Javascript DHTML Drop Down Menu Powered by dhtml-menu-builder.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 20, 2017, 10:28:19 am

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
* Home FlashChat Help Calendar Login Register
Currently there are 0 Users in the Cas City Chat Rooms!
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Powder Room - CAS reloading (Moderator: Professor Marvel)  |  Topic: Using Pyrodex 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Using Pyrodex  (Read 921 times)
Doug.38PR
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 396


« on: October 09, 2017, 08:47:52 pm »


I picked up a can of FFFG Pyrodex for the first time Saturday.  Loaded it in my .44-40 shells for my Uberti Carbine and am looking forward to seeing how it performs. 

Typically I use an old can of Cleanshot or American Pioneer for my BP sub, however Pyrodex was all that was on the shelf.  Thought I'd "give it a shot" Wink

For cleaning Cleanshot and American Pioneer I typically use just plain water to clean.  For brass cleaning I just drop it in a cup of 50/50 Water and Distilled Vinegar and it takes it right off.  I even cleaned my cylinder and barrel of my Pietta 1851 Navy like that.

The sticky at the top of the forum suggests hot water is needed to clean Pyrodex with real soap helping. 

How does Pyrodex perform compared to Cleanshot, American Pioneer, Black Powder and even smokeless Unique?    (I'm specifically going to be shooting a Uberti Winchester 1873 Carbine in .44-40)
Logged
Abilene
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2296



WWW
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2017, 09:43:00 pm »

Pyrodex usually needs soft lube like BP does, unlike APP/Cleanshot/777 that can use ordinary smokeless bullets.  I don't like it myself.  When given some in the past I used it up in shotshells.  And you should clean very well immediately.
Logged

Doug.38PR
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 396


« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2017, 10:28:37 pm »

Pyrodex usually needs soft lube like BP does, unlike APP/Cleanshot/777 that can use ordinary smokeless bullets.  I don't like it myself.  When given some in the past I used it up in shotshells.  And you should clean very well immediately.

I've loaded it with Hunter's Supply hardcast bullets. 200 gr.    http://www.hunters-supply.com/427-4440-cal-200-p-168.html
Logged
Coffinmaker
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4259


« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2017, 10:48:53 pm »

Pyrodex is ..... First and foremost ...... a RUSTING AGENT.  Unfortunately it is also a substitute for BP.  In a compare with the other Subs, or BP, or Smokeless, it is similar in performance.

Pyrodex requires COMPLETE and THOROUGH cleaning IMMEDIATELY or the outcome will NOT be harmonious.  Quite possible the WORST choice for a propellent you could have made.
Logged
greyhawk
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 196


« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2017, 12:28:48 am »

what Coffinmaker said ++++
Logged
Abilene
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2296



WWW
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2017, 01:04:24 am »

I've loaded it with Hunter's Supply hardcast bullets. 200 gr.    http://www.hunters-supply.com/427-4440-cal-200-p-168.html

Try it out and keep track of your accuracy to see if it drops after xx number of shots.  If this is for CAS you might need to swab the bore between stages.  Let us know.
Logged

August
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 533


« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2017, 10:17:17 am »

Peeee Youuuuuu!!!!!
Logged
Bunk Stagnerg
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 518


« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2017, 12:07:16 pm »

personally i would rather shoot stainless steel bullets and clean with battery acid that shoot that stuff.
Check Prof. Marvels article on the "P" product
See I can't bring myself to spell it.
APP or real Gun Powder rules!!
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk
Logged
Professor Marvel
purveyor of useless items to the gentry
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1509


life is too short to waste on stupid


« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2017, 02:34:44 am »

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Bunk :-)

If I had unlimited access to real Black Powder that would be all I would use.
I "use to" stick with GOEX, but the muzzleloader club kinda ... went away.
I really need to find a few folks to split a case with on a regular basis.

