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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Major 2, Capt Quirk)  |  Topic: NIPPLES! 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: NIPPLES!  (Read 1906 times)
Isbjorn
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« on: August 20, 2017, 08:21:02 pm »


Now that I have your attention, does anyone know anyone, private or commercial, that has a set of 6 Treso/Ampco  mm 5.5 x 0.9 x 501 nipples?

I would go for SlixShots in those dimensions...

Or failing that, purcussion caps to fit the nips on a F series Colt's First model Dragoon?
I've looked on line, and called the Stockade in Garden Grove, no joy.

Help?
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2017, 10:04:57 pm »

Have you tried Track of the Wolf?  Their in-house brand is a copy of the Treso but made of stainless steel.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/807/1
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« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2017, 04:28:38 pm »

Track has three pages of nipples I think that will fit just about anything that ever has had a percussion nipple on it. Their stainless steel nipple as Pettifogger mentioned is just like the Treso but of stainless construction. Well made, good quality. I've compared them with Treso's, they are just as good, better according to Track of Wolf.
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« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2017, 04:43:53 pm »

I was surprised how Track stated which caps fit their nipples and rarely mentioned the Remington #10 which is the most versatile cap out there. In my experience if an RWS#1075 fit a nipple so does a Rem#10. Same for the CCI#11s. Ive got about 16 or so C&Bs and about half take the CCI#11, another 1/3 take the RWS1075 but ALL of them will take the Rem#10.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

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« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 08:13:09 am »

I was surprised how Track stated which caps fir their nipples and rarely mentioned the Remington #10 which is the most versatile cap out there. In my experience if an RWS#1075 fit a nipple so does a Rem#10. Same for the CCI#11s. Ive got about 16 or so C&Bs and about half take the CCI#11, another 1/3 take the RWS1075 but ALL of them will take the Rem#10.
You have that right hellgate. Rem 10's fit everything I shoot and have. I've been going to have a shoot all summer where I compare all the caps you mentioned with four different nipples. Factory, Treso, Slix, and Track's. Compare fit before firing, ability to stay on when other cylinders are fired, fragmentation on nipple after firing, etc. I've already compared and checked unfired caps to each nipple for fit (tried some CCI #10's also-they fit nothing I have except for one Pietta 58 Remington cylinder I bought after buying the gun). Will be sort of interesting as some of my revolvers all take the same size (thread, overall length, etc) and I installed two of each on one revolver. After I get done with doing this, I'll put all of one brand, style, etc on each individual revolver. Will have to post my findings. I'm sure someone has done something similar to this and reported it, but gotta find out for myself.
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Isbjorn
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2017, 07:51:44 am »

Have you tried Track of the Wolf?  Their in-house brand is a copy of the Treso but made of stainless steel.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/807/1

Yeah, they have 5.5x0.9s in SS and steel, but the cone parts look shorter than the origs. They said to be sure that the hammer will reach the seated cap. I haven't been able to measure the origs yet.

I'm keeping Track in mind.
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hellgate
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2017, 04:12:50 pm »

Isbjorn,
Here's where I get nipple shims that work great if you have short cones:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-shims/=q5h0dh


Click: Metric 18-8 Stainless Steel Shims for Lengthening Screw Shoulders

Shoulder diameter of the nipples is 8mm (OD[outer diameter]).
  
Get the screw size 6mm which is the nipple threaded shank size (ID).  

Pick the thicknesses you want.

Now, if you are cheaper than me you can make your own shims by taking soft iron or even copper wire and wrap it around a nail or screw about 10 times then snip the coils to make a bunch of open loops that resemble lock washers. Pound them flat on your vise anvil and put them under the nipple flange. You'll need to experiment with various nail and wire sizes but the materials are cheap.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

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Isbjorn
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2017, 05:21:43 am »

My cones measure .300 long. The track nips are stated as .285

Would .015 make that much difference?

Shims are a possibility, but I currently have no way to make them.

It looks like enough shims from McMaster would be about 20 bux and I don't know if they would leave enough thread.

There is no shoulder.
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2017, 02:19:03 pm »

.015 is plenty of difference. You ideally need just a few thou of clearance between the hammer face and the nipple. Most of my guns have indentation where the hammer actually hits the nipples and gets a ring of deformation on the face. The Remington caps seem to have the thinnest wafer of priming compound compared to RWS or CCI. Your nipples have to have a shoulder or else you could screw them clear into the chamber and out the mouth. The shoulder diameter is usually 8mm and the threaded shank is 6mm. As stated above, you can make shims out of soft wire, a solid steel pounding surface upon which to flatten the wire open coils, a nail, and a pair of wire cutters.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

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Isbjorn
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2017, 06:24:58 pm »

Maybe my terminology is skewed. Here's the Track nipple. My stock ones have .015 longer cone.Would enough thread remain after shimming?


