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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den  |  The Dark Arts (Moderator: Lucky Irish Tom)  |  Topic: Shot shell loading 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Shot shell loading  (Read 44414 times)
Will Ketchum
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« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2006, 06:06:56 pm »

Almost forgot, Will are you using the same wad in the brass shells as the plastic ones?  If so the larger id brass shell might not be sealing as well as gas may be leaking past the was and disrupting the shot column a bit.

No I'm not.  I use 12 gauge Alcan wads in my plastic hulls but 11 gauge over powder and cushion wads and 10 gauge over shot cards in the brass.  I am going to try more shot.

Will Ketchum
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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2006, 07:57:56 pm »

Ho the fire,

It's the number of pellets on the steel that pushes it over.  No matter what, ya gots to put a lot of pellets on the steel to make it die.  I jest shot "Hang um High"  and there were a couple of tough poppers.  My lil 20ga laid 'em down pronto.  Many big testostrone twelves couldn't get the job done.  So, I'm tellin' ya, it's the total mass of lead on the target that makes it tip over.

DD-DLoS
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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2006, 09:17:43 pm »

I agree with DD.  I never understood the facination in CAS for sawed-off's.  Better to keep it full length, and use it often, like hunting or on clay bird ranges.  Actually, the one club match I won top overall, was the one I used a 1953 vintage mod 97 with 30" full choke.
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« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2006, 08:50:14 am »

I pulled the over shot cards and added as many 7 1/2s as I could fit in and still seat the card.  Most of them took a full Lee 1.3cc dipper.

Last weekend I usd them and I knocked every knock down shotgun target offered.  I even got 4 out of 5 on the shotgun poppers Grin (which I normally miss)  I must admit one was a "volunteer" in that it broke off the tosser. Wink

Thanks for your help.  Next time I'll use more shot from the start.

Will Ketchum
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« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2006, 05:45:16 pm »

 Will, I may have missed it some where.  Are you lubing the fiber wads? If so you may want to place a card over the wad before loading shot. However a shot cup would do the same thing. I found on a couple of occassions the wad was blowing thru the shot. I would agree with the others extra shot. One other thing I found on Knock downs, I aim for the center downwards towards the base on the target. This seems to get them for me.
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« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2007, 08:37:46 pm »

Hi there.  I'm new to The Dark Side and completely green when it comes to blackpowder loading.  I saw a blackpowder shooting exhibition and would like to know more.  I have a Winchester Model 1901 10 gauge that I would like to load brass shells for and I'm looking for any advice you can give me.  I do know how to reload regular smokeless pistol and rifle shells, but I have never loaded shotgun shells.  I don't know anything about blackpowder loading so any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.  For instance, is there anything I should stay away from?  Thanks so much.

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« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2007, 05:14:26 pm »

Hi there.  I'm new to The Dark Side and completely green when it comes to blackpowder loading.  I saw a blackpowder shooting exhibition and would like to know more.  I have a Winchester Model 1901 10 gauge that I would like to load brass shells for and I'm looking for any advice you can give me.  I do know how to reload regular smokeless pistol and rifle shells, but I have never loaded shotgun shells.  I don't know anything about blackpowder loading so any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.  For instance, is there anything I should stay away from?  Thanks so much.

Howdy Friend,

Well the collective wisdom of CAS City concerning scattergun shells is right here in this thread. Read it through carefully and you SHOULD be able to muddle your way around reloading them. One thing that comes to mind to avoid is that one normally doesn't
resize brass hulls.

Anyone else got some avoidance reccomendations for our new pard?
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« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2007, 05:22:07 pm »

S'pearimint with some of them new fangled plastic hulls for that .87 win also... The brass hulls are nice and doesn't take alot of $$$$ to get started loading and can be used over and over again. Not to mention they look really good ejecting from a soot burner.
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« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2007, 12:20:55 pm »

Hi there.  I'm new to The Dark Side and completely green when it comes to blackpowder loading.  I saw a blackpowder shooting exhibition and would like to know more.  I have a Winchester Model 1901 10 gauge that I would like to load brass shells for and I'm looking for any advice you can give me.  I do know how to reload regular smokeless pistol and rifle shells, but I have never loaded shotgun shells.  I don't know anything about blackpowder loading so any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.  For instance, is there anything I should stay away from?  Thanks so much.



