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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  SCORRS (Moderator: Bull Schmitt)  |  Topic: .44 Remington Conversion-FINISHED! 02/05/2006 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: .44 Remington Conversion-FINISHED! 02/05/2006  (Read 17600 times)
Ottawa Creek Bill
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« on: January 12, 2006, 04:32:48 pm »


some of you saw pictures of this project as it was started, here is the finished Remington .44 conversion I did for my son. I cut and finished the cylinder this week, chambered it in .44 colt. I made it from scratch and 20/1000 ths. bigger then the stock Pieta cylinder because the stock cylinders are too thin (paper thin) where the cylinder stops are cut to re-chamber.
The close up is of the loading gate showing the checkering and the ball indent. This is about as close as you can get to an original remington conversion. The ejector rod and housing are dovetailed into the frame as were the originals, and the ejector rod is also checkered per original pistols. Hope you like it.

Bill Proctor


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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2006, 05:08:53 pm »

Looks terrific Bill!  Please keep the pics of your progress coming.

By the way, Here is a pic of my Remington with the Kirst set-up installed that I got from you.  Thanks again for the good deal!


John

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Oldelm
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2006, 05:31:48 pm »

OC Bill,.....Nice work , there!
I like the fact that you're gunsmithing these just like the originals. I've always wanted to see a closeup of just how they dovetailed that ejector rod housing tube onto the frame. I don't have McDowell's book, but was told there are some pics in there showing that. Do you have any closeup pics you'd like to post showing more detail on that housing and keeper spring/detent?

The only pic I ever found online is this one (middle pic in the group) that shows the recess made in frame just in front of the cylinder.
http://www.armchairgunshow.com/images/AZ-R182.jpg   

The ejector rod housings on the originals are unique, although they call for more milling and gunsmithing than , say, Kirst's,...but Kirst had a good idea when he created his ejector rod housing entegral to the cylinder pin.

John,.......your's looks mighty nice too!  Good work!
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Ottawa Creek Bill
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2006, 06:07:27 pm »

Oldelm,
I've had McDowell's book since it first came out in 1997, and thats the information I used when doing these. The book also has several pages on the Rogers & Spencers. I've used the book to make a couple of 1860 Colt Richards, made the way they are supposed to be with the rear end of the cylinder under that little lip (.0310) on the recoil ring. I'm doing a 1860 first model richards for myself after I finish my son's pistol. I've already got the Cylinder and recoil ring made.

johnrtse,

Glad you like it, your pistol looks nice. I just wanted something a little more like Remington actually did them, but the Kirst stuff is great. I like the finish on our gun. The finsh on this pistol looks like the old style nickel plating they had in the 19th century. I was going to blue it, but I may leave it like it is. Using the birchwood Casey blue remover is the best way to go, you don't have to remove any metal and it is real easy to use. When I get the loading gate installed I'll post another pic, should have the ejector rod finished at that time too.

Bill
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2006, 01:17:47 pm »

Is the loading trough cut different for the 44 then the 45 conversion? I was thinking about purchasing a Kirst 44 cylinder and use the 44 Rem ammo from River Junction so I could either shoot the 44 or 45 Scofield in my Remmy without the loading trough. Later I am thinking about getting one with the loading gate.
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Ottawa Creek Bill
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2006, 03:16:54 pm »

Pappy,
This is not a Kirst Conversion, it is one that I did and machined all the parts myself, but to answer your question, I think the Kirst 44 cylinder should work just fine if your gun is already set up the five shot 45 cylinder.

Bill
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Halfway Creek Charlie
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2006, 04:02:43 pm »

Pappy,
The Kirst 45 and the 44 Rem. cylinders are interchangeable. the recoil rings are the same for any of the Kirst conversions per make, (Pietta, Uberti) they will not interchange between makers. I'm getting ready to send for a gated shield and an extra44 Rem. cylinder, as I already have the new ejector assy. My gunslinger 4 3/4 will probably just get the 44 Rem. drop in conversion.