 Nipple, 5.5-.9mm metric thread, for .31/.36 Colt and Remington pocket revolvers, #11 CCI cap, hardened steel

    Cone length: 0.285"
    Thread journal length: 0.200"
    Overall length: 0.485"
    Diameter of base: 0.290"

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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2017, 11:16:27 pm »

Now ya got me a little cornfused. I thought we were dealing with a nipple on a full sized gun like an Army or Navy with the 6mm shank and 8mm shoulder. I'm not sure which shim to recommend you buy. If those are overall smaller nipples then it would be best to just make your own. And yes, there will be plenty of threads left to hold the nipple in securely. We're only talking about half of a thread length shim if that so the other 5 or 6 threads are still in use.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

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Isbjorn
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2017, 02:53:10 am »

Now ya got me a little cornfused. I thought we were dealing with a nipple on a full sized gun like an Army or Navy with the 6mm shank and 8mm shoulder. I'm not sure which shim to recommend you buy. If those are overall smaller nipples then it would be best to just make your own. And yes, there will be plenty of threads left to hold the nipple in securely. We're only talking about half of a thread length shim if that so the other 5 or 6 threads are still in use.

Welcome to my world. I thought I had mentioned before, maybe in another thread, that the nips are for a F series Colts 1848 1st Model Dragoon. Sure, it came with nips, but I haven't found any caps that fit. Win #11, Rem #10 and CCI #11 are all too small. I can't afford to buy a tin of every cap ever made. I can't find a peep about what caps they DO take.
I took a guess and got some Tresos, I think they were a common size, 1/4 x 28 Thread, stated to be for Italian Walkers and Dragoons. Evidently my Dragoon is NOT Italian.They wouldn't screw in. I wasn't going to force them. So I bought a pitch gauge. Closest was 0.9. The only ones like that I could find on line was the one I posted yesterday.
This whole thing is frosting my fritters. My MAIN squawk is, why is it so hard to find out what caps the stupid thing takes in the first place?
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2017, 05:56:50 am »

Welcome to my world. I thought I had mentioned before, maybe in another thread, that the nips are for a F series Colts 1848 1st Model Dragoon. Sure, it came with nips, but I haven't found any caps that fit. Win #11, Rem #10 and CCI #11 are all too small. I can't afford to buy a tin of every cap ever made. I can't find a peep about what caps they DO take.
I took a guess and got some Tresos, I think they were a common size, 1/4 x 28 Thread, stated to be for Italian Walkers and Dragoons. Evidently my Dragoon is NOT Italian.They wouldn't screw in. I wasn't going to force them. So I bought a pitch gauge. Closest was 0.9. The only ones like that I could find on line was the one I posted yesterday.
This whole thing is frosting my fritters. My MAIN squawk is, why is it so hard to find out what caps the stupid thing takes in the first place?

What aboot makin the nipples fit yr caps? Chuck em in a drill or dremel tool chuck (small lathe is better if you have it but drill chuck should work) work em down to size with some emery paper with the drill chuck spinnin - I do stuff like that with emery glued to a pop stick - fit the caps as ya go .   
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Isbjorn
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2017, 08:11:17 am »

What aboot makin the nipples fit yr caps? Chuck em in a drill or dremel tool chuck (small lathe is better if you have it but drill chuck should work) work em down to size with some emery paper with the drill chuck spinnin - I do stuff like that with emery glued to a pop stick - fit the caps as ya go .   

I thought about that, but on the one hand I don't have the tools, space or expertise to just say "Hey, I'll do THAT!"

On the other foot, (Movie reference) it IS a stock, supposedly unfired (So surmised the seller) F series 2G pretty much actual Colt which I gather will paper if I wanted to spend the bux. It seems to me, if you have the gun, numbers all match (even the barrel wedge) and I WILL bet nobody could find traces of powder or cap residue, because I'VE never been able to shoot it, I have the box with the little booklets, as far as I know or care everything that came with it originally) you don't NEED the paper.
It's like being too intelligent to spend the bux to join MENSA so you can hang out with eggheads de lux.
I mean, (and I don't bandy THAT phrase lightly,) I really don't want to alter the original If I can avoid it.
It's as, when I was a teenage surfer in So Cal in the mid 60s, I bought an original (pre pop-out] Velzy surfboard from a church friend.
I modified that thing no end. Long story short (I know, too late) that thing would be worth 1K bux plus today.
Research Dale Velzy, As far as I know, he's the only person to have a surf break on the North Shore of Oahu named after him
.

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« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2017, 09:07:46 am »

Call Track, tell them your situation, ask if you can send one of your nipples to them for them to check and send you a set of six that would fit. I've talked with them a number of times--very friendly and helpful. Your post that no size of current made available caps makes no sense. Every reproduction cap and ball that's come down the pike since they've produced them has taken at least one of the available caps offered. The F series Colts made by Uberti, finished by or under contract with Colt all take most any cap offered today (maybe with the exception of CCI 10's that are to small to fit most large frame revolvers that I'm aware of).

