Javascript DHTML Drop Down Menu Powered by dhtml-menu-builder.com
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email?
April 27, 2018, 01:43:02 am
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Search:
Advanced search
Currently there are
0 Users in the Cas City Chat Rooms!
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
|
CAS TOPICS
|
The Darksider's Den
(Moderators:
Marshal Halloway
,
Major 2
,
Capt Quirk
) | Topic:
Black MZ
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
« previous
next »
Pages:
[
1
]
Author
Topic: Black MZ (Read 1276 times)
Dave T
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 189
Black MZ
«
on:
November 16, 2017, 02:34:28 pm »
Tweet
My aging brain thinks it remembers reading here (Cas City Forums) that Alliant's new BP substitute Black MZ is just American Pioneer Powder repackaged under a new name. Now I can't find that comment and am asking if this is the case or, if not where Black MZ ranks among the various substitutes?
Dave
Logged
Coffinmaker
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 4584
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #1 on:
November 16, 2017, 04:10:12 pm »
DT,
Black MZ joins Pinnacle, Shocky's gold and several others as APP in a different package. Made by the APP folks. It is an excellent BP Substitute. Very easy to clean up, not very corrosive and makes Beau Coup smoke. Currently I have only seen it in a single granulation and I have not seen an "f" number applied to it. I would treat it as ffg. The granulation of all the APP type products is quite a bit larger than BP.
Like APP and APP Premium, it is loaded with NO compression. Load until it just kisses the bottom of the projectile and a good crimp.
Logged
Dave T
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 189
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #2 on:
November 16, 2017, 04:45:20 pm »
Thanks CM. In my part of the country (central AZ desert) I can't find APP anywhere. I was thinking this Alliant product might be more available and it would be a way to try this particular (APP type) black powder substitute.
Dave
Logged
hellgate
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 1536
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #3 on:
November 16, 2017, 05:25:08 pm »
Sportsman's Warehouse has the best prices on it.
T
Logged
"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill
Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!
SASS#3302L
REGULATOR
RUCAS#58
Wolverton Mt. Peacekeepers
SCORRS
DGB#29
NRA Life
CASer since 1992
Dave T
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 189
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #4 on:
November 16, 2017, 08:19:47 pm »
Quote from: hellgate on November 16, 2017, 05:25:08 pm
Sportsman's Warehouse has the best prices on it.
T
I'm about a mile from them as the crow (or raven in our case) flies. I'll go there tomorrow and have a look see. Thanks for the tip.
Dave
Logged
wildman1
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 2624
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #5 on:
November 17, 2017, 08:00:13 am »
I called Alliant because I had a couple of questions about Black MZ.
I was told that it likes compression. Do NOT use any lube with it. It is the same as APP 3f.
My wife uses it instead of real BP. It is less than $10 per lb. from Sportsmans Warehouse.
wM1
Logged
WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC. If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.
Bibbyman
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 314
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #6 on:
November 17, 2017, 08:24:15 am »
I and others have found that BlackMZ is noticeably more powerful than real black. I load about 2/3 the volume of real black in my Cowboy loads and still have a load with plenty of snap and smoke. Even the full case black powder shooters comment on how much smoke my BlackMZ loads produce.
I spoke with one guy that shoots BlackMZ loads in his 1911 45 Auto! Full, compressed load is stout enough to cycle the action.
I wouldn't recommend using BlackMZ in antique guns of questionable conditions.
Logged
Dave T
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 189
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #7 on:
November 17, 2017, 01:53:10 pm »
LOL - Some say no compression, some say it likes compression. Some say treat it like FFg and another says treat it like FFFg. Since I bought a pound this morning I reckon I'll have to find out myself. (smile)
And by the way, what's this "no lube" business. Does that mean shoot unlubed cast alloy bullets with this stuff? That doesn't sound right!
Dave
Logged
pony express
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 3090
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #8 on:
November 17, 2017, 02:29:07 pm »
They don't need to be lubed, but it's ok to shoot regular commercial smokeless lubed bullets with it.
Logged
Bibbyman
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 314
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #9 on:
November 17, 2017, 03:22:44 pm »
I use water to clean and when dry, use Thompson Bore Butter on a patch to protect bore, etc. Lately, I've use a damp bore snake, followed by brush, then dry patch, then Bore Butter.
Logged
Coffinmaker
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 4584
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #10 on:
November 17, 2017, 08:26:19 pm »
Dave T
Black MZ and APP based propellants REQUIRE no lube. You can use lube, but you do not need to. You can shoot bullets with smokeless lube, or you can shoot bullets "as cast." Doesn't matter
The residue left behind after firing serves as a lubricant. It also is not cumulative. Each round fired removes the previous firing's residue. At the end of a 6 stage match, there is no more residue in the bore than there was after the first stage.
BP and Subs are loaded by volume. FFFg APP is loaded exactly like FFF Goex. By volume. Same same FFg. If you scooping 1.3cc of FFFg you also scoop 1.3cc of FFg. Your 1.3cc scoop will throw 1.3cc no matter what the "f" count is. You can of course, play with your specific volume of powder depending on what you want to accomplish. Dropping the amount of powder will require an amount of filler to make up for the reduced amount of powder so you still wind up with 1.3cc in the chamber (If that is where your seating your ball).
