make it worth the wait   ;D

-Josh



Hey Josh,do we get a WIP on that one ;D Your eyes tell the story pard,congratulations toYOU!!! They will break your heart when they get married and move to Texas :'(
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on March 16, 2010, 11:17:53 PM
Good point Forty,  LOL.   Our little Sweetie's name is Danielle  ;D

GCR,  We could do a WIP on this one but the C-section pics may not be for the squeemish,  LOL  ;) ;D 

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on March 17, 2010, 09:25:51 AM
My beloved daughter is now 15. She's provided me with some of the happiest moments of my life. Congrats Josh! I'm glad to hear everything is coming along and I wish you all the best!

p.s. This weekend she's supposed to go with me to her very first NCOWS shooting Match. She confirmed that last night and to be honest I was so excited that it took me a long time to get to sleep.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 17, 2010, 09:30:25 AM
Kflach,

You must have a very special relationship with your daughter ... most fifteen year olds want to deny that their parents exist ... mine used to want me to drop them off two blocks before the school so that they would not have to be seen with their 'Dad' .... sigh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on March 17, 2010, 10:06:58 AM
Good point Forty,  LOL.   Our little Sweetie's name is Danielle  ;D
-Josh

One of my favorite names.  She can keep it. (As if I had a say in the matter.)

My daughter will be 42 in May and it seems like she finally found a guy she wants to spend her life with.  We'll see.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on March 17, 2010, 12:12:58 PM
WWE,

I'm very fortunate. I've invested a lot of time in my daughter and so far it's paid off. My wife carried my daughter for nine months, but I carried her more than that once she was born (and she was much heavier). Believe it or not I've said that in front of my wife several times and haven't got a word of argument out of her.

She gives me a hard time now and then, but she's supposed to - and occasionally I give it back! [Come to think of it, I wrote that sentence about my daughter, but it covers my wife, too. <grin>]

It's also nice to know that even if they're not as close to you when they're in their teens, they often realize you might not have been so stupid after all once they hit their early twenties.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Shotgun Steve on March 17, 2010, 01:03:36 PM
 She's beautiful Josh!! I am very glad to hear she is doing so well.
I will keep her in my prayers. Take care.

 Steve
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on March 17, 2010, 03:51:24 PM
When my wife was in labor she invented a new cuss word.WYYOUFLUBBERHEADEDSOBI'MGONNAKILLYAASSOONASIGETOUTTAHERE. The nurse actually bought me a beer,told me to go drink it and come back in say, an hour or so and i have a baby and a passed out wife ;D

She tries to poison me once a week now,been goin on for 32 years last count,but that's why i always have a dog ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 17, 2010, 06:14:24 PM
Kflach,

I lost my first son at a year and a half, and my second son was part of a package deal involving wife #2 ... just kidding ... but actually, all that is true, but I do love my second son.

I understand that he felt he had to be loyal to his biological Mom, but it does not make the house any less quiet ....

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on March 22, 2010, 11:50:23 PM
Well Pards...

We're approaching the point where we left off with the WIP .  Not quite there yet but getting close.

I did approach things a little differently on this blade due to having some issues drilling the pin holes.  Typically when you buy Damascus it comes from the maker fully annealed (soft) with the grain set up for hardening.  After breaking 3 or 4   1/16" bits and burning up a bunch of 1/8" bits working on the pin holes I decided NOT to take this blade as far before HT-ing the blade.   Due to the steel not being fully annealed I suspect that the maker did NOT refine the grain properly after forging the steel so I decided to heat cycle the blade 3 times to refine the grain prior to quenching.  To refine the grain you have to heat the steel to increasingly less temps from the first heat above critical ,1550 degrees, then 1475, then 1400.  This refines the grain and sets the steel up for hardening but also causes scale that cannot be prevented and needs to be ground away after HT.

Heres a couple pics to wet yall's whistle while waiting for us to break into new ground.

Here she is cooking in the oven during the grain refinement process.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/KDfolder106.jpg)

Here it is cooling down

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/KDfolder107.jpg)

Here she is after the quench

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/KDfolder110.jpg)

Here is a pic of the new quench tank I had to get to fit this blade

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/KDfolder111.jpg)

Oh did I mention that this Billet is a little wider allowing a little longer blade than the original blade.  Sure hope WWE likes that Idea ;D

-Josh



Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 23, 2010, 12:19:27 AM
Josh,

What adult male does not fantasize about a bigger and longer .... knife!

I just measured my lower leg ... from just below the knee at the smallest circumference to the ankle it is just about 12" ... so as long as the blade is under 12" I think we are pretty jake ...

I had written alot more ... but the website kept telling me I had already posted it and I had to cancel the whole thing and start over ...

Oh yeah, I was saying the with the newer/bigger/larger quench tank you are ready when you get all those orders for those South American sword/knives ....

*S*

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on March 23, 2010, 12:40:49 AM
WWE,

We had talked about a little bigger blade than the first one so I wasn't too concerned about asking you first.  We actually gained 1 1/4" of length so we're at 10 3/8" from the front of the bolster to the tip  ;D

You'll definately be able to use the line "That aint a knife......  THIS is a knife"

I'm  already liking the profile of the new Belduque much better than the old one.   Sometimes things just work out fer the better huh  ;)

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 23, 2010, 01:21:12 AM
Josh,

I think that the 10+ inches is much closer to the original size of a Belduque .... and any more and the tip of the sheath would be dragging the ground ... LOL.

I'm trying to be so good ... no, I won't go into things like knife envy, knife versus feet size or any of the other jokes.

But the knife looks fantastic ... I printed up the pages to show my friends at the soup kitchen I volunteer with ... surprisingly, one of the people who is interested in this is the head chef ... especially since the origin of the knife was common Belgian/French kitchen knives ...

I have a couple of other ideas, but I will send you a PM about them tomorrow ... as the Brits say, I'm all fagged out tonight. Not up to another email ...

Especially since it is 2330 here and 0530 comes all too soon!

TTFN for tonight ....

Or hang on for that 0200 feeding ....

Best wishes either way ....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on March 23, 2010, 10:33:26 AM

What adult male does not fantasize about a bigger and longer .... knife!


Men brag that everything they have is bigger...'cept their cell phones.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on March 23, 2010, 02:28:54 PM
I keep trippin over mine >:(
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on March 23, 2010, 04:00:19 PM
Yeah right, shorthorn.   ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on March 23, 2010, 04:14:11 PM
Before I go any further with the Belduque it's durn sure I'm gonna sharpen her up and give her a little test run.  I thinnied out the edge enough to sharpen then cut the edge in with a 220 grit belt then hand sharpened on the stone and stropped.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque012.jpg)

Her she is stuck in a 2x4.  I stabbed her in and bent over to the side or twisted  just to check out the stability of the tip.  Although it's still pretty thick and strong I would still expect the very tip to break off if large grain or otherwise poor heat treat were present.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque015.jpg)

A blade this size will be asked to do many chores so we'd better besure she's capable of chopping wood without edge damage.   I chopped this piece of 2x4 as hard as I could at least 40 or 50 times then proceeded to split the wood up across the grain using another 2x4 as a hammer.  Not recommended of course  ;D  but if there is going to be any problem at all with the blade I want it to happen right now instead of in the hands of WWE  ;)

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque016.jpg)

The required POST testing shave  8)

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque017.jpg)

Now that I've begun grinding the finished bevels and are getting fairly close it's time to answer the question that I'm sure is on everyones mind...  Whats the Damascus look like ????  Keep in mind this is at 120 grit and an etch of maybe 20 seconds which is really just so we can see the pattern.  It'll look much better as a finished product

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque019.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque020.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque021.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque022.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque023.jpg)



Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 23, 2010, 05:07:30 PM
Josh,

That is just plain gorgous already!

I am hoping you are thinking about using this for a webpage ... it (both the pics and the commentary) validates just how much work, time experience and knowledge go into making a blade ...so that if anyone has a question about value-for-price, this would say it all!

I just hope the botas appear in time to show this beauty off!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 24, 2010, 08:36:57 AM
Josh,

I was looking at the pics this morning before shoving off to my duties, and I was struck by one very special thing ... probably something that was pretty obvious to most, but certainly caught my eye this morning.

I was looking at your kiln, and thought to myself that the investment in that kiln, should I want to attempt to make this knife myself, would have probaby cost more than the cost of this knife ... and I started looking around at the background of your shop and realized that I do not have most of the tools that you have there ... I always thought that someone with basic woodworking tools could manage to make a blade.

They probably could too, but without things like long handled pliers and such, the Emergency Room bills would probably be more than having the knife made by an artist such as yourself ... and I can just see me telling my spouse (probably why I don't have one). "Honey, I am just going to use your oven today to heat this billet up to 1500 degrees  ... don't mind the smell; it will leave the house in two or three days ...'  come to think of it, it is picadillos of exactly this type that probably drove my wives away ....*S*

So as I say my prayers this morning, I will thank the Big Guy that I have you, your skills, (and lastly your shop) in my circle.

Kudos!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Dave Cole on March 24, 2010, 09:36:15 AM
Josh,

I am hoping you are thinking about using this for a webpage ... it (both the pics and the commentary) validates just how much work, time experience and knowledge go into making a blade ...so that if anyone has a question about value-for-price, this would say it all!

WWE,you probably forgot a few adjectives like passion, commitment and just being nuts ;D.Which is why Josh and I became fast friends.After doing this so many years I have had quite a few guys come through thinking they would like to try thier hands a knifemaking.Josh is the only one of the bunch that ever showed immeadiate promise of doing so.He came in with a very good skill level, so I didn't have to teach very much at all, mostly just giving those tips and tricks only learned by experience.He truly is like a sponge, and just soaks in the info.He is right know far ahead of alot of newer makers and I really think he'll go far.
As for tools, I have seen many nice knives made without that luxury, done with mostly hacksaws and files, but like most crafts the tools make life and production go much easier.Knifemakers usually find as they get more experienced need to get more and more tools to keep production flowing.Multiple grinders and drill presses are the norm, bandsaws, forges and heat-treating equipment,leatherworking tools ,you get the picture.So not much spending money to be made, as it mostly goes back into the shop and supplies.Dave :)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 24, 2010, 09:58:20 AM
Dave,

So understood about the tools: I am kind of a wood butcher ... below is my shop and the router table cabinet I built in it ... but I always had this kind of juvenile Mickey Rooney/Andy Hardy (am I showing my age or what? *S*) thought that I could just use my woodworking tools and do a knife ... and I am beginning to see just how wrong I was/am!

As far as Josh, I think he is another knifemaking icon in the flesh.

Years from now, I think that people are going to look at the Belduque and mutter, 'Wow, an early Josh Dabney!'

But now I have to share him with sweet Danielle, who has to be taking up a lot of his time ... and well she should!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on March 25, 2010, 09:23:20 PM
For those who may wish to make their own knife with what they have available or VERY limited tool purchases,  it CAN be done.  This is of course dependant on a couple of factors.  Do you have access to Oxy-assetaline (sp)  torches or willing to send out for HT.   A very fine servicable knife can be made with these tools and the addition of a 4 1/2" angle grinder and a couple different wheels.  Of course a hand drill, center punch, files, and sandpaper will come in handy  ;D

Steel choice needs to be matched to heat treating capabilities but all else is just get a bunch of raw materials and remove everything that doesen't look like a knife  ;D

As Dave mentioned $$$$$$ in tools is the norm for knifemakers and I'm certainly no exception, LOL.   However many many makers got their start with very meager equipment myself included.  I went with the KIT blade option for my first few and got hooked and it's just snowballed from there.  Being that I REALLY wanted to make my own blades from scratch the tools are a natural choice so being able to get a fair dollar for your work is important just to keep the shop going.  Kit blades are a great way to get started and make knives for yourself and a real sense of accomplishment can be had,  ESPECIALLY if it's his/her first one.


-Josh  ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on March 25, 2010, 09:59:52 PM
Ok Pards,  here we go with the next steps in this dance with Belduque  ;D

This first pic shows how I worked down the profile of the handle to match the shape of the bolsters.  It's probably a good time to mention this point.  Because this knife is damascus and a full tang evrything must fit precisely together like a puzzle before anything is actually assembled.  The bolsters and scales must be gound smooth to the profile of the knife then everything taken apart to do the final etch on the steel.  Then everything has to be re-assembled permanently in exactly the same position.  This is much more difficult than epoxying everything together then grinding to the final shape.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque026.jpg)

I didn't get a bunch of pictures of the finish grinding on the blade.  This one shows how I've got the bevels gound up to full height and how much work still needs to be done on the plunge area.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque025.jpg)

During the process of grinding I again gave the blade a quick etch so now we're getting a close idea of how the steel is going to look finished

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque028.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque029.jpg)

No matter how flat you think you've got your grind on the grinder a trip to the disc grinder will reveal the areas that need attension and some time spent with the disc will give a true flat on the blade.  This pic shows clearly how much of the edge is convexed

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque030.jpg)

I've really been working on improving my machine finish to save time hand sanding which can at times be quite extensive.  This shot gives a good idea of the finish quality before hand finishing.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque031.jpg)

I'm at the point now that the rest of the work on the blade will be done by hand so I'm moving on to working on the scales before putting the final finish on the blade.  Here is my block of curly maple that will be split into scales for the Belduque. You can see I cut it to size leaving a bit extra around the perimeter, traced the handle on the wood and drilled 2 allignment holes outside the handle.  The allignment pins will ensure  the scales stay bookmatched.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque034.jpg)

Here you can see that I've marked the side of the scales that will go against the tang with an X and labeled one side 1 and the other 2.  Once the scales are split in two it's EXTREMELY easy to get them spun around so this will keep us straight.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque035.jpg)

And finally we rip the block down the middle on the bandsaw to get our scales.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque036.jpg)


Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on March 25, 2010, 10:14:36 PM
It feels real good to be in NEW territory with WWE's Belduque Pards  ;D

The bad news is that I've got a Ton of stuff going on the next couple of days and probably won't find time to work on'er.

The good news is that our tiny Danielle has continued to do wonderfully and is comming home Saturday evening  ;D   This is great news on all accounts as we'll have our girl home with us, won't be making multiple trips to the hospital everyday, will get to see her all the time, and having her home should at least double my amount of work time,  which is a good thing !

Once settleted in we should be seeing progress every day to completion   ;D

Thanks to everyone following along and a special thanks to WWE for his continued patience and understanding  :D

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 26, 2010, 12:04:57 AM
Josh,

There is no problem with patience ... I am reading Richard J Foster's book on the 'Celebration of Disciplines' with a Study group.

In it, the book talks about the Discipline of Study ... and one of the parts of study is comprehension and reflection.

Michelangelo said that he could see the statue inside of the hunk of marble ... the rest of the work was just chiseling down to it ...

