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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Cas City Historical Society (Moderators: St. George, Silver Creek Slim)  |  Topic: Vintage news - The wild West only lasted 30 years 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Vintage news - The wild West only lasted 30 years  (Read 1327 times)
Sir Charles deMouton-Black
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NCOWS
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« on: December 16, 2017, 09:56:28 pm »


We all know this don't we.

http://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/12/16/wild-west-era/
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Buffalo Creek Law Dog
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2017, 02:40:10 pm »

The difference between the U.S. old west and the Canadian old west is that in the U.S. the settlers went west first, then came law enforcement, such as it was at the time.  In Canada the law (North West Mounted Police) went west first, established law and order, had the Indian treaties signed, and then the settlers came. 
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2017, 10:56:44 pm »

If you work outside i'd say your nailing about 95% of the old west. Im pretty sure someones done that since 1895.
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Cholla Hill Tirador
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2017, 10:49:00 pm »

  Did someone actually pay him to write that nonsense???

  CHT
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Dave T
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2017, 11:10:18 am »

I've always considered the "Old West" era to be from the end of the War between the States up to at least to 1912 when Arizona and New Mexico became states. It might be said it continued until WWI when a lot of rural people (mostly the men) traveled far from home for the first time to serve in the military and discovered the big wide world. Prior to that, at least in many rural areas there wasn't all that much difference between 1890 (generally accepted as still part of the Era) and 1910 to possibly as late as 1915.

My $.02 worth,
Dave
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scrubby2009
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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2018, 11:39:41 pm »

I'd concur with Dave T. My great-grandfather was born in 1902, western Michigan. Raised on a ranch in central Oregon and based on his stories ( he passed in 1994 from old age and inactivity with a clear head) I'd say that was correct. Aside from a train ride to Oregon as a tyke, his childhood was very much a continuation of the prior era, 1860-1890. No amenities on the hardscrabble subsistence ranch the family owned, his older brother broke wild horses and sold them , they cut cordwood and delivered it to the Willamette River boats for some scarce cash. The few photographs surviving show a lopsided roughsawn two-room house and pole barn covered in home-split shakes. My earliest memory of the man I was 4 years old, splitting shakes in the woodshed on a snowy day with a mallet and the froe he claimed was his fathers. Up into the 1980's he and grandma grew or traded for probably half of what food and other consumables they needed to live. Thrifty with themselves and generous with family and strangers alike, they have been a cherished memory for me, source of many stories my kids grew up hearing, and a connection I miss deeply to a simpler and more honorable time.
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2018, 02:11:34 am »

I've always considered the "Old West" era to be from the end of the War between the States up to at least to 1912 when Arizona and New Mexico became states. It might be said it continued until WWI when a lot of rural people (mostly the men) traveled far from home for the first time to serve in the military and discovered the big wide world. Prior to that, at least in many rural areas there wasn't all that much difference between 1890 (generally accepted as still part of the Era) and 1910 to possibly as late as 1915.

My $.02 worth,
Dave

Well put. I'm gladly adding my 2 cents to this definiton

-Bulldog
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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2018, 07:02:59 am »

I'd say to that Dave T pretty much 'hit it on the head'. I'd add that there different periods within that time but all interrelated. As a side note, my Dad born and raised in Iowa said that when he served aboard a ship during WW2 that several guys from the Boston/New York City area asked him if he/those in the Midwest still had problems with Indian raids and other problems related.
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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2018, 09:43:43 am »

I'd say to that Dave T pretty much 'hit it on the head'. I'd add that there different periods within that time but all interrelated. As a side note, my Dad born and raised in Iowa said that when he served aboard a ship during WW2 that several guys from the Boston/New York City area asked him if he/those in the Midwest still had problems with Indian raids and other problems related.
 Grin Grin


I reckon I would go with the original definition - 1863 to 1893 ?  the land rush for the cherokee strip was pretty much the end of free land .
We saw the same thing here (Australia) from 1850 to 1875 most all of the decent useable land had been gobbled up by the squatters (your free range ranchers) - by 1900 it was settled, fenced, and the process of carving up the big estates (closer settlement) had started - things were rough and tough in the period that followed, (say 1890 to 1915) but different, there was some semblance of organised law, 
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« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2018, 09:57:57 am »

In 1883, Buffalo Bill's Wild West was founded in North Platte, Nebraska - when Buffalo Bill Cody turned his real life adventure into the first outdoor western show.

This would mark of the end of the Wild West/Old West so beloved by dime novelists.

Yes, cattle would still be driven, and outlaws roamed, as did Indians - but the railroad soon civilized the towns on the line and barbed wire did the rest.

The Old West ceased to be the day they sold tickets to see it.

The Time-Life series 'The Old West' does a good accounting of what really happened.

Scouts Out!

