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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Major 2, Capt Quirk)  |  Topic: Cap & Ball without wads or lube? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Cap & Ball without wads or lube?  (Read 3570 times)
PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2018, 08:45:00 pm »

Well, my winter has been far from "meaningless".

I've done a lot of bullet casting, lots of reloading and I shoot weekly at our indoor range, mostly IDPA. I x-country ski or snowshoe daily, sometimes both. I intend to come out of this winter fitter than I went in as I hope to to a "Dirty Mudder" event come spring.

As I was mounting the snow plow on my Taco today, one of my dogs was raising Cain over something. I went to investigate (with a corn broom in my hand!) and he was nose to nose with Miz moose and her calf. She would advance, the dog would retreat and the game went on until she got bored and stepped into the DEEP snow where the dog could not go.

I've found their beds in the snow all over our property and the surrounding country. They winter on this side of the lake where we have lots of willows.

I spent the morning plowing our driveway and those of several neighbours. One of them is on her own as her husband is now an invalid and has to be taken to the hospital on a regular basis.  She has livestock to feed. She pulls hay to them on a plastic sled and refers to me as "her angel in a red truck" for the snow removal I do.

I have the means and the ability to be of service, and it is my pleasure to do so.

Anyhoo - backattheranch - "cap guns" are both a challenge and a joy to shoot, grease, no grease, wads or no wads. You have to work to get them to perform and function through a match, but it sure beats 'pop-gunning".
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« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2018, 02:15:09 pm »

AARRAAAAAAGH!!   Undecided

IT'S SNOWING AGAIN!!  At'll teach me to run off at the blabber fingers.
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PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2018, 03:27:01 pm »

Yeah, we got some more in the forecast as well. We're running out of space to push it.

Back to what Gabe Law was saying about snowshoeing .....

Some "talk" Mountain Man, others "play" Mountain Man. We get to LIVE Mountain Man! In my case, all I have to do is step out the door and I'm likely to run into a moose. If I cross the lake and go into the big tress, I'm alone, and I mean ALONE. Same applies to the Crown land all around me.

Any time of the year, if you go down, you're on your own. I usually have my dogs with me except when I am hunting. I give my wife a rough idea as to where I'm going, but I often change my mind enroute. We don't have cell service out here so unless someone is a good tracker, I'm on my own.

This has never been a concern as it never occurs to me that anything could go wrong. "Yea, though I walk in the valley of death ....".
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Dick Dastardly
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« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2018, 11:37:08 am »

Ho PJ,

We all have to go sometime and passing in surroundings chosen by you is at least better than going in a hospital bed with tubes and needles stuck everywhere.

My bride passed here with me at her side.  It's the way she wanted it.  So, when I cash my stack I could only hope to go as peacefully.

DD-MDA
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PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2018, 12:38:24 pm »

We're a way off topic, but being aware of our mortality is never a mistake.

I've been told that I have a 'death wish' because of some of the things I've done. My response - "What's the worse thing that could happen?" Reply - "You could die." My response - "I can live with that. Why can't you?"

I have friends who have always 'played it safe'. Three are well overweight, one is diabetic (as a result of obesity), two have been involved in bad MV accidents and suffered badly because of obesity, one drinks and smokes despite a history of heart problems, etc. etc.

One of my work mates didn't have a driver's licence as he thought it was too dangerous on the road. One day he was killed waiting for the bus when a vehicle jumped the curb.

Right now I'm as I type this, I'm watching my dogs have a nose to nose with Miz Moose and her calf not 50 yds away. It's snowing lightly and looks like a scene from a Xmas card. They've been having a stand off for the past 45 minutes. She interrupts her feeding on willow twigs every once in awhile to make a feint charge and goes back to feeding.

Right now the moose are standing in the driveway feeding on the willows lining the road. The dogs will not approach them closer than 15-20 yards.

I could put an end to it by walking out and the moose will fade into the forest, but I'm enjoying the scene - life in the Cariboo.
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"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
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PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2018, 01:31:58 pm »

Just when I didn't think it could get any better - it did!

I went out to draw the dog away from the moose and she charged! I guess she was fed up with being harassed by the dog who was emboldened by my presence.
This is the 2nd time I've had the experience. The first time a few years back, I had my 50-70 carbine in my hands and she turned away 15 yds from me. This time I was bare handed.

She didn't have her head down like the other moose, but knocked me ass over tea kettle. Why she didn't stomp me when I was down, I don't know. The Grace of God yet again in my life? I guess she made her point and that was it.

I've got a sore spot on my left thigh, but no bruising. I think she caught me with her fore leg. It happened in a blur and all I could do was to turn sideways so as not to take the hit face on.

I limped away and carried on walking the dogs. Miz Moose and her calf took the opportunity to make good their escape.

How do I feel about it? Well, that's about as close to death as I've been for a while, but compared to the icy chill of being diagnosed with the "Big C'' eight years ago, it was just an exciting episode. I don't blame the moose for protecting her calf and I don't blame the dog for protecting his territory.

I'm now in a select group of people who can say that they've been charged and knocked down by a moose and lived to tell about it.

