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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Major 2, Capt Quirk)  |  Topic: Black MZ 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Black MZ  (Read 405 times)
Dave T
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« on: November 16, 2017, 02:34:28 pm »


My aging brain thinks it remembers reading here (Cas City Forums) that Alliant's new BP substitute Black MZ is just American Pioneer Powder repackaged under a new name. Now I can't find that comment and am asking if this is the case or, if not where Black MZ ranks among the various substitutes?

Dave
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2017, 04:10:12 pm »

DT,

Black MZ joins Pinnacle,  Shocky's gold and several others as APP in a different package.  Made by the APP folks.  It is an excellent BP Substitute.  Very easy to clean up, not very corrosive and makes Beau Coup smoke.  Currently I have only seen it in a single granulation and I have not seen an "f" number applied to it.  I would treat it as ffg.  The granulation of all the APP type products is quite a bit larger than BP.

Like APP and APP Premium, it is loaded with NO compression.  Load until it just kisses the bottom of the projectile and a good crimp.  
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Dave T
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 04:45:20 pm »

Thanks CM. In my part of the country (central AZ desert) I can't find APP anywhere. I was thinking this Alliant product might be more available and it would be a way to try this particular (APP type) black powder substitute.

Dave
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hellgate
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 05:25:08 pm »

Sportsman's Warehouse has the best prices on it.
T
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

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Dave T
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 08:19:47 pm »

Sportsman's Warehouse has the best prices on it.
T

I'm about a mile from them as the crow (or raven in our case) flies. I'll go there tomorrow and have a look see. Thanks for the tip.

Dave
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wildman1
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2017, 08:00:13 am »

I called Alliant because I had a couple of questions about Black MZ.
 I was told that it likes compression. Do NOT use any lube with it. It is the same as APP 3f.
My wife uses it instead of real BP. It is less than $10 per lb. from Sportsmans Warehouse.
wM1
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WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.
Bibbyman
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2017, 08:24:15 am »

I and others have found that BlackMZ is noticeably more powerful than real black.  I load about 2/3 the volume of real black in my Cowboy loads and still have a load with plenty of snap and smoke. Even the full case black powder shooters comment on how much smoke my BlackMZ loads produce.

I spoke with one guy that shoots BlackMZ loads in his 1911 45 Auto!  Full, compressed load is stout enough to cycle the action.  Shocked

I wouldn't recommend using BlackMZ in antique guns of questionable conditions. 
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Dave T
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2017, 01:53:10 pm »

LOL - Some say no compression, some say it likes compression. Some say treat it like FFg and another says treat it like FFFg. Since I bought a pound this morning I reckon I'll have to find out myself. (smile)

And by the way, what's this "no lube" business. Does that mean shoot unlubed cast alloy bullets with this stuff? That doesn't sound right!

Dave
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pony express
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2017, 02:29:07 pm »

They don't need to be lubed, but it's ok to shoot regular commercial smokeless lubed bullets with it.
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Bibbyman
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 03:22:44 pm »

I use water to clean and when dry, use Thompson Bore Butter on a patch to protect bore, etc.  Lately, I've use a damp bore snake, followed by brush, then dry patch, then Bore Butter.
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2017, 08:26:19 pm »

Dave T

Black MZ and APP based propellants REQUIRE no lube.  You can use lube, but you do not need to.  You can shoot bullets with smokeless lube, or you can shoot bullets "as cast."  Doesn't matter

The residue left behind after firing serves as a lubricant.  It also is not cumulative.  Each round fired removes the previous firing's residue.  At the end of a 6 stage match, there is no more residue in the bore than there was after the first stage.

BP and Subs are loaded by volume.  FFFg APP is loaded exactly like FFF Goex.  By volume.  Same same FFg.  If you scooping 1.3cc of FFFg you also scoop 1.3cc of FFg.  Your 1.3cc scoop will throw 1.3cc no matter what the "f" count is.  You can of course, play with your specific volume of powder depending on what you want to accomplish.  Dropping the amount of powder will require an amount of filler to make up for the reduced amount of powder so you still wind up with 1.3cc in the chamber (If that is where your seating your ball).

Ain't guns FUN!!!
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wildman1
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« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2017, 05:38:30 am »

LOL - Some say no compression, some say it likes compression. Some say treat it like FFg and another says treat it like FFFg. Since I bought a pound this morning I reckon I'll have to find out myself. (smile)

And by the way, what's this "no lube" business. Does that mean shoot unlubed cast alloy bullets with this stuff? That doesn't sound right!

Dave
Before I would believe anything about it I would call the tech reps at Aliant.
 That's what I did.
OR read the loading instructions on the bottle.
Says "seat the bullet FIRMLY on the powder".
"Use NO lube".
wM1
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WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.
hellgate
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« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2017, 07:46:46 pm »

My impression of APP/Black MZ is that it has about the same UMPH as BP in my 357mag pistol loads. I usually shoot 777 which is snappier than any BP or other sub but I can't tell the difference in recoil between the other powders. To me, it is a soft shooting powder. It could be that the coarse grains put less weight per volume of powder in the small case and thus less energy.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

SASS#3302L
REGULATOR
RUCAS#58
Wolverton Mt. Peacekeepers
SCORRS
DGB#29
NRA Life
CASer since 1992
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Major 2, Capt Quirk)  |  Topic: Black MZ « previous next »
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