I have Pyro and use it in C&B revolvers only. Never my ML rifles or shotguns. what BP I have is reserved for them.
If there is any problem in the C&B revolver,  I can replace a cylinder cheaper than an entire Hawken or Lehman barrel.
I may switch over completely to APP ( or even 777 if I can confirm "no perchlorates" )

After shooting Pyro, I clean VERY thoroughly with soap and water, IMM EDIATELY, because of the perchlorates.
then I clean AGAIN the next day.

Modern solvents, alcohol, etc  will not touch the perchlorate residue.
water does it, lots of water.
Soap or Dawn Dish wshing liquid are  good becasue they are chemical "surfactants" .
Surfactants are compounds that lower the surface tension (or interfacial tension) between two liquids or between a liquid and a solid. Basically makes water dissolve stuff better, and "cuts thru grease and oil".


I don't have  the flash-rust problem due to the fact that I live in a desert. and that I clean immediately.
I AM concerned about the "micro etching" from the resulting acid - thus the extra cleaning.

Since I found APP I may never use Pyro  in cartridges. just my thing.

hope this helps

yhs
prof marvel
Logged

Professor Marvel's Traveling Apothecary and Fortune Telling Emporium
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods, and Picture Postcards
Major 2
"Still running against the wind"
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10290


Cracker Cow Cavalry


« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2017, 05:51:55 am »

I tried the Pellets when they first appeared , " thinking what a quick & easy reload on the line with my 1860's..

I loaded both guns and was thoroughly disappointed after the first cylinders ....  Poof,   fizzzzzzzzzzzz  plop !  FLOP nope !

Tossed it.....  a few years back, at an NCOW's banquet , we were given random numbers at the door ,  later, "if" your name was called in a random drawing
you could claim the "door Prize" adjacent to the  random number your were given on arrival....

My name was called, and adjacent to my given number was a jar of Triple 7.... I declined ....literally proving to myself, you could not give me the shi stuff.
Logged
Cliff Fendley
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2899



« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2017, 07:38:50 am »

Cleaning pyro isn't all that different than BP. As Professor said soap and water do as much good as anything. I live in Kentucky which can be pretty humid most of the time (96% this morning as I type this) and will say if you don't do as Professor says and re clean the guns after a day or so they WILL rust after shooting pyro. I don't care how good of job I do the first time there is always a funky salt like residue that forms and not long after you see it the rust sets in. No kind of oil will stop it, all it does is make rust colored oil if you don't reclean.

I recently came across some ammo loaded with pyrodex from a fellow that is no longer shooting CAS and gave me all the extra 44-40 ammo he had loaded. I trust his loading so I'm shooting it up just for free fun and to get the brass since much of it was loaded in new starline 44-40 cases. I am shooting it in an older Uberti with the original finish so I'm not worried about messing up a gun with nice finish. This has been a good reminder why I said a few years ago I would never use anymore Pyrodex.

There was also some ammo in that batch he had loaded with APP and I have to say my experience with the APP is quite pleasant. It shoots well and cleans up nicely. From my recent experience if I could not get real BP I would be using APP powder.
Logged

http://www.fendleyknives.com/

NCOWS 3345  RATS 576 NRA Life member

Johnson County Rangers
Coffinmaker
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4259


« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2017, 12:06:41 pm »


Perfesser Marvelous ......

Fear not.  Want not.  I have done a thorough examination, not to exclude the dreaded Finger Waive.  I have found thru thorough research, APP contains Naught of those nasty rusting things.  None.  Nada.  Zip.  Zero. 

I shoot APP exclusively as in my area, No one has a magazine from which to stock BP.  The only one whom did possess a magazine (50 Mile drive each way) folded up his tent, put his arse in his wagon and went away.  Only other method is to order a big batch and have it delivered Haz Mat and all.  Phooey.