Life is good .....
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Dick Dastardly
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« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2018, 01:32:59 pm »

Chainfires are generally not fatal.  They are more dangerous to someone standing beside you.  As already said, we face greater risks getting to and from a match than we do at the match.  Life is uncertain.  Eat dessert first.

The lube in the lube groves of Big LubeŽLLC C&B bullets helps seal the chambers better than wads or over ball smears.  The lube is held captive between the driving bands and properly lube/sized, the bullets make the chambers water proof from the exit ends.  Not only are multiple chamber discharges avoided, but guns thus loaded are more reliable in wet/rainy conditions.

DD-MDA
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2018, 02:15:02 pm »

DDD speaks the TRUTH.  Chain Fire is not a lethal phenomenon.  Exciting??  Yes.  Surprising??  Yes.  Will you need to change yer shorts??  Probably.  His remarks about the chamber sealing qualities of "Big Lube" bullets be spot on  (Shameless Plug of EPP UG bullets).  They do haul a Butt Load Roll Eyes  of Luby stuff with em down the bore. 

I shoot the EPP UG - 36 as Cast.  The EPP UG - 45 needs the Luber/Sizer.

Smedley  Grin
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Rooster Ron Wayne
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Lube your Balls & Cap your Nipples ~ Just Sayin !


« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2018, 07:54:10 pm »

I shoot Pietta's in 1851's 44 calibre or 1860's 44 caliber .
All with APP .
No lube .
Round ball.
Slixshot nipples .
Remington #10 caps .
Pushed tight with a Antler .
I load on a Powder inc press.
I wipe down cylinder and pistols after every stage .
Works 100% Every time .
Rooster Ron Wayne
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Bunk
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« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2018, 09:39:40 pm »

Personally, I use a home-made wad using the Mike Belivue method and pure fur felt lubricated with a mixture of 50% by weight tallow rendered from beef kidney fat and beeswax.

I tried the little pure lube wad and had it melt in the Texas summer.
12 cylinders loaded and 12 cylinders shot something between a squib and a cough.
The felt wads work just fine because there is no oil to bleed out.

One 36’ piece of that felt will make wads for a lifetime.
At least that is my method.
Bunk
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Bunk
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« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2018, 10:30:15 am »

that is a thirty six INCH piece of felt sorry about that
 Bunk
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Rooster Ron Wayne
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« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2018, 07:39:39 pm »

I personally think the majority of chain fires come from bad fitting caps .
If you cut a good ring of lead when seating the balls I doubt you will ever get a chain fire from the front .
But bad fitting Caps or Caps falling off is more likely to give you the dreaded chain fire .
Rooster Ron Wayne
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« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2018, 10:56:45 pm »

Howdy Rooster,

I heartily agree.  Most chain fires happen from the REAR of the cylinder.  Remember to always use caps that snugly fit the nipples and don't fall off till their chamber is fired.  After the chamber is fired many times caps do fall off.  But, by then they are not an issue, they only seem to gum up the works so the cylinder won't rotate.  Many times this can be cleared and the stage continued.  Thus the difficulty of shooting frontiersman gunfighter style.  FWIW, I've shot Frontiersman GF with my brace of ROAs.  I wouldn't even attempt it with my 1860 open tops.  I do, however, usually shoot FCGF with both my open tops and my ROAs with no difficulty.

DD-MDA
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Lucky R. K.
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« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2018, 09:02:02 am »


I agree with both Rooster and Dick that most multiple discharges come from the rear. I had an 1860 Cenature that used to scare me to death when I shot it. After a lot of head scratching I finally figured out that the cone of the nipples I had installed were a bit long and when the gun recoiled from firing the rest of the caps fired. Nipples with shorter cones fixed my problem.

Lucky
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greyhawk
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« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2018, 09:13:52 am »


I agree with both Rooster and Dick that most multiple discharges come from the rear. I had an 1860 Cenature that used to scare me to death when I shot it. After a lot of head scratching I finally figured out that the cone of the nipples I had installed were a bit long and when the gun recoiled from firing the rest of the caps fired. Nipples with shorter cones fixed my problem.

Lucky


I proposed that here in a long post about a month ago - must have not yelled it loud enough Roll Eyes
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2018, 03:23:52 pm »

Now .... Just a hot second here Monsieur Dastardly   Shocked

I be a Gunfighter.  Been one fer a while.  Lots of While.  Some Lustrum(s) ago, I fell down the deep dark well of (Gasp) THE DARK SIDE.  At the same time I also switched to Percussion.  Cap Guns ya know.  Then almost immediately discovered ... Snubbies.  Cap Gun Snubbies.  All the while, was still shooting ... wait for it .... one more second ..... THERE IT IS > > > >  GUNFIGHTER.  Was shooting Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter before we was legal (Lots of fun then).  Shooting Cap Guns. 