That is what Danielle is doing for you. For while the rigors of your mind are working out the logistics of bringing young Danielle home, the subconscious is 'seeing', comprehending what must be done next, and 'reflecting' how you are going to do it to please your sense of rightness.

So hug your little one for me; hell, hug her Mom for me too! Tell her how much I appreciate her sharing her husband's energy and thoughts with me ...

Best wishes!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on March 27, 2010, 06:33:22 PM
I noticed this version doesn't have that Spanish notch (I think that's what ya'll called that little indention near the bottom of the blade close to the grip) that the original version had. What factor(s) led you to decide not to do it?
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on March 28, 2010, 07:39:42 PM
Whew what a process~~`LOOK OUT JOSH! THERES A HAIRY FACED LONGTOED BOOGEY VARMIT IN YOUR SHOP!!!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on March 28, 2010, 11:31:02 PM
Kflach, 

I apologize for the delayed response Pard,  been a bit hectic around here the last few days  ;D

In all honesty I just plain forgot to carve the spanish notch in before heat treating the blade  :-[    Carving the notch in may still be a possibility as the carbide burrs used for the caving should still cut the blade even though it is hardened.  I am a bit worried that it will increase the difficulty of getting a good outcome but I do have another blade to experiment on before attempting it on this blade  ;)

As an alternative if deciding it's not worth the risk I'll probably fancy up that area with file work done with diamond files which will cut the hardened blade no problem.

GCR,

That there varmit is one monkey toed ugly son-of-a-buck ain't he,  LOL   ;D

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 29, 2010, 12:20:28 AM
Josh,

That is the joy of working with a trustful man. I can just ask you to do what you think is best and leave the decision to you ...

I am reminded of a very early Cary Grant movie called "Mr Blanding Buys His Dream House'.

In it, Mr Blanding is asked if he wants dados in all the joists.

Not knowing what a dado was (or is), he asks, "Does it cost more money?"

"Yes it does!" Replies the foreman ...

"Then no, I do not want dados..." Says Blanding/Cary Grant.

To which the foreman yells to men working upstairs, "Hey you guys; tear out all the joists with dados!" Followed by the sound of ten or twenty joist falling to the next level.

The segway is that me telling you what to do would be like Cary Grant's character telling the foreman how to do his job.

I know you are going to do the right thing with it: not only that, but I would not even know what a 'Spanish Notch" was except for this site, and the wisdom of  Chuck Burrows and yourself ...

P.S. How is Dani taking to her new surroundings?

P.S.S. Here is the Wikipedia for the movie:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Blandings_Builds_His_Dream_House
 

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on March 31, 2010, 12:20:15 PM
Howdy Pards,

Finally got a little sleep and some time in the shop with Belduque  ;D

As I mentioned previously,  I REALLY want to include the spanish notch on this knife but unfortunately the carbide burr would barely touch the hardened blade  :(    As we know though,  Necesity is the Mudder of invention and sometimes it pays to experiment a little.  Since the carbide didn't do the trick I decided to try out some diamond burrs in the dremel to do the carving and it is working as good or better than the carbide on the un-hardened blade. 

Here is the proposed area of steel to be removed.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque040.jpg)

The next progression of pics give an idea of the different bits used to begin with the largest size for bulk removal and getting progressivly smaller.  The steel doesn't wear or dull the diamond abrasive but it will shear the abrasive off the burr so they do still wear out and lose their cutting ability.  The smallest of the burrs did wear out relatively quickly so I wasn't able to finish the notch but I don't forsee it being a problem once I get to the store to get some more burrs.  As of now though I'll be going back to working on the handle for the time being.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque041-1.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque042.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque043.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque044.jpg)

Danielle is home and doing wonderfully.  Eating well, sleeping, and doing a good job of maintaining her temp  ;D

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Shotgun Steve on March 31, 2010, 12:40:44 PM
Hi Josh,

I am glad to hear that Danielle is doing so well. I guess it will be a while before you get a full nights sleep again
but then babies are worth it. ;D
Looks like the diamond is doing the trick. Slow going but at least it's working. Take care.

 Steve
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 31, 2010, 05:47:14 PM
Josh,

The knife looks absolutely stunning already!

I keep going back to that movie (I think it was Wayne's World) where the two nerds bow and worship and keep saying, "I'm not worthy!"

Now I know how they felt ... Wow!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on March 31, 2010, 11:30:40 PM
Back to handle work Pards.

Here you can see I've got the first scale placed where I want it (tight against the bolster) and held in place with a C-clamp and ready to drill the first pin hole.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque047.jpg)

As soon as I drill the first hole I always put a pin in that hole before moving on to ensure nothing moves and changes the relationship between the wood and bolster.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque048.jpg)

I also keep inserting pins till I've got 3 in and then proceed with drilling the rest of the holes.  Here is the first side done.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque049.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on March 31, 2010, 11:44:30 PM
I apologize for this lousy pic but it's an important one  ;)

Here yall see where the pre-drilled allignment pin holes that are outside the profile of the handle come into play to keep our scales bookmatched and allow us to transfer our pin holes from the first side through the second.   To drill the second side I chuck my bit up in the corless drill and drill through by hand.   The hole in the first scale will keep the bit going straight.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque050.jpg)

Pin holes seem to have a knack fer being too tight and fighting ya every step of the way so at this stage I like to put pins through ALL the holes just to prevent problems down the road  ;)

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque051.jpg)


Now that I've got my pin holes done I'll put one side on at a time and use the bandsaw to cut the wood as close to the tang as I can. It's important to not that you do NOT want to hit the tang with the saw as even grazing it will chew some DEEP marks into the tang that will have to be removed.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque052.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on March 31, 2010, 11:53:57 PM
Josh,

Every time I get one of your posts, I have this love/hate thing going on.

I LOVE the step by step posts with all the pics.

I hate to see them end ... I just want to shout 'More! More!'

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on March 31, 2010, 11:58:31 PM
Here you can see that I've ground a radius around the perimeter of the wood.  Also worth noting that this was all done with a used 80 grit belt running the same speed so yall get a good idea how easily scorched the end grain of the wood is.  The scorch isn't a problem at this point but as we approach the final dimension of the handle it will become extremely important Not to scorch the wood.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque053.jpg)

Here we see how those marks I put on the inside of the scales keep things in order.  Also the circle at the top of the left scale is where I missed drilling a pin hole  :-[    No big deal though I just put a few pins in and clamped the scales in the vise and drilled it.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque054.jpg)

Now I 've got both scales bandsawed, and radiused with the 80 so I put both scales on the knife and switched to a brand new 220 grit belt to cut the wood down flush to the tang.  Now she's really begining to come together   ;D

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque055.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque056.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque057.jpg)

Now it's time to get back on the blade itself and get it prepped for the final etch  ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: ChuckBurrows on April 01, 2010, 12:09:49 AM
I've been out of the loop on this one but so far (despite the "problems"- part of a knifemakers' lot but still a pain in the patootie) what I see is DYNOMITE!

A hint Josh - for the Spanish Notch - heat sink the main part of the blade and with a pencil flame bring the notch area to at least a blue - it will help a lot in doing what needs to be done!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 01, 2010, 12:14:47 AM
What a gorgeous piece of art ... it is so pretty that I almost hate to wear it ...

Now I think I know how the Sikh felt when he pulled his knife and had to cut himself a little ... cause the knife had to 'taste' blood every time it was drawn .... out of respect for the knife and its workmanship ...

BTW, I will be sending you a PM ... got 'nother idea ... (I know, OH, NO, he's got another idea!)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: The Elderly Kid on April 01, 2010, 07:15:30 PM
I've been following this thread with deep interest because I love edged weaponry. But it got me to thinking - did the old smiths have anything like this sort of gadgetry, or did they just do it all by hand and eye? Crafts in the old days were learned by apprenticeship, meaning that by the time a young man became a master craftsman he had been spending around 20 years doing nothing but make knives or whatever. Now, I know that we tend to over-romanticize the good old days. I've inspected many museum-display knives and swords and there are usually numerous flaws readily visible - misalligned rivets, uneven fullers, crooks in the blade, etc. It's just the limitations of hand work. In any case, great work! And don't feel too bad about the flaw in that first blade. I've seen the same thing in Japanese blades made by master smiths. It's just an unavoidable hazard when layering different qualities of steel in a forge.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 01, 2010, 07:34:57 PM
Elderly Kid,

In 'The Pirates of Penzance' (first played in 1879 so generic to our period; I checked LOL) one pirate remarks about the matronly and mature Ruth,

'There are the remains of a fine woman about her'.

So I think of the Belduque attempt #1; there is also the 'fine remains' of a boning knife (for fishing) or a great sandwich knife ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 02, 2010, 12:41:10 AM
I think there is plenty of apprenticeship still going on ... still a lot of stinkers to be made before one starts making beautiful pieces such as this.

And,  truth be told, I would imagine that there are a lot of masters around to give help ... only now the 'help' arrives by email ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 02, 2010, 09:35:08 AM
Thanks Yall fer participatin and commentin,  It sure is appreciated.

Chuck, I had not even thought of drawing back the notch but it is a GREAT idea and would've made things much easier on me, LOL.

EK-   WWE hit the nail on the head.  Much of knifemakers work can be figured out pretty easily from reading, videos, and talking with experienced makers.   But many things also benefit from one on one instruction and most makers will invite a newbie into their shop for a lesson on X Y Z  technique or whatever.  And so, in the same sort of apprenticship way knowledge and experience get passed from the old to the young

We've got alotta ground to cover here Pards so let's get at it  ;D

Here we've got the bevels hand sanded and are working on sanding the clip.  Take note of the felt padding used under the blade to protect our new hand sanded finish from errant scratches.  From here on out we need to be very carefull about not marring the finish on the blade in anyway.   I am sanding the clip with the paper hard backed.  It wont cut as well, fast, or last as long as with a slightly soft sanding block (cork) but it also won't washout the grindline on the clip.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque061.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 02, 2010, 09:47:47 AM
Finished up the handsanding and moving on to etching my makers mark on the blade.  With this knife I chose the smallest stencil I had in hopes of keeping the mark a small detail and allowing the damascus to be the MAIN attraction.

Here we are ready to begin etching with the stencil Scotch taped to the blade, the ground wire connected to the tang, a Q-tip on the positive wire, and our bowl of etchant solution.  This is a homemade machine built with plans from the internet and the solution is also homemade (Tbsp. Salt,  Tbsp. Vinegar, 1/2 cup water)

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque065.jpg)

Here it is after 4 trips over the stencil etching with 20 volts DC and 3 trips blackening the mark on 20 volts AC.  Pretty ugly huh.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque066.jpg)


Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 02, 2010, 09:56:53 AM
And here we are after a minute of cleanup on the sandpaper.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque067.jpg)

Now because this is damascus and needs to be etched in Ferric Chloride and we want to preserve the makers mark we worked so hard to get we need to fill the mark with fingernail polish to protect it from the etch.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque068.jpg)

Now we let the polish dry fully before sanding with a hard backing one more time to remove the polish from the flats of the blade while leaving the mark filled.  Now we move on to cleaning the blade with alcohol and etching in the ferric. Here are some random shots of the etched blade.


(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque072.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque073.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque074.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque075.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 02, 2010, 10:21:49 AM
We've come a long way here Pards and we've got the heart of the Belduque pretty much completed.  The next step is to attatch the bolsters to the blade which is a "make or break"  "pivotal" and very important step.   There are about a hundred ways to screw this up and set our progress back in any number of ways.

Here I've got my bolsters intalled on the blade and cut the pins of and ground them to the correct length.   1/2 the diameter of the pin sticking out on both sides is what we're looking for, or 1/16" in this case.  Any longer than that and there is a big risk that the pin will bend over to the side instead of expanding in diameter like we want.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque077.jpg)

Here I have "Upset" the pins.  This is hitting the pin with the flat side of the hammer to expand the pin to fill the hole in the bolster.   I should note that I did taper ream the bolsters before this process.    When upsetting be gentle at first getting the pin to expand on both sides flipping from side to side.   


(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque078.jpg)

Now that I've got the pins set-up it's time to switch to a 28 ounce smooth faced framing hammer to really hit the pins with the force needed to suck the bolsters down tight to the blade.

Of course this being my first time working with German Silver I ran into a problem I didn't expect.  The pin expanded so tight in the hole that it actually bulged the sides of the bolsters out a little but this leads me to believe that once finished out the pins will be invisible, which is the goal.  This is going to cause me a little clean up work but it's not a game changer for us and we will proceed without moving backwards  ;D

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque079.jpg)

Taht's all fer now Pards but check back again soon  ;)  Josh

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Shotgun Steve on April 02, 2010, 11:03:38 AM
Thanks Josh thats pretty dang interesting to watch. That knife is sure going
to be a beauty!! It isn't even mine and I am drooling on the keyboards as the work
progresses.

 Shotgun
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 02, 2010, 05:37:32 PM
Steve,

You are so right about how gorgeous this knife already is, much less what it is yet to be ....

I sent Josh a PM that I now know exactly how they felt in the movie "Wayne's World" when they genuflected and intoned 'We are not worthy" ... Iam not worthy of this knife!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 02, 2010, 10:58:31 PM
Glad some folks are enjoying this thread  ;D

Moving on you'll see in this pic that I've begun shaping the bolsters at 220 grit and moved on to correcting the slight bulge that's in the face of the bolster.  I very carefully cut the bulge down with a file trying not to put any extra unwanted scratches in the pretty finish I had on the bolster face.  From there I finished it off by hand sanding with 320 then 500 grits on a hard backing

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque085.jpg)

Problem solved  ;)

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque086.jpg)

Here I've pinned the scales on, traced the bolster on the front of the scales and pre-shaped the very front edge of the wood where it'll meet the bolsters to prepare for glue up.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque087.jpg)




Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 02, 2010, 11:11:19 PM
Prepping all the surfaces to be epoxied by scoring with 60 grit paper.  

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque088.jpg)

Here we are ready for glue up with tang and scales prepped and cleaned with alcohol, a cup with our epoxy, another cup with alcohol for clean up post clamping along with some paper towels for bulk clean up and q-tips for detailed clean up.  It's ESSENTIAL to get every bit of epoxy off the outside of the handle once the scales are clamped up.  Any residue on the wood will act as a resist to the stain that will be applied later and you'll end up with a pretty white spot on your handle.  The only cure for that is to sand away enough wood to remove all the epoxy and dye the handle again so we want to avoid that.  This is the big reason I stay away from super glue for handles because it will actually penetrate deeply into the wood and then you've got real problems.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque089.jpg)

Here we've got it epoxied and clamped up with two allignment pins in place which I remove once it's securely clamped up.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque090.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 02, 2010, 11:24:32 PM
Some makers will epoxy the entire works, pins and all, at one time.  I do it like this for a couple reasons.  1. The most common pin error is overheating the pin while shaping the handle and scortching a ring around the pin.  This way I've got my handle 95 % shaped when I put the pins in so very little grinding needs to be done to the pins which reduces the risk of over heating.  2. I like to pein my pins so I dont want dried epoxy between the pin and the wood prefering to use a very tiny dab on the pin when putting it in and peening immediatly to prevent that from happening.

