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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den  |  The Dark Arts (Moderator: Lucky Irish Tom)  |  Topic: Any suggestions on making combustible cartidges? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Any suggestions on making combustible cartidges?  (Read 41996 times)
hellgate
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« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2006, 08:09:31 pm »

I used to "nitrate" my cig papers with the KNO3 by dipping them into a saturated solution up to but not including the glued edge of the cig paper. After drying I'd use the gummed edge to lick and roll onto the bullet or ball before filling it with powder & twisting the end shut.

For shooting I'd carry a pair of tweezers and a nipple pick.
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« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2006, 08:20:24 pm »

Oh, I didn't know I had to add potassium nitrate. It was my understanding cigarette papers are already nitrated, which makes a cigarette burn uniformly.
Thanks for the tips here. I love this board, there is a ton of knowledge here.
I'll add the tweezers and pick to the possibles bag.

Dave
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« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2006, 08:43:50 pm »

..and iffin yer not super into authenticity, a small can of compressed air from WallyWorld would be handy fer blowin out the chambers.
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« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2006, 09:01:16 pm »

I've used that Wally World compressed air, Cuts.  I peal off the original label and put my own on.  Label says "Dick Dastardly Hot Air". .   Works great to clean the CCD on my digital cameras too.

DD-DLoS
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« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2006, 09:44:43 pm »

Good information here,  but I have a question.

I have a couple hundred paper cartridges pre-made, using Zig-Zag brand papers.   When I shoot them,  I do have to blow out the cylinders every once in a while to clear out the tiny pieces of unburnt paper.

Here is my question:  Before I learned the best way of making thes paper carts. with cig papers,  I bought a "kit" off eBay that included a zip-loc baggie of potassium nitrate.  Can I mix this potassium nitrate with water,  put it into a small spray bottle,  and gently mist this solution onto the couple hundred paper carts that I have already made? (without harming the Pyrodex P that is inside the paper cartridges?).

It would be great if this would completely eliminate the need to blow out the cylinders periodically.

Let me know your thoughts!
John
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hellgate
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« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2006, 10:54:47 pm »

I doubt you could mist the paper adequately to get it to burn without wetting the powder and either creating a mess of wet paper or caking the powder which would affect ignition. I'm assuming they don't unravel when damp. I'd just get the tweezers handy and always do a visual check before ramming in a new cartridge. There is usually no chance of a cook off in a revolver chamber like there can be at the bottom of a long barreled (rifle) muzzle loader but with a paper cartridge there could be an ember in the chamber.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

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« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2006, 12:00:49 pm »

I've used zig-zag papers to make cartridges for my navys and the only problem I've had aside from an occasional slow-fire (quickly solved by poking a hole in the cartridgr after loading with a safety pin) was getting a little twist of paper sticking out the nipple hole after firing. I think this may be partly from a weak mainspring which I'm changing over the winter. Also plan to use CCI Magnum caps to help ignition-T.R
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« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2006, 10:33:25 am »

Some where I have read a series of instructions on making a flat bottom cartridge that has only a single layer of nitrated paper between the powder and cap. It's done on a dowel form. The main body of the paper cartridge is formed around the dowel and then a seperate paper "cup is glued over the end. After drying the author then filled the cup and twisted the top closed over the ball. When it was rammed, the excess paper was cut off as the lead ring is cut. Some day I'm going to try it but its a ways down on the list.
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« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2006, 12:31:51 pm »

The flat bottomed cartridges do look slick. A bit more work than I have time for, though. The bottom shouldn't be a player, because the flash holes in the cylinder are at an angle, hitting the charge where the paper is thin, and not the twisted end.
If I had the time, I would make the flat bottomed ones, just for style points.
Instructions and pics are found here http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=326.0

Dave
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« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2006, 12:39:41 pm »

Howdy Guys, I guess this is the place I need to be to ask some questions. I jus recently got a .54cal Sharps for a B-day/X-Mas present and it's a breech loader using paper cartridges. Now I have some expierence with black powder (cap n ball revolvers and a couple of sidelocks) but I have never tried paper cartridge, and would greatly appreciate any help I can get. The Sharps was a used one and did not come with any accessories or manual.
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« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2006, 04:08:48 pm »

Hi Captain. The cartridges we're discussing here are not the same as for a Sharps.
Dixie gun works has a kit for making the cartridges you need. KA0700 is the part number.
Maybe this question asked at the Buffalo rifle forum http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/board,77.0.html could help you more.

