Javascript DHTML Drop Down Menu Powered by dhtml-menu-builder.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 15, 2018, 07:02:31 pm

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
* Home FlashChat Help Calendar Login Register
Currently there are 0 Users in the Cas City Chat Rooms!
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Cas City Historical Society (Moderators: St. George, Silver Creek Slim)  |  Topic: the "six o'clock" bullseye target hold 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: the "six o'clock" bullseye target hold  (Read 1257 times)
Navy Six
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 314


« on: December 14, 2017, 05:09:48 pm »


Since this is the Christmas season and everyone should be in a good mood, I thought it the right time to ask a dumb question: what is the origin/reason for holding "six o'clock" on a black bullseye target? I don't prefer this hold myself as it seems to me that you are sighting in a gun to shoot high. I almost always hear the "experts" advocate this sighting method but no explanation as to why. I have done a good deal of reading over the years and about the only one I remember not partial to this sight picture was Elmer Keith who I will paraphrase "the place to aim is where you want to hit". This is simply curiosity on my part.  Hope everyone has a blessed Christmas!
Logged

Only Blackpowder Is Interesting
Coffinmaker
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4896


« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2017, 07:20:19 pm »

Hummmmmmmm.  Ah .............. Well ............ Dunno...... Except Maybe Perhaps ..........

The Military.  I blame the Military.  Corse military sights.  Every military pistol or rifle I have had experience with in "as issued" form had simple "partridge" type slot and post sights.  At anything over 30 feet, the front sight covered the average black bullseye (Why doe we cll it a bullseye anyway) completely.  Couldn't see the target.

Setting the target ON TOP of the post meant you could actually "see" the target.  Conversely, if you put the top of the post in the center of mass for a "human" target (yup, the ENEMY) you'd hit your adversary somewhere in the body clear out to about 200 paces.  Made it real easy to standardize training, sight picture, sight adjustments and hopefully ...... body count (Thanks MacNamara).

Personally, I have never sighted anything I shoot to a "6 o'clock" hold.  Always went with Elmer.  Always sighted to put my point of impact right behind my sight blade.

Anybody else???
Logged
Baltimore Ed
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 902



« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2017, 07:24:34 pm »

In my early newbe days of shooting my wife's uncle, who was an accomplished High Power shooter, taught me the sight picture that I needed to strive for when shooting iron sighted rifles as ' pumpkin on a post'. The black bullseye being the pumpkin and the front sight the post. Now where that came from I couldn't say. My personal opinion is that it's much easier to see the top edge of the front sight against the lower edge of the black bull with a determined amount of daylight between those edges and on either side of the front sight than to put the black front sight in the middle of a black bull. Can't see the edges so you don't really know where you're aiming. You don't have this problem with scopes or red dots so you can aim where you want to hit.
Logged

"Give'em hell, Pike"
Will Ketchum
Chief of Detectives
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2755


Pete Ersland


« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2017, 08:21:31 pm »

I think Coffinmaker pretty well nailed it. When the Marines trained us we shot at a 36" bulls eye at 300 yards. In order to calculate your battle sights we used our 300 yard dope minus 6 clicks. This would put us at point of aim hits. (One click equal one minute of angle at 300 yards 1 click would move the point of aim 3")
As Coffinmaker said the 6 o'clock hold gives a more precise aiming point.

Will Ketchum
Logged

Will Ketchum's Rules of W&CAS: 1 Be Safe. 2 Have Fun. 3  Look Good Doin It!
F&AM, NRA Endowment Life, SASS Life 4222, NCOWS Life 133.  USMC for ever.
Madison, WI
Dave T
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 280


« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2017, 08:47:07 pm »

From the time I bought my first handgun in the spring of 1967 until last week at the range, I've always wanted my guns to shoot where I put the top of the front sight. Used to always sight in at 25 yards but now a days I can't see the target clearly enough to hold a group so I've been setting adjustable sights for 20 yards. With fixed sights I'm more picky about windage but will take a hit a little above the POA at 20 yards. That will make hitting the boiler room of a silhouette out to 50 yards easy.