Here I've begun shaping the handle on a 220 slack belt

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque093.jpg)

Here I've marked out the high spots I need to cut down in hand shaping this area of the handle

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque094.jpg)

Here I've removed the bulk of the wood and defined the shape of the handle I'm looking for in this area with a Simmonds black diamond file. This perticular file has a mean cut and works great for rough shaping wood.


(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque095.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 02, 2010, 11:47:29 PM
Now that we're colse enough on our handle shape to do the pinning we've got tor run our drill bit through all the holes to clean out the epoxy that squeezes into the holes

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque097.jpg)

Here I've got the first pin in, cut to length, and ready to be upset.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque099.jpg)

Pinning handle material is a quite different animal from pinning bolsters.  With handles FINESSE  is very important and in all operations we'll go slowly with light hammer blows.  If we upset these pins like the bolster pins it would literally split the wood right in two so great care must be taken.  Here's #1 upset

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque100.jpg)

Then peened

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque101.jpg)

A bunch more just like that.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque102.jpg)

And a little clean up on the grinder.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque103.jpg)


Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 02, 2010, 11:58:32 PM
Sketched on the main scrolls of the silver wire inlay

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque104.jpg)

Here are the basic tools to do the inlay. Chisels, homemade from exacto knives.  Modified tack hammer. Wire. Pattern. And missing from the pic but frequently used is a small pair of diagonal cutters.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque105.jpg)

These next pics show how the chisels are used being pushed straight down into the wood.  You'll notice that as the scroll rolls around the curved surface of the handle the chisel cuts stay perpenducular to the surface of the wood.  We're not removing any wood here, just sperating the fibers of the wood to creat a channel for the wire to go in.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque106.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque107.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque108.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 03, 2010, 12:12:53 AM
Now that our main scroll is cut in we've got to prep the wire for installation.  I'm doing about 3 feet or so at a time.  In this pic you can see that I've got the wire clamped to the edge of my bench and I've got a small sanding drum in the flex shaft of the Dremel tool.  This is what I use to sharpen the bottom edge of the wire.  After that I squeese the wire tightly in between some 60 grit paper to score the sides of the wire allowing the wood to get a better grip on the wire once it's grain is swelled back tight against the wire.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque109.jpg)

The next series of pics is pretty self explanitory.  Begin on one end and start tapping the wire into the channel and work your way to the other end.  There is a pic of the wire folding over, This is bad but does happen and when it does we've got to straighten it back up which is called "justifying the line".  This is dead soft wire and it is kinda a pain to work with IMHO.  I do know many folks who use dead soft wire but I can tell already that I prefer working with half hardened wire.  I'm thinking that it may be beneficial if my chisels were a touch wider with this soft wire but we're gonna tredge on and see how we come out.


(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque110.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque111.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque112.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque113.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque114.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque115.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque116.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 03, 2010, 09:04:06 PM
Hey Pards,

I finished the wire on this side of the handle today and got 20 some more pics of the process which I'll be posting later on tonight. 

I am curious how much interest there is in this process itself ?   I'm happy to post all the pics with detailed explainations of whats going on but I think You've got the jist of the process thus far. 

So let me know what you think  All out ?  Or summary ?  Of the rest of the wire work ?

Thanks fer followin along and participatin Pards,  Thats what makes it worth while.

Here's one teaser shot,

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque140.jpg)


-Josh   ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: River City John on April 03, 2010, 09:37:58 PM
Josh,
as a lurker, I am fascinated in the process. I would appreciate your tutorial no matter what. Even the most unskilled, such as I, gain encouragement by example such as yours.
River City John ;)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Messerist on April 03, 2010, 09:39:56 PM
Impressed is too poor a word for my perception of your work.  What a privilege it is to observe the creation of this blade. :)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 03, 2010, 09:49:17 PM
Messerist and River City John pretty much said it all ...

I just took that 'teaser pic' and sent it to my 'boss' at the Sacramento Museum and to my assigned mentor ... they have listened to me verbally drool about this knife for so long that, now that it is really taking shape, they can appreciate what I am talking about....

And when I have the Botas to put the Belduque in, I promise to replace my profile pic with one in the California kit  ...

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Will Ketchum on April 03, 2010, 10:23:11 PM
Josh, very nice.  I have enjoyed watching your progress with this knife,  I am amazed with your skills.

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 03, 2010, 10:49:25 PM
Allrighty Pards,

Seems like we've got a captive audience so we'll go all out  ;)

Sometimes when you run one wire right up along side of another just a tiny bit of the top of the second wire will peen down on top of wire #1.   This happens alot an is actually a good thing because that seems to mean you've got them nice and tight together with no space or wood slivers in between.  Mostly this can be left till the wire is completed and cut down flat at the end.  Depending on where I'm at with my pattern and if any other wires will be in that area sometimes I'll zip it across a 220 belt to clean things up as I'm progressing.   This sure is an ugly process right up till the end LOL.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque120.jpg)

This scroll is small enough to get a good close-up of the channel ready for the wire,  the wire put in and ready to be snipped, and snipping the wire with the dikes.  You'll see in the 3rd pic that the end of the wire is snipped at an angle where it ends at a pin.  This makes it easier to direct that last little bit right up against the pin but more importantly allows just a little room for expansion from temp change so the wire doesn't buckle up in the future.


(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque121.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque122.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque123.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 03, 2010, 11:02:41 PM
Many times when the end of the wire is near an area where it has to go over a curve in the wood shape it will pop back up on the end that you began with and need to be put back down.   When this happens you've got to work the wire so it forms to the curve of the wood.  If thick enough a couple swats toward the end will sink it but it will be under tension to pop back out on one end or the other so it needs to be "worked" to shape going slowly towards the end with many light taps.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque127.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque129.jpg)

At this stage I really started thinking the design was just a little too busy.  And I didn't really like that the pattern on the butt end reminded me of the Nike Swoosh, LOL.  So I compared with my original pattern and made some changes to un-clutter things just a little and improve the flow.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque131.jpg)

Here I've penciled the changes directly on the handle

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque132.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 03, 2010, 11:13:25 PM
When doing wire work I like to leave my handle big enough that I'm good to skim a few thousandths off the entire surface to level everything out when done but this area I decided was still just a bit too thick so I marked out the area to be cut down with the file prior to installing the scroll.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque133.jpg)

Here she is cut down and ready to redraw and install the wire.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque134.jpg)

This is one of those make or break ya moments that causes ya to sweat bullets.  You should be able to see that my chisle broke off while cutting the scroll.  Digging out a piece of the chisel without mangling up the surrounding wood can be a chore.  I worked on this piece for a good 20 minutes to get it out LUCKILY without damage.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque136.jpg)

I tried several different exacto blades and one of the other chisels trying to get it out with no luck before tying out one of my scrimshaw tools that won the battle.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque135.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 03, 2010, 11:27:48 PM
Now I'm down a chisel  >:(  And the most important one, the skinniest  :'(  Whatever will I do ????   Have to make another'n  I reckon  ;D

You've got to take it easy grinding on these blades because they are heat treated and any overheating will temper them to the point of being too soft to be any good so you've got to go SLOW and dunk it in water every couple seconds or so.  Otherwise it's no problem.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque137.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque138.jpg)

Now that I've got the wire done on this side I went ahead and gave it the first soaking of what I believe you Pards may call Vinegaroon.  2 OOOO steel wool pads disolved into a quart of white vinegar.   Although I screwed up the recipe I did learn it's use from our very own Chuck Burrows,  Thanks for that tip Chuck !  ;D    In laymans terms this stuff reacts with the wood to assist in bringing out the natural chatoyance of the curly maple.  My purpose right now is just to swell the grain of the wood to tighten it up on the wire.  I will do this 3 or 4 more times before all is said and done but this is good for now.  It's also worth noting that this concotion will etch or stain the steel so I soak it down good and be sure to wipe the steel dry !


(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque139.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Dave Cole on April 03, 2010, 11:31:28 PM
It's coming along nicely there, bud. Your also doing a great job on the WIP.The cool thing about WIP's is you will encourage some to make knives and discourage others from making knives, but the collectors see what trials and tribulations we makers have to go through to get the knife out.Talk with ya later bud.Dave ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 03, 2010, 11:37:44 PM
Now it's time for the magic to happen,  LOL

Transferring our wire pattern from the completed side to the other side.

We start with taping a piece of tracing paper to our completed side and tracing the wire with a pencil.  I also put a dot in the center of each pin to verify allignment on side #2

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque141.jpg)

Now we pull the pattern and tape it to the other side.  You'll note that the pencil side of the tracing paper is now against the wood.  Get it taped in place then trace over the pattern with a ball point ink pen to complete the tranfer.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque142.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque143.jpg)


Now although the carbon from the pencil tranferred to the handle we still need to re-draw the pattern on the wood and make any minor adjustments needed

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque144.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 03, 2010, 11:46:55 PM
That's all for tonights installment Pards  ;D

That also pretty much covers the silver wire inlay until both sides are completed and we move on to the finishing stages of the handle.  Tomorrow will be more of the same installing the wire on side #2 but I'll have my camera handy just in case I run into anything interesting during the install  ;)

Thanks again fer followin along Pards and please feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Dave,  I sure hope nobody get's discouraged, LOL.   I always enjoy others wip's so I picked this one as it encompases such a variety of techniques to show.   It's alotta work but folks sure seem to be enjoying it which makes it all worth while to me  ;D

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on April 03, 2010, 11:59:35 PM
I ain't got the words man,that is fantastic!!!!!!! :) :) :) Josh thanks alot for lettin us watch...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Curley Cole on April 04, 2010, 12:28:17 AM
STUFF LIKE THAT JUST KNOCKS MY SOCKS OFF....
(typed that in caps just to let you know how entusatic I was about that...)

makes me want to bang my hands against the desk. (they were never great at the close work, but now they are damn near useless for even most tasks.

but my hat is off to ya. that is lookin beautiful.
thanks for the step by step.

curley
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 04, 2010, 12:35:39 AM
Josh,

I think Dave Cole hit it on the nail about these WIPs ... it separates the 'Hey, I think I could do that' from the 'There is no way in hell that I would even try that' ... I always felt I was in the latter category ... and after seeing this I am for certain that I am better having this piece of art done ...

But even us 'No way in hell'-ers get to see what needs to be done and understand the value placed in each piece of work .... instead of just buying something existing off a shelf, we get to know just how much work is involved in doing this ....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Messerist on April 04, 2010, 08:08:29 PM
I'm lovin' this thread!  Just a comment on staining curly maple.  I use it a lot on my knives.  I use "Aqua Fortis" to stain the maple.  It is similar to Vinegaroon but instead of vinegear I use nitric acid to dissolve the steel wool.  After applying the aqua fortis the wood appears to be green.  I then use a heat gun to change the color to rich red and bring out the curl.  An application of water and baking soda neutralizes the acid.  After drying I use 0000 steel wool and boiled linseed oil to finish the wood.  I have never used it on an inlaid handle so I do not know what would happen when the aqua fortis meets silver.  I just thought I'd share how I do it.  Once again, this is an addictive thread and I can't wait to see the finished work.
(http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt204/messerist/knivesandbaby009.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 04, 2010, 08:53:06 PM
Messerist,

Thats a great lookin finish Pard.  A couple hours to late for this'n   LOL  but we'll get to that soon.  I have heard of your treatment but haven't experimented with it personally yet.   I'm actually using a similar process though so we'll have to see how she comes out  ;D.

One thing I forgot to mention about the wire is how to get the nice taper on the end of the wire.  This is accomplished very simply by "cold forging"  the end of the wire prior to starting.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque146.jpg)

Here's side #2 done and cleaned up a little.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque147.jpg)

Getting prepped for some wood treatments with the Vinegaroon, and some dark brown Fieblings Pro Oil Dye

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque151.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 04, 2010, 09:02:55 PM
Here we're really soaking the wood down good with the Vinegaroon and hitting it with the heat gun.  My purpose here with the heat gun is to swell the grain as tight as I can get it.  I did this process 3 times the left it wet the 4 run.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque149.jpg)

Here she is wet with V and ready for the dye.  I like to dye the wood wet because the wetness will assist in wicking the dye into the wood.  Next shot soaked with dye.  And left to dry.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque150.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque152.jpg)

I do of course clean the dye off the bolsters and tang while it's still wet  ;D  Dang, still looks like crud, LOL
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque153.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque154.jpg)

I really didn't need to dye the wood quite yet but  it's a great way to easily find any low spots in your wood when doing the final shaping and finishing of the handle.



Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 04, 2010, 09:12:35 PM
While the handle is drying back out we're gonna move on to some work on the bolsters.

I'm going to use this diamond bit to grind out the tang where the filework will be.  Before begining I cut a line in with a diamond triangle file so I'v got a groove for the bit to ride in.  My diamond bit is a smaller diameter than the filework so I've got to freehand it a bit to get the tang right.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque155.jpg)

Here we got it roughed in fairly close to where we need to be. 
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque157.jpg)

Getting a layout measurement to tranfer the center of the cutout to the top of the bolster to keep my cut going straight.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque158.jpg)

Mark tranferred and my cut line drawn on.  I just freehand this but a piece of tape could easily be used to get a straight line over a curved surface like this.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque159.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 04, 2010, 09:23:14 PM
Cut a nice straight guide line in with the triangle file.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque160.jpg)

Now I go to the round file and "chase" the line across the bolster going forward little by little as the cut gets deeper.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque160.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque162.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque163.jpg)

Now I move on to rounding the inside corners of the groove
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque164.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque165.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 04, 2010, 09:35:26 PM
Same thing for the other side to complete this part of the file work.

Here I've layed out where I want my other decorative suts to be made.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque168.jpg)

Here I'll be starting the cut with a triangle needle file the switching to the regular size triangle once I've got a nice starting cut to assist in staying on course.  Slipping and marring up the finish on the bolster flats creates more work in hand finishing the bolster so we try to avoid that if possible.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque169.jpg)

Now that I've got the filework finished I'm using this wire wheel in the Dremel to burnish the inside of the filework.  This leaves a kinda of Matte textured appearance to the filework that contrasts nicely with the flats.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque170.jpg)

Here we've got the flats hand sanded to 320 grit and all the corners gently "broken"  just enough so they wont be too hard on the fingers
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque171.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 04, 2010, 09:39:32 PM
Now I'm pretty much done with the bolsters other than cleaning up the flats a little more so I pulled all the tape so we could have a peek at how she's comming along.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque172.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque173.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque174.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 04, 2010, 09:48:32 PM
Now bare with me her Pards 'cuz some of yall are gonna think I've gone and lost my marbles here but it's time to go back to the handle and do the final machine shaping of the handle followed by hand sanding areas we can get with the grinding belt.

