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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Major 2, Capt Quirk)  |  Topic: A possibility? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Isbjorn
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« on: October 02, 2017, 08:57:59 pm »


Are the base areas of the .45 Colt and .45-70 govt cases similar enough to allow a cut down .45-70 case with a, say, 50 gr load of real BP and a, say, 200 gr round nose lead bullet to be fired safely and accurately from a F series 1st model dragoon with a conversion cylinder?
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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2017, 01:06:10 pm »


If your conversion cylinder chambers haven't been "through bored" it won't matter.  With the throat intact, you can't chamber anything longer than a 45 Colt case.  A 45-70 case that short won't accept 50Gr of powder.
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Pettifogger
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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2017, 01:13:07 pm »

Absolutely not a possibility.  The base diameter and the rim diameter on a .45-70 are much larger than a .45 Colt.
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Crow Choker
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2017, 03:14:40 pm »

2nd to Pettifoggers and Coffinmakers replies. With a 7 1/2" Dragoon barrel you'd probably not have a complete burn of 50 grains of powder anyway. You can do just as much with a 45 Colt case filled with a max amount of FF or FFF as with some dream 45/70 case cut down filled with 50 grains. No offense, but have you been watching some of those Utube cranks who dream all this stuff up. Smoke and flame is one thing, but it has its limitations. Utube has a lot of interesting and educational video's on it, but there is a whole wagon full of self proclaimed experts that talk from the region of their lower external anal orifice. Not trying to be critical or demeaning to ya, just sayin'!
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Jimeast
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2017, 09:54:20 pm »

I'm told that a 45-70 case won't fit, even with modification to the conversion cylinder.  The diameter of the arbor that the cylinder slides over is large enough to interfere with the rim of the 45-70 when boring a conversion cylinder for a 45-70.  It sounds like there are other issues as well.

Hoofhearted can fit a Walker Conversion Cylinder to a Dragoon or Walker that will hold a 460 cartridge.  The cartridge will hold 60 grains of black powder.
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Dick Dastardly
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2017, 04:21:31 pm »

Why?  If you want a magnum, buy a magnum.  With bp that would be a 47 Walker.

DD-MDA
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2017, 11:57:50 am »

Well ... gosh.  Just Because I guess.  Roll Eyes   Hoof Hearted built a Walker conversion for a guy with a bored thru cylinder to accept the 460 S&W case.  Called it the 45 Brimstone.  Now ... I've got a wild hair to build a pair of Walker Snubbies (yea ... right .... a Walker Snubbie) this will use Dragoon frames with 47 Walker barrels and bored thru gated conversion cylinders. 

I've even seen pictures of a '47 Snubbie (no conversion) that just set my salivary glands off.  Problem is, gonna be some expensive to build and be of no practical value.  Well, practical and Walker don't belong in the same sentence anyway.  FUN comes to mind though.  Gotta talk to my broker.  Don't look for the completed project soon though.  My "mad money" is somewhat depleted.
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Isbjorn
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« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2017, 09:58:14 pm »

Absolutely not a possibility.  The base diameter and the rim diameter on a .45-70 are much larger than a .45 Colt.
That's what I wanted to know. Thank you.
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Isbjorn
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« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2017, 10:38:58 pm »

Why?  If you want a magnum, buy a magnum.  With bp that would be a 47 Walker.

DD-MDA

Can I use YOUR bank account? I ain't George Soros. Not even Mark Cuban. Thank God. I wouldn't mind being Robert Herjavek though.

I got a Howell's .45 Colt cylinder for the Uberti Dragoons. It's the bored through with a back plate type. It locks up nicely with a hefty pull to get through all four clicks. I guess I should remind everyone I'm trying to make a shooter out of a  (an?) F series Colt's 1st Model Dragoon. Loading up HSM cowboy loads in .45 Colt leaves the bullet nose a good 1/4 inch below the cylinder face.
My research tells me Walkers could load 60 gr. bp, Dragoons, 50gr. That load isn't written in stone, just an approximation to get the bullet seated on the powder and to get the bullet nose nearer the cylinder face.