So ..... I have become a staunch advocate of APP.  The more recent formulations have very little dust and run through my Dillon presses with no problems.  Well, almost no problems.  2f will occasionally bridge and throw a light load immediately followed by a heavy load.  I have a powder check die with an alarm plus I look in the case.  3f meters like that Fad Heathen stuff espoused by the unwashed masses.

Cleans up with water.  Plain water.  Add a drop or two of Dawn if you absolutely must fortify.  My rifles are ALL (except 1) 45s, so when I rinse my brass in a solution of water and White Vinegar, I also throw in the Brass Carrier Block.  Presto Cleano.  The exception is a 44 Special that digests 44 Russian so that carrier block goes in with the brass too.

Whenever I see the APP Specials concurrent with the major matches I order a case.  Or just trot to the local purveyors of things gun and buy a bottle.

Fear Not.

And ... As mentioned by Monsieur Fendley, no need to clean the same gun two or three times.  PYRO SUX.
Logged
Crow Choker
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 703


River Banker Extraordinaire


« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2017, 08:04:00 pm »

Waaaalllllll! I shoot 'nutchin' but real black powder (except for smokeless rounds). My source for black is around a 100 round trip drive, but worth the trip as there is always something else to maybe get. It's an old time gunshop where ya can sit around and 'jaw', drink java and soda's, sometimes eat some of the owners wife's brownee's, cookies, or kolochee's, swap tales and jokes, and get all the local gossip. Once in a while a real BS'er will show up and ya can get them going on tall tales and lies of his former exploits. It's not like the sterile big box stores or fancy gunshops where ya fear ya might track in a teaspoon of dirt or if ya look crosswise at shelves full of products breathing on them might disturb their arrangement. The owner as Lawrence Welk used to say has "Vonderfull, Vonderfull" prices--around $15-16 a pound for FF/FFF Goex black.

 When ever he decides to call it quits, if no one continues the shop, I'll have to find a new source, if none within driving distance, I'll have to get with fellow real black powder shooters and order some from some of the online joints and split the shipping/hazemat cost. I don't like going the artificial route on anything when 'real' is available. A few things such as lubes and such, but that's it. Back in the old days, if we'd run out of Schlitz, we'd have to drink the artificial stuff. (Tis so ain't it Jubal). Shooting all the black powder subs instead of real black to me would be like mixing some water with food dye, artificial flavor, and sugar ifin ya run out of sodee's and being happy with that-that's all pop is anyway, but must be those secret formulas. JMO!!
Logged

Darksider-1911 Shooter-BOLD Chambers-RATS-SCORRS-STORM-1860 Henry(1866)-Colt Handgun Lover an' Fan-NRA-"RiverRat"-Conservative American Patriot and Former Keeper & Enforcer of the Law an' Proud of Being Both! >oo
Doug.38PR
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 396


« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2017, 07:38:41 pm »

Well,
I shot Pyrodex in my 1873 Uberti winchester for first time.  14 rounds.  

Not quite as powerful as Cleanshotr.  Cleanshot was averaging 1230 fps.  pyrodex about 1175 fps.  A few got up around 1215 fps, but most were down around 1175.  

Fist thing that happened about 30 seconds after I came in the house, my wife hollered from UPSTAIRS:  "Douglas, what is that smell?  Did Joe (our dog) poo-poo?   It smells like poo-poo!  Horrible."

I said, "is it this?" walked upstairs to her with the empty rifle and let her snell the muzzel.  "OH MY LORD!" and walked away disgusted.  "That's it!  Dusgusting."  LOL

Took me an hour to clean it.  Went upstairs, soaked a .44/45 bore snake in hot water and ran it through a few times.  I don't think it got into the action much except wherewater fowed into it.  Wiped it and oiled it with Breakfree in the acton taking the toggle link apart and oiling and scrubbing the elevator space with a paper towel.  I think inay have even slicked the action some with all the break free.

