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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Powder Room - CAS reloading (Moderator: Professor Marvel)  |  Topic: Webley safe .45 Auto Loads? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Webley safe .45 Auto Loads?  (Read 588 times)
CPL Jayhawker Jake
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« on: October 18, 2017, 06:14:22 pm »


Howdy folks.  Anyone have a favorite .45 Auto load for a Webley?  Picked up a shaved Webley this pat weekend, and I'm looking to shoot it.  Since I only have one box of .455 for it, I'm looking to load up some .45 Auto or Auto Rim for it.  Not a lot of published data, so I figured I'd ask you fine gentlemen.


Looking to top the load with a 230gr or 250gr cast pill.
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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2017, 06:55:25 pm »

I use about 20 grains of black, or a smokeless starter target load from the .45 acp tables. This is a recuring question, so search the "Frontier Iron" or "Darksider's Den."
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NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
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With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

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CPL Jayhawker Jake
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2017, 07:10:54 pm »

I use about 20 grains of black, or a smokeless starter target load from the .45 acp tables. This is a recuring question, so search the "Frontier Iron" or "Darksider's Den."

I tried searching; guess my google-fu failed me.   Undecided
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 07:19:47 pm »

Any .45 acp target load would be good place to start. Autorim brass or moon clips will be needed. Your lead bullets need to be .454 or .455 to get decent accuracy. Don't use .45 ball or modern stuff, too hot for these old guns. The thing that saves them is a modern .45 acp is .451 so there's plenty of room for the extra pressure to go. Got a bunch of these old Webley revolvers. Love them. The trigger is looong but smooth. Enjoy
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Drydock
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2017, 09:40:57 pm »

Is this a MK V or VI with the thicker cylinder?  If so, the Lee 2nd reloading manual has an excellent section for the 45 Auto rim, any load below 14000 cup is all right.  IF an earlier MK, I would advise BP, or a load of no more than 4.5 grains Unique under a 230 lead bullet.

A handy thing to remember is that the .45 auto/rim has the same internal volume as the longer Webley MK 1 case, also known as the .455 Colt Eley, and data can be found on the internet.  Also, if you have the Lee 1st Reloading manual around, it has a section on the .455 Webley (Mk 2 short case).  Lots of good loads there for Unique, Bullseye, Green Dot, Red Dot.

You will hear folks tell you you need .454 or .455 bullets.  The Webley has somewhat odd dimensions, with the barrels .451 +/- .001 BUT with the chamber mouths .449 +/- 001!  This was an intentional restriction to help get a good pressure curve burn with the chopped cordite used way back then.  Thus .451 bullets are fine, but they need to be soft!  Ironicaly this does help get a good burn with Unique, which seems to have a burn rate close to that of chopped cordite.  (Unchopped long strings of Cordite as used in the rifles burns a lot slower)  No, no one seems to know why they call it a .455.  Maybe to differentiate it from the .450 Adams round it descended from.
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CPL Jayhawker Jake
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« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2017, 06:08:42 pm »

Is this a MK V or VI with the thicker cylinder?  If so, the Lee 2nd reloading manual has an excellent section for the 45 Auto rim, any load below 14000 cup is all right.  IF an earlier MK, I would advise BP, or a load of no more than 4.5 grains Unique under a 230 lead bullet.

A handy thing to remember is that the .45 auto/rim has the same internal volume as the longer Webley MK 1 case, also known as the .455 Colt Eley, and data can be found on the internet.  Also, if you have the Lee 1st Reloading manual around, it has a section on the .455 Webley (Mk 2 short case).  Lots of good loads there for Unique, Bullseye, Green Dot, Red Dot.

You will hear folks tell you you need .454 or .455 bullets.  The Webley has somewhat odd dimensions, with the barrels .451 +/- .001 BUT with the chamber mouths .449 +/- 001!  This was an intentional restriction to help get a good pressure curve burn with the chopped cordite used way back then.  Thus .451 bullets are fine, but they need to be soft!  Ironicaly this does help get a good burn with Unique, which seems to have a burn rate close to that of chopped cordite.  (Unchopped long strings of Cordite as used in the rifles burns a lot slower)  No, no one seems to know why they call it a .455.  Maybe to differentiate it from the .450 Adams round it descended from.

Thanks.  I'll check out the Lee Reloading manual for the Mk II loads.
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2017, 06:41:53 pm »

Drydock, This is why it's a .455.


* image.jpeg (90.45 KB, 768x1024 - viewed 34 times.)
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« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2017, 10:14:24 am »

I use about 20 grains of black, or a smokeless starter target load from the .45 acp tables. This is a recuring question, so search the "Frontier Iron" or "Darksider's Den."

I used the "search function" and found a page of related hits. Nothing that adds to our current thread. I am a member of this discussion on facebook;  

 https://www.facebook.com/groups/602216603198441/

Our RattlesnakeJack composed a good article on loading and load safety under his real name, Grant R.... It says what has to be said. It is the first and only pinned article, under the moderators name, John SA. Saia.
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NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
ira scott
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« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2017, 09:19:07 pm »

On a trial basis for a recently acquired Webley, I loaded a .454 pure lead ball atop a .45 cowboy special case full of APP fff. Seated the ball with some compression just past the centerline with a mild crimp to hold it in. Made a nice bang/cloud of smoke, and seemed to shoot POA @ 10 yds. or so. The .45 Cowboy Special brass is now available from Starline. Seemed easier to me than messing with moon clips.
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Drydock
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« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2017, 03:43:04 am »

I use these: http://www.ezmoonclip.com/

For speed loads while Zoot shooting, they can't be beat!  

The 45 Cowboy Specials might not work with a lot of shaved Webleys though.  But thin the rim a bit and they'd make a good MK 1 Case!
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Civilize them with a Krag . . .
Sir Charles deMouton-Black
THE ANCIENT SUBSTANCE ENDURES - ALL LESSER PROPELLANTS SHALL FIZZLE
NCOWS
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2017, 11:53:43 am »

On a trial basis for a recently acquired Webley, I loaded a .454 pure lead ball atop a .45 cowboy special case full of APP fff. Seated the ball with some compression just past the centerline with a mild crimp to hold it in. Made a nice bang/cloud of smoke, and seemed to shoot POA @ 10 yds. or so. The .45 Cowboy Special brass is now available from Starline. Seemed easier to me than messing with moon clips.

I do something similar with my 1889 Reichsrevolver, but with .44 Russ cases.
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NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Powder Room - CAS reloading (Moderator: Professor Marvel)  |  Topic: Webley safe .45 Auto Loads? « previous next »
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