Ain't guns FUN!!!
Logged
wildman1
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 2624
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #11 on:
November 18, 2017, 05:38:30 am »
Quote from: Dave T on November 17, 2017, 01:53:10 pm
LOL - Some say no compression, some say it likes compression. Some say treat it like FFg and another says treat it like FFFg. Since I bought a pound this morning I reckon I'll have to find out myself. (smile)
And by the way, what's this "no lube" business. Does that mean shoot unlubed cast alloy bullets with this stuff? That doesn't sound right!
Dave
Before I would believe anything about it I would call the tech reps at Aliant.
That's what I did.
OR read the loading instructions on the bottle.
Says "seat the bullet FIRMLY on the powder".
"Use NO lube".
wM1
Logged
WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC. If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.
hellgate
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 1536
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #12 on:
November 18, 2017, 07:46:46 pm »
My impression of APP/Black MZ is that it has about the same UMPH as BP in my 357mag pistol loads. I usually shoot 777 which is snappier than any BP or other sub but I can't tell the difference in recoil between the other powders. To me, it is a soft shooting powder. It could be that the coarse grains put less weight per volume of powder in the small case and thus less energy.
Logged
"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill
Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!
SASS#3302L
REGULATOR
RUCAS#58
Wolverton Mt. Peacekeepers
SCORRS
DGB#29
NRA Life
CASer since 1992
Rooster Ron Wayne
Rooster
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 142
Lube your Balls & Cap your Nipples ~ Just Sayin !
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #13 on:
April 03, 2018, 08:52:40 pm »
I have not had the chance to use MKZ yet .
Just because I have so much APP on hand .
But I am going to give it a try the next time I need to buy some powder .
It sound good and at 1\2 the price of APP.
Rooster Ron Wayne
Logged
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
1. Jesus Christ
2. The American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
Bibbyman
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 314
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #14 on:
April 04, 2018, 05:40:41 am »
I ran two tests with BlackMZ vs Grafs Reenactor and BlackMZ vs Goex FFg. I shot 30 rounds each through a pair of Taylor's Smoke Wagons in 44WCF gunfighter style.
Here is a video of the BlackMZ vs Grafs Reenactor.
https://youtu.be/O9KqK1laIpw
Here is the video of BlackMZ vs Goex FFg.
https://youtu.be/3N33aSNLnCk
Logged
Dave T
Top Active Citizen
Offline
Posts: 189
Re: Black MZ
«
Reply #15 on:
April 04, 2018, 11:10:19 am »
Bibbyman,
Thanks for doing those videos and for posting them. Informative.
On the subject of Black MZ, has anyone shooting it chronographed their loads to see how it compares to BP in velocity (same bullet same volume of powder)?
Dave
Logged
Pages:
[
1
]
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
|
CAS TOPICS
|
The Darksider's Den
(Moderators:
Marshal Halloway
,
Major 2
,
Capt Quirk
) | Topic:
Black MZ
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Cas City
-----------------------------
=> Cas City - Site Support & Comments
=> CAS City Classifieds
=> Greetings!
-----------------------------
CAS TOPICS
-----------------------------
=> The Longbranch
=> CAS Matches & Events
===> Archived Matches & Events
=> Shooter's Meeting
=> CAS FAQ
=> The Leather Shop
=> Gun Reviews
=> The Powder Room - CAS reloading
=> The Darksider's Den
===> The Dark Arts
===> SHOTS
=> 1911 & Wild Bunch Shooting
=> NCOWS
=> WESTERN 3 GUN
=> Gunsmithing
-----------------------------
Special Interests - Groups & Societies
-----------------------------
=> Cas City Historical Society
===> The Old Fashioned Way
=> The American Plainsmen Society
=> Zoot Shooters
=> The Cutting Edge
=> The Barracks
===> GAF Regulations
===> GAF After Action Reports
===> Upcoming Musters
=> Cosie's Corner & Feed Bag
===> The Pantry
=> BOLD Chambers
=> RATS
=> Spencer Shooting Society
=> Shotguns
=> Colt Firearms
=> USFA CSS
=> Colt SAA Clones
===> Colt Long Gun Clones
=> SCORRS
=> STORM
=> Frontier Iron
=> BROW
===> The BROW Archive
=> 1860 Henry
=> The Winchester Model 1873
=> The Winchester Model 1876
=> The Winchester Model 1886
=> The Winchester Model 1892
-----------------------------
Regional Topics
-----------------------------
=> Texas
=> Chinook Country
=> Kansas
=> Nebraska
=> CAStm down under
-----------------------------
GENERAL TOPICS
-----------------------------
=> The Shootin' Range
=> Tall Tales
=> Saddlebag Tales
===> ST Comments
=> Books & Movies
About CasCity.com
*
Contact us
*
Privacy Policy
*
Terms of Use
Loading...