I'm sold on the 44 Rem. cartridge!
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2006, 07:19:52 am »

Charlie you had to go and say that. Ok so now I'm saving up for a .44Rem Kirst then a .45LC Kirst...Maybe the second one could be gated. But I'm in a hurry for the first one...LoL!
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2006, 01:39:05 pm »

Very Cool!   Cool  It also looks just like the originals I have seen kicking around gun shows, only its brand new!!!
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Ottawa Creek Bill
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2006, 08:34:17 am »

Oldelm,
I'll scan them for you this afternoon from McDowell's book and give you the measurement too.

Bill
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2006, 11:33:09 am »

Howdy Bill,....thanks so much!!  Grin  Grin  You'll make my day!!

You could e-mail them to me for full viewing of  scans if you like. But I'm sure other folks here would like to see them if you post them here. Whatever is most convenient,....thanks!

I should try and find McDowell's book again,.... it isn't cheap,.....but sure comes in handy when doing this kinda research about the originals.
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Ottawa Creek Bill
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2006, 05:06:21 pm »

Oldelm,
Here is a close up of the ejector housing and rod. The rod measures 4-3/16 inches long and is 0.180 in diameter overall except where the hot stamped checkered pattern is. It tapers down to 0.162. The other photo is a closeup of the housing. I mill mine out of solid bar stock and they have a 3/8" flat base. I use a 60% carbide dovetail cutter to cut the recess in the frame. They are a tight fit as the ram rod screw is part of the dove tail and is tightened up into the housing once it is installed.

Bill



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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2006, 06:06:39 pm »

Bill,.......thanks for posting those pics with dimensions. That helps me understand these originals a little better. So,...the housing is one piece, drilled through and shaped to fit as sliding dovetail joint and held by screw? I like that checkering on the handle tab.
How deep is the dovetailed housing into the frame?
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Ottawa Creek Bill
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2006, 07:44:16 am »

Old Elm,
Its the same screw that holds the loading lever and rammer in the gun. When I milled the dove tail into the receiver, the screw is left in and is part of the dove tail in that it recieves a slight notch by the cutter. I am going to make the spring and detent for the housing today and checker the ejector head. I'll post a pic here when finished.

Bill
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« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2006, 12:28:11 am »

Thanks , Bill.
 Good work,....and good info.  I'll have to file it away in my "Remington Conversions" folder,..... Wink
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Ottawa Creek Bill
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« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2006, 12:42:02 pm »

TTT
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« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2006, 12:28:13 am »

Looks really good, Bill. A big thumbs up to that one. Cool
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« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2006, 12:41:40 am »

Looks incredible Bill- Great job!!

John
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Ottawa Creek Bill
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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2006, 07:21:27 am »

Thanks All,
I would have finished this project much earlier, but in between starting and finishing it, I converted two Rogers and Spencers for a friend of mine. I am going to buy a Euro Arms or Uberti .58 within the next week or so to convert they are more accurate in their profile then the Pietta. I am in the middle of doing a Richards first model 1860 conversion so it will be a month or so before I start the new Remington.

By the way, the only thing that identifies this as a Pietta is the serial number, all other markings have been removed and the grip backstrap and frame altered to match an original. The Piettas are a little cumbersome when compared to an original and you can see minute diferences when compared next to one, but for the money you can't beat them.
I understand the Euro Arms 58 is a dead ringer, but I've never seen one. Maybe if one of you all own one you can give me some info on it, or if you know anyone that has a used Euro Arms for sale.

Bill
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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2006, 08:38:20 am »

OB,
The Euroarms/Armi San Paolo(Euroarms was ASP before they moved) are pretty close to the original Remingtion Old Model Army(Threads on the bbl are covered up. and they feel great especially in my small hands. I liked the one I handled and shot so well that I'm probably going to go that route. I just bought one off the net it should be here end of the week. I have Pietta's.