This is something worth noting here.  Anytime your sanding and area where wood meets metal such as- Pins, Silverwire, Guard, Bolsters, etc.  you HAVE to sand with a hard backing on your paper to keep things even and flush.

On Baby Duty.  be back a bit later LOL,  Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 04, 2010, 09:49:55 PM
What a nice Easter Gift!

I just came back from dinner with friends and this work is waiting for me ...

Thank you so much for a very special Easter gift!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP/Damascus Blades
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 04, 2010, 10:36:26 PM
Hi,

I was doing a search for Damascus steel and ran into this page ... about 10% was above my head, but still worth the read ...

http://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/def_en/kap_5/advanced/t5_1_1.html

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 04, 2010, 10:42:50 PM
Ok, Back to it, LOL

What happens is the wood will cut away MUCH faster than the metal leaving an un-even or wavvy surface instead of a flat smooth one.  Even on the grinder this will happen a slow speeds with a clogged belt so to flatten everything out I clean my belt and make a couple passes with medium pressure to get a nice agressive cut, albeit at 220 grit.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque175.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque176.jpg)

At this time I'm now getting everything evened up from side to side to end up with a nice symetrical handle
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque177.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque178.jpg)

I'm missing some pics I thought I took of thia part.  Here is one where I've pencil marked where I need to cut this side to so it matches the opposite side.  From there I hand sanded this area on both sides to finish them up.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque179.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 04, 2010, 10:54:47 PM
At this point I'm not really worried about getting a more refined finish on the handle.  From here I re-wet with the Vinegaroon then dyed and cleaned again and let it sit till the surface was dry to the touch then covered the entire handle with a mix of 70% Birchwwod Casey Tru-oil gunstock finish and 30% mineral spirits.   

This coat is put on very heavy until the suface of the wood stays wet with oil which allows the wood to soak up as much of the oil as possible.  It is left to dry like this even though we'll be doing more sanding to refine the suface of the wood and will basically be sanding back down to the wood.  At this point the main goal is just the penetration of the oil to fill the pores of the wood so we can refine the surface to what will hopefully end up being a glass smooth handle with a beautiful finish that highlights the curl of the wood and has an almost 3-D effect.

Here's a couple shots of her wet with oil
 (http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque180.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque181.jpg)


Thanks agin for following alon Pards   ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on April 05, 2010, 10:43:33 AM
WOW! WOW! WOW!


One thing I haven't noticed (or maybe it just slipped by me because I was overcome with how pretty this is) is any specific steps to 'balance' the blade. How is that accomplished? Is that even applicable since this isn't a throwing knife?
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 05, 2010, 11:42:49 AM
kflach,

Thats a very good question, and one that may requre a lengthy answer LOL.

Balance is VERY important to the feel of a knife, especially one this big.   Believe it or not balance has a much larger effect on how the knife feels in the hand and performs than the actual weight of the knife. 

For instance, a heavy knife thats well balanced will feel "light and fast" in the hand, while a light knife balanced too far forward will feel awkward with little control.

Balancing the knife is something that to a large degree is controllable by the maker of the knife.  For example 2 full tang  8" bowie knives with the same profile. 

Knife #1  Is ground with a full length distal taper (taper in the width towards the tip)   Which allows the maker to "adjust" how much weight he's taking off the front of the blade and moving the balance rearward.   Now he can also taper the tang to do the opposite and move the point of balance forward.  Many times additional holes are drilled in the tang to also remove weight to affect the balance point.   With these combinations there is alot of ability to balance the knife the way you want.   Say for this example that this knife balances right at the guard.  It's gonna be light and fast in the hand and make a great Fighting Bowie that will perform ok in tougher chopping "machete" type tasks.

Knife #2 has no taper and a short hollow grind and a tapered tang.  This knife is going to balance a good distance in front of the guard and feel slower and clunky compared to #1 but will excell at chopping and heavy "camp chore" type tasks due to the extra leverage applied to the cutting edge toward the front of the blade.

Learning how to get the balance you desire is to a large degree figured out from experience and is not an exact science as many factors come into play.  Here are some other factors that will also affect the balance of the knife.

What is the handle material
Is there a rear bolster
Is there a lanyard tube or hole
how many pins, what size, and where on the handle are they placed
Full tang, hidden tang, or framed handle
Size (or more importantly weight)of guard or bolsters

Balance is ALWAYS applicable.  I think many makers just make the knife and it comes out how it comes out and through experience and/or luck they come up with something usefull for the intended tasks of the knife or perhaps not, LOL.

I will however also add that many factors come into play in the design, construction, and end functionality of a knife. Cross section of the blade, thickness of the blade at the edge, angle and quality of sharpening, type of grind, shape of the blade for the intended tasks are all factors that are all equally important and need to work together to creat a really outstanding knife.

As to how this all applies to the Belduque,  I like tapering my tangs from a design standpoint but decided not to on this blade due to the effect it would have on the balance and now I'm glad I didn't.   I did put a distal taper on her but only from the start of the clip forward. She balances right at the front of the bolsters which makes her light and fast feeling but should also perform admirably at chopping tasks due to the thinness of the blade on the edge.  To me this is a good compromise for a knife that would've most likely been the owners all purpose cutting, slicing, butchering, chopping, self defense weapon, and tool of choice for pretty much everything.

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 05, 2010, 11:53:31 AM
It's also worth noting that with this knife the design of the handle also comes into play.

The size of the wood is just about hand sized so when swinging the blade for chopping, fighting or slashing the balance point is about 3/4" in front of the hand which gives a little forward leverage.

But when "choking up" on the handle over the bolster and using a chef style pinch grip the balance point is now right  between the first and middle finger offering a great deal of control and precision like would be needed when skinning game or eating.

I think thats about it, LOL   ;D

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on April 05, 2010, 12:19:10 PM
Thanks Josh, that's exactly the info I was looking for!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on April 05, 2010, 02:35:53 PM
Josh, would fully sharpening the top of the clip and maybe 1/3-1/2 of the remainder of the blade behind the clip significantly lighten the front enough to make the knife more "agile"?
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 05, 2010, 05:18:19 PM
Forty Rod,

It would have an affect on balance but probably not that significant.  The closer to the point of balance that changes are made have less affect. 

Now going from no clip at all to a clip half the blade length will have a big impact on the balance point.

Another factor is how thick the blade steel is to begin with. 

Say for example your knife is 1/4" on the spine then your removing quite a bit of steel to get a sharpenable clip.  Where-as if the blade is an 1/8"  not much steel has to be removed to make it sharpenable. 

It would seem that it would be a direct ratio meaning the 1/8" blade is lighter so it would still have the same effect on balance but that's not really the case because  to get the thick blade thin enough much more steel has to be removed.


Now if we're talking about a false clip then it's mostly just a factor of where the maker wants the grind line for appearance reasons.


Hope that didn't just confuse things further,  LOL   Josh ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 05, 2010, 05:34:33 PM
klach& Forty Rod,

Thank you for putting into words questions that I did not even know I wanted to find out  ... *S*

Josh,

Thank you for clearing this up for me ... now, if someone asks me one of these questions while I am being a docent, I can quote like I actually understand ... LOL.

TTFN,
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 05, 2010, 07:23:11 PM
Howdy Pards,

Anybody like Carved sheaths ? ? ? ? ?

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 05, 2010, 08:04:41 PM
This is gonna be the last handle pic for awhile as I'll be waiting to do all of the FINAL finish work on the knife until the sheath is completed.

I didn't get any pics of the process that got us from there to here but it's really a very simple one that only needs explanation to understand.

Starting with a dryed slurry coat of my Tru-oil mix I steel wooled it down to a OOOO finish.  Inevitably doing this will wear through the stain just a touch on the "corners" of the wood.   To solve this problem I dip a Q-tip in Pro-Oil dye and touch up the little bit that's worn through then blend it back with the steel wool. 

What we're doing here is basically leaving the curl the darkest and lightening the rest of the wood.  This is done till the color suits my taste and we move on from there.

Now we will apply very light coats of the oil waiting about an hour between coats for drying.  I dunk my finger in the oil and massage it into the surface of the wood for a couple minutes then wipe off the excess with a paper towel.

Through the night last night and this morning I did this 5 times to get where we're at now.  Now I've burnished the surface of the wood with a piece of denim to smooth things up and end up with a hand buffed surface.  I will continue this process till I get the desired finish once I'm done with the sheath but here's what she looks like now.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque184.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 05, 2010, 08:22:16 PM
I'm flummoxed ... half Irish and out of superlatives ... what a gorgeous finish!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 05, 2010, 08:31:18 PM
This sheath is gonna have alot of carving involved.....  maybe not what you've got in mind though,  LOL

WWE was a little concerned that the strap of his Botas would squeeze the sheath a bit too tightly and either crush the sheath or just squeeze it tightly enough to make drawing and inserting the blade a task instead of the joy that it should be.  In talking about how to adress this concern he had suggested a wood core sheath or a metal throat to reinforce the sheath on the top to prevent any issues.

We made the decision to go with the metal throat that will be constructed of German Silver to compliment the bolsters and wire work.  I figured it like this.   We're going all out with damascus and silver wire in creating the pride of the WWE knife collection and knife this durned fancy deserves a sheath to match so to keep with the theme of All Out why not do both and have a curly maple sheath with German Silver throat and toe  ;D

Pretty much everything on the sheath is a first for me so bare with me as I figure things out as I go  :-[    I do have a game plan for everything that needs to be done so we'll see how it goes Pards.

WWE and had discussed all the details of the sheath except the matching curly maple body,  SURPRIZE buddy !

WWE, I sure hope you like the idea pard,  If'n not we could still go with leather and turn this one into kindlin,  LOL
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 05, 2010, 08:59:49 PM
Let's git this sheath'n party started with pickin us out a piece of maple for our body. I've trace the area I want to cut and marked where I'm going to drill allignment pin holes.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque185.jpg)

I've drilled the holes, split the board in 2 and cut it out on the bandsaw.   If I had the correct woodworking tools I would've split the board on the bansaw and planed the cut sides and put the board back together the way it came apart but sometimes you hafta make due with what you've got so I went this route of splitting the board and flipping the pieces flat to flat making the cut sides the outside of the sheath body.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque188.jpg)

This is how she's gonna fit together to become the Belduques sheath
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque189.jpg)


Here I've traced where the blade will go on the inside of one of the halves and marked roughly where I'll be carving out the wood for the blade to fit into
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque190.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 05, 2010, 09:05:11 PM
Josh,

It is uncanny how you read my mind ... I had just sent you an email telling you that I trusted whatever you wanted to do ... but (not in the email) I had always thought that a sheath similar to the rifleman's knife of the 1815-1850 (i.e Mexican War) would work just fine ... and they had wooden sheaths ...

I also thought that the Searles Bowie was very similar in size and shape ... and that the sheath made for it would work well ...

(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/WaddWatsonEllis/SearlesBowieKnife.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 05, 2010, 09:10:00 PM
Here I'm cutting my outline in with the utility knife so when I'm chiseling out the inside I dont create any cracks that go outside of the area for the blade.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque191.jpg)

Now I've got my "safety cut" done and I'm going back over it with a wider deeper cut just to begin getting this wood out of the way.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque192.jpg)

I thought I'd throw up a pic of my small wheel attachment to help everone understand exactly what that is.  It's on the right side here and I ended up having to pull the 10" contact wheel from the other side to get full use of the small wheel, which is a 3/4"
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque195.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 05, 2010, 09:26:09 PM
This pic is actually the second side I did but I wanted to show exactly how I used the small wheel and the pics of the first side weren't the greatest but this one is better.  I colored it some with a sharpie to really make the tiny hollow grinds show in the pic but for no other reason  ;)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque207.jpg)

From there I smoothed up the interior also with the small wheel leaving only the outside ridges where the small wheel won't reach to still be dealt with
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque196.jpg)

The heavy lifting of removing the outside ridges was done with a 1/4 chisel and hammer
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque197.jpg)

Going over everything to remove all the high spots and clean out the corners with this carving chisel
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque198.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 05, 2010, 09:35:01 PM
Again we're going to perform a little magic trick to transfer our carved side to side #2 so we'll end up with matching cut-out's for our blade to sit in.

Here you can see that I've loaded side #1 with a tiny line of carpenters chalk that is normally used in a chalk line, or chalk box.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque199.jpg)

Now I carefully assembled the sheath with the allignment pins in place and spring clamps holding the works tightly together then blew a bunch of air into the sheath from this can of compressed air.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque200.jpg)

Voila,  Now we've got a faint tracing on side #2 that I went over with my fine point sharpie for a more permanent mark to work with.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque202.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 05, 2010, 09:41:48 PM
A bunch of grinding, carving, and chiseling later we are here,  ready for our first test fit.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque203.jpg)

Of course we dont want the Belduque to be riding in a bare wood interior so I've cut 2 pieces of pigskin lining leather to line the inside of the sheath with.  Here we start to get a "feel" of how our fit is and it's still a bit tight up toward the spine
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque209.jpg)

Back to the small wheel
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque210.jpg)

And back to the carving chisel
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque211.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 05, 2010, 09:49:14 PM
Test fit #2,  Getting close now  ;D
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque212.jpg)

You can see here that on this test fit the leather is overlapping the sheath and is sandwitched between the 2 sides.  Although our fit is good now the wood is going to be tighter together when the leather is out of the way so it's time to fit the lining into the sheath body.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque213.jpg)

Here I've cut the top side of the leather to fit into the sheath and used a pen to trace the edge side pushing the pen into the corner as I went.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque214.jpg)

Side 1 fit up and ready to glue up with contact cement.  I cover both sides with the cement then let them tack up and stick them together and rub them down real good.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque215.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 05, 2010, 10:00:17 PM
Here I've marked and hollowed out this area of the wood to help guide the blade into the sheath.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque217.jpg)

I fit up and cemented lining #2 in place and quickly did test fit # 3 which surprize, was a failure, LOL.  Too tight.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque218.jpg)

I had to peel side 2 off and repeat the small wheel and chisel routine one last time then put the lining back in temporarily for test fit #4,  LOL  which was finally successful  ;D

Having already cemented and removed lining #2 I just didn't have full confidence that I would get a good bond on the leather so I made a new liner and cemented it in place.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque219.jpg)


This is where we currently are with opperation Belduque Sheath.   

Stay tuned in fer more knifemaking trials and tribulations with the Belduque  Pards

-Josh  ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Dave Cole on April 06, 2010, 12:05:16 AM
Looking great bud.Dave ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 06, 2010, 08:10:02 PM
Here we are back to working on the Belduque's Sheath.

