Javascript DHTML Drop Down Menu Powered by dhtml-menu-builder.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 20, 2017, 02:13:04 pm

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
* Home FlashChat Help Calendar Login Register
Currently there are 0 Users in the Cas City Chat Rooms!
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1873 (Moderator: Major 2)  |  Topic: 38-40 bullet 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: 38-40 bullet  (Read 974 times)
Crazeyiven
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 120


« on: October 07, 2017, 02:47:04 am »


Does anyone shoot round nose bullets in 1873 or any other tube mag rifle?

Also, round nose or flat nose in revolvers?

Just curious.

Thanks,

deg
Logged
greyhawk
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 196


« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2017, 07:15:29 am »

Does anyone shoot round nose bullets in 1873 or any other tube mag rifle?


nope!  still got all me fingers and thumbs too - I say its a dumb idea - you might (or might NOT) get away with it for a long time - but if you seen what a chainfire in a tube magazine does .........................

Also, round nose or flat nose in revolvers?
dont matter - but its a good way to segegate loads - flat nose for rifle - round nose for pistol

Just curious.

Thanks,

deg
Logged
Baltimore Ed
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 495



« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2017, 10:20:46 am »

Shape of the bullet nose doesn't matter in a revolver (except in consideration of a faster reload) but in a tubular magazine cas rifle ONLY use round nosed FLAT point bullets. Semi wad cutters would be safe but might have feeding issues depending on the cal and rifle. You don't want anything even slightly pointy against the primer of the next round. There are numerous reports of rounds detonating in Henry magazines when the follower is accidentally dropped with RNFP bullets. Modern primers are very sensitive otherwise they would need a horrendous hammer strike to detonate. Stay safe.
Logged

"Give'em hell, Pike"
Coffinmaker
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4259


« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2017, 01:26:41 pm »


PLUS ONE to Baltimore Ed.

Over the years this question has come up way too often.  Or, depending on your view, not often enough.  The common sense answer is as Baltimore Ed put it.  But perhaps a little harsher here.  NEVER use round nose bullets in a tubular magazine rifle.  PERIOD!!

There are those few who are going to argue that.  "They" will relate the use of round nose bullets for "years" with no problems.  "They" are on borrowed time.  I have personally been witness the 4 Magazine detonations.  3 were run of the mill lever rifles with tubular magazines.  One was a Henry.  The Henry detonated when the shooter lost control of the follower.  3 of these incidents resulted in minor injuries and a change of underwear.  One, cost the guy half his hand.

Bullet shape matters not at all so long as the entire cartridge is behind the cylinder face.   
Logged
greyhawk
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 196


« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2017, 07:04:05 pm »

PLUS ONE to Baltimore Ed.

Over the years this question has come up way too often.  Or, depending on your view, not often enough.  The common sense answer is as Baltimore Ed put it.  But perhaps a little harsher here.  NEVER use round nose bullets in a tubular magazine rifle.  PERIOD!!

There are those few who are going to argue that.  "They" will relate the use of round nose bullets for "years" with no problems.  "They" are on borrowed time.  I have personally been witness the 4 Magazine detonations.  3 were run of the mill lever rifles with tubular magazines.  One was a Henry.  The Henry detonated when the shooter lost control of the follower.  3 of these incidents resulted in minor injuries and a change of underwear.  One, cost the guy half his hand.

