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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1876 (Moderator: Grizzly Adams)  |  Topic: Extra Heavy barrel 45/75 rebarrel . 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Extra Heavy barrel 45/75 rebarrel .  (Read 4763 times)
Coal Creek Griff
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« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2018, 05:45:45 pm »

Thanks CCG...

I somehow dropped a word in my last post.  "That good" made me sound like I don't speak English. Roll Eyes  I meant, "That looks good."  I'm glad that you apparently understood me anyway.  It certainly does look good.

CC Griff
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greyhawk
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« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2018, 10:35:39 pm »

Thanks CCG it's been fun bringing this one back . Hope it shoots as good as I am expecting it to .  ,,,DT

Hey Fellas
My Lyman front sight is almost here - in the hands of the other half - fit it tonight - have some rounds loaded - so burn some powder tomorrow - weather permitting - (perfect shooting day gone today - should be good tomorrow morning at least) - have carefully loaded some 407 grain flatpoint (the modified LEE mold) - weighed em up this time !
Have to give Brownells Australia a bit of a cheer here (and the postal service - grudgingly!) - only made the order friday afternoon and we got it monday morning ...............
More tomorrow
Greyhawk
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dusty texian
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« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2018, 06:20:03 am »

Wow that was quick . Are you dealing with bad winds ? Hope to get some shooting in this wk. myself March is a windy month here in Tx. Mornings are best before the wind gets up . Good shooting .,,,,DT
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greyhawk
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« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2018, 05:55:24 am »

Wow that was quick . Are you dealing with bad winds ? Hope to get some shooting in this wk. myself March is a windy month here in Tx. Mornings are best before the wind gets up . Good shooting .,,,,DT

Yeah been crap weather for winds here - good day yesterday and ok today - posted my shoot results over on the other thread (loading data) - its starting to come together - more to do - bruised my shoulder this morning - too low down on the bench with that crescent buttplate  Undecided
Thanks for the encouragement along the way.
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dusty texian
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« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2018, 06:06:30 am »

Wind has been very bad here , hope to get some shooting in this wk. The 405;s have a bit of recoil for sure . I Thank you also for relaying your progress . Very good to hear others results . I am sure others here are following and have the same interest  .,,,DT
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greyhawk
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« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2018, 06:55:33 pm »

Wind has been very bad here , hope to get some shooting in this wk. The 405;s have a bit of recoil for sure . I Thank you also for relaying your progress . Very good to hear others results . I am sure others here are following and have the same interest  .,,,DT

Dusty
I just posted shoot results over in load data - that 500 grain LEE did reall well
The cold barrel thing got me again and it seems like its consistent with this rifle
Something to think about for your heavy barrel build ?
Walking shots up the target as the barrel warms is a common enough problem with magazine rifles - some do it - some dont - I think Paco Kelly did some work on accurising lever actions and isolating the magazine from the barrel was one of his better tricks.
I struggled with making and properly fitting the front barrel band so I went the belt and braces approach and I made a collar that fits neat over the tube and engages tightly inside the forend cap - if you fit this up neat it stops forward movement of the tube - I have a short barrel / full magazine 92 with no front hanger at all - its solid as a rock - have made this magazine tube collar for a couple of 92 - silver soldered onto the tube - dont know what the inside of the 76 cap looks like but assuming it is designed same or similar and there would be space to do this - theres no spare space in there on a 92 but it works. Not a problem with a button magazine (half length mag) but I dont like them much - prefer full length tubes.   So if it was me building that heavy barrel gun I would sneak that tube collar in as a magazine anchor and I would fit the front band a little loose into the barrel so its just a hanger rather than taking the force of recoil as a retainer would - might make a difference to how she shoots ? might not either. Couple of pics below of my 92 - the collar is protruding through the nose cap - a bit untidy but that cap has been monkeyed with till theres not much of it left.     


* 92 magazine retainer collar.jpeg (35.23 KB, 800x480 - viewed 81 times.)

