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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Major 2, Capt Quirk)  |  Topic: Milling 1873 brass carrier 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Milling 1873 brass carrier  (Read 812 times)
FuriousFritz
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« on: October 20, 2017, 06:44:29 am »


Howdy,

when i shoot with Triple 7 and my 1873 rifle chambered in .357 and i clean the rifle the next day, the carrier stucks and i have to disassemble all parts.
My thoughts are, if the brass carrier is milled the way like the attached picture, that there will be less fouling at the carrier respectively it could be easily brushed off by a bit of oil/cleaner.

Has anybody done that to a brass carrier and got some experiences?

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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2017, 09:33:56 am »

Hello Fritz.

Yes.  I have set up "lots" of Uberti rifles with the carrier milled to reduce weight and drag.  It will have almost no effect on the amount fouling you get in the carrier mortice.  The fouling is caused by an oversize chamber and brass that doesn't expand enough to seal the chamber against "Blow-By."

Your best bet for cleaning the carrier is water with some vinegar added.  I don't use Trip 7 at all.  In the past it has caused rust.  With APP which is my Sub of choice, I drop the carrier in the sink with the brass.  Just water and a goodly amount of vinegar.
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Lefty Dude
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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2017, 01:23:56 pm »

You could always switch to a dash cartridge, and your problem would be solved.
Remember; Winchester never chambered the 73 for a straight walled cartridge.
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2017, 01:48:19 pm »


Aw Poop.  I should have added ..... "Framing" out the carrier block does reduce the reciprocating weight of the carrier and reduces the drag in the mortice.  Unless your interested in confirming your place in the top 10% of competitors, not really worth it.  Looks real trick though.

In my personal opinion, Triple 7 isn't your best choice for a propellant.  If real BP is a problem to acquire, I'd suggest APP.  Easier to clean up and less prone to corrosion. 

Since your having a problem with Blow-By, it sounds like you may wish to consider Annealing your cases (Sorry Lefty, Annealed cases seal right up).  A softer upper case will expand (obturate) and seal the chamber.
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Lefty Dude
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« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2017, 10:00:37 pm »

That is a PITA, Pard, A 32-20 is the answer. Many top Frontiersman shooters here in the West Shoot Dash Cartridges.
Someday it might catch on in the East.
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Abilene
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« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2017, 10:05:08 pm »

Just an observation - I am of the opinion that the milled carrier in the picture in the first post is not SASS legal.  The side has been milled all the way to the top which will show with the action closed and therefore be an illegal external modification.
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Pettifogger
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« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2017, 02:16:55 am »

Original Winchesters in .32-20 had carriers like that in the photo.


* P1000508 (1).jpg (10.16 KB, 256x192 - viewed 33 times.)
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Abilene
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« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2017, 06:44:13 am »

Welll that is good to know!
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2017, 11:07:05 am »


LEFTY!!  DUDE!!  Shocked

I must agree.  Since I discovered "Zen and Cartridge Case Annealing" I have spent many rewarding hours, alone in my garage, roasting the end of my cartridges.  So satisfying.  So ..... SKUL NUMBING BORING!!  Gadzooks what an absolute DRAG.  Necessitous however, under certain circumstances like .... Mine.

Dash calibers are an elegant solution.  Unless you already own a full stable (Eastern word for Barn) of 38/357.  In which case it becomes a really elegant EXPENSIVE solution.  Annealing (Thank you OD#3) Startup only runs about 20 - 25 bucks.  So my bottom line for a generous 38/357 chamber is to anneal.  Nanny Nanny Poo Poo Thibbit   Cool
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Noz
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2017, 08:56:35 pm »

Have you ever tried doing the annealing by dipping the cases in a hot lead pot?
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Noz
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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2017, 04:39:27 pm »

Hey Noz .....  Cheesy

Never even entered my feeble mind.  Some lustrum ago, after a run-in with lead poisoning, my physician expressed I should never stand over a hot lead pot again.  I haven't.  Won't.  So it's just me and a hot torch. Undecided

