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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Major 2, Capt Quirk)  |  Topic: tips and tricks 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: tips and tricks  (Read 3115 times)
Bunk
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« on: January 24, 2018, 05:21:18 pm »


Hi Partners!
This may not come as a shock but percussion caps are not cheap.Right now, the going price is about five buck skins a can of 100 and that does not include either hazmat or sales tax or both. Being, by nature, what Prof. Marvel calls frugal, I am not happy throwing fifty cents on the ground to clear the cones on my guns. I do not have compressed air in my gun working area, I just used “canned air”. The can comes with a tube to reach into corners or small holes like the opening in a cone. It does the trick, that is what I use and have not had a misfire in hundreds of rounds. The local Walmercado (a Texas thing) has it in the office supply department for a very small cost and replaces expensive caps.

This is for all you cap gunners that smear grease on top of the ball for what ever reason. Next time load and grease it up then fire one shot and see where the grease went. Right! You see it all over the front of the gun making a mess. A better solution is use greased felt wads made by using the Bottom Dealing Mike method. The lube I use for making them is beef tallow and paraffin wax 50:50 punched out with a TOW .45 or .357 wad cutter. Seals the chamber and leaves no mess.

This is a tip I got from the Geojohn black powder shooting pages and it works very well (look it up it is a cornucopia of good information). He recommends using a countersink cutter to knock the sharp edge off the chamber mouth.  That small bevel chamfer makes loading easier and that swages the ball into the chamber to make a good tight seal, eliminates all those little wire hairs that are so bothersome and the lube wad prevents the dreaded chain fire.
Something, by the way, that after over 60 years of shooting these antique guns I have experienced one time with one chamber. For a long time, it seemed to be a shooting range legend. I guess it can happen but I would not like to hang by my thumbs until it happens again.
For what this is worth
Yr’ Obt’ Svt’
Bunk
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Dick Dastardly
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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2018, 03:12:46 pm »

For those that would like to eliminate the lube mess, I offer the EPP-UG bullets.  They emulate round ball performance weighing near the same (150 grains vs 147 grains in 44 Cal.).  Same goes for the smaller EPP-UG 36 Cal.  When lube sized and taken to the range in the bp tubes (evidence vials), they make loading a snap.  Simply charge the chambers and seat the lube sized bullets.  The Tower of Power cylinder loading stand makes this a snap.

DD-MDA
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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2018, 04:57:20 pm »

DD, I have both your EPP-UG molds and like them for the convenience of having the lube contained in the bullet. I have found the 36 bullet, in particular, gives the 51 Navy a little more punch. I experimented quite a bit last year and found my loads with the EPP-UG knocked down the steel plate rack targets with more authority compared to a round ball. This with identical powder charges of 20 grs FFF. The EPP-UG loads were also louder in report and slightly more felt recoil. Those last two differences were not substantial but detectable none the less. Given that the EPP-UG and the round ball are essentially the same weight leaves room for debate why this is so. If I may offer one observation, I would prefer if the bottom heel to be slightly smaller in diameter to aid in loading.
 Bunk, I'm glad your experiments are proving successful and thanks for reporting your results. I'm having a great time myself trying out so many different things with these cap & ball pistols. Sure feels good when things work out--almost(ALMOST!!) makes me forget the times when these things are cranky and grouchy for no apparent reason!!! Can't wait for the weather to break and get back at it.
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Cliff Fendley
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2018, 02:14:43 pm »

Actually on my Remingtons I don't mind the grease getting all over the gun because enough of it gets in the main pin is seams to help them run a little better. Now shooting a colt style pistol grease over your balls is just a mess Shocked
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Noz
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2018, 03:29:24 pm »

Hi Partners!
This may not come as a shock but percussion caps are not cheap.Right now, the going price is about five buck skins a can of 100 and that does not include either hazmat or sales tax or both. Being, by nature, what Prof. Marvel calls frugal, I am not happy throwing fifty cents on the ground to clear the cones on my guns. I do not have compressed air in my gun working area, I just used “canned air”. The can comes with a tube to reach into corners or small holes like the opening in a cone. It does the trick, that is what I use and have not had a misfire in hundreds of rounds. The local Walmercado (a Texas thing) has it in the office supply department for a very small cost and replaces expensive caps.

