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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den  |  The Dark Arts (Moderator: Lucky Irish Tom)  |  Topic: Annealing Brass 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Annealing Brass  (Read 22569 times)
Steel Horse Bailey
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« on: February 14, 2006, 01:21:04 pm »


Howdy y'all!

Some time ago (and it may have been on TFS) someone explained annealing - but NOT the old method where the cases were 1/2 immersed in water, heated until red, then tipped over.

This was a better system (as I could see it) that didn't heat up the cases so hot.

Could someone re-post this info and Mr. Moderator, Cuts, could you make it a sticky?!

I tried the search feature, but either it's gone, or the words "annealing brass" don't find what info I need.

Thanks!

Jeff  "Steel Horse Bailey"

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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2006, 02:54:07 pm »

What I have found is that brass gets annealed at a much lower temp than most folks think. I use a propane and heat them until they JUST BEGIN TO CHANGE OVER TO RED ! Not red, not at all...in fact when they start to get a "gold" hue to them that is enough. Moe than that and I start seeing an excess of split cases crop up in my reloading.

Steel Horse, this is now a sticky! Grin
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2006, 03:58:17 pm »

 The temperature that cartridge brass must be heated for annealling is 762 degrees.  I use 765.
 I don't bother with torches, too complicated. I use my lead furnace and a casting thermometer. Heat the lead to 765. Get a bucket of water, clear of the furnace. A cup of cheap oil is handy, dip the case mouth into the oil to keep the lead from sticking to the case. Dip the casemouth into the oil, shake off the excess, dip the case mouth into the melted lead. Rifle rounds can be help in the hand, better use pliers for handgun cases. Watch the brass, there will be a color change, the brass will turn a bit darker. When it does, drop the case into the bucket. Some ice in the water means I don't have to stop and change the water.
 Once I have everything set up and I get into a rhythm I can do a case every five seconds or so.
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gmatov
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2006, 01:18:32 am »

I hate to disagree with you experts, but you are not annealing, you are hardening, when you heat and quench. If it is an air hardening asteel, heating and allowing to cool will harden'

If it is brass, you heat and allow to cool naturally. it will be dead soft. Tip over into water, you have just hardened it again, or more than it was.

Cheers,

George
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2006, 12:59:36 pm »

George,

The chrystiline structure of brass is different than steel, quenching it does not harden it like it does steel, except in cases of much more severe heating of the brass..gotta reach much higher temps with brass b'fore it will quench harden.

The idea behind dropping the brass into water is to stop the anneal before it leaches down into the case head area of the cartridge and softens it too. This is why factory annealed brass is done by standing it in water also. I don't know if this is really that important, but I figger better safe than sorry! My method is to hold the case head in a pair of heavy pliers, which act as a heat sink, and rotate the brass as I'm heating the case mouth with a torch. As soon as it begins to go over to "gold" I drop it in water. This has worked very well for me for many years. I would use the pan and water method, but the water is such an efficiant heat sink that it takes a lot more propane to reach annealing point, and it is harder to get and even distrabution of heat around the individual case mouths.

Actually, this another area wherein what works well for one person might not seem as good to another....Part of the fun of being a BP shooter! Grin
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2006, 01:43:43 pm »

If you want to know what the proper color looks like just get a new unfired milatary round and look at it, they don't polish after annealing.
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2006, 02:01:59 pm »

Aint ya gotta admit it this place is reeeel educational Roll Eyes
 
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2006, 08:54:54 pm »

I'll defer to you on this. Seems to me, though, that standing in water should be enough to keep the heat from sinking into the rest of the case, as well as cooling it quickly enough .

Cheers,

George
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2006, 10:13:46 pm »

Quote
Seems to me, though, that standing in water should be enough to keep the heat from sinking into the rest of the case, as well as cooling it quickly enough .

You are very right about that! But it take so much longer and uses so much more fuel that I prefer the more direct approach, plus the rotation helps give me more even anneal. Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2006, 02:26:37 pm »

Here's another method to keep from heating the brass too far down toward the head.  I hold the case in my fingers and rotate it as I am heating it right over the pan of water.  When the neck color is correct I just drop it in the water.  If it gets so hot that you can't hold it, drop it in the water and do that particular case over again.  This works on longer cases but not on short ones as the torch will burn your fingers (the voice of experience speaking again !!!).  You might give this a try.

HHW
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2006, 01:54:58 pm »

I use the propane torch/standing in water method but I do it in a darkened room so I can see the dull red sooner.
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« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2006, 03:58:41 pm »

Will this same method work on shotshells? If so how much of the neck needs to be heated? Also do you have to do this every time you shoot them?


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Steel Horse Bailey
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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2006, 12:04:53 pm »

Howdy, Litl Rooster Moosemilker!

I think that annealing only has to be done once.  Most cases won't last long enough to have to be done again.  Montana's brass shotgun shells probably won't have to be done unless you are putting a roll crimp on those shells.  And that opens up another can'o'worms.  Most BP loads won't blow out the crimp and it can affect your patterns., tho a few say it doesn't really affect the patterns much at CAS distances.

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SEE MY PHOTOS: http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/m1a1mstrgn/
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« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2009, 10:21:42 am »

Gents, actually ... to anneal brass cases, heat the mouth to 660 to 665 degrees Fahrenheit (a blue/green color)  Do not heat to any color red
Here's a good read on the subject:
Technique: Annealing Custom Cartridge Cases
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« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2009, 12:28:39 pm »

Gents, actually ... to anneal brass cases, heat the mouth to 660 to 665 degrees Fahrenheit (a blue/green color)  Do not heat to any color red
<snip>

John Boy, I've been try to get that one across to pards fer years!!!! But you always see some feller recommending "heat 'til it glows"! 'Bout drives me ta distraction! I finally gave up, let em learn the hard way. Lips Sealed
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Steel Horse Bailey
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« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2009, 12:39:17 pm »

Thanks for the correction!
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SEE MY PHOTOS: http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b70/m1a1mstrgn/
NCOWS #1919 for Life, SASS Life #27463, NRA Life, Honourable Master of the Black Arts, GAF#98, SBSS, WARTHOG, STORM, American Legion Post # 495
*and a few other organizations*
F.&A.M. - Wayne Guthrie Lodge #753 *** Hiram's Rangers #105
(former) US Army M1 & M1A1 Tank Master Gunner
AKA - Jeff Bailey  A Three-Percenter & Sheepdog

Take me out to the black, tell 'em I aint comin' back. Burn the land; boil the sea: you can't take the sky from me. Have no place I must be; since I found Serenity:  you can't take the sky from me.
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« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2011, 06:54:02 pm »

Aint ya gotta admit it this place is reeeel educational Roll Eyes
 
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