Forgot.  I haven't shot 38s in a long long time.  I shoot 45s.  For my guns that digest full size 45 Colt cases, I simply start out with 44-40 brass and fire form it to 45.  Works Trix!!
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Lefty Dude
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« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2017, 06:11:31 pm »

Hey Noz .....  Cheesy

Never even entered my feeble mind.  Some lustrum ago, after a run-in with lead poisoning, my physician expressed I should never stand over a hot lead pot again.  I haven't.  Won't.  So it's just me and a hot torch. Undecided

Forgot.  I haven't shot 38s in a long long time.  I shoot 45s.  For my guns that digest full size 45 Colt cases, I simply start out with 44-40 brass and fire form it to 45.  Works Trix!!

AH, HA, See you are a Dash-Cartridge sort of fella after all !!!!!
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pony express
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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2017, 06:54:52 pm »

So he's actually a 45-40 shooter!

I tried annealing in a lead pot before. You know, as hard of a time as I have trying to solder things, and the solder just runs off, there's ONE thing I can really get melted lead to stick to- cartridge cases!

I use a propane torch and a variable speed drill, with a bit out of my vast selection of tools(AKA junk) that fits close enough in the primer pocket for it to sit on and spin, but loose enough that when I tip it over the water bucket, the case easily falls of.
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Reverend P. Babcock Chase
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« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2017, 08:20:19 pm »

Howdy Folks,

I'll admit my ignorance. I should know, but what is a dash cartridge.

Reverend Chase
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Pettifogger
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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2017, 08:41:59 pm »

Howdy Folks,

I'll admit my ignorance. I should know, but what is a dash cartridge.

Reverend Chase

.32-20
.38-40
.44-40

These were original old black powder cartridges.  The first number is the caliber then a "dash" and the second number was the original BP powder charge in grains.
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Reverend P. Babcock Chase
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« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2017, 09:24:41 am »

Thanx Pettifogger,

I should have figured that out on my own. Now, to further confuse the issue, it seems to me that the dashes used in cartridge designations are sometimes use slashes (/). Is this a 45 Colt vs. 45 Long Colt type deal?

Reverend Chase
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2017, 10:26:27 am »

PBC,

Not Pettifogger here.  Didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express (that I admit to), but just for edification and extended knowledge (same thing) there is no such thing as a 45 Long Colt.  Miss-nomer.  I don't even think anyone knows how it got started.  Or Why.  Or Where.  Or When.  Sorta like the term "Clone" (fingernails on a Chalk Board).  Those exsteamed scribes whom refer to 45 "Long Colt" only demonstrate a certain level of ignorance.
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Lefty Dude
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« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2017, 01:55:24 pm »

Professor Marvel, please step in here and correct the error of his ways. There was actually a 45 Long  and a  45 Short. Early on in the cartridge's history.
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Reverend P. Babcock Chase
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« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2017, 03:22:32 pm »

Howdy all,

If you mine posts from years ago, you'll see that I'm well aware that there is no such thing as .45 Long Colt. We had a lively discussion about that years ago. The explanations for why Long Colt was correct were hilarious. Some argued that it was to differentiat between the Schofield round and the 45 Colt. Some even mentioned the 45 ACP being short. I think that the gummint did refer to a short and long 45, but not with the "Colt" added.

I only used that as an example of how cartridge naming sometimes gets bastardized. I would like to know whether the "dash" cartridges are also sometimes "slash" cartridges. examples: 44-40 or 44/40, 45-70 or 45/70. Anyone have a handle on this?

Reverend Chase
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greyhawk
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« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2017, 05:43:52 pm »

So he's actually a 45-40 shooter!

I tried annealing in a lead pot before. You know, as hard of a time as I have trying to solder things, and the solder just runs off, there's ONE thing I can really get melted lead to stick to- cartridge cases!


Ohh I get that !!! Cant solder to save me self - but I would take all bets on bullet lead sticking to my cases - too slow anyways.