 You sure you have  a "original" Colt 1st Model Dragoon offered by Colt back in the 70-80's? Counterfeiters can and do work firearms to be what they aren't by restamping, stamping, altering, etc., firearms to be what they're not. Con artist sellers are alive and doing their thing in the world. Saw one guy at a  antique show trying to sell a Franklin Mint 45 Colt John Wayne 73 Colt as shootable. His line was you could take the plugged cylinder out and replace it with a regular cylinder and shoot it. When I asked him what you did with the screw going up into the barrel holding the end of the ejector shroud when the gun "is shot", he got all pee'd. Of course I told him the gun was just a show gun and he was talking out of the bottom of his buttocks. I had already had him riled after I showed him a Uberti symbol that hadnot been ground off fully of a Open Top 44 that had had some restamping and antiquing done to make it look like an original Colt and his claim was that it was a 1878 Model Colt. I reported him to the show officials that made him take his stuff off of his table. Walked by the table about an hour later and he looked up at me and went back to staring at some paper, the Open Top was absent from view.

A year ago at a large gun show one guy had a very high dollar 1943 serial numbered Springfield M1 Garand on his table that was in pretty good shape. His claim was that it was all original. I pulled the operating rod back that showed a barrel replacement date of 10/55. Pointed it out to him and he got all pee'd off and said that was what the guy who sold it to him told him. Told him he got rooked, he grabbed the gun and turned his back to me. Friend of mine who is aware of the guy said he was one to watch as far as the truth goes and has been known to rip buyers. Went back to the same gun show this weekend. Same guy there, same gun, but the info written on a paper told of the 10/55 barrel. I picked up his still over priced M1 (why he still had it) and played dumb asking questions. The seller I think ID'd me, wasn't very friendly.

Anyway Isbjorn-what ever you have should have nipples that take anything you've mentioned unless some previous owner played fast and loose with the gun and put some unknown scarce fitting nipple on it. Talk with Track, they should be able to give you some insight.
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2017, 10:51:05 pm »

You did not say that you tried CCI #10s. They are the next smallest caps and the RWS #10 (Can't remember the # but not the 1075) is even smaller. The Winchester caps are made by CCI s
o are identical to CCIs. At least you can pince those larger caps to hold them on til you either get smaller caps or bigger nipples from TOW.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2017, 12:13:23 am »

Mr. Choker, I'll try getting with Track about it. Thanks for the suggestion. I love this site. In two days I have rec'd possible solutions for two different dilemmas. Not like my main gun site at all.


Yee HAW!
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« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2017, 08:56:34 pm »

that is odd Hellgate, because RWS 1075 are  nice slip fit on my Slixshot nipples. I used some theother day to clear the flash holes. Fit like a glove (not OJ's) nicely. Saturday the plan is to shoot a new 1851 and I will try them on OEM ni pples and on an with 1861 Sixshot nipples and see what happens. Good I hope there are 2 M of the in my stock.
Bunk
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Isbjorn
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« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2017, 08:41:26 pm »

It's all moot now, because I got a Howell's cylinder for the Dragoon. It went right in and locks up nicely with a hefty pull on the hammer for all four clicks. Can't wait to try it!

Thanks for all your info, compadres, I couldn't have done it without ya!
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WH#3
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« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2017, 01:28:47 pm »

4 clicks?

That's 1 too many.

Mike
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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2017, 04:06:00 pm »

More moot: I just reread my last post and I have edited the text: I was wrong about the RWS sizes. The RWS #1075 is their #11 equivalent. Their #10 (cant remember the # maybe 1050) is the smallest of all the caps I've had and won't fit anything I've ever owned.
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"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

SASS#3302L
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« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2017, 04:20:46 pm »

More moot: I just reread my last post and I have edited the text: I was wrong about the RWS sizes. The RWS #1075 is their #11 equivalent. Their #10 (cant remember the # maybe 1050) is the smallest of all the caps I've had and won't fit anything I've ever owned.

Confusion reigns!!!!
Caps where I live is a take what ya can get and make it work kind of deal
CCI in early days --- Some Remington ----- RWS at the moment are easier to get

I have never been able to figure it out and still none the wiser - I just measured what I have in stock

Remington No 11 = .153
CCI  No 11          = .160
RWS 1075          = .160 (thats their pistol cap) 
RWS 1055          = .200 (their rifle cap)

measured length only - have our pistols fitted for RWS 1075 - seems like they are the smallest fit then Remington not much different - the CCI are loose -------(some of these caps could be 20 yr old stock)
Any of you fellers can make sense of this ? yr smarter than me.
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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2017, 07:21:06 pm »

Personally I like to make things simple (as you can get with cap guns) so all but one of my guns use Slixshot nipples and rem#10 caps.
The one that is not set like that is a 1862 Police model that is the most cap eating boy child of a female dog ever messed with.
Otherwise every thing else uses the same cap no problem.
Bunk
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Isbjorn
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« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2017, 07:32:02 am »

4 clicks?

That's 1 too many.

Mike


Not for MY Colt and repros... The last two might sound like one if you're not listening REALLY carefully.
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« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2017, 01:44:20 pm »

Isbjorn,
  The last two are supposed to sound like one. The bolt locking the cylinder and full cock engagement is supposed to be simultaneous. That's per Colts design. The first "click" in a 4 click Colt is the safety notch which Dragoons do not have which means, it's a 3 "clicker" if it is set up correctly.

Mike
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