Was also playing occasionally at Frontiersman and Plainsman.  Still shooting Snubbie Cap Guns.  Now for the biggie.  The Snubbie Cap Guns I shoot, in Frontiersman .. or .. Plainsman .. or .. Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter have all been built on Pietta Open Top 1860s or 1851s.  I have never own'd a pair or even one of those strange modern Ruger Old Armies.  Silly, big clunky looking things anyway.  Always shot Colt Pattern 1860s, 1851s, never never .44 1851s and even 1861s.  Never Rugers.  SO:

How come you have an aversion to shooting Frontiersman with yer 1860s, yet you will shoot Gunfighter with yer 1860s.  Unless of course, your 1860s haven't been modified to run flawlessly like a cartridge gun.  Like Mine.   Grin   What be up wid dat???

Smedley
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greyhawk
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« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2018, 06:04:45 pm »

Now .... Just a hot second here Monsieur Dastardly   Shocked

I be a Gunfighter.  Been one fer a while.  Lots of While.  Some Lustrum(s) ago, I fell down the deep dark well of (Gasp) THE DARK SIDE.  At the same time I also switched to Percussion.  Cap Guns ya know.  Then almost immediately discovered ... Snubbies.  Cap Gun Snubbies.  All the while, was still shooting ... wait for it .... one more second ..... THERE IT IS > > > >  GUNFIGHTER.  Was shooting Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter before we was legal (Lots of fun then).  Shooting Cap Guns. 

Was also playing occasionally at Frontiersman and Plainsman.  Still shooting Snubbie Cap Guns.  Now for the biggie.  The Snubbie Cap Guns I shoot, in Frontiersman .. or .. Plainsman .. or .. Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter have all been built on Pietta Open Top 1860s or 1851s.  I have never own'd a pair or even one of those strange modern Ruger Old Armies.  Silly, big clunky looking things anyway.  Always shot Colt Pattern 1860s, 1851s, never never .44 1851s and even 1861s.  Never Rugers.  SO:

What took ya so loooooong ?  I thought ya musta got laryngityis in ya typin finger!!  Grin

How come you have an aversion to shooting Frontiersman with yer 1860s, yet you will shoot Gunfighter with yer 1860s.  Unless of course, your 1860s haven't been modified to run flawlessly like a cartridge gun.  Like Mine.   Grin   What be up wid dat???

Smedley
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Noz
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« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2018, 12:36:37 am »

I have had 4 chainfires in 13 years of Frontiersman.  ALL came from the FRONT. To make it even freakyer, in all cases the cap on the fired chamber was in place and intact.
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2018, 11:58:19 am »


PLUS ONE to Noz

EXCEPT:  I haven't had that many Chain Fire.  Just one.  Same Same observation.  The Chain Fire came from the FRONT of the chamber.  ALL (ALL) of the long term Cap Gun shooters I shot with also mirror that same experience/result.  Those chambers the followed in the chain retained the unfired Caps, on the nipple.

There are/is a bunch of printed information on the phenomenon well worth reading.  Much better than just Parrot.
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Lefty Dude
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« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2018, 12:41:10 pm »

Never had a chain fire in all my day's of shooting C&B Revolvers. Started shooting them in the middle 1980's.

Tight Balls, I like Tight Balls !!!!
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Noz
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« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2018, 02:26:54 pm »

Mine were tight, just too hard.
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greyhawk
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« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2018, 06:46:15 pm »

PLUS ONE to Noz

EXCEPT:  I haven't had that many Chain Fire.  Just one.  Same Same observation.  The Chain Fire came from the FRONT of the chamber.  ALL (ALL) of the long term Cap Gun shooters I shot with also mirror that same experience/result.  Those chambers the followed in the chain retained the unfired Caps, on the nipple.

There are/is a bunch of printed information on the phenomenon well worth reading.  Much better than just Parrot.

I also have had one only - from the front I believe - coulda been from the back - its a long time ago - but was the one and only time I forgot the grease over the ball (or a wad under or something designed to stop that from happening) the major lesson was dont be in too big of a hurry - I had just got my itchy palms on my new little toy (pocket colt in 36) first shot seemed kinda loud and more recoil that I expected - came around to shoot number five and its already done it - empty chamber wid crud in it - oooooops
My comments re caps impacting the recoil shield at the back I reckon are valid - and probably behind a lot of chainfire incidents - BUT - on a coffinmaker tuned gun? not a chance!!! That would be careless !! I reckon if you load a capgun without first checking for clearance at the back - then mother nature will attempt to remove you from the gene pool and at some point she may even succeed
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2018, 08:38:57 pm »


PLUS ONE to Lefty, Noz and Greyhawk.
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Mogorilla
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« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2018, 08:15:29 am »

I shot this weekend.  No lube or wads.   Other than a blasted spent cap falling into the works, all went well.  I was just off the 2nd place score and might have beaten them if the cap had not occurred, as that target was toast.   There were at least 6 other C&B shooters.   At James farm that day and nary a chain fire to be had.   We had a mix of Remingtons and Colts and a mix of lube, wad and nothing.   
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« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2018, 02:05:48 pm »

the loading information on the label inside a case set says to fill the chamber half full of powder and seat the ball.
this, I would imagine was a combat or self defense load Oddly enough that is what I use in my .44 1860 with a lube was added for the barrel fouling to continue firing more than six shots. I guess in the old days if six shots did not serve the purpose pull another gun or run.
Bunk
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