The only advice that I can give, outside all the other suggestions in this thread, is when you load those brass 10 gauge hulls, use 9 gage nitro wads over the powder, 9 gauge fibre wads, and an 8 gauge over shot wad glude in place with Elmers or whatever glue/sealant of your choice.

The oversize wads will keep the gas from escaping and give enough resistance to give a good complete burn of the powder.
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« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2008, 03:39:16 pm »

I am working up a BP/Pyrodex load (I know, but I have three pounds of Pyrodex RS I got for 7 bucks each left to use up) for my 12 gauge. 

I will be loading on a MEC Sizemaster, though I will likely be loading the powder using my Lyman 55 BP measure.  (Don't plan to run the Goex through the MEC, just the Pyro)

A call to Hodgdon netted me this suggestion:
1 1/8oz shot
claybusters red wad
50-65gr Pyrodex RS

I am not nuts about the idea of running plastic wads in my shotguns.  (Even less so after reading through this thread.)  My plan was to go with Circle Fly cards and wads instead.

I am loading into Winchester AA plastic hulls over Winchester primers. 

Here's my questions:
I was looking at dropping to 1oz of shot.  Stuff is pricey and I want to make it stretch if I can.  Will that hurt me at around 60gr of 2f?  (I know patterning will help answer that question, just wanted to get an idea before I start stuffing that spherical gold into hulls.) 

Will the length attained with 60gr 2f assorted cards and wads (standard 12 gauge circle fly stuff) and 1oz of shot fill the shell (2 3/4 AA) enough to give me a good crimp? 

If not, what is the easiest and most reliable way to take up the extra space?

Also, I have heard of folks spiking their shot charges with glitter and the like to give a little more "show" to their shots.  Is there any reason to avoid doing this?  Anything I should be concerned about as far as this altering the load or "show fillers" to avoid?

Thanks for the help in advance gang!

Jack Lee
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« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2009, 07:18:09 pm »

Cuts Crooked
What's your load for a Vintage Turkey load . Have you had the opportunity to get your double ready for season Huh
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« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2009, 09:01:22 pm »

 

Here's my questions:
I was looking at dropping to 1oz of shot.  Stuff is pricey and I want to make it stretch if I can.  Will that hurt me at around 60gr of 2f?  (I know patterning will help answer that question, just wanted to get an idea before I start stuffing that spherical gold into hull.

Jack Lee
Howdy Jackson Lee, load up a couple each of a few different loads and put em on a big piece of cardboard. 60gr may blow a hole, but you'll never know till you try. You can save some money and shoot tighter patterns by using plastic wads, clean up has never been a problem for me. I've been told it's worse in some older guns and if you exceed 60gr. My 1 1/8oz load is 57gr of 2f Schuetzen, I also have a 7/8oz load using 47gr. For 1oz I'd start around 53gr with a Win pink wad. As for the glitter, I've seen it and thongs with no problem Grin, but stay away from colored chaulks, they really choke you and others  Sad.

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« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2009, 03:21:53 pm »

Rowdy,

My SxS is an old Crecsent choked Mod x Mod. With those open chokes it's difficult to get a good tight pattern with my normal "square load". So I load 65 gr of Pyrodex RS, by volume, under an overpowder wad, NO CUSHION WAD, then I make a shot cup from heavy paper stock and fill the whole thing up with a little over 1 1/8 oz of #6 magnum shot, put an overhot wad on top and crimp. With this load I feel confident to 25 yards max, and prefer even closer if I can get the turkeys in there.
Note that I'm using pyro instead of BP in this load. That's because it crushes better than BP and I can get more in there and mash it down some for a bit more velocity.