* magazine tube drawing.jpeg (22.91 KB, 800x480 - viewed 83 times.)
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dusty texian
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« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2018, 08:05:11 am »

A Paco Kelly fan myself , nice job on the 92 .  All good points about the magazine tube affecting accuracy . On this particular rifle I have replaced the barrel and wood only . Not wanting to change or modify the original parts . The amount of fitting / metal removal of parts only amounted to very small burr's removed , not much more . WinchesterBarrels did a great job duplicating this barrel. Even down to the little magazine tube hanger pin fitting just in the right place . I think the Extra Heavy barrel will be stiff enough to shoot well  (if I can ever get away from this house rebuild)  will find out . Its like getting to try a new 1876 EHB gun for accuracy  or what the rifle could do way back when . The tube fit at the forearm cap , is snug but smooth as new going through , the magazine hanger / tube fit is not tight when the tube is in place .  I made the forearm fit on receiver and cap nice and snug , but the wood under the barrel is lightly touching the barrel . I also stabilized the inside of the forearm magazine tube hole in the wood with a heat activated epoxy coating . This is a very thin forearm , thought this may help keep the chance of the wood cracking at a minimum . Note most of my leverguns that have a loose fitting forearm seem to shoot the best . ,,,DT
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greyhawk
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« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2018, 09:28:36 am »

A Paco Kelly fan myself , nice job on the 92 .  All good points about the magazine tube affecting accuracy . On this particular rifle I have replaced the barrel and wood only . Not wanting to change or modify the original parts . The amount of fitting / metal removal of parts only amounted to very small burr's removed , not much more . WinchesterBarrels did a great job duplicating this barrel. Even down to the little magazine tube hanger pin fitting just in the right place . I think the Extra Heavy barrel will be stiff enough to shoot well  (if I can ever get away from this house rebuild)  will find out . Its like getting to try a new 1876 EHB gun for accuracy  or what the rifle could do way back when . The tube fit at the forearm cap , is snug but smooth as new going through , the magazine hanger / tube fit is not tight when the tube is in place .  I made the forearm fit on receiver and cap nice and snug , but the wood under the barrel is lightly touching the barrel . I also stabilized the inside of the forearm magazine tube hole in the wood with a heat activated epoxy coating . This is a very thin forearm , thought this may help keep the chance of the wood cracking at a minimum . Note most of my leverguns that have a loose fitting forearm seem to shoot the best . ,,,DT

I'm enjoying that 92 - thats the 38/40 I converted up from 32/20 - 26 inch barrel - its a nice shooter - I put a paper thin magazine tube on it and short forend - its a good sized rifle but it feels light and slim in the hand.
Sounds like you have all bases covered with the EHB gun - that one is gonna be something else to shoot - wish I could come spot for you the first couple sessions
I dont want to mess with my Uberti any more than it needs - just a matter of shooting it enough to get used to what it does . 
 
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dusty texian
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« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2018, 04:38:10 pm »

Today I found enough time to get the EHB 1876 Win. to the bench. The first load tested after 4 shots , I could tell the rifle did not shoot them very well. But they did serve as to get my sights on paper and foul my bore . The next load was the exact same as the first in case primer bullet and lube , the only difference was 1 one grain more Swiss powder. The load - .352 gr. cast from Win. bullet mould @ .458 as cast , with WW . Lube SPG , WLR primer , Jamisom case , 64.5 gr. by weight Swiss 2ff seated with Win, tong tool. Barrel was fouled by the first 5 shot load . Range was 100 yd. light cross wind 5/10 mph. sand bags using the rear tang . Single loaded the rifle each shot . Was only shooting for group and did waste any shots on windage . Here is the pic's of the first 3 shots then at 5 shots and then at 10 shots @100 yds' This rifle shot very easy did not have much recoil at all , and I have not done any bench shooting in months . Was happy with the results to say the least . Looks like this EHB will be a shooter ! ,,,,,,,DT


* EHV45751rst3.jpg (290.06 KB, 908x1210 - viewed 76 times.)

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* EHBonbags;jpg.jpg (64.85 KB, 273x363 - viewed 86 times.)
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greyhawk
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« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2018, 06:27:15 pm »

Today I found enough time to get the EHB 1876 Win. to the bench. The first load tested after 4 shots , I could tell the rifle did not shoot them very well. But they did serve as to get my sights on paper and foul my bore . The next load was the exact same as the first in case primer bullet and lube , the only difference was 1 one grain more Swiss powder. The load - .352 gr. cast from Win. bullet mould @ .458 as cast , with WW . Lube SPG , WLR primer , Jamisom case , 64.5 gr. by weight Swiss 2ff seated with Win, tong tool. Barrel was fouled by the first 5 shot load . Range was 100 yd. light cross wind 5/10 mph. sand bags using the rear tang . Single loaded the rifle each shot . Was only shooting for group and did waste any shots on windage . Here is the pic's of the first 3 shots then at 5 shots and then at 10 shots @100 yds' This rifle shot very easy did not have much recoil at all , and I have not done any bench shooting in months . Was happy with the results to say the least . Looks like this EHB will be a shooter ! ,,,,,,,DT

Wow !! Dont ya just love it when a plan works out - that was worth the wait !
Are You blow tubing this load or is the SPG on that boolit good enough to just shoot?
Still stalled out on thepointy boolit project this end - customs has got the Brownells shipment still .