I use a propane torch and a variable speed drill, with a bit out of my vast selection of tools(AKA junk) that fits close enough in the primer pocket for it to sit on and spin, but loose enough that when I tip it over the water bucket, the case easily falls of.

Stand a bunch of em up in a big flat tray of water (H2O) - have at it with the torch and as they get to the right temp tip em over in the water  - use a long screwdriver or a piece of brass rod in a wood handle to tip em - this is way much quicker than any method where ya have to do each one by itself - yeah - ya will burn an odd case - but the time saved doin it will make up for the few casualties
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Abilene
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« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2017, 06:48:52 pm »

Howdy all,

If you mine posts from years ago, you'll see that I'm well aware that there is no such thing as .45 Long Colt. We had a lively discussion about that years ago. The explanations for why Long Colt was correct were hilarious. Some argued that it was to differentiat between the Schofield round and the 45 Colt. Some even mentioned the 45 ACP being short. I think that the gummint did refer to a short and long 45, but not with the "Colt" added.

I only used that as an example of how cartridge naming sometimes gets bastardized. I would like to know whether the "dash" cartridges are also sometimes "slash" cartridges. examples: 44-40 or 44/40, 45-70 or 45/70. Anyone have a handle on this?

Reverend Chase


The Winchester dash calibers, let's use 44-40 for example.  Started off 44WCF which stood for Winchester Center Fire.  When Colt and others started chambering guns for these calibers, they didn't want a letter that stands for Winchester on their guns, so they changed it to 44-40.  That's when the dash came in.  Winchester continued using WCF.   So both are "correct" depending on the firearm.  I think the slash / is a bastardization. 

And as far as 45 Colt, that is what I will always call it, but "45 Long Colt" is written on cartridge boxes by some well-known manufacturers, so I would say it is acceptable even if not the best.
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greyhawk
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« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2017, 07:07:07 pm »

The Winchester dash calibers, let's use 44-40 for example.  Started off 44WCF which stood for Winchester Center Fire.  When Colt and others started chambering guns for these calibers, they didn't want a letter that stands for Winchester on their guns, so they changed it to 44-40.  That's when the dash came in.  Winchester continued using WCF.   So both are "correct" depending on the firearm.  I think the slash / is a bastardization. 

And as far as 45 Colt, that is what I will always call it, but "45 Long Colt" is written on cartridge boxes by some well-known manufacturers, so I would say it is acceptable even if not the best.

Dash n Slash ?
I always used the slash (as in 44/40) but have had ta mend me ways some - ya see - dash is acceptable in digi lingo but the slash means sumptin else entirely - will get ya in a pile o trouble wid file names n stuff on yr puter - ifn ya try ta save some other wise bodys edicated writings on the subject ya will git a message says - "uh no sorry ole son but that one aint gonna fly, pick another name please" - so dash we must eh
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FuriousFritz
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« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2017, 03:30:47 am »

Thanks partners for your ideas.
IŽll give annealing some cases a try and see how they work.
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Dick Dastardly
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« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2017, 10:26:31 pm »

I'm mighty tempted to have a carrier fitted to my 73 for Cowboy 45 Special ammo.  Then that rig would hold about 15 shots.

DD-MDA
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2017, 04:55:26 pm »

WHAT  Shocked   WAIT   Shocked   WOW!!!

DDD ??  Really??  You don't have a Toggle Rifle set up with a Flipper Stopper Carrier from "The Smith Shop??"  Honest ?? Cheesy   You really need one fourth with.  I run 45CS brass in four Henrys, one 1866 and two 1873s.  Absolutely the Beez Kneez.  Onliest thing you have to remember is to push the last round loaded fully into the carrier to catch the Flipper.   Wink

On an OEM length Henry it's just grins and giggles to load up 18 rounds on Sunday and then SHOOT ALL WEEK!!  Also lets me get a full 10 rounds (12 actual) in my Trapper(s).  The carrier from The Smith Shop is built on an OEM Uberti Carrier block and as such is pretty much "drop in."  Cool
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