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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Powder Room - CAS reloading (Moderator: Professor Marvel)  |  Topic: Looking for a Loading Tool 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Looking for a Loading Tool  (Read 1826 times)
Bunk
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« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2018, 01:48:56 pm »

Mike,
Let me put in my two cents worth on reloading.
First and foremost get a good reloading manual and read all of it. I cut my reloading teeth on the Phil Sharp book A Complete Guide to Reloading which is unfortunately ot of print and the powders used are also long gone, but the how to and how it works and how it is made are still excellent information.
Lyman makes a good book because there is a lot of lead bullet information.
Sorry, but loading data from some one who is not equipped with a ballistic lab is worthless and possibly dangerous. Take those loads with a grain of salt and and check suggested loads with  a loading manual.
Good luck and have fun
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk
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Professor Marvel
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« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2018, 02:57:27 pm »

I used to say Pyrodex and 777 were ok if sufficient cleaning was done.

I have changed my mind about 777 , and updated the sticky on the Powder room:

update:

hogden changed their site structure, the old links are no longer valid, and they have made it increasingly more difficult
to find the SDS sheets -
here is a new link for pyrodex

https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2018-pyrodex-sds-new.pdf

and triple 7

2017:
https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/triple-seven-sds-sheet-2017.pdf

snip---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Section 3:  Composition/information on ingregients
Component                       CAS-Number       Weight %
Charcoal                                16291-96-6      10%
Sodium Benzoate                    532-32-1       10%
Potassium Nitrate                 7757-79-1       30%
Potassium Perchlorate        7778-74-7       30%
Dicyaniamide                         461-58-5         10%
Dextrin                                     9004-53-9       10%

Note:  Other ingredients are trade secrets, but can be disclosed per 29CFR1910.1200(i)

Section 4:  First-aid measures
Ingestion:
* if vomiting occurs, turn patient on side to maintain open airway.  Do not induce vomiting.
   contact a Poison control center for advice on treatment, if unsure.
Eye Contact:
* flush eye with water for at least 15 minutes.

Section 5:  Fire-fighting measures
Extinguishing media:
* For unattended fire prevention, water can be used to disburse burning Triple Seven®.  Triple Seven® has
its own oxygen supply; flame smothering techniques are ineffective.  Water may be used on unburnt Triple
Seven® to retard further spread of fire.

Special Procedures:
* Triple Seven® is extremely flammable and may deflagrate.  Get away and evacuate the area.
Unusual Hazards:
* As with any pyrotechnic, if under confinement or piled in moderate quantities, Triple Seven® can explode.  
Toxic fumes, such as sulfur dioxide are emitted while burning.
Inhalation;
* remove patient from area to fresh air.
Skin Contact:
* wash the affected area with copius amounts of water.  Some persons may be sensitive to p
endsnip---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aug 2018:
https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2018-pyrodex-sds-new.pdf

https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2018-tripleseven-sds-new.pdf

-------
notice that in 2018 they changed the list to be deliberately vague -
 ie: both potassium nitrate and potassium perchlorate are listed as *15-40%  ...

*In accordance with paragraph (i) of the OSHA Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR 1910.1200) ,
the specific chemical identity or exact wieght % has been withheld as a trade secret.
--------

Worse, they have deliberately left out  Dextrin and Dicyaniamide   in the latest triple 7 SDS "as a trade secret".
I call bull.
 they don't really have that  many competitors, and the "full disclosure" has been published since  before year 2000.

the 10% Dicyaniamide is an important ommission.
I myself am wondering what it does when burned.
I did my best with reading the chemistry tomes on
- Dicyaniamide
- Dicyandiamide
- Cyanoguanidine
- guanidine
- calcium cyanamide
and more
and came away more confused. Now I remember why I nearly failed chemistry
 

I am both intrigued and dismayed at the level of obfuscation.
Makes one wonder what they are trying to hide, and why.
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« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2018, 05:39:57 pm »

Ok real black powder it will be then. I read that the Swiss powder is best, any truth to that??
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Bunk
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« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2018, 09:56:48 pm »

Mike M
Swiss is good stuff, a bit pricey but high quality. If you can't get real black powder I would recommend American Pioneer Powder, Jim Shockeys Gold, or BlackMZ all being the same stuff. It is a completely different formulation that the "P" stuff and the residue is about like real black powder and easier to clean. Friend Coffinmaker got me on it and I like it and use it in my .44-40 and snubby percussion revolvers.  Presently on the bench are a bunch of primed empty 12gauge shells to be loaded with APP and we will see how that goes.
Unlike Black Powder it is compatible with petroleum lubes a handy side note.
Welcome to the dark side have fun make smoke.
Yr Obt' Svt'
Bunk
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Professor Marvel
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« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2018, 12:17:05 am »