This is for all you cap gunners that smear grease on top of the ball for what ever reason. Next time load and grease it up then fire one shot and see where the grease went. Right! You see it all over the front of the gun making a mess. A better solution is use greased felt wads made by using the Bottom Dealing Mike method. The lube I use for making them is beef tallow and paraffin wax 50:50 punched out with a TOW .45 or .357 wad cutter. Seals the chamber and leaves no mess.

This is a tip I got from the Geojohn black powder shooting pages and it works very well (look it up it is a cornucopia of good information). He recommends using a countersink cutter to knock the sharp edge off the chamber mouth.  That small bevel chamfer makes loading easier and that swages the ball into the chamber to make a good tight seal, eliminates all those little wire hairs that are so bothersome and the lube wad prevents the dreaded chain fire.
Something, by the way, that after over 60 years of shooting these antique guns I have experienced one time with one chamber. For a long time, it seemed to be a shooting range legend. I guess it can happen but I would not like to hang by my thumbs until it happens again.
For what this is worth
Yr’ Obt’ Svt’
Bunk

The easiest thing to do is to take the Lee cartrige chamfering tool and make a couple of passes on each chamber.  Knocks the edge off and makes for easier ramming.
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2018, 06:49:21 pm »


Well ...... I don't shoot .36 ball anymore.  I shoot the EPP UG - 36.  Since I shoot APP, I shoot the EPP UG - 36 "as cast" with no lubes at all.  The base of the EPP sets perfectly into the 36 Chamber to square it up for ramming.  I also use the DDD Tower of Power cylinder loader to load off the gun.  Works a Treat.
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Noz
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2018, 07:38:00 am »

The chamfered cylinder will not affect your loading of a bullet rather than a ball.  I would think it would be easier as the chamfer would create a funnel like entry for the base of the bullet to enter the chamber.
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Dick Dastardly
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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2018, 12:24:33 pm »

You can turn your 38-55 into a bunny gun by loading the EPP-UG .36 Cal in 38-55 brass with a reduced powder charge.  Quiet, accurate and  fouling free.  You will, however, need to use some filler to take up the extra space below the bullet.  Gritts works great for me.

DD-MDA
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« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2018, 01:02:13 pm »

HEY  Shocked  WAIT JUST A MINUTE HERE   Roll Eyes

I run the EPP UG - 36 in 38-55  Cool   Have for a while now.  However.  I are lazy and allergic to "grease" so I load the EPP UG - 36 in the 38-55 but I use a FULL case of 2f APP.  Like a laser out to 50 meters or so.  Don't know what it does after that.  Shoot it for Planesman side matches.  FUN!!  Super FUN!!
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Dick Dastardly
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« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2018, 04:33:00 pm »

That's probably the limit of accuracy with that load.  It does a great job within it's limits.  No recoil, good accuracy and easy on the ears.

DD-MDA
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« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2018, 02:21:36 pm »


I've also loaded some cast 380 Round Ball in the 38-55.  Those er fun too.  Great Plinkers.  Lots of Cream-0-Wheat   Grin
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greyhawk
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« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2018, 05:11:16 pm »

HEY  Shocked  WAIT JUST A MINUTE HERE   Roll Eyes

I run the EPP UG - 36 in 38-55  Cool   Have for a while now.  However.  I are lazy and allergic to "grease" so I load the EPP UG - 36 in the 38-55 but I use a FULL case of 2f APP.  Like a laser out to 50 meters or so.  Don't know what it does after that.  Shoot it for Planesman side matches.  FUN!!  Super FUN!!