I'm using the small wheel  here to hog off some wood before gluing up the sheath.  I'm using this just because it's what I had on there from yesterday, LOL,  but the contact wheels do take a more agressive bite than the flat platen or slack belt so it's really ideal for what I'm doing here, which is just getting rid of bulk and thinning the sides to a more workable thickness.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque220.jpg)

Here I'm using the slack portion of the belt to even things up a little. 
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque221.jpg)

Now we're thinned out a bit and ready to assemble our sheath.  You can tell that I'm not yet thin enough to worry about the rough and slightly scorched 36 grit surfaces.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque222.jpg)

Just getting everything prepped for glue-up.  Got my sheath parts, allignment pins, glue, spring clamps, paper towels, and a couple scraps of leather to pad the vice jaws handy.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque224.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 06, 2010, 08:21:02 PM
I always glue up both surfaces to be stuck together.  Not sure if it makes a difference but it makes me feel better  ;D
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque225.jpg)

I spread out the glue with my finger then wipe a small area on the inside perimeter clean of glue to help prevent glue from squeezing out into the inside of the sheath when clamped up.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque226.jpg)

Had I not done the previous step this much glue would be on the lining that I worked so hard to do  ;)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque227.jpg)

Can you really use too many clamps, LOL.  Probably a little overkill but hey,  you don't get a second chance to do it right.  Also you'll note that I put the blade in the sheath.  I do this for 2 reasons.  1. To make sure it still fits, as this will be the permanent size of the inside.  2.  If glue does squeeze out into the inside of the sheath the way to get it cleaned out is to put the knife in, pull it out wipe it off and repeat until it comes out clean.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque228.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 06, 2010, 08:37:47 PM
Josh,

As long as there are no metal pins,  a round over bit in a router will probably take most of the wood off the 'top' of the scabbard, and once the wood is angled down (if you plan to angle the scabbard sides down to the sharp side), a small (1/8" or 3/16") roundover bit could save you a lot of sanding ... wish I were on the right coast (for just this work); My router table wouel make short course of it ....

And as alwys, Josh, just beautiful!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 06, 2010, 08:39:18 PM
Now we've got ourselves a sheath Pards !    Now I've switched up the grinder to an 80 grit on the flat platen to begin tuning the shape of body.  My plan is to dome the front and keep the back fairly flat while rounding over the entire perimeter and putting a little taper on the bottom 3 inches or so.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque229.jpg)

Right now we have several goals.  remove all the 36 grit scrathches and begin setting up the shape we want.   By setting up I mean that we can encourage the slack belt to give the desired amount "dome" by sanding in facets down the length of the sheath so when hit it with the slack belt it'll sand all the points off those facets and give us the desired results.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque230.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque231.jpg)

Now we're ready to take off the platen and switch to a 220 grit belt to blend everything together
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque232.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque233.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 06, 2010, 08:51:28 PM
Josh,

Never mind my advice ... your eye trues it better than I could ever do in a machine ...(genuflecting and backing out of the room *S*),,,

U DA MAN!!!!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 06, 2010, 08:55:00 PM
WWE,

A router could very well work the edges in this application but it's really not a problem doing it on the grinder.  Running full tilt she's going a little over 3600 square belt feet per minute and it will literally just make this wood disappear if care is not taken with it, LOL.  

Now  we're working the shape on the slack belt.   The slack belt is kind of interesting because there is so much versatility depernding on how much tension you put on the belt.  I'm starting out with the belt real tight so it's got some give but with a light touch it can make a nearly flat grind.   Also grinding down in the middle of the area between the wheels will be pretty flexable but the closer you get to the top wheel the stiffer the belt will be.   This is nice if you want to thin down one spot you can go up high and make a couple passes then right back down to the middle to smooth things over.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque234.jpg)

Moving on I switch to a 400 grit belt and take all the tension off the belt.  With the belt this loose and running slow it won't dig in no matter how you put the wood to it.  It just smoothes everything over nice and neat without issues.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque236.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque237.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque238.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 06, 2010, 09:01:32 PM
WWE,

In this instance the router would be the begining of the shaping process and it would still need some hand work to finish it up, but if you had it set-up and handy it definately would give ya a quick start and get rid of some bulk in a hurry  ;D

Now we begin the first steps of the finishing process of soaking down with the vinegaroon and hitting it with the heat gun.  I did 3 rounds of this.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque239.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque240.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque241.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Gun Butcher on April 06, 2010, 09:07:55 PM
Love that last pic Josh. If the bic wasn't there that knife would look 5 ft long :o ::) ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 06, 2010, 09:09:05 PM
And we'll conclude todays festivities with a couple shots of the Belduque in it's new home,  which has been steel wooled with 0000 and is in the condition I want it to perform the metal work.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque242.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque243.jpg)

Thanks again to everyone who's followin along with Belduque and stick with us for the next steps,  making a German Silver throat and toe.   ;D

This should prove to be a learning experience for everyone,  myself included   ;D

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 07, 2010, 12:57:20 AM
Josh,

As usual, I am dumb to express the quality of your work!  

One of the Romantic Poets wrote;

'Great with child to speak,

And helpless in my woes ....'

So I sit ... I never thought it would happen, but I have simply run out of metaphors and adjectives!

I too sit in antsy anticipation of the next step....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 07, 2010, 11:10:07 PM
Well there's a bunch of different kins of pards out there.  Some obsess about being neat and organized while other like myself obsess over gittin some work done, LOL.  Cleaning never has been my strong suit but occasionally even I have to realize that there's just no room left on the bench to work so I thought I admit what a train wreck I can be and show a pic of the bench today before I actually CLEANED it up,  LOL.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque249.jpg)

Now that we got things straighteded out a little it's time to git to work on the sheath.  We've got some .020 German Silver sheet, some snips, and of course our sheath body.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque250.jpg)

Now I cut off a piece of silver  and begin thinking about how to make it look like a sheath  ;)  This is where I'm planning on putting the seam so we'll get started there.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque251.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 07, 2010, 11:19:36 PM
Here's the first attempt at forming the silver to the body.   I clamped it up with some spring clamps and started forming the edge down with my hammer, the same modified tack hammer used in doing the silver wire.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque253.jpg)

This method of clamping is definately NOT holding good enough so I moved on to holding it by hand to do the forming.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque255.jpg)

WOW,  This tuff is kinda springy !  Decided I need to pre-bend the last little bit close to the seam to help get started so I closed the vise enough to use it like a hand brake (tool for bending sheet metal)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque256.jpg)

Still trying different methods of clamping things down. here I'm hand bending to get some curve to the face of the sheet to match the dome on the body.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque257.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 07, 2010, 11:30:45 PM
Now I'm back to using the hammer to work the sheet on the corner of the bench which is woking MUCH better than the previous clamping attempts.
 (http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque258.jpg)

We're finally begining to see some progress with the first bend pretty close to where it needs to be.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque259.jpg)

Moving on to the opposite side I've hand bent the sheet around the body as tightly as possible and marked where I need to begin getting some more bend in the sheet.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque260.jpg)

Now I've got the sheet formed enough that I can no longer use the corner of the bench to do my forming so I clamped up a piece of 1/8 x 1 1/2 ATS-34 in the vise to use as an anvil.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque261.jpg)

This process involved thousands of quick light hammer blows to form the silver.  Things do get a little dinged up but we're not doing too bad thus far.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque262.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 07, 2010, 11:41:36 PM
More marking and more bending.  We're going slow here working the sheet a little, test fitting, marking , then working it with the hammer some more. 
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque263.jpg)

This is a good angle to show what I mean by marking where it needs to bend more.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque264.jpg)

Now we're getting there with making the bend around the second side.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque265.jpg)

Here we're ready to make the last bend to join back to the start and create our seem.  At this point I've got it clamped up enough to hand bend the sheet and start forming with the hammer just the way it is in the pic to get us close.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque266.jpg)

The next 2 shots show me squeezing the silver by hand to check out the "fit".  Then a pic of how much it springs back which is why the hammering is needed to form the silver so it stays the shape you want it without being under stress
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque267.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque268.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 07, 2010, 11:48:37 PM
I'm close enough now to mark and trim the sheet to lenght so it will butt into the other side.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque269.jpg)

Here I've marked out where I need to bend the edge some more to close up the gap on the other side
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque270.jpg)

Getting very close now.  Still have to work down the very end of the back side to form the seem
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque271.jpg)

Here's a shot of the outside and inside of the seem to get silver soldered together.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque272.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque273.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 07, 2010, 11:58:16 PM
Now for the fun part,  Soldering.... which is known to be a real bear at times and something I haven't done for a loooong time.
We've got the stuff though,  solder, flux, and anti-flux that is used to keep solder from sticking where you dont want it.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque274.jpg)

Here we are with attempt #1...  LOL
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque275.jpg)

Now I do know better and after seeing daylight through the seem before soldering I should've gone back to the ole drawing board and straightened up those edges before soldering but something was telling me...  This is some fairly thick solder maybe it'll work fine,  LOL.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque276.jpg)

One benefit though was that the solder held enough that I got the oppertunity to tune up the shape with the hammer with the silver right on the body which was a BIG help.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque277.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque278.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 08, 2010, 12:07:47 AM
Soldering... Take 2.  Looking a little better this time  ;D
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque280.jpg)

Cleaning things up a bit.  I'm not really trying to get a final finish here just cleaning things up before trying it on for size.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque281.jpg)

Hmmmmm.  Alittle too tight I guess.  She popped back open when I was tapping it onto the sheath body.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque282.jpg)

This time around I filed the inside edges straight to be certain to get a good joint.  I should have done that the first time around ! I did end up with a bit of a solder blob on the inside of the throat which I took care of with an 1/8" round file.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque283.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 08, 2010, 12:08:57 AM
Josh,

I have always casually joked that asians got their sense of patience from learning to eat with chopsticks at a very early age ...somewhat non politically correct to say, but possibly true.

Then again, they might have formed silver at an early age ... I would have thrown the whole project out by now and started looking at leather ... I have very little patience if something doesn't happen the first time ....

But breathtaking work!

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 08, 2010, 12:14:56 AM
Now I did some clean-up again. this time on a 220 grit slack belt so it's time to test fit once again.  
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque284.jpg)

And here we are finishing up the day with the first part of throat shaped and fit to the body, soldered and cleaned up a bit.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque285.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque286.jpg)

Operation THROAT will continue tomorrow as she still needs to have a cap made with a slot for the blade and soldered onto the piece I made today.

What do yall think so far ?

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 08, 2010, 12:25:30 AM
Josh,

Besides the breathtaking workmanship, I think you are pretty historically correct too ... I am reposting the Searles Bowie and sheath ... the one you are making could have been made 200 years ago ...

(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/WaddWatsonEllis/SearlesBowieKnife.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 08, 2010, 12:29:41 AM
Interesting information on Bowie Knives and 'Spanish knives' ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowie_knife
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 08, 2010, 12:44:22 AM
WWE,

Interesting read,  Thanks !

Yup,  I do believe this one could've walked right out of the past   ;D    LOL. 

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 08, 2010, 12:51:08 AM
Now all through my volunteering tomorrow, instead of thinking about what I am doing, I am going to be thinking about the next group of pics tomorrow night .... LOL
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on April 08, 2010, 10:39:53 AM
Forty Rod,

It would have an affect on balance but probably not that significant.  The closer to the point of balance that changes are made have less affect. 

Now going from no clip at all to a clip half the blade length will have a big impact on the balance point.

Another factor is how thick the blade steel is to begin with. 

Say for example your knife is 1/4" on the spine then your removing quite a bit of steel to get a sharpenable clip.  Where-as if the blade is an 1/8"  not much steel has to be removed to make it sharpenable. 

It would seem that it would be a direct ratio meaning the 1/8" blade is lighter so it would still have the same effect on balance but that's not really the case because  to get the thick blade thin enough much more steel has to be removed.


Now if we're talking about a false clip then it's mostly just a factor of where the maker wants the grind line for appearance reasons.


Hope that didn't just confuse things further,  LOL   Josh ;D

Well, you did, but I was born confused and have gone downhill steadily since.  :o   ;D 

Actually, that's exactly what I was hoping to hear.  I want the top sharpened, but like the balance where it is.  Thanks.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 08, 2010, 11:39:30 PM
Continuing on with our german silver throat today Pards I got started by tracing the collar on the top (1/8" Plate) and laying out the slot for the blade to slide through.  We want some extra wiggle room on the slot so we've got room to fit a tiny liner around the inside to protect the blade from scrathes.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque288.jpg)

Taking a measurement on the top and bottom of the slot to figure out what size drill bits to use for the ends of the slots.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque289.jpg)

I'm using a coping saw to hand cut out the inside of the slot.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque290.jpg)

Here we've got the slot cut and cleaned up with files and sitting on to of the sheath body to size up the slot.  Once I lined it up I traced around the bottom with a sharpie.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque295.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 08, 2010, 11:47:56 PM
Cut the top out on the bandsaw with plenty of extra so here's a couple shots of how it's gonna go together
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque298.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque299.jpg)

Here I've got my bolsters traced on the top of the throat and a piece of damascus left over from the blade billet.   You can see I've got some sharpie marks on the damascus to highlight where I'm gonna be removing material.  This piece is going to become our retention device that keeps the blade in the sheath until swung open.   I'm kinda of designing as I go here so bare with me as this takes shape.  The pics are going to do the best explaining with this part so it'll be easy to undestand as we get towards being finished.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque300.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque301.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 08, 2010, 11:54:53 PM
Here you can see how I'm using a MAPP gas torch to get a localized heat and get the steel to bend right where I need it too.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque302.jpg)

The first bending is forming a blacksmith curl on the end which I tightened up just a touch after this pic was taken
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque303.jpg)

This next set of pics is a series of heating, bending, checking, and repeating to get the desired shape.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque305.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque306.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque307.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque308.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque309.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque310.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque311.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque312.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 09, 2010, 12:03:11 AM
Here you can see that I've ground a little off the front side to get some clearance around the bolster and layed out where the pin will be that allows this to pivot out to allow removal of the blade.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque313.jpg)

This is a neat little trick.  Here I've made a transfer punch out of an 1/8" drill bit by sharpening to a shallow point on the shank. This allows me to line up the "gate" where I want it to be on the throat then slip the transfer punch in the hole and give it a gentle tap to get a perfectly placed center punch on the throat top.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque314.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 09, 2010, 12:11:28 AM
Josh,

All I was thinking of was a little leather retainer strap and a frog ... this if definitely over-the-top!