Oldelm has shown us that R& D Uberti Conversion Cylinders work in the Euroarms(at least the one he has does).
My Kirst 44 Rem Konvertor didn't fit the Armi San Paolo/Euroarms that I shot(cylinder too long). That gun felt like a '51 Colt Navy to me, which I consider the best Colt ever made for heft, feel and balance.

I'd love to have the bucks to let you build me a conversion., but I'll have to stick with the Kirst's.

I'm hoping that Kirst 44 Rem Uberti Konvertor fits the Euro arms '58. If so then there are a couple more Euroarms '58's in my future and I'll find new homes for my Pietta's. I have an older Uberti Revolving Carbine coming this week also. If the Uberti Konverter fits the Euro's then They will switch out between the pistola's and the carbine. Euroarms/Armi San Paolo cylinders will not interchange with Uberti '58's.

 
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« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2006, 12:07:20 pm »

yep pards with all the conversion talk ..and charlie with his 44 brass .. hum. my world of caps and balls is getting shakey .. this would mean no more crisco stained pants and shirts , my wife will think i`m cheating .. Grin
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« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2006, 12:09:08 pm »

Hi Bill,...it took me awhile to figure out what you meant by TTT,....duh!!  But I finally looked at the beginning of this thread and saw the pics,.....real nice! You are a very talented gunsmith, to say the least.

Quote
I cut and finished the cylinder this week, chambered it in .44 colt. I made it from scratch and 20/1000 ths. bigger then the stock Pieta cylinder because the stock cylinders are too thin (paper thin) where the cylinder stops are cut to re-chamber.

I'm wondering,...what is the finished diameter of the new cylinder you made for it? The reason I ask is that I  just picked up an earlier Nickel Plated  Ken Howell '58 Rem conversion chambered in .44-40 , with 5 chamber cyl. rather than 6.  The cylinder measures 1.618" in dia.  With 5 chambers, the cylinder stops fall somewhat between the chambers.  I haven't figured out yet just what frame was used, because it was completely defarbed , with only "R&D Beloit Wis USA" and "Black Powder Only" and  R&D serial #.  I think it's a Pietta, though,....because Uberti and Armi San Paolo grips don't match up to it.  I'm thinking about de-plating it, because I much more prefer the blue steel finish.

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Ottawa Creek Bill
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« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2006, 01:33:35 pm »

Oldelm,
Man that is a nice looking pistola....I don't think I would touch the finish at all. As a matter of fact my son is going to buy some of the fake ivory grips from River Junction Trade company (they have real ivory dust in them $69.00), and once we have them fitted to the frame, we are going to have his pistol plated in an old brushed nichel finish.
The cylinder I made is 1.615.5/1000 snths in diameter, real close to yours. R&D probably chambered you pistol with five shots because of the larger case size and rim of the 44/40. The .44 colt rim is only .483 so it fits nicely.
Oldelm, was this a used purchase? The reason I ask is, this pistol may have been built for someone in that specific caliber probabaly to match a rifle since it is not a standard caliber for those old Remington five shot Army's. Most of them ( I may be wrong on this) were .46 cal. Still, a nice looking firearm...

Bill
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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2006, 02:15:08 pm »

Howdy Pards/Pardettes.

Ottawa Creek Bill; Sir that is some nice work, must be some home workshop you got there.  I would really like to see some pictures of the Rogers&Spencer pistols you converted.  Those would be some one of a kind unique pistols.  Again, that is real good work.

Regards, Beaumont 
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Ottawa Creek Bill
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« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2006, 03:19:28 pm »

E.R,
Here you go: The large photo show the guns prior to distressing (made to look used), the two smaller photos are of the guns after they were made to look as if they had about 8 to 10 years of holster wear and use (done ny owner), and he did a fantastic job. These pistols are in .44 Colt and are extremely accurate, I've got a pretty good work shop with all the right tools Grin  These were copied from McDowell's book on Colt conversions.

Bill
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