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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Major 2, Capt Quirk)  |  Topic: ffps of 12 gage load 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Corkscrewtom
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« on: January 05, 2018, 01:32:51 pm »


What is the fps of a 12 gage load consisting of 1oz of 7 1/2 or 8 shot over 4.3cc of ffG? Thanks
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hellgate
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 02:12:39 pm »

How many grains in 4.3cc?  Short barrel or long barrel? A typical 3dram (82grs) 1 1/8oz shot is supposed to go about 1200fps. YMMV if the barrel is long (30-32") or a 20" coach gun. FFFg will give higher velocities in short barrels and FFg gives faster loads in long barrels all due to faster or slower powders in short & long barrels.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

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Corkscrewtom
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 02:22:36 pm »

Hellgate, 4.3cc is roughly 63.2 grains of ffG. Shooting out of a coach gun style double, 20-25". Thanks
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Bunk
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 11:10:55 pm »

I have no idea about ft/sec and really don't care but all I know is 4 c/c of FFg, an over powder card wad, a ˝” fiber wad, the same 4 c/c of #9 shot capped with an over shot wad and a good tight roll crimp will, at SASS ranges, knock a 25# steel knock down target flatter that a wet cow pie on a hot parking lot.
That is a Texas thang,y’all.
Smilingly submitted
Bunk
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wildman1
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 07:52:47 am »

In AZ we don't park our cows in a parkin lot.
 Wink
wM1
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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2018, 03:59:18 pm »

Actual fps, velocity, is less important at SASS main match distances than pattern density.  I've seen big booming 10ga (I have one) not knock down targets when a little 20 ga (I have one) took 'em down with ease.  The 20ga has full and modified choke barrels and the big 10ga is shortened and is open choke or no choke Win. 87.  The big 10ga is fun to shoot and I enjoy the oohs and aahs but it lacks pattern density and so is not a good choice if the KDs tip hard.  I'm not pickin' on the match director here, but targets do sometimes get out of calibration.  In a 12ga shotgun, 60+ grains of FFg under a 1-1\8 charge of fine shot should take average KDs down with authority.  If not, you may have to take steps to tighten up your pattern and hold center.  I load for everything from 410ga to 10ga black powder loads and even my Grandson with a .410 has no trouble with KDs.

DD-MDA
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2018, 07:58:13 pm »

Big PLUS ONE to DDD.

LOTS AND LOTS of heavy loaded big boom shotgun shells also blow really big holes in the pattern.  Big holes inna pattern leave lotz of poppers standing there.  Before thinking about the velocity of a BP load, pattern the gun and see if your blowing holes in your pattern.

I would also suggest some form of "shot cup" rather than the payload just sitting on top of a cushion wad.
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hellgate
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2018, 10:49:46 pm »

From one of my BP manuals:
82gr BP + 1 1/8oz shot = 1069 fps
92grs BP+ 1 1/4oz shot = 1050 fps
Barrel length unspecified but probably 28-32" muzzle loader
I'm gonna guess you are getting somewhere between 900=1000 FPS. If you went to FFFg you might get more velocity from your coach gun.

 I have seen blooper loads barely make it to the faller and nicely push it down. As has been stated: pattern density is more important than velocity. For hard knockdowns I use 80grs & 1 1/8oz of #6 shot in a steel shot cup that gives my cylinder bore guns a modified choke pattern density. Since my IGA coach gun is choked I rarely get out the big boomers because the IC & Mod chokes are enough for 99% of the fallers I now see. It didn't used to be that way in SASS when I started in 1993.

Usage of just about any shot cup will improve patterns. Fiber filler wads can blow holes in patterns. If in doubt it is real easy to pattern your gun: get a cardboard box, butcher/freezer paper, tape or stapler, and a marker for an aiming point. Staple or tape the paper to the box, mark an aiming point, walk back 10-15 yards and blast the paper. Repeat with the other barrel on a new sheet. You'd be surprised how many doubles are not regulated to hit POA. At 10-15 yards any pattern problems will be evident. Either an even pattern or a center dense one is OK by me for fallers.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

SASS#3302L
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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2018, 01:54:47 pm »

I use about 50 gr FFg (or even less in FFFg) in 12s, and about 40 in 16s. As several have said, "Ats enuf fer CAS."

Search my old posts on Ptreryplegia. An article and poem composed in the very early days of "Shooting Flyinge".

One of the lines goes something like; "Little powder, much lead, kills birds real dead!"
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NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
hellgate
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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2018, 05:40:01 pm »

The fiber wads, with too much powder can be blown right through the back of the shot column and result in a donut (no shot in the middle) pattern. Less powder and that won't happen. Like the poem says.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

SASS#3302L
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RUCAS#58
Wolverton Mt. Peacekeepers
SCORRS
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Noz
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2018, 08:40:33 am »

In any shotgun application I like a square load with the powder reduced by 15-30%
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Bunk
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2018, 06:17:22 pm »

actually Wildman neither do I park my cows on a parking lot.
My cows act as lawn mowers, that trim, compost and fertilize the lawn. Sometimes got to watch where you walk but that just adds fun to life.
Bunk
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Sir Charles deMouton-Black
THE ANCIENT SUBSTANCE ENDURES - ALL LESSER PROPELLANTS SHALL FIZZLE
NCOWS
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2018, 08:10:14 pm »

actually Wildman neither do I park my cows on a parking lot.
My cows act as lawn mowers, that trim, compost and fertilize the lawn. Sometimes got to watch where you walk but that just adds fun to life.
Bunk

Like that line from THE BALLAD OF COW PATTIE.

"When the chips are down, Ya gotta watch yer step!"
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NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Major 2, Capt Quirk)  |  Topic: ffps of 12 gage load « previous next »
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