I love it!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 09, 2010, 12:12:49 AM
Now we've got both holes drilled and everything straightened up where we want it so we can see how this contraption is going to work.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque315.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque316.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque317.jpg)

When I had everything lined up exactly where I wanted it I scribed a line around the body so I could line it up in the same spot to solder the top onto the collar.  I also used a file to get the collar part dead flat to get as tight as a seem as possible for the solder to hold.   Here we are clamped up and ready to go.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque320.jpg)

Nice !
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque322.jpg)

NOT nice  :(  Enough heat bled through the collar to pop the entire seam open.  (Insert a bunch-o-cuss-words here !)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque323.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 09, 2010, 12:23:37 AM
It's not looking good but I figure I've still got one chance to get this sucker back together successfully.  This is the side that was open.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque324.jpg)

This is pretty ugly but there's nothing to lose now pards so might as well give it a go, LOL
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque326.jpg)

Due to over heating the thin edges of this seam several times and doing it really badly this final time I actually melted a little away from the edge which basically makes this part scrap.

When faced with a situation like this I'm the kinda guy who feels it a bit therapudic (sp) to throw some stuff around and grab the nearest hammer and make certain no more time is wasted trying to fix something that even if fixed would still be a sub-standard part,  LOL  ;D    As you'll notice I did give the throat a final tuning with the hammer.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque327.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 09, 2010, 12:29:21 AM
I feel much better now,  LOL   ;D

WWE dont worry Pard, we'll get there.

I do have some thoughts about my process thus far that should give a better chance at success the next time around.   

I think I may come out ahead if making the collar 2 pieces next time with a seam on both sides and soldering one side to the top, then the other. then the side seams on the collar. 

Because the top is so much thicker than the collar it takes alot more heat to get it to soldering temp. which as I mentioned is what caused the seam to pop open.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 09, 2010, 12:30:22 AM
So close ...

But I have total faith that the next one will please you even better than this one ....

Hang in there ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 09, 2010, 12:39:08 AM
This is also a situation where I'm at a serious disadvantage because the torch I got is a new-fangled piece of junk that doesn't have any adjustment for the flame,  it just runs full tilt.  I think I'll pick up a good ole fashioned style so I can tone my flame down and take things a bit slower and try to keep from over heating things too much.  

I'm not sure if I'm going to get any shop time tomorrow or not but if not I'll be starting Silver Throat,  take two on Saturday.  

This is really not a huge surprize so not to worry,  I ordered 2 sheets of the silver so I'd plenty on hand for just such a senario  ;)

WWE-  Glad you like the retension "gate".   Not sure what else to call it or if it would be deemed "period correct" that could be supported by documentation of past examples but it's certainly nothing modern or fancy  ;D

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 09, 2010, 12:51:30 AM
Josh,

In all my 'research' (for lack of a better word), very very few things were produced in Californio ... they remained dependent on the rich trade from South America, Spain and the Orient.

So if a knifemaker in Toledo Spain or the Cartagena could come up with it, it is quite possible that it coulda/mighta ended up here in 'Alta California'

I also read that, much like Spain in the time of Cervantes and later in Mexico, blood was everything. A person able to trace even one of his ancestors back to Spain was considered too good to work a normal job, but was requred to have the best of everything. Hence a Californio might be wondering where his next meal was coming from, but his saddle and bridle would be inlaid with silver and all of his trappings would/must be only the best ...

It almost seems like a plot of a 20th century Russian play....

So I am comfortable that such a knife would reach San Francisco, only an overnight passage on a steamer away from Sacramento ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on April 10, 2010, 05:06:46 PM
Trials and Tribulations should be the name of that knife when it is finished ;)


 :) >:( >:( >:( :) ;D >:( >:( :( :o :o ??? :P :)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 10, 2010, 07:44:15 PM
Rick,

True indeed.

Although Josh has to be commemded for  1.) taking on new challenges rather than resting on his great skills, and 2.) Doing it all on a public venue.

It makes me think of New Yankee Workshop ... Norm and his crew never seem to show a mistake, and I am sure there are many prototypes before the final one is completed on the TV Show ... it would be so much easier for Josh to show just his successes without the failures ...

But to me, I feel like I am getting to sit aside him and watch the knife take shape, with all the good and frustrations that brings ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 11, 2010, 10:55:38 AM
Sorry for the lack of updates Pards,

I did get a new torch which makes a world of difference when it comes to soldering, LOL.   

Also our good pal John Cohea gave  me a call and offered a couple suggestions and confirmed one of my fears, that the sheet I got for the project is really just too thin for this application.    :-[  When I ordered the materials I was on the fence of which thickness to get and unfortunately I went the wrong way.  This isn't a huge problem other than I've got to order another sheet of silver and wait for it's arrival and the supplier is closed on the weekend.  I'll get it ordered tomorrow and be back in the works in no time.

Another tip John gave was to use silver brazing rod to do the side seams.  This is a great tip because the brazing rod will melt at around 1100 degrees and the silver solder melts at 430 degrees.  Using the high temp rod on the side seams will prevent the sides from comming apart when soldering the top on so I'm gonna try and track down some brazing rod also.  It should be available from the local welders supply and easy to obtain but I'll find out for sure tomorrow.

Learning on the fly can be tough at times but I find sevaral things.    1.  Lessons learned by the school of hard knocks are not soon forgotten.   2.  Many folks limit their own abilities by remaining fence sitters who say,  Oh I'll learn to do that one day.

Shouldn't take but a day or 2 to get the new silver sheet so stick with us pards  ;D

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 11, 2010, 12:12:36 PM
Josh,

Sounds like a great plan to get the silver, and congradulations on the new torch ...

I am reminded of myself re the 'fence sitters' .... from taking a spanish class to learning to play the mandolin, my 'bucket list' is so large that I will probably never empty it ... but I should start making a list at least ...

Well, church is calling, so I had best be off.

Best wishes!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: The Elderly Kid on April 11, 2010, 07:03:53 PM
This is something like that apprenticeship experience I wrote of earlier. Here, Josh is doing almost everything for the first time. Next time someone comes to him with a project like this, the customer will get his knife much faster, with Josh getting most steps right on the forst try, or at least the second. After that, the process will be almost routine for him, and he'll be known as the go-to guy for belduques and all similar knives. How big a market that might be I can't say.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 11, 2010, 08:50:28 PM
Elderly Kid,

I pretty much agree ... but I think it just shows a creativity and a desire to work out of the box that will always lead to a customer recieving far more than he expects.

Besides, this project is very similar to the Searles Bowie that I left a pic of earlier, and the scabbard (it seems to much to simply call it a sheath) has much of the same charactaristics of the Rifleman's knife.

So, be it a Rifleman's knife, a Bowie, or just about anything formal in a knife, I think this shows that he can do it ... and will do it if that is what the customer wants ....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 12, 2010, 07:05:57 PM
Heya Pards just a short update to tell yall I got my hands on some of the high temp silver brazing rod and flux from a local welders supply and ordered the thicker sheet today so we'll be back to workin on our sheath in a snap  ;)

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Messerist on April 13, 2010, 04:53:39 AM
Well hurry up dagnabit!  I'm reduced to watching re-runs of Gilligan's Island here! >:(
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 13, 2010, 08:16:14 AM
Pretty much the same thing here .... I look forward to a new post every morning, and now am reduced to, shudder, AM cleaning!

Best wishes, though, Josh; you certainly deserve some time off ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on April 13, 2010, 10:49:00 AM
 ;D

Great men are seldom allowed any rest.
 
;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on April 13, 2010, 01:06:21 PM
Wow. My email updates for this thread stopped and I wondered what was happening. Today I got to read 6 pages.

This is fascinating, and I'm so grateful that WWE is willing to pay for our knife-making tutorial...

...and that Josh is willing to take the time to post it!!!! <grin>
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 13, 2010, 08:07:33 PM
"This is fascinating, and I'm so grateful that WWE is willing to pay for our knife-making tutorial..."

*L* If there is any speicial time for aYogi Berra-ism, this has got to be it!

So, 'Include me out' of this one ... it is very kind of you, but the tutorial and everything else is all Josh ... as the father of the bride was heard to say, "Hell, I'm  just paying for all of this!"  LOL

As I have said before, when all the gray in my beard is snowy white, I will show this knife to some whippersnapper who will reverently whisper, "Wow, an early Josh Dabney!" ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on April 13, 2010, 08:18:32 PM
Awwwww, don't be so modest. You've at least paid for the materials!

<grin>
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 14, 2010, 06:19:12 PM
Glad yall are enjoying the thread  ;D

Like Forty said,  NO rest for the wicked  ;)   LOL.

I usually try to keep a side project going that's not on any deadlines or rush at all so I can tinker with that when a few minutes of free time presents itself.

This time I put the finishing touches on a small kitchen utility knife and holder thats about a good days work and has been comming along 5 minutes at a time for the last couple months. 

The other thing I decided to work on while waiting for the new silver sheet to arrive was my very first forged blade that I forged out at a hammer-in   in january.  It's forged from W1 and I decided to shoot for a Hamon with the heat treating of the blade. 

It's about a 5" blade, hidden tang, guard and spacer made from architectual bronze and will be blackened once finished, wood is african blackwood.

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque369.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque370.jpg)

Of course this one is back on the shelf now that we're back under way with our Belduque sheath  ;)
 
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 14, 2010, 06:28:43 PM
Now back to the Peas and Carrots Pards  ;)

Here we are with our spankin new .040 German Silver sheet on the bandsaw ready to cut 2 pieces for the front and back of the throat.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque349.jpg)

After talking to John the other day I thought maybe I'd better go back and re-read the tuorial by Bruce Evans on making a silver sheath as it had been quite awhile since the last time I read it.  One thing I forgot all about was that the silver can easily be annealed by heating up to red and quenching in water so this is gonna make the sheet much easier to form and not so springy.  I just used my MAPP gas torch to do half of each piece at a time.  Of course this warped my pieces a bit and uglied them up but nothing some light hammering didn't take care of.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque351.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 14, 2010, 06:36:03 PM
Now here we are with our first piece cut, annealed, and edges de-burred, and clamped in the vise along side the sheath (The knife IS in the sheath to prevent crushing the wood from over-tightening)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque355.jpg)

This shows how I used a wood board to bend the sheet over its whole length at the same time.  Of course I did hammer on the wood to get the sheet to bend to the shape of the sheath body.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque356.jpg)

Makin some progress now  ;D
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque352.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque353.jpg)

Repeated this process for the second side.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 14, 2010, 06:50:39 PM
Now that we've got both sides made an fitted together it's time to try out the high temp (1400 degree melting point) silver brazing rod.  Here we are clamped up with paste flux on both sides of the joint
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque357.jpg)

I used the MAPP gas for this because I needed to reach such a high temp and it worked pretty well starting at the top and getting about an inch of the joint up to temp then chasing the flame towards the bottom with the rod.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque358.jpg)

I did test fit the throat onto the sheath body and make some minor adjustments to the seam on side #2 before this pic but here's the second side in the vise and brazed
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque359.jpg)

Cleaning things up a bit on a slack belt.  I'm not worried about getting a perfect finish here just making CERTAIN I've got 2 good joints and nothing that won't finish out when the time comes
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque360.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque361.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 14, 2010, 07:03:23 PM
Getting started on a new top.  I've got the slot cut and cleaned up with files
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque362.jpg)

Now we're checking both ways to be sure we get the top on square to th sides of the body.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque363.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque364.jpg)

Boy this low temp silver solder (430 degree melting point)  is MUCH easier to control with the adjustable flame on the propane torch  ;D
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque365.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque366.jpg)

Now we finish up for the day with the top cut out with the bandsaw and roughly shaped up with a 36 grit belt
 (http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque367.jpg)

Boy, after the tribulations it seemed like this here throat durn near made itself, LOL

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Messerist on April 14, 2010, 07:20:37 PM
Super work!  Your posts on the construction of WWE's knife are a source of constant amazement.  Good luck on your forged blade.  I've been forging knives for over 15 years and it never gets dull...pardon the pun.  Can't wait for your next installment.  Thanks again for sharing ;D.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 14, 2010, 07:54:11 PM
OMYGOSH!  This transcends knifemakeing and enters into fine art/jewelry making ... it looks like something a King might have had on his waist in Midievil Days ...

I am beginning to think that I might need an armed guard with when I docent with this on ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 14, 2010, 08:30:18 PM
Thanks fer the comments Pards !

WWE,   

Once the Belduque gets it's final sharpening I think you'll be all set for self defense while performing yer duties as a Docent  ;)

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 14, 2010, 09:37:01 PM
 Looks like I will be taking a knife fighting class ... never been in a fight in my life *S*
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on April 15, 2010, 10:17:21 AM
I could drive up for a weekend and slap you around a bit.   :o   ::)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on April 15, 2010, 01:10:48 PM
Now that's a true Pard!

<grin>
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Messerist on April 15, 2010, 07:14:20 PM
Any slappin' should be done "before" WWE gits his Belduque
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on April 15, 2010, 08:05:10 PM
Damn Josh! Hope i win the lotto soon :) :-*
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 15, 2010, 08:12:55 PM
Well Pards,  there's still a bunch of work that needs doin on the silver throat but sometimes ya just wanna break new ground ya know.  So I decided to put the finish work on the throat aside for the time being and git to working on the toe.

When I ordered the .040 sheet for the throat and toe body pieces I went ahead an ordered a piece of .0625 (1/16") sheet also to use for the "fin" (for lack of a better term).  I figure it'll be a bit stouter than the .040 but the 1/8" would certainly be overkill and just adding un-needed weight to the sheath.

Here we've traced the profile of the sheath and an outline giving us plenty of extra meat just because.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque373.jpg)

Now we cut out the fin and fit it up to the sheath body.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque372.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 15, 2010, 08:20:28 PM
Moving forward we trace the sheath with about 3/8" extra and cut out 2 pieces of .040 for the toe body panels
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque374.jpg)

Just as we did with the throat pieces we heated to a dull red and quenched in water to anneal the body pieces
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque375.jpg)

Now we're ready to begin forming the sides of the toe.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque376.jpg)

This time I'm using a piece of an old broom handle as a punch to form the silver.  The smaller surface of the wood allows us to work the silver over the curvature of the sheath.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque377.jpg)


Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 15, 2010, 08:27:29 PM
We're getting close on this side now
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque379.jpg)

Here you can see how much extra material we have to cut off this body panel
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque380.jpg)

test fitting and fine tuning  ;)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque381.jpg)

Here we're lining up the fin right where we want it to end up and marking on the body with a pencil where the body panel needs to meet up to the fin.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque382.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 15, 2010, 08:34:18 PM
Now we begin fitting the body to the fin right on the sheath body.  You can see we still need to take some silver off the edges of the body panel to get a tight fit.  I used the flat platen and an 80 grit belt to SLOWLY grind down the edge of the panel a little at a time and test fitting alot to get down to a tight fit.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque383.jpg)

Clamped up and ready to braze side #1 to the fin
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque384.jpg)

Here we've got it brazed and can move on to side 2.  
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque385.jpg)

Now we've got the first side all brazed up.  NOT very pretty is it  ;D
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque386.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque387.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque388.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 15, 2010, 08:43:37 PM
Now we repeated everything we just did with side #2 and begin tuning for a good fit on the sheath and match to side #1
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque389.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque390.jpg)

Git everything just where we want it and braze up side 2
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque391.jpg)

Now we begin using a combination of the grinder (to remove blobs)  files (to remove bulky braze) and slack belt grinding and hand sanding to clean things up.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque392.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque393.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 15, 2010, 08:49:26 PM
Started on the other side but still got a ways to go
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque395.jpg)

Thats as far as I got with the toe today but I figured it about time for a quick pic of the whole enchilada with a 12" ruler for size comparison   ;D
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque394.jpg)

Aught to make some good progress with the silver work tomorrow Pards and eventually we'll get to the point where we can finish off the sheath body  to prep for mounting the throat and toe.

