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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Cas City Historical Society (Moderators: St. George, Silver Creek Slim)  |  Topic: Firearm correlation... 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Firearm correlation...  (Read 1967 times)
William R. Foster
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« on: November 13, 2017, 06:36:01 am »


Im curious what handgun/ rifle/ shotgun would match up and make sense based on time period?  For instance, if I had a uberti yellowboy,  what would be the common revolver carried during that same time period? Is there a good guide to go off of? 
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Reverend P. Babcock Chase
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 07:54:05 am »

Howdy Chuck,

Before all the historians weigh in, I'd like to point out the enjoyment of shooting the guns you like. Also remember that the 66 was made for a number of years, so you have a range of six-guns from which to choose - everything from percussion revolvers thru conversions, open tops 73's and Schofields. Any sxs shotgun with or without hammers. A 97 would probably be a stretch.

Just remember, to have fun.

Reverend Chase
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Jake C
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 09:29:51 am »

Reverend Chase gave the perfect answer, but a good, easy pairing would be a '66 Yellowboy and a Conversion-style revolver, either Colt or Remington. That'd be a good pairing for representing the early 1870's, a period where Yellowboys would be common enough all over, and your handgun would be affordable and still fairly 'state of the art,' for lack of a better term. A Yellowboy and a percussion revolver would also work very well.
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 10:51:02 am »


The 1866 was only ever manufactured in ONE caliber/cartridge, the .44 Henry Flat and Colt equivalent.  There is no historically "correct" cartridge available in the 1866 reproduction. 

In the heyday of the 1866, the companion would have been the Colt Open Top chambered in 44 Henry Flat or the Colt equivalent (I don't remember it's name).  Both of which were Rim Fire and no longer available.  Most Colt conversions were either 38 (true 38s) or 44 Colt.

An 1866 chambered for 44 Special will probably run 44 Colt cartridges.  The Uberti Open Top can be had in 44 Special (run 44 Colt) or chambered for 44 Colt.  HOWEVER:

Just starting out, I would probably suggest a rifle chambered for 38 Spl (you mention a liking for an 1866) and caliber matching handguns.

Your Call
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William R. Foster
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 05:28:56 pm »

Thank yall. Local guy has a 66 uberti in .38spl for 600 im eyeing. Another question, any issue with a 92 matching up with a SAA? I assume the SAA would need to be pre war BP frame?
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Abilene
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 06:42:26 pm »

Thank yall. Local guy has a 66 uberti in .38spl for 600 im eyeing. Another question, any issue with a 92 matching up with a SAA? I assume the SAA would need to be pre war BP frame?

I think you are a little confused on the terminology.  A Pre-War SAA would be mid-1890's to present, with the transverse spring loaded latch for the base pin.  The BP frame was 1873 to mid-1890's and has the screw in front of the frame to secure the base pin.  If you are trying to match up a '92 time-wise to an SAA then really either style would be fine, whereas an earlier period would require the BP frame if you are trying to be authentic.
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William R. Foster
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2017, 09:51:02 pm »

I think you are a little confused on the terminology.  A Pre-War SAA would be mid-1890's to present, with the transverse spring loaded latch for the base pin.  The BP frame was 1873 to mid-1890's and has the screw in front of the frame to secure the base pin.  If you are trying to match up a '92 time-wise to an SAA then really either style would be fine, whereas an earlier period would require the BP frame if you are trying to be authentic.

Thanks. Perhaps the old/new timelines on the cimarron model p are misleading? Not sure. They have old model/ BP frame up to 1896.
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Abilene
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 10:28:23 pm »

Thanks. Perhaps the old/new timelines on the cimarron model p are misleading? Not sure. They have old model/ BP frame up to 1896.

Right.  BP frame = older, Pre-War = newer
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Books OToole
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 08:57:13 am »


The 1866 was only ever manufactured in ONE caliber/cartridge, the .44 Henry Flat and Colt equivalent.  There is no historically "correct" cartridge available in the 1866 reproduction. 



The George Maddis Winchester book has illustrations of two different methods of converting a 66 to center fire.  And I have documentation of a couple of 66s converted to .44 Russian.

That is my preferred CAS rifle.  Next season I plan to pair it with a (Uberti) Smith & Wesson Russian.

For my later characters I use a (Chiappa) 92 Winchester short rifle in .44-40 paired with an 1875 Remington (Uberti).  I have paired that rifle with a (Berretta) Smith & Wesson New Model Three in .45 S & W [Schofield].  I really want a New Model Three reproduction in .44-40.

