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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Powder Room - CAS reloading (Moderator: Professor Marvel)  |  Topic: Help Trail Boss Mystery 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Help Trail Boss Mystery  (Read 1281 times)
Cholla Hill Tirador
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« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2017, 10:42:03 pm »


 Not only will the right chemical composition of a powder react to the right plastic causing deterioration of the powder, but so will exposure to light, as will humidity.

 So you're saying powder will deteriorate in a plastic hopper/powder measure, but not in the plastic container in which it was shipped???  

  My experience tells me different and there's no "lucky" about it. As a matter of fact, in 40 or so years of handloading the ONLY powder I've ever had go bad was IMR and Winchester in its metal containers and Hodgdon in its cardboard containers.

 
My stupid I guess. Sorry to have been the cause of anyone here wasting time on my behalf. The several points I did pick up were to dump my powder and also ensure the measure is dropping correctly. Thanks again for your comments

  The only stupid is not asking the question!

  Here's a suggestion: take a piece of notebook paper and dump a little pile of Trail Boss on it and next to that dump a little pile of some other common pistol powder such as WW-231, Clays, etc. Does one look like it might meter better than the other? Does one look like it'd be less likely to hang up or bridge? (Hint- that be the powder(s) that doesn't look like little pieces of breakfast cereal)

  
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greyhawk
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« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2017, 04:26:08 am »

So you're saying powder will deteriorate in a plastic hopper/powder measure, but not in the plastic container in which it was shipped???  

  My experience tells me different and there's no "lucky" about it. As a matter of fact, in 40 or so years of handloading the ONLY powder I've ever had go bad was IMR and Winchester in its metal containers and Hodgdon in its cardboard containers.

 
 I  take Crow Chokers side here - might not be the cause BUT you make an unfair comparison - how many plastic containers that powder is shipped in can ya see through and would break if ya dropped em on the floor ----?Huh? different plastic (and there are many) exposure to light can/could be a factor - most of the plastic powder containers I see are black softish - have seen some measure hoppers that are see through - helps me know whether its full or empty that does - my measure hopper has a lid that sits on - would not seal in a pink fit - moisture could get in there - my powder containers have screw on water tight lids - different - unfair comparison whether or not u or us are right .... I dont like trail boss so have never used it so that dont count eh. Blame the trail boss plus automatic press - yeah that works for me - but cant discount that something coulda sent the powder off - Soooo Dutchys misfortune has been a wakeup call for all of us to lift our game around powder - not a bad thing and I dont think he should feel at all bad about that. Hes took one for the team.   
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dutchy
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« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2017, 08:33:19 am »

LOL
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Crow Choker
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« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2017, 09:32:21 am »

Not only will the right chemical composition of a powder react to the right plastic causing deterioration of the powder, but so will exposure to light, as will humidity.   
So you're saying powder will deteriorate in a plastic hopper/powder measure, but not in the plastic container in which it was shipped???

 

Cholla Hill: You're overlooking the key word in my sentence, "right". Plastics come in all forms of composition, some reacting to different solids/liquids, while not to others. Why can you put/store gasoline in a plastic gas can while that same gasoline in another plastic container not formulated for gasoline and the gas will eat right through the container. Same goes for gunpowder. Now I did read in the information I looked up regarding various powder hoppers made by reloading outfits that the hard plastic powder hoppers made today differ than those made in the years before. No date of change given, but all manufacturers and the powder companies all still say not to use the powder hopper as a storage facility, stating that some powders, depending on their composition will react at some point.

 I bought an older Lyman orange #55 powder measure at a outdoor swap meet that had a line about 2/3 up from the bottom. The plastic below that line was discolored and there was small powder size dents all over inside the discolored plastic area. Someone had stored powder in the measure to long. Polishing with fine sandpaper and steel wool cleaned it up. Cholla, when I started reloading for metallic cartridges 41 years, 9 months ago (doesn't count years using a Lee handloader for 12 guage), everything I read then said not to store powder in a powder measure due to plastic/powder reaction, light deterioration, and the possibility of the powder sucking up moisture from humidity in the air, not to mention the safety aspect of the whole process.

 Reloading like everything else is governed by rules, break them, ignore them, try to bend them, will always result in Murphy's Law taking affect. Ya, I say you've been 'lucky', glad you have been, but who's to say that somewhere in your 40 years of doing it 'your way' that there hasn't been some powder not meeting its full potential due to some deterioration along the way. Besides, how long does it take to empty that 'hopper'. Just sayin! No intention or desire to get into a online post 'war' with ya, not going to. Safe reloadin' and shootin' to ya and everyone. CC

Hey dutchy, no 'sweat' on asking questions or for help, we all need to. This forum has been pretty quiet lately, in fact downright dead. Needed some postin exercise anyway. Grin
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dutchy
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« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2017, 11:41:38 am »

You guys are right. In fact as well as the answers to my delima I have gleaned several things about the powder aspect of my approach. Over the years I have become lax and in fact lazy about my procedure. This has been a wake up for me. I appreciate all the opinions given. As we know we are free to accept whichever one we choose. In future I plan to
1. Carefully inspect each one of my brass cartridges
2. Empty my powder back onto its original container after each use
3. Go back to my single stage press for reloading
As I  m not shooting competition anymore I have drastically reduced my annual needs.  Donít get me wrong I loved my Dillon 650 but I realize how much I did enjoy the pleasure in the slow reliability of one step at a time reloading. I still recall the look on my wifeís face as I showed her what I thought was a perfectly turned out 45 Colt round. Iím sure she did and still does think Iím nuts . As will you 🤓
This thread has been  a great social as well as informative process. Thanks to you all   
Cheers
Dutchy



 
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Cliff Fendley
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« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2017, 05:18:11 pm »

I shoot pounds of TB a month loading 44-40; 38-40; 45 Cowboy Special and 38 Special. I always leave it in the the LEE 1000 powder hopper. But not for a moth as I use it pretty fast. Also, my reloading room humidity is kept at 50%. Never ever had a squib load and Iíve fired over 10,000 rounds easily.