Seein that you wished me luck for the Easter shoot - that plan worked too - I messed up in the percussion shoot - shot ordinary in the long range - nailed the Flintlock Trophy - and as a bonus I lucked onto a good condition original mold for the 38-40 cheap.
 Target below  13 shots ten to count, offhand @75 yards, no spotting scopes, no practice, load off the body - shot 84 for a clear win on the day.     


* flintlock easter2018.jpeg (20.23 KB, 439x331 - viewed 64 times.)
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dusty texian
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« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2018, 06:39:13 pm »

First , Congratulations on some fine shooting Greyhawk , sounds like you had a great day . The SPG did very well , had a lube star going after 3 shots  humidity today about 60%, , did blow one long breath after each shot , just habit I think . Now that the brass is starting to form going to up the powder charge a grain or so . So far this barrel is great . Clean-up was two wet patch and a dry , easiest I ever seen . ,,DT
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greyhawk
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« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2018, 07:15:34 pm »

First , Congratulations on some fine shooting Greyhawk , sounds like you had a great day . The SPG did very well , had a lube star going after 3 shots  humidity today about 60%, , did blow one long breath after each shot , just habit I think . Now that the brass is starting to form going to up the powder charge a grain or so . So far this barrel is great . Clean-up was two wet patch and a dry , easiest I ever seen . ,,DT

Thanks ! Yeah I had a good weekend - had my son along - or he had me along - we camp semi primitive (= kinda rough!) Good company - some campfire stories -

60% humidity - I reckon one blow is about right - maybe dont even need it - here its usually drier than that - my sharps needs it every shot - the 76 will run ok with one into the action after every five in standup shooting - on the bench I blow every shot. The serious guys out here are all gone paper patch - all except one - the best of the best at the moment and they tell me he is still shooting grease boolits - clean between shots tho ----I think that system settles some shooters down -- theres a huge amount of mind stuff in good shooting and I reckon most fellers dont take enough account of that.

No shooting today here -- windy and hot
Well - good to see that big 76 going well ! Keep us posted eh.   
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greyhawk
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« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2018, 01:27:08 am »

First , Congratulations on some fine shooting Greyhawk , sounds like you had a great day . The SPG did very well , had a lube star going after 3 shots  humidity today about 60%, , did blow one long breath after each shot , just habit I think . Now that the brass is starting to form going to up the powder charge a grain or so . So far this barrel is great . Clean-up was two wet patch and a dry , easiest I ever seen . ,,DT

My Uberti cleans about like that - I use a flush bottle between patches - usually the water runs clear after the second patch - then dry it out - its a breeze really.
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dusty texian
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« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2018, 12:32:48 pm »

I agree a slick /smooth barrel is a breeze to clean after a shooting session with good lube lead bullets and Bp.  When I hear guy's say (Not me to messy) , I think they only have heard this and are repeating what they have heard ,  or if they have tried Bp. they have used the wrong cleaning method . I spent many yrs shooting Smokeless and copper jacketed bullets in very good high power rifles , and can say with confidence that the cleanup that these same fellows that are describing  Bp. is to messy , well the cleanup that the firearms they are shooting are far more troublesome to clean than my Bp. cartridge rifles .,,,,,DT
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dusty texian
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« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2018, 06:32:46 pm »

Thanks ! Yeah I had a good weekend - had my son along - or he had me along - we camp semi primitive (= kinda rough!) Good company - some campfire stories -

60% humidity - I reckon one blow is about right - maybe dont even need it - here its usually drier than that - my sharps needs it every shot - the 76 will run ok with one into the action after every five in standup shooting - on the bench I blow every shot. The serious guys out here are all gone paper patch - all except one - the best of the best at the moment and they tell me he is still shooting grease boolits - clean between shots tho ----I think that system settles some shooters down -- theres a huge amount of mind stuff in good shooting and I reckon most fellers dont take enough account of that.