NO ! wait jest a couple o minutes here
Whatdaya wanna mess around wid a 38/55 to get it ta kill a bunny for??? mine does it just fine wid its normal 250 over a case of black load - I actually won the "Rabbit Rampage"event at our club with mine a couple years back - 2 minutes to shoot as many as ya like - 100yard paper bunny - true size - I think I got 17 hits - ya shoulda seen the smoke over the range - 15 guys goin at it fer a couple minutes ----beee u ti ful . 
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Noz
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« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2018, 07:39:17 am »

A perfect example of the meaning of the phrase "Fog of War".
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2018, 01:34:16 pm »

When I shot cap guns, a Remington and a Old Army .44, I used the paraffin felt wads but I would put one over the powder and one over the ball for all day in the woods carry. I didn't get all that crisco in my holster and never had a chain fire. I would use the grease when I was shooting in the yard. I never shot one in a cas match but I was in a muzzle loading club and the shot a revolver match at their monthly shoot. My hats off to those who shoot cap guns at cas matches, there's alot going on with these critters and then there's the actual match, target order etc to keep up with. I don't know if you're masochists or just don't like to reload.
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Crow Choker
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« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2018, 05:21:40 pm »

Getting back to the OP's original 'tips and tricks', I quit greasing the top of the balls in my percussion revolvers some twelve years ago. Always hated the mess of doing so, after the first couple of shots as Bunk penned, that grease was all melted and sprayed all over the gun and hands. Always carried a rag stuck in my belt when shooting, just to wipe grease on, whether just shooting at a range or walking along my favorite river area plinking at targets of opportunity. My jeans always looked as though I had been working on some car or machine. Started buying lubed felt wads by the 1000 back when I started using them, but would soak them with a mix of sheep tallow and/or beeswax/paraffin. Used various ratio's depending on what temperature I was going to be shooting. Bought a big chunk of felt from Durofelt sometime back and will start punching out wads sometime when my other wads are gone (both 36 and 44). A lot better shooting with them, ie. "A more harmonious outcome"! Don't have to mess around with fillers, just use 20 grains of black with 36 caliber, 30 for 60' Army 44, and 42-43 for Dragoon 44's. My Walker gets around 45-46 grains. Powder, wad , and ball fill the cylinders, pleasant, accurate shooting. No need for Big-Lube bullets, not saying they're not good, just prefer powder, wads, and balls. I do use a Mav Dutchman 44 and 38 Snakebite for cartridge guns, 'Very Good' "Harmonious Outcome" with them.

As far as clearing nipples, back in the early days of my shooting (early 70's) when we bought caps for around .60 (cents) a hundred, never thought anything about the high cost of doing so. At what they cost today and at times when not to plentiful, esp for Remington #10's which I prefer, I'm to cheap to waste caps blowing out the cylinders before loading up that first round of six. Not sure how long I've been doing it, has been at least 10 yrs probably, but I just use my air compressor. I do keep it and the lines free of moisture. When loading a cold gun, I take a long stemmed Q-tip with some denatured alcohol and wipe out the interior of each chamber, do the same with a pipe cleaner on the nipple interiors, then blow the air into each cylinder and nipple. Cleans, dries, and clears perfectly. I put the revolver on half cock, hold the gun to a light, and peer down each chamber from the business end. You can tell if any nipple isn't cleared by its either blocked or by the size of the opening your looking at. I think there has only been a handful of times where I had to redo a cylinder/nipple. Have never had a cylinder fail to fire due to a plugged nipple orifice doing it this way. Canned air will work to, air compressor if ya have one is cheaper.
Reference GeoJohn's website---a lot of interesting reading there.

Now here's a tip for ya all, don't know if it's ever been tried or posted, but after shooting a bunch of 38 Special's last weekend in a Colt Richard/Mason conversion revolver (Uberti) loaded with 18.5 g of FFF black topped with a big lube Snakebite bullet, I had all of those dirty lookin brass cases that had been a nice shiny yellow brass color before shooting them. I've always after shooting any brass cartridges tossed them in hot soapy water using anything from dish detergent, brass cleaner, or using Potassium Bitartrate. Potassium Bitartrate if yer wondering is Cream of Tarter. The same stuff used for cooking. Using it in a soulution, then rinsing the brass does work, but I quit after the wife disciplined me for using all of her supply from the kitchen cabinet and having to resupply figured the cost was to high. Back when ya could buy a big tin of it for less than a buck, wasn't so bad, did work well. Anyway, I had those dirty 38 cases, was in the basement and thought I'd try a product the Mrs. uses for clothes washing. It's called "Oxi-Clean", used for getting tough stained and greasy clothing clean-sold everywhere. I put probably a tablespoon in a plastic ice cream pail, ran hot tap water in, and 'swished' the caes around for a bit, rinsed 2-3 times, and set out to dry. Using the other methods always took the crud off and cleaned them, but using the Oxi-Clean, they were basically spotless. Had some tarnish to them, can reload as is or tumble to bring back the brass shine, but they were the cleanest I think I've ever gotten any cartridge brass used with black powder. Have to use again, just passing on in case never before reported.