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Dave Cole on April 15, 2010, 09:22:28 PM
Looking good brother, can't wait to see it in person when I get over there.Dave :)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 15, 2010, 11:08:17 PM
Forty Rod,

Gee, Thanks *VBS*
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 15, 2010, 11:14:53 PM
Josh,

This is really special ... I just showed the pic to my roomie and even he had to admit it was really something!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on April 16, 2010, 07:09:08 PM
Totally bitchin dude! :) 8)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: KidTerico on April 16, 2010, 09:23:39 PM
Josh thats one great piece of art your creating. KT
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 17, 2010, 10:49:21 AM
Thanks alot fer all the nice comments Pards.   Sure is startin to come together now  ;)

Today we're gonna see how I went about closing the opened bottom sections of the toe.  There are different ways to go about this so this is just how I decided to do it.  We begin by lining up our 1/8" silver sheet how it will sit on the toe and tracing where we need to cut it out.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque397.jpg)

Now we've got it rough cut so we size things up and make some marks where we need to grind away silver to achieve the needed shape.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque398.jpg)

Getting close to where we wanna be with this side. 
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque399.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 17, 2010, 10:58:37 AM
Now we are going to use our low temp silver solder to cap this toe off.   Remeber that everything else is brazed with the 1400 degree brazing rod so we should be able to get this soldering done with no risk of overheating the braze
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque400.jpg)

Now we'll take a quick trip across the grinder to clean it up a little and see how our joint looks before investing alot of time in the hand work.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque401.jpg)

Looks like we've got a good joint and can proceed with doing hand filing and sanding to shape up the toe and remove excess solder and braze.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque402.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 17, 2010, 11:09:03 AM
Here is what we're starting out with, my most aggressive cutting file
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque403.jpg)

Here is a file that I've ground the teeth off the edge making it a "safe edge" file.  This file is used to get right down into the corner without cutting into the body part of the toe
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque404.jpg)

Now before we go gittin the cart before the horse we're gonna stop with working on this side before it gets too purdy an fabricate and solder the cap on the other side.  
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque405.jpg)

A bit of solder and Voila
 (http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque406.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 17, 2010, 11:26:42 AM
Now before we go wastin a bunch of time cleaning up the fin we'll grind the fin down to it's final shape and then do the finishin
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque407.jpg)

Here's a good shot to show that we really only got the shape of the cap close before soldering it on and will do the final shaping as part of the hand finishing
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque408.jpg)

Sure though I had taken a few more pics of the process of filing and hand sanding to get to a buff-able finish on the toe  :-[
I guess not, LOL  but here we are after clean-up and a quick buff with white buffing compound. 

I should mention here that buffers are E-X-T-R-E-M-E-L-Y   dangerous tools and should be used only by those who respect it's power to make a projectile out of whatever is being buffed.  Thankfully we didn't have any safety problems here ;)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque410.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque411.jpg)

Thats all for todays installment Pards !  Thanks again to all the folks who are follerin along or just stopping in to check out the Belduque

Josh  ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 17, 2010, 05:38:52 PM
Josh,

That is just plain georgeous!


I wamt it!  I want it!  I want it!

(I feel like a three year old kid ... second childhood maybe?)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 18, 2010, 03:40:36 PM
Now that we've got the toe purdy much finished we're gonna git back to working on the throat.

We're getting started by marking out which side of the top faces the front just so we avoid any mistakes while grinding the top to final shape.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque412.jpg)

Here you can see how the top of the throat sticks out from the sheath body creating a shelf that will keep the sheath from slippin down into WWE's botas.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque413.jpg)

Now we're gonna git started with cleaning up the solder joint that connects the top of the throat to the body. The first tool we're using to get rid of the bulk is a regular old wood chisel.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque414.jpg)

This shot shows just how thick the solder is here,  LOL
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque415.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 18, 2010, 03:51:20 PM
Of course makin knives is always hazardous and I hardly notice small nicks, cuts, scratches etc.  but things like this do tend to happen regularly  ;)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque416.jpg)

Moving forward we progress to hand sanding the joint we've been working on
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque417.jpg)

Although I still need to do some more work with sandpaper a gave the throat a quick trip over the buffer to show exactly where I need to focus my sanding to get an even hand sanded finish thats ready to be buffed to the final finish
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque418.jpg)

WWE had asked that the sheath be made to carry the knife edge forward so this is how things are comming together
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque419.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 18, 2010, 04:02:19 PM
Now due to the fact that ole WWE requested edge forward carry after I had made the damascus lock something needed to be done because going edge forward would have sandwiched the lock between the knife handle and WWE's leg.  I had to do a bit of thinking on this and figured before making a new piece I'd try to see if I could modify the one I made to work correctly.  A couple of strategic twists helped get things squared away.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque420.jpg)

Now that I've got the lock working as intended it's time to allign it on the throat and use our transfer punch to mark where the pin needs to go on the top of the throat.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque421.jpg)

Punched
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque422.jpg)

Drilled.  I drilled the hole almost all the way through but not quite.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque423.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 18, 2010, 04:10:25 PM
Now we insert a silver pin into the hole, flux, and solder it in place.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque424.jpg)

Now we can put the damascus in place and trace the shape to match the throat top
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque425.jpg)

Now we've got the lock completed and fit together and all the shaping done on the throat and toe so we can take it all apart now
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque426.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque427.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 18, 2010, 04:18:57 PM
With the sheath all apart we need to continue the hand finish of the throat and get it buffed to the final finish before installing the lock .  Now that we're essentially done with our throat and toe we can begin putting the finish on the sheath body.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque429.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque430.jpg)

Sure is messy business,  LOL. 
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque431.jpg)

We're getting there now Pards !
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque432.jpg)

Of course we did have to clean up all the solder from around the pin
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque433.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 18, 2010, 04:23:21 PM
Lets just have a quick look Fellas

(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque434.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque435.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque436.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque438.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 18, 2010, 04:34:13 PM
Now our retension lock is made from a piece of damascus but is currently covered in scale from all the heating and bending it took to get it into this shape.  To get the damascus to etch and reveal the pattern we've got to remove all that scale.  It's kind of a pain in the rear but the only way to accomplish this task is with sandpaper wrapped around some pinstock but it's a nice touch and certainly worth the extra effort.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque439.jpg)

Here it is etched
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque440.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque441.jpg)

And now all the prep is done so we can install the lock on the throat by slipping it down over the pin and peening the pin
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque441.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque443.jpg)


Here's a final shot of the throat and toe ready for the final installation once the sheath body is ready.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque444.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 18, 2010, 04:44:39 PM
That's all for today Pards.

We are dwindling down to the very final finish work now.  Building up coats of Tru-oil on the sheath body and final assembly will take place over the next couple of days.

Of course I still also need to do a once over on the knife itself and sharpen but that's really about it, other than getting some finished pics.

-Josh
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Shotgun Steve on April 18, 2010, 06:07:31 PM
Josh that is fantastic work. You have done yourself proud. That is one awesome knife and sheath
combo. WWE you are one lucky man. And by the way pards, I have been using the knives that
Josh made for me on a variety of different chores, and they are doing the job, and asking for more.
You won't go wrong with a Josh Dabney knife. Take care.

 Shotgun Steve

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on April 18, 2010, 06:52:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qrjtr_uFac
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 18, 2010, 10:16:47 PM
Really funny Rick,

But I am no 'Mack the Knife' ... I am going to have to learn how to keep such a nice knife ... when I ordered it, I had no idea of what a superb knife I would be recieving .....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on April 19, 2010, 09:11:40 AM
WWE, why are wanting to carry it edge forward? Are you going to cross draw it? Do you have some secret ninja knife technique that you use?
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 19, 2010, 09:25:03 AM
kflach,

I am going off the only picture I have seen ... a painting by James Walker of a Bearfight among Californios ... In it he shows a kinfe worn just so. It looked like a rather clumsy draw until I tried it. Working with a bended knee, by placing the fingers forward and the outside of the knuckles against the pantleg, it is actually a very normal move (for me ayway...

(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/WaddWatsonEllis/californio-1870s-3.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on April 19, 2010, 09:34:46 AM
I guess that wouldn't be 'difficult' per se, but, at least as I picture it you'd have to twist your wrist as you pulled it out?

I'll just categorize this as a Ninja move. They were around during that time period, so it's period correct.

<grin>
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on April 19, 2010, 10:50:07 AM
I have always preferred carrying a knife with the cutting edge forward when carried on the right and to the rear on the left.  That way when I draw it the cutting edge is just naturally up, good for fighting, cutting string, etc., and is easily turned to cut my meat or spread cream cheese on a bagel.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on April 19, 2010, 05:40:38 PM
4TBar;  Or sharpening a pencil?  Then again you need a different grip when cleaning your fingernails.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 19, 2010, 08:07:10 PM
Well Pards,

I epoxied the toe and throat onto the belduque sheath today and started looking at it.  Looking and thinking,  hmmmmm.   I'm confident that the sheath isn't goint to slip down into the botas......  BUT ....   Whats to stop it from pulling out when drawing the blade  ?    The polished silver surely isn't going to provide the best gripping surface.   I decided I'd better make myself a pseudo-bota and test out how the sheath works.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque449.jpg)

WWE could probably get by the way things are but I got an idea to make a leather collar to go around the sheath and accomplish a few goals.
1.  Pad the back side of the throat where it digs into the leg in an uncomfortable manner.
2.  Provide better security against unwanted removal by having leather above and below the bota strap

I got started with a paper pattern to get down the sizing
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque450.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 19, 2010, 08:14:35 PM
Now that my pattern is done I put that on a piece of leather and traced it out.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque451.jpg)

Here you can see that I used my hole punch in the corners of the window and used my trusty utility knife to finish the cuts off
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque452.jpg)

Now that I've got my leather cut to size I'm holding it as tightly as possible and marking where the overlap comes to.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque453.jpg)

Here I've marked out where I need to skive down the thickness of the leather where it overlaps just to prevent the bulk of a full double thickness
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque454.jpg)

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 19, 2010, 08:24:28 PM
Now what I'm shooting for is for this collar to fit TIGHT  on the sheath body but still be removable if wanted.   So my method for tensioning is to go about 1/8" past where my overlap mark was effectively making the collar smaller than the sheath body.  It can get difficult to properly line things up with glue on the parts so I lined it up dry and punched a rivet hole where I want the final allignment to be.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque455.jpg)

Now I dampened the leather with water and used an antler tip to burnish the inside of the window a little bit.  The water is gonna help the leather soak up the dye and also make it soft enough that I can stretch the collar over the sheath while it's still pliable.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque456.jpg)

I dyed with dark brown pro oil dye and put some glue on both sides of the leather that overlaps.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque457.jpg)


Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 19, 2010, 08:40:06 PM
Now we get it stuck and set the first rivet in the hole we punched earlier
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque458.jpg)

Here you can kinda tell how tight this thing is and how I worked it up to the position I was hoping for
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque459.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque460.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque461.jpg)

Now this will be the best explaination as to how the collar will lock the sheath in place once the botas strap is cinched down around it.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque462.jpg)

You know I had to wear this bad boy around the house for awhile  ;D    I do think the leather collar is needed mainly for the comfort factor as once this addition was made I'd go as far as to call it comfortable to wear around.
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque465.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque467.jpg)

I still have to do the final clean-up of everything but I do feel MUCH better about the functionality of the sheath now so it was worth the extra day IMHO   ;D

I should have this one finished up tomorrow and hopefully in the hands of the post office on it's way to WWE.

-Josh  ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Will Ketchum on April 19, 2010, 09:04:59 PM
It occurs to me that the beautiful sheath is going to be hidden by the bota. :( 

Almost a shame. :-\

Will Ketchum
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 19, 2010, 09:34:46 PM
Josh,

What beautiful work and attention to detail ... I don't even think I could have put exactly what was important into words ... and now you not only nailed it but came up with a lovely slouton  ... I can't wait!

Will Ketchum,

When reading the paper on South American knives, the author said that the Gauchos carried a short sword/long knife against their backbone, held in place by their thick belts. I would imagine that the Californio would do much the same, especially if he had sucha lovely scabbared/sheath as mine, with its silver tip to show off...

BTW, the whole paper can be found here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/facon/criollo.

While searching for an appropriate Gaucho pic, I found this sight:

http://www.gauchoknives.com/the_knife_history.htm


(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/WaddWatsonEllis/Gaucho.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 20, 2010, 02:53:55 PM
Well it sure has been a long road to Belduque Pards but all good things must end they say  ;)   And such is the trip from billet to belduque.

Here we have the final pics
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque474.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque475.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque476.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque477.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque478.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque480.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque482.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque483.jpg)
(http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/joshdabney/Belduque/Belduque487.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Ned Buckshot on April 20, 2010, 02:55:47 PM
Just Beautiful Josh!

Thanks for letting us tag along on this adventure.

Ned
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Gun Butcher on April 20, 2010, 03:10:25 PM
  Josh, I don't know when I have enjoyed something as much as this. You did an absolutely beautiful job on the knife and sheath, and your explanatin of the process was first rate.
You can be justifiably proud of your work its great.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on April 20, 2010, 03:23:14 PM
STANDING OVATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Josh!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 20, 2010, 04:51:56 PM
Josh, 


I am truly humbled by your knife. I have never owned, nor probably ever willl again, own something that is quite such a work of art  ... and your labor of love rings through in every detail ....

Is it okay to keep in touch with an email every so often?

I mean, I am so not up to owning this that even keeping it sharp is going to be a learing experience. Up 'til now, I just used the diamond stone that I use for my kitchen cutlery to sharpen all my other knives ...

Is there a sharpening system that you prefer?  Especially for this Damascus?
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Josh Dabney on April 20, 2010, 05:31:31 PM
Sure appreciate the comments Pards !

WWE, 

Of course feel free to drop an e-mail anytime Pard.  Fer that matter anyone can contact me at dabneyknives@yahoo.com any ole time.


As for sharpening your new knife,   it won't take anything extrordinary to sharpen this knife and you'll be best served using the method your most comfortable with.  I cut the initial edge on a slow moving 400 grit belt but then hand sharpened on medium and fine stones then stropped on a leather strop.   The fact that the blade is damascus doesn't make it any different or more difficult to sharpen.  Your diamond stone should give you the same results you typically get with it.