I'm the poor fish who can't find normal nipples or any information about caps for the F series COLT'S 1st Dragoon I'm beginning to wish I never bought.

This whole thing has been a barrel of mierde del toro. Shoulda just bought an Uberti ( A Uberti?) What's the plural of Uberti? Uberties? Ubertii?

Anybody wanna trade a newish (Or new, for that matter) Uberti Colt's ANY Model Dragoon for a F (An F?) series Colt's First Model Dragoon? All numbers match. I'm about tired of this thing. I thought it would be cool to own a real Colt, but it's just been a barrel of crap.

I don't give a rat's rass about "collector value".
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Isbjorn
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« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2017, 10:40:20 pm »

Are the base areas of the .45 Colt and .45-70 govt cases similar enough to allow a cut down .45-70 case with a, say, 50 gr load of real BP and a, say, 200 gr round nose lead bullet to be fired safely and accurately from a F series 1st model dragoon with a conversion cylinder?

 A cut down .45-70 case, I said.
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Isbjorn
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« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2017, 10:43:31 pm »

2nd to Pettifoggers and Coffinmakers replies. With a 7 1/2" Dragoon barrel you'd probably not have a complete burn of 50 grains of powder anyway. You can do just as much with a 45 Colt case filled with a max amount of FF or FFF as with some dream 45/70 case cut down filled with 50 grains. No offense, but have you been watching some of those Utube cranks who dream all this stuff up. Smoke and flame is one thing, but it has its limitations. Utube has a lot of interesting and educational video's on it, but there is a whole wagon full of self proclaimed experts that talk from the region of their lower external anal orifice. Not trying to be critical or demeaning to ya, just sayin'!

No, I'm just trying to get a round that actually fits the cylinder without a lot of freespace, or whatever the lingo term is. I don't U2b much.
As if I had to draw on a bad guy and he has to look in my cylinder to make sure there's actually a round in there.
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Jimeast
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« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2017, 07:21:31 am »

As mentioned, a 45-70 cartridge is too large in Diameter to fit a Dragoon or Walker Cylinder.  If you bore out a Dragoon cylinder to hold a 45-70 (cut down) cartridge, the rim for the cartridge is too large in diameter and will interfere with the arbor on the frame of the gun.

The way people get around this, is to bore the cylinder out for a 460 cartridge.  Usually in a Walker Conversion Cylinder, and then fit the Walker cylinder to a Dragoon frame and barrel. (The barrel cone of a Dragoon needs to be cut down to account for the longer Walker cylinder)

In doing this, you end up with a cartridge that can hold 60 grains of powder, like the original Walker cap & ball.  Hoofhearted (a gunsmith that has frequented this forum in the past) has completed this conversion enough to offer it as a standard conversion effort.  (Not cheap due to the overall work required)  I am told there are a few other 'smiths that have done this conversion as well.

http://www.cartridgeconversion.com/

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Tornado
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« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2017, 07:54:00 am »

A less expensive option, if you already have the Conversion cylinder, is to ream it out to with a 454 Casull reamer.  It is only a little bit longer than the 45 Colt, but you could get a few more grains of black powder in there. 
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« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2017, 09:54:15 am »

A less expensive option, if you already have the Conversion cylinder, is to ream it out to with a 454 Casull reamer.  It is only a little bit longer than the 45 Colt, but you could get a few more grains of black powder in there. 

Not having any experience in all this, my initial "flash" was that the .454 Casull would be a very good option.
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Isbjorn
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« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2017, 11:36:26 pm »

All I want to do is fill the chamber. Isn't it supposed to be not so hot to have too much free space in the chamber? I'm not worried about super duper pooper power.. It was just a thought.

But I DO appreciate the responses. One doesn't get ignored here like one can on my last, ex forum.
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