OK, got windy today, just bored this afternoon, to late to start anything, cold moisture laden wind outside, didn't feel like doing anything else but give ya all some reading material. Take care all.   Crow Choker
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2018, 08:14:44 pm »

TIPS and TRIX .........

Oxy-Clean.  Never thought of that.  Thanx Choker!!  I'll try that next.  Couple of years ago I gave up the little jar of soapy at the range and have just been tossing my brass in my fired cartridge bag 'till I get home.  Toss em inna sink of warm water cut with a goodly amount of plain old White Vinegar.  Let em soak for 15 - 30 minutes, rinse, bake dry (Oven at 200 for an hour) and tumble.

I'm gonna try the Oxy though.  Sounds as good as the Vinegar.

Really enjoyed your dissertation.  Really good treatment for "Cabin Fever!!"
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Crow Choker
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« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2018, 08:35:03 am »

OK—‘For What It’s Worth’—-(Anybody who can name the group who sang that song and approx year will receive a free 5x5x5 box full of all of my used gun cleaning patches I use this year. No cheating by looking up-winner will be determined by whoever can name by total recall only!)  Shocked Shocked Grin. Anyway back to the post—A little over a week ago I saturated my burn pile and surrounding area with ‘shock and awe’ with 100 rds of Colt 44 blk powder rds topped with Mav Dutches by means of a Richards II. Resulting brass cases were their normal sootie black kinda greasy tarnished selves. (You would be to if ya got crammed in a metal tube and had a quantity of black powder ignited around ya  Cry) I did the Oxi-Clean wash on them again as I mentioned in my post right above Senior Coffinmakers. Results were the same as before, brass cases devoid of any sootie Black kinda greasy residue. They were lightly tarnished, but had that squeaky clean feel to them. They could be reloaded as is or be tumbled to bring back the bright brass shine.

I then did as I probably should have done before the first time I used the Oxi-Clean, I read the manufacturers label on the tub of the “do’s and don’t’s” for the Oxi. One of the things ‘they’ say not to subject Oxi-Clean to is jewelry and some metals. Didn’t say why. Curious, I called the 1-800 number on the tub and talked to a customer rep of the outfit that makes Oxi. I asked her the reason for the no jewelry and metal no use. She advised that the Oxi wouldn’t damage any stones or cause any metal damage, but may tarnish some metals. She advised not to leave in the solution long and to rinse really well. I explained the why of my call and what I used the Oxi for. She said this was a first for Oxi-Clean uses. Advised she’d have to pass on to r&d as they’d get a kick out of it. I advised that the brass was already tarnished so no fear of Oxi affecting the metal that way was feared. As a side note, the brass wasn’t any more tarnished using the Oxi than by using vinegar, soapy hot water, or any other solutions. In fact, I think it was less, they certainly a lot cleaner in appearance.

Just passin on my 2nd go-round using the Oxi. If nothing else for your readin pleasure  Shocked Grin  Good Day All!!!
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2018, 01:57:45 pm »


Gad Zouks but I wish it would quit Snowin and Warm up enough to get outside and BURN SOME POWDER  Huh
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Lefty Dude
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2018, 05:39:46 pm »

High 70- Low 80 here, blue sky with some clouds. Did I say it is a lovely day in ARIZONA !!!!!

It is usually this way every day in PARADISE !!!!!
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2018, 07:48:09 pm »


Hi Lefty  Shocked.  Just thought I should let you know I'm thinking some really mean, Nasty, Unprintable Things that might be construed to question your Parentage and IQ.