Mike M
Swiss is good stuff, a bit pricey but high quality. If you can't get real black powder I would recommend American Pioneer Powder, Jim Shockeys Gold, or BlackMZ all being the same stuff. It is a completely different formulation that the "P" stuff and the residue is about like real black powder and easier to clean. Friend Coffinmaker got me on it and I like it and use it in my .44-40 and snubby percussion revolvers.  Presently on the bench are a bunch of primed empty 12gauge shells to be loaded with APP and we will see how that goes.
Unlike Black Powder it is compatible with petroleum lubes a handy side note.
Welcome to the dark side have fun make smoke.
Yr Obt' Svt'
Bunk

not only that but you can get BlackMZ at Sportsmans Warehouse for $10 a bottle!

yhs
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Bunk
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« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2018, 11:35:31 am »

Prtof. Marvel,
Unfortunately the only Sportsman Warehouse near me folded up several years ago.
Coffinmaker urged me to try APP in what ever wrapper it uses and was well satisfied with it.
But I mostly deal with Powder Inc. (shameless plug) and a stay with real Gun Powder.
My shooting is slowing down due to old age and general debility but the range behind my house gets plenty of work out.
And yes I would as soon shoot stainless steel balls and clean with battery acid as use the "P" stuff.
From my brown shoe army days cleaning rifles after those chlorate primers gave me enough of that racket to last a lifetime.
Thank you Winchester for developing those "Staynless" primers and caps.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk
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MikeM.
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« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2018, 01:51:02 pm »

Ok guys , I’m looking at die sets and am wondering if I need the regular RCBS 44-40 dies, RCBS Cowboy dies, or Hornady Cowboy dies??   Any opinions on this ??
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scrubby2009
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« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2018, 11:57:11 pm »

I use the plain RCBS dies and a Lee crimp die when assembling smokeless loads. Trailboss and real Black get full cases, so I don't "extra step" with the crimp on those. All under Bear Creek moly-lubed castings.
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« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2018, 04:08:13 pm »

Ok guys , I just wanted to do a follow up post on my progress. Turns out that 8gr of Unique and a 200gr .427 fnfp lead ACME bullet loaded in my Winchester 1882 loading tool is very accurate out of my Uberti/ Cimarron 1873 SRC!!!!
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MikeM.
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« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2018, 02:17:07 pm »

Filled the magazine tube on my rifle full and got some telescoping on a few rounds. Do you guys think it would help if I went to a .430 bullet??
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Coal Creek Griff
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« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2018, 05:33:40 pm »

This is a common problem, generally related to neck sizing and crimp.  The solution is sometimes complicated, but it has been discussed in these pages before.  I don't believe that a larger bullet size will be the solution for you.

CC Griff
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pony express
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« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2018, 07:47:58 pm »

Does the bullet you are using have a crimp groove? And since you are using the vintage tool, how tight does the bullet fit into the case neck, and does it produce a good crimp?

Also, loading with Black Powder will prevent telescoping, since the bullet can't go down with the powder already under compression(which was probably how your loading tool was meant to be used)
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MikeM.
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« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2018, 08:33:02 pm »

I think it produced a pretty decent crimp since this only happened to a couple of rounds. The bullets go into the neck really easily and this is why I thought I would try the .430 ones and see if they are tighter. That makes sense on the black powder by the way.....I’m going to give that a try too. Thanks Guys
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pony express
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« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2018, 10:34:20 pm »

OK, , I've never used one of the vintage tools like you're using, so maybe I have it wrong....but, the way I understand them, they don't resize a case the way a modern die set does, where you first size the case down , then expand to just let the bullet seat. Don't they just basically seat  bullet, crimp, and resize all in one operation? It seems like, if that's the case, then you'll never really get the same neck tension as a modern set, but primarily depend on a strong crimp to hold everything together.


Maybe when using that tool, you'll have to visually check each one for a good crimp, and maybe try pushing the bullet against something, just to check.
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MikeM.
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« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2018, 10:44:14 pm »

Exactly, yes that’s what im thinking too. I plan to use modern dies most of the time but thought it would be neat to use this old tool a little too.
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MikeM.
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« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2018, 07:56:12 am »

need a couple of questions on black powder answered before I try to use it. First, is black powder measured by weight like my smokeless or by volume like my cap and ball gun?? Second, FF or FFF ?? Third, somebody recommend a load they have had good luck with (using a 200gr bullet),,,,,
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Professor Marvel
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« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2018, 08:27:53 pm »

need a couple of questions on black powder answered before I try to use it. First, is black powder measured by weight like my smokeless or by volume like my cap and ball gun??

by volume
One can buy a scoop. or make one from a cutdown cartridge case and a piece of heavy wire.
very historical, that.

measure as much as will fit under the bullet.

either FF or 3F your choice.

hope this helps
prf mvl
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~~~~~Professor Algernon Horatio Ubiquitous Marvel The First~~~~~~
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Professor Marvel's
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« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2018, 09:09:58 pm »

Couldn’t I use my powder measure for my cap and ball pistol or maybe even make a spout for my powder flask ??
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