Restricting my shots with this combo to 20 - 25 yards can be frustrating at times, I often get birds in to almost 30 and have them hang right there, but I don't feel like I can stretch it any further than that. If the season is getting short I get out my 97 Norchester and go with factory turkey loads Lips Sealed
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« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2009, 03:44:53 pm »

Cuts
Thanks for the info . I have been loading Federal gold Medal paper hulls and they are doing a great job and the paper hulls have a beautiful crimp . The shotgun I hunt with is a TTN with a 20 inch barrel . I had it choked so could use it on Turkey. I hung a couple clay birds on a target stand and was able to break at 50 yards .
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« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2009, 06:50:48 pm »

Well, a 'RULE OF THUMB" for muzzle loaders is equal amounts by volume of powder to shot. It does give one a nice quick load. It patterns well in my 10 and 16ga guns. I have also used that as a starting point for my cartrage guns with similar result. I don't use shot cups, I don't like that spider webby snot that is left in the bore as I am using BP or APP.
"Lubing" is just a bit of "Motor Mica" from Ballistic Products shake & bake style and a little trick I learnd by accident was the use of a "Tyvek" patch on the cusion wad. It keeps the pellets from imbedding in the shot cups on heavy steel goose loads,and they do a fine job in BP loads as well Grin
Most older guns were designed for the fiber wads, and pattern better with those. Oh for a touch of pizzaz, put a scoop of ceiling glitter in with the shot. Shocked It's a hoot.
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« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2011, 11:35:02 am »

I'm in the process of converting over to the dark arts and in rapid learning mode.  I have my pistol and rifle loads down. Using DD big lube bullets with SPG. Absolutly perfect and no issues there.

However, I'm having a "challenge in discovery" with my shot shell.  Heres what I have.  TTN 12 guage model 1878 coach gun.  I'm assuming no choke at all.   I have magtech brass.  I was given about a 1/2 case of pryodex RS.  (Yeah I know, not really the real stuff, but its cheep, as in free) I've loaded a square load, using my Lee shot Dipper set at 1 1/8 oz for pryodex RS ( gauged out about 82 grains on my muzzler loader powder charger)  11 gauge Circle fly over powder wad, followed by a grease with bore butter 11 guage  fiber wad from circle fly, 1 1/8 7 1/2 shot, 11 guage over shot card, and a tad of elmers white glue, and polished off by a very slight crimp in an RCBS 12 guage die.  I get a lot of smoke, but was disappointed in that I didnt get the bang I was expecting, the recoil is anemic, and I cant seam to knock over the shot gun knock downs.

Heres what I suspect.  I'm getting a lot of pressure release around the wads, or the pressure is blowing through the wads and scattering the shot, or both.  I havnt had the opportunite to shot pattern it, but I suspect the pattern is something like a big donut.  I've read a lot about using AA wads, but dont want to scrub lots of plastic out of the barrel. and read about making my own shot cups.  I've had recommendations on using less powder, more powder, heavier shot, etc.  So I'm open.....

Any suggestions?

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« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2011, 11:43:04 am »

I'm in the process of converting over to the dark arts and in rapid learning mode.  I have my pistol and rifle loads down. Using DD big lube bullets with SPG. Absolutly perfect and no issues there.

However, I'm having a "challenge in discovery" with my shot shell.  Heres what I have.  TTN 12 guage model 1878 coach gun.  I'm assuming no choke at all.   I have magtech brass.  I was given about a 1/2 case of pryodex RS.  (Yeah I know, not really the real stuff, but its cheep, as in free) I've loaded a square load, using my Lee shot Dipper set at 1 1/8 oz for pryodex RS ( gauged out about 82 grains on my muzzler loader powder charger)  11 gauge Circle fly over powder wad, followed by a grease with bore butter 11 guage  fiber wad from circle fly, 1 1/8 7 1/2 shot, 11 guage over shot card, and a tad of elmers white glue, and polished off by a very slight crimp in an RCBS 12 guage die.  I get a lot of smoke, but was disappointed in that I didnt get the bang I was expecting, the recoil is anemic, and I cant seam to knock over the shot gun knock downs.

Heres what I suspect.  I'm getting a lot of pressure release around the wads, or the pressure is blowing through the wads and scattering the shot, or both.  I havnt had the opportunite to shot pattern it, but I suspect the pattern is something like a big donut.  I've read a lot about using AA wads, but dont want to scrub lots of plastic out of the barrel. and read about making my own shot cups.  I've had recommendations on using less powder, more powder, heavier shot, etc.  So I'm open.....

