Javascript DHTML Drop Down Menu Powered by dhtml-menu-builder.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 21, 2018, 03:37:41 am

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
* Home FlashChat Help Calendar Login Register
Currently there are 0 Users in the Cas City Chat Rooms!
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Leather Shop (Moderators: Marshal Will Wingam, Ten Wolves Fiveshooter)  |  Topic: Question for those that use a scabbard & lever rifle on a real horse? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Question for those that use a scabbard & lever rifle on a real horse?  (Read 1193 times)
Black River Smith
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 822


« on: February 06, 2018, 09:15:05 pm »


I am making my first and only rifle scabbard in the Meanea pattern.  I will never really use this on a horse but ....

I know the following questions are very subjective to peoples opinions and preferences.  But I used all my historical reference books to try and decide 'what seems appropriate back then' but to no great satisfaction.  I read stohlman leather book on 'cases and scabbard' but his suggestion went totally contrary to what the history book photos showed and western movies show.  He states rifle on right with butt back end and sights up.  Most westerns have the scabbard on the right side butt forward sights down.  Most books show it on left side with butt forward.

Without getting to any arguments please let me know your approach.

1. Scabord on right or left side?
2. Butt of rifle facing front or back end of horse?
3. Rifle inserted with sights up or down in scabbard?

These question center around the placing of the strap retaining ribbets in the correct orientation so they do not injure the the horse if the scabbard would used.

I know any comment is useful so share your reasons and preferences for your orientation.

Thanks,
BRS
Logged

Black River Smith
LongWalker
Very Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 65


« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2018, 10:36:50 pm »

Just a thought.  The rule I learned was if you are on level ground, orientation doesn't really matter.  If you are in hilly or mountainous country, butt forward and up is less-likely to fall out of the scabbard.  On the other hand, butt back and sights up is easier to draw from the ground. 

With an iron-sighted rifle, I always had mine rigged butt forward, sights down on the right side.  Most times, it stayed there: if I needed a gun, the pistol was more convenient so eventually I stopped carrying a rifle. 
Logged

In my book a pioneer is a man who turned all the grass upside down, strung bob-wire over the dust that was left, poisoned the water, cut down the trees, killed the Indian who owned the land and called it progress.  Charles M. Russell
Major 2
"Still running against the wind"
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10652


Cracker Cow Cavalry


« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2018, 01:42:04 am »

" ...Most books show it on left side with butt forward."

A horse is approached & mounted from the left....  hence the left side placement and butt forward so you don't fowl your leg as it swings over the cantle & flank.

One of the worst horse wrecks I saw, when a fellow was mounting, was when he had his 30/30 Right side, butt to the rear.... Shocked
AS he swung over,  his leg fowled between the rifle butt and the horse rear quarter flank.
His leg in the V that was created , jammed in he was hung up, the horse began to buck ...then more violently ....
The guy was thrown head first over the horse's head...landing on his knees & right arm ... broke a bone in his arm at the wrist and his collar bone plus wrecked his knee cap.... 

Right rear,  Butt rear...bad Ju Ju 
Logged
Marshal Will Wingam
Garden Variety
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7774


Smile. It makes people wonder what you're up to.


« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2018, 12:13:52 pm »

After reading Major2's account, I'd be putting it on butt forward and on the left for convenience from the ground. Wouldn't want to have to put it in the scabbard on one side then go around to the other side of the horse to mount.
Logged


      SCORRS     SASS     BHR
Trailrider
CAS-L Ghost Rider
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2051



WWW
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2018, 12:20:52 pm »

When I hunted on horseback (always dismounted to shoot!!!), I packed my scope-sighted, bolt-action rifle, butt rear, sights up on the right side. I made my own scabbards, and had a flap that covered the rear end of the scope, plus a retainer that fit over the bolt. The scabbard was angled so that the buttstock stayed below the level of the cantle, so as not to interfere with my right leg as I mounted or dismounted. The problem with having the stock butt forward on either side of the horse was catching brush when riding through timber.  In addition, with the "southeast" carry, I could draw the rifle before dismounting or while on the ground.

I remember seeing one of The Magnificent Seven mounting and catching his leg between the rifle scabbard and the horse. He was able to disengage and finish mounting.  However, part of these problems had to do with the buttstock sticking up above the level of the top of the horse.  Never had a problem with the way I attached mine.
Logged

Ride to the sound of the guns, but watch out for bushwhackers! Godspeed to all in harm's way in the defense of Freedom! God Bless America!

Your obedient servant,
Trailrider,
Bvt. Lt. Col. Commanding,
Southern District
Dept. of the Platte, GAF
Ranch 13
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1649


WWW
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2018, 06:03:37 pm »

 I prefer to carry a rifle on the on side, butt forward. That way you can keep track of the rifle easier. The exception if a bolt rifle, then carry it butt forward on the off side , so the bolt doesn't rub against the horse.
Logged

Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.
Coal Creek Griff
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1379



« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2018, 09:57:51 pm »

I fully admit to my ignorance here,  but I heard somewhere that if you're planning to do any roping, a butt-forward placement would interfere. For that reason (so the story went), the rear placement was chosen by working cowboys. On the other hand, if I was a working cowboy, planning on roping, I'd probably not carry a rifle. Again, I don't ride or rope, so it's all speculation.  Set me straight.