Didn't seem to be as gummy in the cleaning as American Pioneer or Cleanshot
Logged
The Trinity Kid
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1458


These are some of my...Friends


« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2017, 10:44:29 pm »

I use the "Pyro" stuff in my revolvers.  One thing I notice is that it doesn't work in blank loads very well.  I used flower foam and cream of wheat, and cream of wheat worked okay.  The flower foam went "pfffffft," instead of "boom."  That was 20 grains of powder. 

Also, as Doug discovered, the stuff stinks to high heaven and back the long way.  I have to lock myself in the laundry room when I clean it.  On that note...

I clean by putting boiling water into a bowl with about a tablespoon or so of Dawn dishsoap and put the barrel, loading lever, cylinder and frame (suspended by a coat hanger to keep the grip out) in and let it soak until the water is cool enough to stick my hands in.  Then I remove and scrub each piece, one at a time, with a nylon bristle brush and fresh water (barrel gets a copper bore brush and dish soap).  I dry everything with a blowdryer and leave it disassembled until the next day.  Then I rinse it off with more boiling water, dry it again and give it a coat of RemOil. 

Once I finish up this pound that I have, I'm going to bite the financial bullet and pay for my semi-local purveyor of firearms and accessories to have some Goex shipped in.  The gas to get there will cost less than the hazmat fee to have it shipped to my door.

--TK
Logged

"James shook his head and twirled his Colt into it's holster with a smile.  There was some coffee left in the pot, so he poured it in his cup and leaned against the wall by the door.  The sun was setting in the distance, creating a beautiful sunset. 
   “Texas has better sunsets.”  He heard Terri say next to him.  He turned to face her.
   “Of course it does.  But we gotta get what we can in the mean time.” He said with a lopsided grin.  She smiled back and pulled her Colt, stuffing the barrel into his belly.
   “Yer' getting slow.  Better work on that.”  She said and walked back into the house with the empty coffee pot. 
   “We saw that, y' know.”  Clint Rounds said laughing.   James turned red and tried to hide his embarrassment."   Excerpt fromTHE FLOPPY HAT FROM TEXAS," being written by yours truly.



   I was told recently that I'm "livelier than a one-legged man at a butt-kicking contest."    Is that an insult or a compliment?
Doug.38PR
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 396


« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2017, 11:04:22 pm »

I use the "Pyro" stuff in my revolvers.  One thing I notice is that it doesn't work in blank loads very well.  I used flower foam and cream of wheat, and cream of wheat worked okay.  The flower foam went "pfffffft," instead of "boom."  That was 20 grains of powder. 

Also, as Doug discovered, the stuff stinks to high heaven and back the long way.  I have to lock myself in the laundry room when I clean it.  On that note...

I clean by putting boiling water into a bowl with about a tablespoon or so of Dawn dishsoap and put the barrel, loading lever, cylinder and frame (suspended by a coat hanger to keep the grip out) in and let it soak until the water is cool enough to stick my hands in.  Then I remove and scrub each piece, one at a time, with a nylon bristle brush and fresh water (barrel gets a copper bore brush and dish soap).  I dry everything with a blowdryer and leave it disassembled until the next day.  Then I rinse it off with more boiling water, dry it again and give it a coat of RemOil. 

Once I finish up this pound that I have, I'm going to bite the financial bullet and pay for my semi-local purveyor of firearms and accessories to have some Goex shipped in.  The gas to get there will cost less than the hazmat fee to have it shipped to my door.

--TK

Wow!  You put more effort into cleaning than I do. 

For American Pioneer and Cleanshot, Ive started putting the ball and cap cylinder and barrel into a cup of 50/50 water and distilled vinagar. 

Formy schofield, vaquero and, now, rifle, I use hot water, hot water and more hot water, dry with paper towels and dry patches and saturate with breakfree
Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Powder Room - CAS reloading (Moderator: Professor Marvel)  |  Topic: Using Pyrodex « previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.326 seconds with 22 queries.