No shooting today here -- windy and hot
Well - good to see that big 76 going well ! Keep us posted eh.                 I  am in full agreement with that statement (there's a huge amount of mind stuff in good shooting ) my best days like the one I had a couple days ago , are when I have a routine that I go through before and after every shot and if it is not interrupted  , then what I get is my best . Most times if that  rhythm is broken  due to outside distraction ,( another shooter wanting to yack or line break) , I can see the results in my group . Was discussing this the other day with another shooter shooting a scoped rifle . He could not understand how a person can shoot tight groups with no magnification . That's where mental focus muscle memory doing the same thing as close as one can each and every time and having (rifle /load combo that is accurate and reliable ) the repeated  rhythm makes small groups possible . Bottom line is your equipment must be accurate , but the shooting is all up to you .,,,DT

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greyhawk
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« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2018, 11:00:27 pm »



Yep
Know exactly what you mean - I shot my 38/55 a few days ago, started out as an experiment with breech seating that didnt work out and ended with "well lets just see what we can do with normal fixed ammo (black of course)"  - I fired three, rested 100yards,  they were in the black but my scope is not good enough to see em properly - so I strolled up for a look and I had three shots in an inch - ooooh nice - a couple more in there would look real pretty! the next two were close to one another but it spread my group to about two and a half inches - so that little break took me from spectacular (for me) to "thats a nice group for steel sights".
Have to confess I have been pretty much a sceptic about some of the claims for small groups with non scoped sights - here and other places - but - the further away I get from scoped shooting the more possible those claims seem.       
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dusty texian
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« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2018, 03:59:14 pm »

My apologies for getting off topic God knows I drift off often ,  Sorry Grizz . Shooting this EHB only one time at the bench I cant say yet that it is the most accurate open sight rifle that I have , but never have I  had the others shoot a group as well as this one . It has a crisp 3lb. trigger , very slick action , weighs 12.5 lb. Heavy up front , good  target sights and the stocks fit me to a "t" , the barrel is a work of art . Again Winchester barrels made an exceptional  barrel for me . And to be clear I have nothing to gain by saying that , they just do a good job and saying it is just fact . The brass that is once fired has been cleaned re-loaded with 1.5 gr. increase in powder and the neck tension being less than before is all that was changed . I did load 10 cartridges with new brass exactly like the load that shot the best 10 shot group of the day in pic. with rifle . That load deserves to be tried more for sure . I look forward to getting to know this EHB rifle on the bench . So far the first outing with it has left me very hopeful . ,,,DT
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greyhawk
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« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2018, 09:52:35 pm »

Dusty
Time is getting away on us all hey . I got my long staff for the marbles sight a couple weeks ago - dang thing was wobbly on the base - not happy at all - I pulled it apart to see whats up and three little balls missing out of the base assembly - hate sending stuff back so I called the Brownells guy and they gonna send some balls - then I decided to adapt a short staff pedersoli sight over - hadda make a new base for that - still got no windage adjustment - so started in on making a dovetail slide sos I could have windage on it - %$&@*& --------lets start again here so I put all that stuff in a pile and ended up scratch built a soule style backsight for the 76 - pleased with it for a first effort - its a bit rugged in places compared to the pro ones but it works and no slack in it anyplace ....
Sooooo out for my first test this morning - at 200yards with the LEE 500grain boolit - I set the bar at 2MOA - If we can do that we not doin so bad - fired one fouler - then one sighter was twenty inches low - thats four full turns of elevation screw - let three go at that and we in the black - about two inches sideways and four inches vertical -----my target was on about a thirty degree angle to the line of shot (couldnt see it otherwise!!!) ----will do three and maybe four hundred tomorrow morning if the weather holds for it.
 


* 200yards140518.jpeg (19.58 KB, 237x480 - viewed 58 times.)

* soule sight.jpeg (97.73 KB, 480x800 - viewed 59 times.)
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dusty texian
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« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2018, 07:25:53 am »

Greyhawk that's looking good . Now that you have enough tang sight for testing the heavy pointy bullet , I'm anxious to see how much you will have to come up for 3 and 4 hundred . Makes me want to get out shooting . ,,, DT
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greyhawk
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« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2018, 08:45:39 pm »

Dusty
Elevation screw on that sight is 40TPI - so roughly 2.5 MOA per turn - I came up 13 turns from 200 to 400 this morning
6and a half turns was about right for 200 to 300 but the same again put me low at 400
 
targets below
300 was ok,  same deal as before - one fouler, one sighter, change settings then shoot five

400 (I cleaned before I shot) one fouler, one sighter, change settings and shoot five - the four in the pic are not so bad but I lost one in the frame and that made a two foot spread of it - this is what the gurus on the cast boolit forum say about that LEE 500 - a bit of wind and you loose stability - I dunno - coulda been me easy enough - I slowed down some between shots - one long blow -
Have a friend gonna donate me a handful of postell boolits to try and I also need to just shoot my normal case loaded rounds to compare - nice shooting weather and I gotta work !!!! 
I am about on that 2MOA spread that I set myself at the start - sorta wonder can I do any better anyway ? .....we can always do better eh!  trying for 500 later in the week and will post it .
cheers
greyhawk


* 300yard 150518.jpeg (4.89 KB, 258x219 - viewed 46 times.)