CC Griff
Logged

BOLD #921
BOSS #196
1860 Henry Rifle Shooter #173
SSS #573
Ranch 13
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1649


WWW
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2018, 10:02:49 pm »

Butt forward would interfere if you hung the scabbard at such an angle that it sticks up above the pommels.
Logged

Eat more beef the west wasn't won on a salad.
LongWalker
Very Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 65


« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2018, 10:48:03 pm »

If you're roping, get the rifle off the horse.  You don't want any extraneous "stuff" hanging off your rigging when there's a cow on the other end of the rope.  That's just a trainwreck waiting to happen.
Logged

In my book a pioneer is a man who turned all the grass upside down, strung bob-wire over the dust that was left, poisoned the water, cut down the trees, killed the Indian who owned the land and called it progress.  Charles M. Russell
greyhawk
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 367


« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2018, 02:51:28 am »

If you're roping, get the rifle off the horse.  You don't want any extraneous "stuff" hanging off your rigging when there's a cow on the other end of the rope.  That's just a trainwreck waiting to happen.

I carried a 92 horseback for three years when I was young - our Aussie saddles are different - I could not put up with the bulge of the scabbard and rifle under the flap so I ended up with it vertical hanging from the pommel on the off side and tied back to the girth and then around with the breastplate to the nearside girth - but any serious mustering in the rough and the rifle stayed home. We dont rope - that never took hold except for the bronco system in the northern stock camps. All our cattle work is done in decent yards - its way more labour efficient - branding cradles and crushes - decent drafting yards. Where your guys win is the social side of it - I have ridden a couple of times wirh friends in Nebraska to work cattle - theres a branding on at Jacks place saturday - half the district turns up with trailers horses and ropes -- Bobs missus brings cold beers and a barbeque and the job is done by 11 oclock - so they all can stand round and tell lies er stories for a few hours - it keeps the cowboy story alive - good stuff.     
Logged
Sir Charles deMouton-Black
THE ANCIENT SUBSTANCE ENDURES - ALL LESSER PROPELLANTS SHALL FIZZLE
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 5904



« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2018, 10:52:50 am »

If you're roping, get the rifle off the horse.  You don't want any extraneous "stuff" hanging off your rigging when there's a cow on the other end of the rope.  That's just a trainwreck waiting to happen.

All the images I have seen of cowboys with a rifle in a scabbard were of the trail bosses. The actual working cowboys left theirs in the bedding wagon, (if they brought a rifle at all.)
Logged

NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
greyhawk
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 367


« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2018, 11:58:59 am »

All the images I have seen of cowboys with a rifle in a scabbard were of the trail bosses. The actual working cowboys left theirs in the bedding wagon, (if they brought a rifle at all.)

good chance those boys couldnt aford a rifle anyway.
seen plenty of pictures of those trainwreck setups with the rifle butt forward on the offside and the coiled rope slung around the rifle butt --- hollywood maybe?? 
Logged
Black River Smith
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 822


« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2018, 03:46:02 pm »

I thought I would just add some photos of my progress to this older posting rather than starting a new posting.

Well I decided to go with a left; front facing; sight up; positioning on a real horse.

I do not know if the photos will show enough detail but these are the best HDR photos my phone takes.  Also, there is a two tone coloring on the leather.  I have had the leather for several year just for making 'a scabbard'.  Well when I finally took it out for that purpose I noticed the oil staining of the leather.  It must have had something resting on it, which caused a transfer.  The good thing is that I did not plan on dyeing/coloring the final produce, just oiling it.  Hope it all blends out in the end.


The first pictures are of the stamp pattern I chose.

The second set of photos are just of the glued scabbard.

Well since taking these photos and this posting I have finished the hand stitching.  Needed to do it twice because first time I got half way through and realized the threading was going to be a little too short.  Second I allowed extra.


* IMG_2568.JPG (38.55 KB, 320x240 - viewed 26 times.)

* IMG_2572.JPG (39.51 KB, 240x320 - viewed 24 times.)

* IMG_2570.JPG (42.97 KB, 320x240 - viewed 26 times.)

* IMG_2577.JPG (32.66 KB, 320x240 - viewed 29 times.)
Logged

Black River Smith
Black River Smith
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 822


« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2018, 03:47:34 pm »

The last photo that would not fit within the previous posting.



* IMG_2579.JPG (24.25 KB, 320x240 - viewed 26 times.)
Logged

Black River Smith
Skeeter Lewis
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1098



« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2018, 02:55:15 am »

I remember that Teddy Blue Abbott in his autobiography 'We Pointed Them North' said that a rifle scabbard could gall a horse after a few hours and cowboys generally just had the sixgun.
Logged

Black River Smith
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 822


« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2018, 06:00:52 pm »

Skeeter,

Sir, I would like to thank you for your posting that finally put me on this track to make a scabbard.  Your photo and length measurement allowed me to grid scale the pattern that I used for this project.  I started sometime after the first of the year and just today finished the strap retainer and full burnishing.  Now I need to oil it all up.

The finished product does allow the insertion of my 1873 and 1866.  I tried the 1876 but not enough clearance past the bottom strap retainer.  I did not attach it too high I checked against photos and used Will Ghormley pattern.  Oh well, maybe after oiling the leather it will slip in.

I really do like the overall shape and size.  Again thank you for your posting from back in 2015 and your responses to my questions.
Logged

Black River Smith
Skeeter Lewis
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1098



« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2018, 02:51:18 am »

Glad to help. Looking forward to the completed job.
Logged

Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Leather Shop (Moderators: Marshal Will Wingam, Ten Wolves Fiveshooter)  |  Topic: Question for those that use a scabbard & lever rifle on a real horse? « previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.082 seconds with 23 queries.