Any suggestions?



Sounds like you need to increase the pressure when seating the wads
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« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2011, 12:57:45 pm »

Try having your powder at about 70 percent of whatever your shot is it will tighten your pattern considerably. If ya want it tighter make yourself paper shot cups. WM
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« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2011, 01:40:45 pm »

Try having your powder at about 70 percent of whatever your shot is it will tighten your pattern considerably. If ya want it tighter make yourself paper shot cups. WM

That is volume, of course.  This advice is as old as wingshooting; - and works!
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« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2011, 05:05:56 pm »

Yep on the list to try, less powder/ make shot cups.............

Thanks gents
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« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2011, 04:44:14 am »

That is volume, of course.  This advice is as old as wingshooting; - and works!
And this Gentleman is where I got that information. WM
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« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2011, 10:17:06 am »

This is from THIS THREAD in 2006!

FWIW I found that my old double (cylinder bore choke) patterned very poorly with a square load of BP and shot without a shot cup using Magtech hulls.  Big wide patterns with huge holes.  If you don't want to use a shot cup there are a couple of ways to tighten the pattern.  1) Use a larger shot size or 2) use 1/3 more shot than powder. Either will tighten the pattern somewhat but doing both tightens the pattern the most.  If you want or need a really tight pattern a shot cup is probably needed.


This is from three centuries ago;

http://www.archive.org/stream/pteryplegiaorart00mark#page/n3/mode/2up

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« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2011, 11:17:23 am »

I have been shooting brass hulls for a few years now - since about 2004.

I shoot 2 inch brass hulls, 2-1/2 inch brass hulls (both sets Magtechs) and just got my 2-5/8 10 gauge brass hulls from RMC last week

I am loading up 10 gauge for the first time this week and there are some tweaks to the brass hulls depending on whether you are using magtechs or RMC's.

RMC's are turned from solid brass - they are very thick walled.  It is recommended with RMC's that you use same gauge components with the shells - ie over shot & over powder crads as well as the fiber wads.

For the Magtech hulls I highly recommend using at least one gauge size bigger for all components to get a good seal.  I had my Magtechs converted for 209 primers - i know several folks show shoot them with rifle primers with no issues.

I used to use Elmer's but started to have issues in very cold or hot weather with my seals.  Since late 2006 I have used a hot glue gun and I will not look back.  The hot glue gun glue dries within about 30 minutes and retains a rubbery consistency when completely dry - I have never had it fail in cold or hot weather.

I do not use plastic cups - in my newer guns with modern barrels I was able to get plastic out very easy with not much fuss - but with my older guns it took more work - so I only use fiber wads.

Since I shoot mostly antique shotguns - they were all designed for fiber wads.  I shoot a Stevens Riverside (12), a converted Martini-Henry (12), a remington 1883 (10) and a 1901 Winchester (10) - what can I say I am a sucker for antique steel barreled shotguns!
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« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2012, 05:58:10 pm »

I just read the current Ballistic Products monthly catalog (c115-2012)and they recommend an 11ga maxi nitro card (.125), a 11ga fiber cushion (1/2 inch) and a 10ga overshot card (.030) for the 12ga Magtech brass shell, and use a large pistol primer.  They leave the powder and shot up to you. They also list other gauges of brass shells with respective component sizes.   They also have a new booket "Reloading Brass Shotshells".  Just a heads up-I'm not connected any way with Ballistic Products.  I just buy from them like anyone else.  Most of this info has already been supplied by various other shooters. Good shooting!
Bob   
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« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2012, 01:19:06 am »

I can't add anything to this thread... but it sure is helpful.

I have a old 12 gauge damascus double barrel, with exposed hammers, that I made into a coach gun...so I want to start loading up some BP paper shot shells over this winter.

I already bought one of those old fashion hand roll crimper tools and the hand tool that will squeeze/seat in the primers.

I still have to cut down about 250 once fired 3-3/4" paper hulls, to fit the gun's shorter chambers...then get to loading them up.
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