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« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2018, 02:19:16 pm »


The Old West ceased to be the day they sold tickets to see it.


Not trying to be argumentative but please explain this? Western/Frontier literature, both personal and researched histories, relate a great deal of "Old West" activity being a part of everyday life well after the date of that ticket sale.

Dave
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Trailrider
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« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2018, 03:02:15 pm »

You can argue when the "Old West" began as being post-CW, although I think a good case can be made for when the first explorers and settlers began to push west from eastern seaboard, over the Cumberland mountains.  As far as when "The Old West" ended, IMHO, it basically faded out when the automobile became more commonly owned. But even then, I would extend that to when the first paved roads became common, allowing more ease of travel and communication west of the Mississippi. Until then, transportation, aside from the railroads, depended on animals, as it had since the domestication of the horse! (If you consider outlaws such as Bonnie & Clyde as part of the Old West, their use of the automobile would certainly meet the above criteria!)

IMHO, the Old West provided an outlet for the excess energies of the Eastern cities. A hundred-and-fifty years ago, a restless young man (and even some women), could set out for the frontier to seek his/her fortune. Some, like Billy McCarty (aka Billy The Kid), a product of the New York slums, came to a fatal end. Some, like Kid Russell, scion of a prominent transportation outfit (Russell, Majors and Waddell), sent west to "get it out of his system", became a cowboy...and a chronicler of the West through his paintings and sculptures. (I often look at a certain Western sunset and comment that Charlie Russell is busy today!)

Sadly, we no longer have a frontier for our youth to go to very easily, if at all.  Our only frontier is straight up!  And, while this may be an oversimplification, I think it accounts for a lot of the problems our youth sometimes get into!  Maybe, in twenty or thirty or fifty or a hundred years, access to the "Final Frontier" will be cheap enough to give them a "New West" to settle!
Ad LEO! Ad LUNA! Ad Ares! AD ASTRA!  (To Low Earth Orbit! To the Moon! To Mars! TO THE STARS!)
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Ride to the sound of the guns, but watch out for bushwhackers! Godspeed to all in harm's way in the defense of Freedom! God Bless America!

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Tsalagidave
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Dave Rodgers


« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2018, 03:24:57 pm »

Although the US Census Department declared the frontier "closed" after the Oklahoma Land Rush of 1889, the Wild West lived on much later than that and the testimonies given by the other members here serve as good examples.  It can arguably be said that the "Wild West" lives on today.  Despite the current "snowflake" phenomenon, the values of rugged individualism, admiration of wide open spaces and personal property, private firearm ownership, the right to self-defense or making citizen's arrests, and a desire for disaster preparation are all still very evident.  I've been fortunate to visit and work in many countries around the world but that "Wild West" or "Cowboy" - "Can-do" mentality is very American and it makes us stand out like sore thumbs... but in a good way.

I would probably rephrase it at the period of the "American West" which started off with the Lewis and Clark expedition to continue through what is known as the "Expansionist Era" that lasted to right up to the beginning of the American Civil War. This would include the Mountain Man, Westward Movement, California Gold Rush, & Sierra Nevada gold/silver rush. Following the American Civil War, a succession of westward land rushes continued incrementally right up into the 1950s. My friends and I still to this day are "horse-people" with guns at the ready and hospitable hearts for those in need.  So from where I sit, it aint over yet. However, if I were to call it the "Old West" for the sake of "wild woolly, heroes & outlaws" I would probably cite it from 1804 to about 1935.

In either case, I don't know why the author failed to identify the 60-year period before the end of the Civil War and at least add that on to the years leading up to the 1890s.

-Dave
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« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2018, 05:13:55 pm »

Although the US Census Department declared the frontier "closed" after the Oklahoma Land Rush of 1889, the Wild West lived on much later than that and the testimonies given by the other members here serve as good examples.  It can arguably be said that the "Wild West" lives on today.  Despite the current "snowflake" phenomenon, the values of rugged individualism, admiration of wide open spaces and personal property, private firearm ownership, the right to self-defense or making citizen's arrests, and a desire for disaster preparation are all still very evident.  I've been fortunate to visit and work in many countries around the world but that "Wild West" or "Cowboy" - "Can-do" mentality is very American and it makes us stand out like sore thumbs... but in a good way.

You must have missed australia in youre travels - western queensland - the drier parts of northern territory
We were still doing overland cattle drives of 1500 miles in the 1960's
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Tsalagidave
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Dave Rodgers


« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2018, 02:03:39 pm »

Good point.  I should not have forgotten about our Australian cousins.  I have only been to the Sydney area so that does not count. I have not yet seen the real Australia which still has a wide open howling wilderness.

-Dave
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Cas City Historical Society (Moderators: St. George, Silver Creek Slim)  |  Topic: Vintage news - The wild West only lasted 30 years « previous next »
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