I second that and add some
There are flat nose projectiles out there where the flat is small enough to engage inside the primer pocket - so - perfectly lined up its possible for the flat boolit nose to bear totally against the live primer of the round in front - putting all the pressure of the magazine spring plus the stack of loaded rounds plus the recoil from firing OR the not inconsiderable recoil of the stacked rounds in the magazine tube (that clunking sound when the cartridge retainer releases one to the carrier) all of that impact is (can be) carried by a live primer with maybe a dozen live rounds ahead of it .,....this makes me nervous .....but it must be ok cuz winchester did it - hornady did it - various mold makers did it - whats the odds here? I just looked at these - 348 winchester, Hornady pill and a CBE mold, - 34/40 cast (its either a Lyman or RCBS mold), - 30/30 cast and a good bet the jacketed projectiles too, all can fit the nose inside the primer pocket ---"they"  tell us its not a problem cuz the boolits dont lie head to tail neat in the magazine - and I do notice my straight walled calibres (45/70 38/55 etc) have a wider flat on the nose ...................hmmm !???
Logged
Coal Creek Griff
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1210


With Cheyenne Luke


« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2017, 09:16:18 pm »


There are those few who are going to argue that.  "They" will relate the use of round nose bullets for "years" with no problems.  "They" are on borrowed time.  

Aw, come on!  Next thing you know, you'll be telling me that I should stop walking on my hands on bridge railings!  I've been doing it for years and I'm still fine!  A friend of mine (rest his soul) walked on his hands on bridge railings for nearly 15 years and only fell once!  There--proof that it's safe.  Wink
Logged

BOLD #921
BOSS #196
1860 Henry Rifle Shooter #173
SSS #573
Crazeyiven
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 120


« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2017, 12:34:27 am »

So, in these calibers that can be shot in a tubular magazine, one would assume that die makers would at least have a RNFP bullet seater? Maybe add a round nose for customer service?

deg
Logged
greyhawk
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 196


« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2017, 01:46:02 am »

So, in these calibers that can be shot in a tubular magazine, one would assume that die makers would at least have a RNFP bullet seater? Maybe add a round nose for customer service?

deg

Now that would be tooooo sensible wouldnt it ?proly cost a whole dollar to make the eatra lil plunger thingy too - nah one size fits all is the go - - - so we end up seatin a flat nose slug wid a tapered plunger - just to make it extra difficult to get it adjusted right - I have made several of those little gadgets to suit my boolit profile - things go much easier too but it can take half an hour to turn a dollar part !!!!!
Logged
Baltimore Ed
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 495



« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2017, 08:54:02 am »

You don't like the little ring marks on your pretty lead bullets? OCD? It's only a bullet and you're going to mess it up hopefully when you hit the steel!
Logged

"Give'em hell, Pike"
Coffinmaker
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4259


« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2017, 09:20:24 am »

WHAT  Shocked.  NO!!!  Baltimore Ed, you've got to joking   Roll Eyes   After all that careful and precise work to load my ammo and hitting the steel is going to mess up my carefully crafted bullets??  Surely you jest   Tongue   O No Mr Bill!!   Grin
Logged
Crazeyiven
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 120


« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2017, 05:30:15 am »

Anyone using the RCBS cowboy dies with 38-40?  Does/do the seater(s) accommodate RNFP such as the RCBS 40-180CAS? More than one seater?

Thanks,

David
Logged
Tascosa Joe
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2124


« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2017, 07:22:18 am »

I have used 3 different sets of RCBS dies over the years.  All 3 sets came with 2 seating plungers, one for RN and the other for RNFP.  If I cast bullets I use the old Lyman die.  I think it is 401093, I cast only for BP.  I have found over the years with that bullet I can shoot a 6 stage match without cleaning, rifle or pistol.  If I shoot smokeless, I buy bullets with a crimping grove.
Logged

NRA Life, TSRA Life, NCOWS  Life,
Cholla Hill Tirador
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 383


« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2017, 05:43:35 pm »

 
Shape of the bullet nose doesn't matter in a revolver (except in consideration of a faster reload) but in a tubular magazine cas rifle ONLY use round nosed FLAT point bullets. Semi wad cutters would be safe but might have feeding issues depending on the cal and rifle. You don't want anything even slightly pointy against the primer of the next round. There are numerous reports of rounds detonating in Henry magazines when the follower is accidentally dropped with RNFP bullets. Modern primers are very sensitive otherwise they would need a horrendous hammer strike to detonate. Stay safe.