Of course if you ever feel it's needed I'd be happy to sharpen it for ya anytime.  Of course the shipping makes that kinda expensive but there won't be any charge on my end  ;D

-Josh

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Shotgun Steve on April 20, 2010, 09:00:10 PM
 Fantastic Josh...absolutely fantastic!!!!!

 Shotgun Steve
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Mogorilla on April 20, 2010, 09:22:24 PM
For once, I am speechless, have been the entire ride.  Amazing. 
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Messerist on April 20, 2010, 09:26:00 PM
Well that ride is over...sniff.  I wanna go again!!!!!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 20, 2010, 09:49:36 PM
The great thing about it is that , if one gets to feeling a little less without the ride, all 30 pages will be here online ...

And then there is the possibility that Josh and his new client might grace us with an entirely new 'ride'.

Besides, there is that skinny Damascus 'Belduque'/fish fileting knife that is inside attemp # 1 just waiting to come out  ...

Josh, when you are done with that , I if no one else would love to see what becomes of it!  If no one else is interested, send email!

But I can't imagine that I would be the only one interested ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on April 21, 2010, 10:22:30 PM
YEEEEE HAAAAW!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOBO_tUzrH0&feature=fvw
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: rafterp on April 23, 2010, 12:49:43 PM
The last couple of days I just havne't been myself. Not depressed, but not overly happy, not angry or irritable, but somewhat out of sorts. Finally realized the problem this morning...Josh's tutorial ended!!
I can't express it any better than these other gentlemen, but man I enjoyed this thread. Sure hope there's some others down the pike!
Thanks
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on April 23, 2010, 03:35:36 PM
Hmmm. Maybe if enough people feel that way we can pool our money together and have Josh make *me* a knife - and show how he did it.


<evil grin>
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 23, 2010, 05:42:44 PM
RafterP and kflach,

I too feel kinda let down ... I looked forwared to the posts every night, but, having recieved the knife today, I can't say I am displeased to have it in my opsession.

Klacch, I would give Josh a PM; let him know exactly what your wishes areand he quite possibly might have an option the you have not considered.

Like the old adage said, you won't know until you talk to him....

(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/WaddWatsonEllis/Belduque476.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on April 26, 2010, 09:22:17 AM
Sigh. That's sooooo Beautiful!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 26, 2010, 09:41:53 AM
Kflach,

Why thank you sir!

I am only waiting for my Botas so that I can wear it  .... can't wait and it is beginning to look like it will be another nonth (or so) before they get done ...  but I was at a soiree where us reenactors were 'color' for the event ... besides getting an excellent smorgasbord at the Hyatt Regengcy, there was a commercial photographer taking pics for free of the attendees ... so I got a portrait quality photo of mysellf in Californio mode. The photographer is sending me a n email attachement of the pic, so I will be posting it on my profile 'til my Botas appear ....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Dr. Bob on April 26, 2010, 10:27:00 PM
Cool!  Looking forward to seeing it.  ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: santee on April 27, 2010, 06:10:42 AM
Yep! Me too.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on April 27, 2010, 08:39:18 AM
WWE,
My home club, The Texas Ten Horns (http://www.texastenhorns.com/), hosts the NCOWS Southwest Regional match in October. This year it'll be Oct. 28 - 30. You're more than welcome to come this year and bring your Belduque. Actually, you'd be welcome to come even if you didn't bring it.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 27, 2010, 08:51:11 AM
kflach,

I was planning to go about a month before, but this sounds like a real hoot ...

But I am off to my volunteer 'job' right now, and will have t look at the link later ...

TTFN
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on April 27, 2010, 09:09:37 AM
The info on this year's match is still incomplete on the web site. There are, however, pictures from last year's Regional. Also, here are some links to some relevant threads from the past.

SW Regional Pictures, Scores & Video
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,29445.0.html

GONE TO TEXAS: 2009 NCOWS SW Regional Match
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,27976.0.html

2010 SW Regional and the 2010 GAF Muster
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,29503.0.html
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 28, 2010, 01:46:00 AM
Kflach, Santee et al,

I just got the email with the pic taken at the state dinner when I was the 'color' , and I posted it on my profile

Whadaya think?
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: santee on April 28, 2010, 06:22:17 AM
Great! The tie adds nice contrast. You look the part.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 28, 2010, 07:59:58 AM
Santee,

Thanks for the encouragement; sometimes I think I look like a psychotic Mariachi player with a bone to pick with somebody .... *S*
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: KidTerico on April 28, 2010, 08:05:46 AM
I think it looks great. It gives it the final touch. KT
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 28, 2010, 08:22:30 AM
Thanks, KT!

It is nice to hear from others whether the persona of the person one is trying to recreate is working or not ... trying to judge ones self is a bit too myopic ....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on April 28, 2010, 09:05:35 AM
It looks right to me!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on April 28, 2010, 11:06:09 AM
Santee,

Thanks for the encouragement; sometimes I think I look like a psychotic Mariachi player with a bone to pick with somebody .... *S*

Well, yeah, but that's not a bad thing, either.   :o   :D

You look great.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 28, 2010, 05:26:17 PM
Forty Rod,

I never really looked at it that way ... thanks! *VBS*
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: santee on April 29, 2010, 06:52:26 AM
Sociopath mariachi...naw. I've seen them here in Tucson and you don't look like one. :-)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 29, 2010, 08:26:11 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on April 29, 2010, 08:49:04 AM
I think the real question here is do psycho-mariachis get bigger tips?
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 29, 2010, 08:56:10 AM
Tips, TIPS?  


We were supposed to get TIPS?

Now I am feeling a bit psychotic ... where's that '51 Colt .... gonna REALLY load it and go get them back tips!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on April 29, 2010, 12:59:17 PM
TIPS?

We don't got no TIPS!

We don't NEED no Steenkin' TIPS!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Messerist on April 29, 2010, 08:53:18 PM
So that's what all those grizzled Highwaymen were after holding up those stages and mail hacks, Tips!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 29, 2010, 09:31:29 PM
Could be ... if you stop and think of all those kindesses that were given in the name of a cowboy uh, 'noblesse oblige', well maybe some of them thought that they were owed ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Dutchman Dick on August 01, 2010, 12:57:26 PM
How short can a belduque blade be...and still be considered a belduque? I ask, because Crazy Crow Traders has one for sale, available with either a horn or bone handle, with a 5-3/4" blade. Price seems decent. I read somewhere that they are made in India, and come with a blunt edge (due to Indian export laws, supposedly), but sharpen up pretty good. But can a knife that short still be considered a "true" belduqe?
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on August 01, 2010, 01:30:38 PM
I can't answer your question about the length, but the knives made by Windlass Cutlery of Indian for Atlanta Cutlery are pretty good.  I have several including my Army officer's saber and Marine NCO sword.  I've compared them to some of the best and they measure up quit nicely for my purposes.  Small details aren't as perfect, but I'm betting there are more NCOs and junior officers with these than with the much more expensive ones.

The smaller knives do well and take a decent edge.  I'd avoid stainless if you have a option , but I don't like stainless anyway.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on August 02, 2010, 12:34:37 AM
I have a Crazy Crow Belduque ... and here is what I have found ...

If I was still sailing, I would drill a hole where the final rivet is, put in a hollow rivet and pass some line through it.

Pro:

*It fits comfortable in the hand, is probably a great knife for about any camp or sailing use I could thing of ....

* It is just plain handy ...

Con:

I used it on some food with an oil base like pasta salad .... it seems to have permanently left oil in the knife blade.

I have been afraid to sharpen it cause it looks like it was chromed ... and that I would but through the chrome finish if I sharpened it

Forty Rod, I would appreciate any assistance you might give on hotreat this blade and get it sharp ....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on August 02, 2010, 10:41:50 AM
Chromed?  I haven't come across this yet.  Most of Crazy Crow's knives... but not all... are listed as carbon steel or stainless.  I haven't bought any stainless because I am simply adverse to stainless anything in the line of cutlery.

I have four small stag handled knives made in Germany in three sizes. One is a dead ringer for one my grandfather brought back from Switzerland in 1894 or 1897.  (He was there twice and I don't which trip produced the knife.)

I also have a Columbia River dagger from them.

All of these knives take and hold a decent edge, but not an excellent one.

I do have one stainless knife, an 8" stag handles Bowie by Linder of Germany, that I may have bought from them, but don't recall for sure.

I have an Atlanta Cutlery Mountain Man Bowie with a carbon steel blade that is a nice knife but it weighs a ton and is too long for my purposes, and the previously mentioned saber and sword.  They do have stainless blades, but I never meant to use them for anything other than display.

I wish I could help you with the problem, but I have never run into one like it before.

Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on August 02, 2010, 11:25:55 AM
Forty Rod,

Actually you have helped quite a bit .... perhops I will send an email to Crazy Crow to find out about the knife ... It actually came quite dull, and I was thinking it was a looks only, show-an-tell, this-is-what-a-Belduque-would-look-like knife .... and other than stabbing, it is less sharp then the avereage dinner knife  ...

So I  probably interpreted it the wrong wat .... as I said, I will email Crazy Crow and find out that they have to say .... and I will let you know the results ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on August 02, 2010, 11:29:19 AM
P.S. It makes a great little steak knife ... I have used it in reemactments, and it is quite handy around the food prep area .... and since a Belduques gets it shape and history from Flemish/Dutch butcheer knives, I have little wonder it is so handy ....
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on August 02, 2010, 11:52:36 PM
Went back and checked on the Linder Bowie knife.  I got it from mike Shelhart  (Temecula) at a Cowboys event in Norco.

Can't blame that one on Crazy Crow.  ::)   It's actually a pretty good knife considering it's a stainless blade.  It won't ever do to shave with or stand any hard use, but it's fair enough.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on August 03, 2010, 12:38:33 AM
I have not heard from Crazy Crow, but I only emailed then this am.

I have the Crazy Crow Large Belduque with me right now no marks on the blade or anywhere on the knife to show who produced it ...

I tried some Never-Dull to the stains on the knife ... it took out about 90% of the stains ... and tried sharpening it with the the 'diamond sharpening stick' from my kitchen knife set and it helped a little ... I might could cut a piece of steak with it now certainly not shave ... *S*
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on August 03, 2010, 05:34:19 PM
I had a reply from Crazy Crow when I came home today ... and I am copying it in its entirelty:

From -> djb  (188631)
These kinves are from India and per customs could not
be sharpened.  You can sharpen these blades just like
you would any other carbon steel blades.  Let us know
if we can help you with any thing else. Thanks Debbie
cust serv 800-786-6210 X116

So, although I believe I could keep the blade sharp, I think for the initial sharpening, I will send it to a blade sharpener.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on August 03, 2010, 06:57:59 PM
Let us know how it turns out.  You have my curiositizer working now.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on August 04, 2010, 09:31:23 AM
Back during our time period, the Japanese Samurai were allowed to test the sharpness of their blades by beheading convicted criminals (and obnoxious peasants) legally and without retribution. Is it possible that a Californio could have met a Japanese immigrant and picked up that belief system? I'm sure it would conclusively demonstrate the quality of the blade for us, and goodness knows there are plenty of criminals (and obnoxious peasants) around that no one would miss.

Just a thought...



<evil grin>
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on August 04, 2010, 10:26:38 AM
Kflach

I often joke that I went from a 'commie pinko' (or so I was called) to being a right leaning Democrat just by moving from South Carolina to Califonia .... *S*

So in this left leaning state where every life has meaning, no matter how miscreant, I doubt that they would have any sens of jumor about beheading anybody ...

But it is certainly an interesting thought and a temptation for sure ...*S*
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: kflach on August 04, 2010, 10:42:44 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on August 09, 2010, 12:31:54 AM
Dadburnit! Smile Waddy ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on August 09, 2010, 12:35:45 AM
Hey, Dark Ranger,

Before you critique the lack of a smile on my profile, better take  look at the puss on your own  *S*
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on August 09, 2010, 12:45:22 AM
Rick,

That last post looks harsh once I saw it ... it was meant to be just gentle kidding ... please consider it as such ... Thanks
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on August 09, 2010, 12:50:07 AM
Now children, let's play nice or I'll lock you Grandma's steamer trunk again.   :o
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on August 09, 2010, 09:40:39 AM
FYI,

Since the knife was pretty unsharpened, I took it to a place that sharpens table saw blades & such ... cost me $5.00 to have both the normally sharpened edge made sharp and the other side sharpened  ... now I can keep it up now that it has an edge on it .... but I think it was well worth the sharpening cost ....

The Belduque I had made I more or less measure so that the blade and scabbard would fit in the space between the knee and ankle, since that was where they were often worn ... look at the right foreleg in the rider in the pic ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: The Elderly Kid on August 09, 2010, 01:09:40 PM
His right foreleg is twirling the lassoo. It's his right hindleg carrying the belduqe.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on August 09, 2010, 04:27:22 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on August 09, 2010, 05:32:13 PM
Elderly Kid,

Point taken ... *S*

But if you blow the picture up, you will see the grips of his knife coming out of his 'Bota de Alas', or litterally 'boot wings'.

These were worn the way a NorteAmericano would wear chaps; and the Belduques was the size of a small machete' and would be tucked into the Botas in a way that it could be accessed quickly

(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab107/WaddWatsonEllis/californio-1870s-3.jpg)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Dr. Bob on August 09, 2010, 09:39:01 PM
Great picture,  But..... only a crazy man goes after a Grizzly bear with a horse and a rope!!  ::)  ::)  ::)
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on August 10, 2010, 12:46:31 AM
I didn't say that some of their habits weren't a little... unusual ... but bear hunting with four or five riders and ropes was considered a sport ... and as a rule, they distained rifles or pistols ... as in this painting ...
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: Forty Rod on August 10, 2010, 10:41:39 AM
Great picture,  But..... only a crazy man goes after a Grizzly bear with a horse and a rope!!  ::)  ::)  ::)

Heard about a cowboy who roped a grizzly one time.

Found himself in a terrible fix:  He couldn't hold on and didn't dare let go.  :o

 ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on August 10, 2010, 10:50:19 AM
I think that would be the American version of having a tiger by the tail ... LOL
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: GunClick Rick on August 17, 2010, 11:32:01 PM
I just took a look in the mirror :o Dang your right :-X ;D
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: James-G on September 08, 2010, 02:26:22 PM
Josh great work .Love the curly maple case with the germa sliver caps . Where did you get your Patter welded steel? Great work agion.
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on April 20, 2011, 01:24:03 AM
Josh,

Just to let you know, I am still waiting to get those Botas to show off your knife best ... and when I get it Iwill take some pics
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on February 15, 2012, 10:11:37 AM
Bump!
Title: Re: WaddWatsonEllis Belduque WIP
Post by: WaddWatsonEllis on September 30, 2012, 08:13:48 AM
Bump ....