But .... I do admit ... I wish I were there in Paradise wid ya   Grin
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greyhawk
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« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2018, 09:20:30 pm »

OK—‘For What It’s Worth’—-(Anybody who can name the group who sang that song and approx year will receive a free 5x5x5 box full of all of my used gun cleaning patches I use this year. No cheating by looking up-winner will be determined by whoever can name by total recall only!)  Shocked Shocked Grin. Anyway back to the post—A little over a week ago I saturated my burn pile and surrounding area with ‘shock and awe’ with 100 rds of Colt 44 blk powder rds topped with Mav Dutches by means of a Richards II. Resulting brass cases were their normal sootie black kinda greasy tarnished selves. (You would be to if ya got crammed in a metal tube and had a quantity of black powder ignited around ya  Cry) I did the Oxi-Clean wash on them again as I mentioned in my post right above Senior Coffinmakers. Results were the same as before, brass cases devoid of any sootie Black kinda greasy residue. They were lightly tarnished, but had that squeaky clean feel to them. They could be reloaded as is or be tumbled to bring back the bright brass shine.

I then did as I probably should have done before the first time I used the Oxi-Clean, I read the manufacturers label on the tub of the “do’s and don’t’s” for the Oxi. One of the things ‘they’ say not to subject Oxi-Clean to is jewelry and some metals. Didn’t say why. Curious, I called the 1-800 number on the tub and talked to a customer rep of the outfit that makes Oxi. I asked her the reason for the no jewelry and metal no use. She advised that the Oxi wouldn’t damage any stones or cause any metal damage, but may tarnish some metals. She advised not to leave in the solution long and to rinse really well. I explained the why of my call and what I used the Oxi for. She said this was a first for Oxi-Clean uses. Advised she’d have to pass on to r&d as they’d get a kick out of it. I advised that the brass was already tarnished so no fear of Oxi affecting the metal that way was feared. As a side note, the brass wasn’t any more tarnished using the Oxi than by using vinegar, soapy hot water, or any other solutions. In fact, I think it was less, they certainly a lot cleaner in appearance.

Just passin on my 2nd go-round using the Oxi. If nothing else for your readin pleasure  Shocked Grin  Good Day All!!!

Fr what its worth ?
I use citric acid to clean brass + a bit of detergent an the whole lot goes in a little ultrasonic cleaner I got off Ebay - got lucky the one I picked is only small but it has got more grunt than a lot of bigger, more pricey ones - I run it on low setting for 15 minutes and give the brass a few stirs round with a bamboo stick along the way - shells come out as good as new on the inside - not a speck of black or grease in there anyplace! Outside they clean but have a few tarnish marks . Citric acid dont hurt brass and its cheap to buy in bulk (ag store , winery supply, fertiliser place etc)   
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Lefty Dude
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« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2018, 12:19:39 am »

Hi Lefty  Shocked.  Just thought I should let you know I'm thinking some really mean, Nasty, Unprintable Things that might be construed to question your Parentage and IQ.

But .... I do admit ... I wish I were there in Paradise wid ya   Grin
[/quote

Ouch; 200 inches of Snow out your Way !!!!  Guess What, a huge Low Pressure will be here tomorrow. And it is heading your way.
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« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2018, 08:32:26 am »

Hey Crow Choker, to answer your question about what group sang "For What Its Worth", I believe it was Buffalo Springfield. That means you are probably as old as me! Haven't been on the computer for awhile and just now saw your question. Promise I am working from memory and didn't look anything up. Not sure I'm right, but if I am, those used cleaning patches are a great prize! Wink!
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« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2018, 11:51:48 am »

Navy Six-🌟🌟YOU ARE THE WINNER☀️☀️!!!!
Right on Right on!!! Buffalo Springfield was the group. Early 1967. Was their biggest hit. Good tune. Yep probably around same age. Graduated  same year as song,’67. Will have to start filling box with cleanin patches!  Grin Grin
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« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2018, 11:48:26 am »

I have a Thumler's Tumbler that does an excellent job on dirty brass but it is a PIA to load and unload.
I had a pile of 38 special that needed cleaning. It sure was easier when I used the walnut and a vibrator tumbler to clean cases but the walnut is not as aggressive as the ceramic and the cases frequently are not clean inside.
 
I had a thought so I poured the brass in the vibrator, added a goodly amount of walnut and a couple of cups of the ceramic media.

Voila! Clean shiny brass, dry and ready to load.
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