PLUS ONE to Baltimore Ed.

Over the years this question has come up way too often.  Or, depending on your view, not often enough.  The common sense answer is as Baltimore Ed put it.  But perhaps a little harsher here.  
There are those few who are going to argue that.  "They" will relate the use of round nose bullets for "years" with no NEVER use round nose bullets in a tubular magazine rifle.  PERIOD!!problems.  "They" are on borrowed time.  I have personally been witness the 4 Magazine detonations.  3 were run of the mill lever rifles with tubular magazines.  One was a Henry.  The Henry detonated when the shooter lost control of the follower.  3 of these incidents resulted in minor injuries and a change of underwear.  One, cost the guy half his hand.

Bullet shape matters not at all so long as the entire cartridge is behind the cylinder face.  

 Baahh...What about these:
 










 

 I have an ancient '94 Winchester in 25-35 whose magazine has been loaded with a half dozen Winchester factory loads for several years. The bullets started out as RN's but are now FP's, now having been battered and bounced for a good period of time.

 Much ado about nothing, but if it makes one feel safer loading only FP's, then by all means do so!
  
 CHT

Logged
Baltimore Ed
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 495



« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2017, 07:14:25 pm »

If you look at a loaded 30-30 you see that there is a nice rim on the case, it's a long round and there is a good taper to the case also. I don't have any loaded 30-30s to line up but I would imagine that the nose of the bullet is towards the edge of the next cases primer not the center of it. Gravity and the shape of the round would keep a loaded case in a tubular magazine in this relatively safe position. And honestly I don't believe that I've ever heard of a 30-30 having a mag detonation and with a billion of them sold, I hunted with a 94 Winchester for a few years. But if you look at your highlighted portion of my response you see that I said tubular magazine CAS rifle (pistol caliber) to use only flat point bullets. The shape of a pistol caliber CAS bullet WILL put the bullet nose right against the primer. Not safe.
Something else that I just thought of -- are rifle primers less sensitive than pistol primers? As pressures are a lot higher in rifle ammo it would stand to reason that the primers would be stronger = thicker, less sensitive?
Logged

"Give'em hell, Pike"
greyhawk
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 196


« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2017, 12:59:16 am »

 
 Baahh...What about these:
 






Yeah I know !!! too many 30/30s out there for it not to be ok - my 348 runs the same style of boolit and way more recoil to get things happening - but you would loose your left hand and wreck an expensive gun IF it did detonate the magazine ...
soooo whats going on ? 1) a strong tendency in the US towards hard cast lead 2) the pistol calibres were originally designed to use the (much softer) pistol primers 3) as Ed says aboot the alignment of tapered rounds versus straight walled in the magazine ---- maybe if n we combine all three .......pistol rounds nose to tail on the primer,  wid pistol primer,   plus hard cast round nose boolit ? certainly would make me nervous. ..... its one of those too late afterwards deals ...,





 

 I have an ancient '94 Winchester in 25-35 whose magazine has been loaded with a half dozen Winchester factory loads for several years. The bullets started out as RN's but are now FP's, now having been battered and bounced for a good period of time.

 Much ado about nothing, but if it makes one feel safer loading only FP's, then by all means do so!
  
 CHT


Logged
Crazeyiven
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 120


« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2017, 02:49:04 pm »

You don't like the little ring marks on your pretty lead bullets? OCD? It's only a bullet and you're going to mess it up hopefully when you hit the steel!

A deep ring cut into the nose of the bullet is not cosmetic (pretty lead bullets) but more of an issue of accuracy.  But, if you're right, heck, why don't we demand that bullet mold makers put "pretty little rings" in their molds.  Why shoot ugly bullets! Right?

I shoot steel with an original '73 rifle at 200 yds. Pushing its range & accuracy, so I'll take ugly smooth over "pretty." Grin

deg
Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1873 (Moderator: Major 2)  |  Topic: 38-40 bullet « previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.064 seconds with 22 queries.