Update-I just found this http://www.jesseshunting.com/articles/guns/category16/35.html have you seen it?.

Dave
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« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2006, 10:05:00 pm »

make my combustable sharps cartridges with medium silkspan soaked in salt peter. have flat bottom so the block doesn't cut of cart. you can load and un load with out spilling powder all over. use waterglass to glue cart. together and to glue bullet to cart. sometimes dip bullet in to lube to help keep fowling down a little bit. have been making my sharps carts. this way for my 1863 rifle and carbine for over 15 years. never had a misfire. use about 1 table spoon of saltpeter to 1 1/2 cup of warm water. soak silkspan and let dry in bath room. then cut to shape and roll on brass mandrel. load aprox. 60 grains 3 f and shoot. gotzguns
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« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2006, 11:50:26 pm »

Excellent post, gotzguns. Is there any way you could do up some pictures? I for one, would like to see the whole salt peter dance.

Dave
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« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2006, 01:57:18 pm »

 Grin thanks for the help, what size brass mandrel do you use and any suggestions on where to find the salt peter?
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« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2006, 12:13:43 am »

More links. Hope these help.

http://www.berdansharpshooters.com/care.html

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/firearms/britain/enfield/enfieldcartridge07.htm

http://www.berdansharpshooters.com/usssbb/viewtopic.php?p=654&sid=0f308a0f29f29f5b83362cced2f67a55

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hellgate
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« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2006, 12:48:16 am »

Saltpeter source: go to any decent sized GARDEN CENTER and buy a box of STUMP REMOVER. It is KNO3 (potassium nitrate, i.e. saltpeter) for $1-$2 per pound. Dissolve some into water for a saturated solution to dip the paper in. It will burn more completely after drying. However, this is not like nitrocellulose where you use acids etc to nitrate the paper and it burns quite rapidly.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

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« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2006, 09:24:19 am »

This might work.

Big bore plastic malt straws.  Cig papers. Salt peter.

Form salt peter wetted paper over straw and set aside to dry wet end up.  A board with nails holds 'em just rite.
After drying, put powder in straw to fill the paper cups.
Pull out the straw.
Seal the paper with a twist.

When loading,  insert powder filled paper in chamber twist up and seat the bullet on top.

Might be quick and easy and just might work.

DD-DLoS
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« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2006, 03:02:36 pm »

 Cool Thanks for all the help guys, you've given me a ton of the right info. It shouldn't be long before I have that sharps out and see what it can do.  MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT
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« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2007, 12:02:24 am »

 Grin well guys I tried some rolling papers(job 1.5's), used the whole paper and tried a few practice rounds(a couple with maxi balls a couple with round ball) they both worked jus fine and I would like to thank everyone for the help. now if the weather would warm up( we're at close to zero here) so i could get out and do some shooting
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« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2007, 12:29:51 am »

DD;  Thats a neat trick with the straws.  I WILL try it!
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« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2011, 01:24:01 pm »

I know this thread is old but i have a further development for those interested,.......before I kick this off again I would like to say I have yet to test this as a cartridge!! I have nitrated these,... burnt them,... and formed rounds with them so don't spend a lot of time making 1K rounds before this is tested further........make 20 or so and shoot them before going further,.....This being said,............

I was doing some Top Secret work,.....No really,....and I thought about using coffee filters for combustables,.....I mean think about it,....it's lite almost woven paper that is supposed to get wet and still remain strong enough to move coffee grinds from the pot to the waste can.......
This means it has pockets to retain the saltpetre and is very sturdy to soak in solution, dry, and make cups for cartridges from........
Below I've posted three videos of some burn tests.....nothing special,....just more to think on....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgb5znSE56c[/youtube] 



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aGHdMwfVh4[/youtube]



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGC4mJwlsuo[/youtube]
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« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2012, 06:22:12 pm »

Steel Horse,............Label info is headed your way,........the box is 3"w x 1 5/8"H x 3/4"D,........I just knot both ends of a string so it's 2"long and poke an end in the box, it's just for looks.
I cut the boxes open so I can use them again........

Hi Sgt.

Is there any possibility that you could also send me that info?  BTW what did you find to use for the box material?  Thank for all your great info.  I have been shooting BP for over 40 years but have never tried making cartidges and would like to try doing it.

Thanks
Mike
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« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2016, 08:49:46 pm »

Hi All,

As this is my first post here, I'll try and keep it brief. 

Thanks for all the great information!

I've been a Black Powder shooter for a bunch of years and am just now working my way into combustible cartridges so this is like manna from Heaven.

Jay
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