I guess have shot 10,000 easily if you shoot pounds a month considering a pound of trail boss loads around 1200 rounds of the larger cartridges you listed.
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boilerplatejackson
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« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2017, 02:06:20 am »

I have found static cling to be a problem with Trail Boss and plastic hoppers. I had lots of problems with Trail Boss in .38 special. I now use a dipper along with max Trail Boss to the case load and the squibs stopped. I have read that static cling is a problem with Trail Boss from another forum.
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Cholla Hill Tirador
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« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2017, 10:36:30 pm »

Cholla Hill: You're overlooking the key word in my sentence, "right". Plastics come in all forms of composition, some reacting to different solids/liquids, while not to others. Why can you put/store gasoline in a plastic gas can while that same gasoline in another plastic container not formulated for gasoline and the gas will eat right through the container. Same goes for gunpowder. Now I did read in the information I looked up regarding various powder hoppers made by reloading outfits that the hard plastic powder hoppers made today differ than those made in the years before. No date of change given, but all manufacturers and the powder companies all still say not to use the powder hopper as a storage facility, stating that some powders, depending on their composition will react at some point.

    I bought an older Lyman orange #55 powder measure at a outdoor swap meet that had a line about 2/3 up from the bottom. The plastic below that line was discolored and there was small powder size dents all over inside the discolored plastic area. Someone had stored powder in the measure to long. Polishing with fine sandpaper and steel wool cleaned it up. Cholla, when I started reloading for metallic cartridges 41 years, 9 months ago (doesn't count years using a Lee handloader for 12 guage), everything I read then said not to store powder in a powder measure due to plastic/powder reaction, light deterioration, and the possibility of the powder sucking up moisture from humidity in the air, not to mention the safety aspect of the whole process.

 Reloading like everything else is governed by rules, break them, ignore them, try to bend them, will always result in Murphy's Law taking affect. Ya, I say you've been 'lucky', glad you have been, but who's to say that somewhere in your 40 years of doing it 'your way' that there hasn't been some powder not meeting its full potential due to some deterioration along the way. Besides, how long does it take to empty that 'hopper'. Just sayin! No intention or desire to get into a online post 'war' with ya, not going to. Safe reloadin' and shootin' to ya and everyone. CC

Hey dutchy, no 'sweat' on asking questions or for help, we all need to. This forum has been pretty quiet lately, in fact downright dead. Needed some postin exercise anyway. Grin

    All of them? Well, no they don't.

   My most recent Hornady manual states: "....it can be dangerous to leave powder in your powder measure, not because anything will happen to it but because it may be mistakenly identified at some later time."

   My Lyman 49th Edition (pp.30) goes in to quite a bit of detail on the use of powder and powder measures, but makes no mention whatsoever about the length of time the powder should or should not be left in the measure.

   Likewise, the Smokeless Powder Properties and Storage make no mention of leaving powder in powder measures.

    I think it's obvious that some companies recommend against it, others don't.

    If that's what works for you and makes you feel comfortable, then I support you. But there's no need to start yet another internet, nail-biting, the-sky-is-falling-and-you're-all-going-to-die dramafest over the subject. I think it's been established that the powder metered poorly and thereby lead varying charges. a simple glance at the physical characteristics of the powder would provide a pretty good clue as to why it might have metered poorly.

  CHT
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greyhawk
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« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2017, 01:52:25 am »

    All of them? Well, no they don't.

   My most recent Hornady manual states: "....it can be dangerous to leave powder in your powder measure, not because anything will happen to it but because it may be mistakenly identified at some later time."

   My Lyman 49th Edition (pp.30) goes in to quite a bit of detail on the use of powder and powder measures, but makes no mention whatsoever about the length of time the powder should or should not be left in the measure.

   Likewise, the Smokeless Powder Properties and Storage make no mention of leaving powder in powder measures.


CHT you are arguing that because you did it and it worked then its ok ? yeah that might work or it might not and there are always  varying degrees of everything -
Heres IMR --"Store in a cool dry place"
                 "dont keep more powder in an open container than you need"
not much of a warning - but ----1) your powder measure hopper is an open container or close - sure aint watertight unless they changed the design recently
2) any storage shed, garage, basement anyplace that gets more than 15 inches of rain per year - has at least part of the year when it is not a dry place (humidity over 40%  Huh)  ---- we have a swamp cooler at our house - all summer it is not a dry place!
Maybe I am oversensitive - I make high quality blackpowder - and a big part of that is using dry ingredients and keeping it dry.
Dutchys problem probably was TB clumping in the auto measure --but why encourage bad habits just because its been got away with ??  - and for the average cowboy - leaving powder in the measure is a bad habit for numerous reasons. 


    I think it's obvious that some companies recommend against it, others don't.

    If that's what works for you and makes you feel comfortable, then I support you. But there's no need to start yet another internet, nail-biting, the-sky-is-falling-and-you're-all-going-to-die dramafest over the subject. I think it's been established that the powder metered poorly and thereby lead varying charges. a simple glance at the physical characteristics of the powder would provide a pretty good clue as to why it might have metered poorly.

  CHT
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Powder Room - CAS reloading (Moderator: Professor Marvel)  |  Topic: Help Trail Boss Mystery « previous next »
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