* 400yard150518.jpeg (7.09 KB, 412x269 - viewed 44 times.)
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dusty texian
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« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2018, 06:49:15 am »

How are Ya liking the tang sight ? Heard Don say the Lee 500 looses it around that range , so you can bet it does  , but looks like your load is getting it there for the most part .Hope Ya some luck with the postell bullets  . Can relate to the cant shoot when conditions are right . Working on this house No Wind just Heat and Humidity , go to the range wind is Howling . Good Shooting ,,,DT
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greyhawk
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« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2018, 05:20:48 pm »

Yeah Dusty - am enjoying the tang sight - I had the adjustable eyepiece in my parts bin for ages but carved the base and windage adjustable staff out of a piece of metal in my workshop - no profit in that the time it took but a lot of satisfaction. (needs a couple little tweaks yet)
My mates came yesterday and I got a few lyman postell, a few of the lyman roundnose 457125, and a few of the lyman 490 snover 457671- that last one I like the look of best (I am just a sucker for pointy boolits I think!) but it is a gas check shank and I am seriously tempted to turn the gascheck off it.
All those boolits hauling a lot less lube than the LEE so I have my fingers crossed they will shoot ok without cleaning each shot.................maybe I should get over that idea!! Undecided if I cleaned each shot would get me around the other problem of that magazine stringing shots vertical. 
It would really be a treat to get this 76 shooting good enough to be competitive and I reckon the barrel has the potential to do it.
I appreciate your interest and encouragement with this .
cheers
Greyhawk
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greyhawk
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« Reply #47 on: May 30, 2018, 11:59:19 pm »

How are Ya liking the tang sight ? Heard Don say the Lee 500 looses it around that range , so you can bet it does  , but looks like your load is getting it there for the most part .Hope Ya some luck with the postell bullets  . Can relate to the cant shoot when conditions are right . Working on this house No Wind just Heat and Humidity , go to the range wind is Howling . Good Shooting ,,,DT

Dusty
Its been a while - I have been hangin out over at the other forum trying to figure out loads and stuff -
The Lyman 535 Postell shot good but I dont have the mold - Don and the others that canned the LEE boolit were right it seems - that one shoots ok if its calm but a bit of wind sends it haywire (only in the last fifty or hundred yards I reckon) - I shot a five shot group at 500 the other day that was ten inches by eight but three of em tumbled into it!
Anyway I'm passing this on because I know you have that LEE mold and heres what I did -, I chucked a dozen of em in my lathe and turned the tip off - just a bit - put a flat on it about .215 across - the boolit shortened from 1.408 to 1.298 - Went out in the wind today and shot at 300 and 500 - all holes were round in the target - vertical was inside 8 inches but the wind strung me out sideways about thirty inches - I wasnt trying to read it or make allowances - just held centre and shot into whatever blew - it was pretty stiff but gusting too and switching around from SW to SE (I shot due south)
I'm thinking I will make a file die for this - would only take a few swipes with a file to get it and I reckon it will make that boolit from problem child into shootable - those big lube grooves are a major attraction to me - the other thing is I didnt hardly lose any elevation setting with it - shoots noticebaly flatter to 500 than anything else I have shot.
Anyway just thought this might be some use to you for the heavy barrel gun .
Greyhawk
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dusty texian
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« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2018, 06:06:35 am »

Thanks for the info Greyhawk , what I gather from your test shooting , is that with the right bullet your Uberti 45-75 can shoot @ 500yd. I look forward to seeing your progress as you go. Myself in the middle of moving home and shop has temporarily put a halt to my shooting /testing . ,,,,,DT
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greyhawk
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« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2018, 09:46:55 pm »

Thanks for the info Greyhawk , what I gather from your test shooting , is that with the right bullet your Uberti 45-75 can shoot @ 500yd. I look forward to seeing your progress as you go. Myself in the middle of moving home and shop has temporarily put a halt to my shooting /testing . ,,,,,DT

Yeah Dusty  I am convinced - anyway it will be fun wringing the best I can out of it - its all just getting better as it goes - I am using federal primers and have the mainspring soft - trigger is darn nice right now - the barrel is slick and shiney and a breeze to clean - quite a few little tweaks along the way but its coming together I reckon.
Feel for you on the moving - we been here since 1980 - and theres plenty of room - the thought of trying to move all my stuff ............. my son was a removalists offsider for a couple years and I did a few jobs running trolleys for them - you cant take it all with ya.
All the best with it
Greyhawk
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