Dave

PS: Partridge is a bird. Patridege is a style of sight. (smile)
Logged
Major 2
"Still running against the wind"
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 11035


Cracker Cow Cavalry


« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2017, 07:48:52 am »

In my early newbe days of shooting my wife's uncle, who was an accomplished High Power shooter, taught me the sight picture that I needed to strive for when shooting iron sighted rifles as ' pumpkin on a post'. The black bullseye being the pumpkin and the front sight the post. Now where that came from I couldn't say. My personal opinion is that it's much easier to see the top edge of the front sight against the lower edge of the black bull with a determined amount of daylight between those edges and on either side of the front sight than to put the black front sight in the middle of a black bull. Can't see the edges so you don't really know where you're aiming. You don't have this problem with scopes or red dots so you can aim where you want to hit.

You shot your wife's Uncle ?  Grin 
Logged

when planets align...do the deal !
Trailrider
CAS-L Ghost Rider
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2073



WWW
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2017, 12:19:22 pm »

While I was taught by several instructors (NOT in the military...Air Force didn't give much small arms instruction...just shoot at the center of mass on a silhouette target with a Navy-reject M10 revolver at 25 yds), I have always used a "center hold" with the top of the front sight where I wanted the shot to go.  I've heard this called a "Navy hold", but since the Marines always taught "pumpkin-on-a-post", quien sabe? 
Logged

Ride to the sound of the guns, but watch out for bushwhackers! Godspeed to all in harm's way in the defense of Freedom! God Bless America!

Your obedient servant,
Trailrider,
Bvt. Lt. Col. Commanding,
Southern District
Dept. of the Platte, GAF
Coffinmaker
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4896


« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2017, 07:21:58 pm »

Wonder if that's why folks look at me funny when I talk about going Pesant hunting each fall.  I really like Peasant funder glass and roast Pesant.  Funny how spellcheck doesn't work alla time idnit.  Deadly lampshade and all .........  Grin

And a Partridge inna Pear Tree.  Teemany "e's" (snicker)
Logged
Coal Creek Griff
Top Active Citizen
*
Online Online

Posts: 1469



« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2017, 07:38:39 pm »

I don't know where I got this, but I've always thought that the 6-o'clock hold was the traditional target-sighting hold and that the "combat" center hold came along later in the 20th Century.  I tend to be more precise with the 6-o'clock hold when I'm trying for tight groups with open sights.  If I'm in a hurry, like shooting someone who is  trying to kill me, I'd prefer a gun sighted for "combat" hold.  My "old west" guns are sighted for 6-o'clock hold.  My defensive guns are sighted for center hold.

CC Griff
Logged

Manager, WT Ranch--Coal Creek Division

BOLD #921
BOSS #196
1860 Henry Rifle Shooter #173
SSS #573
Baltimore Ed
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 902



« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2017, 10:49:27 pm »

Why would I shoot my wife's Uncle Tommy? He was a swell guy. Took me to Camp Perry even. Maybe I should have stuck a comma in there.
Logged

"Give'em hell, Pike"
pony express
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3191


« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2017, 09:14:55 am »

Why would I shoot my wife's Uncle Tommy? He was a swell guy. Took me to Camp Perry even. Maybe I should have stuck a comma in there.

Proper punctuation saves lives!
Logged
1961MJS
Top Active Citizen
*
Online Online

Posts: 171


« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2017, 09:25:23 pm »

Hi,

I shoot 6 or more bullseye matches every year.  The six-o'clock hold is used so that you can see that the front and back iron sights are aligned and that they are under the target ball.  A center hold is much harder to see with a black front sight and a black front sight super-imposed on a black target. 

Later      Grin
Logged

Mike
GAF #797
Brevet Lieutenant Colonel
Division of Oklahoma
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Cas City Historical Society (Moderators: St. George, Silver Creek Slim)  |  Topic: the "six o'clock" bullseye target hold « previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.056 seconds with 21 queries.