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Dave T
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2017, 08:16:01 pm »

And I have documentation of a couple of 66s converted to .44 Russian. Books

Have you ever seen a Henry converted to 44 Russian? I think that would be a good choice to come close to the 44 Henry in a centerfire cartridge that's available and reloadable.

Dave
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William R. Foster
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2017, 09:35:33 pm »

So if a person had a repro 66 yellowboy in 38, what would be an acceptable repro revolver to pair that with?  Atleast that would make sense chronologically.
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Abilene
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2017, 10:42:37 pm »

It all depends on what time period that YOU are portraying.  Firearms of all types were used for a long time, even after newer or more modern models came into existence.  So for whatever time period you place yourself in, you can shoot anything made up to that point, but nothing that came later.  In 1866 your handguns would all be percussion.  Conversions and cartridge opentops came around '71,  and then in 1873 the SAA came along, although pretty expensive and not really available to the public at first.  I've been talking about Colts, but other makers will be similar time period.  So in 1871 or later you might have a '66 and an Opentop, as they could shoot the same ammo.  Of course your modern versions can be .38's, but the guns are still the same models as back then.  And in 1880 you might have a '73 and SAA both in 44-40...or you might still be shooting that trusty ol' '66.  Percussion and conversion pistols were a lot more common in the old west than SAA's, despite Hollywood.
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William R. Foster
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« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2017, 09:15:00 am »

It all depends on what time period that YOU are portraying.  Firearms of all types were used for a long time, even after newer or more modern models came into existence.  So for whatever time period you place yourself in, you can shoot anything made up to that point, but nothing that came later.  In 1866 your handguns would all be percussion.  Conversions and cartridge opentops came around '71,  and then in 1873 the SAA came along, although pretty expensive and not really available to the public at first.  I've been talking about Colts, but other makers will be similar time period.  So in 1871 or later you might have a '66 and an Opentop, as they could shoot the same ammo.  Of course your modern versions can be .38's, but the guns are still the same models as back then.  And in 1880 you might have a '73 and SAA both in 44-40...or you might still be shooting that trusty ol' '66.  Percussion and conversion pistols were a lot more common in the old west than SAA's, despite Hollywood.

Thats something i was curious about. Im not really wanting to deal with BP percussion revolvers, however for the sake of uniformity id like to keep ammo the same between rifle and handgun. Would it be acceptable to use 1860 armies that were in 38spl? Since to my knowledge that wasnt really a thing.
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Jake C
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« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2017, 09:19:43 am »

I think for CAS purposes, you'll be just fine. I think that you'd be okay for your standard reenacting purposes too. I think the only place where a .38 caliber 1860 Army would be an issue would (maybe, I need to stress that since I don't know for sure) would be in NCOWS shooting.

If you want a .38 and you're concerned about authenticity, why not go for an 1851 Navy conversion? a hair better on the historical accuracy department, and still perfectly serviceable.
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William R. Foster
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« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2017, 09:51:15 am »

I think for CAS purposes, you'll be just fine. I think that you'd be okay for your standard reenacting purposes too. I think the only place where a .38 caliber 1860 Army would be an issue would (maybe, I need to stress that since I don't know for sure) would be in NCOWS shooting.

If you want a .38 and you're concerned about authenticity, why not go for an 1851 Navy conversion? a hair better on the historical accuracy department, and still perfectly serviceable.

Mostly grip size. The 1860 Army grip being longer and wider fits my hand better than the smaller navy grip. I was honestly looking at one of the taylor and co gunfighters if i went SAA for this purpose.
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Books OToole
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Michael Tatham


« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2017, 11:15:25 am »

Have you ever seen a Henry converted to 44 Russian? I think that would be a good choice to come close to the 44 Henry in a centerfire cartridge that's available and reloadable.

Dave

It is interesting that there is quite a bit of documentation for '66s being converted;  but I have never found anything for a Henry. Sad

I have a repro Henry that is set up for .44 Russian.  I usually pair it up with an Open Top or a Richards-Mason conversion (and a big Bowie knife).

And:

The New Model Army (aka 1858) Remingtons were converted as early as 1866.  The old R&D cylinders are pretty close to being PC.

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« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2017, 06:05:25 pm »

For my NCOWS originals character in 1875, I use a "new" 73 Winchester which was only made in 44/40 at that
time, and a 51 navy conversion shooting heeled bullets, in 38 long colt brass.


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