Javascript DHTML Drop Down Menu Powered by dhtml-menu-builder.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 23, 2017, 10:53:12 pm

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
* Home FlashChat Help Calendar Login Register
Currently there are 0 Users in the Cas City Chat Rooms!
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Major 2, Capt Quirk)  |  Topic: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC  (Read 1404 times)
Navy Six
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 270


« on: August 15, 2017, 05:29:22 pm »


I have been shooting Hornady's .358-148 gr HBWCs in several Uberti 51/61 Navies with both Kirst and R&D conversion cylinders. Groups are good at Cowboy distances--last time on paper everything well under 2" at ten yards(17 grs of FFF O.E.). However, the factory bullets are covered with some type of waxy substance which I presume is their bullet lube. I normally remove(tediously) this substance and dip the bullet of the completed cartridge in melted Gatofeo lube. This week I didn't have time for the lube dip and shot the bullets as is, with no lube at all. Wow, what a mess in the barrel after 50 rounds. Took about three times the amount of wet patches to get the crud out and the residue had a different texture than normal blackpowder fouling.
 Anyway, my question is--does anyone have experience with a simple method for removing the wax coating from the Hornady bullets? My current approach--wiping down each bullet with a solvent rag--is taking way too long for the amount of shooting I'm doing. I realize Speer makes a similar bullet that doesn't have any coating, but good luck trying to find anybody that has them lately. I have a small dwindling supply of the Speer bullets and the Hornadys are what seem to be currently available.
 I do have two Rapine hollow base molds and those bullets shoot very satisfactorily, but casting enough from a single cavity mold is too slow as well.



Logged

Only Blackpowder Is Interesting
pony express
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2973


« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2017, 09:24:11 pm »

I never tried removing the lube from them. Perhaps slosh them around in a container of paint thinner? Lacquer thinner is pretty powerful stuff. What about hot water? I've heard of people boiling regular lube off of bullets, maybe that would work on the Hornady wax. Also, have you tried lust loading them as they come, then dipping them in your BP lube, wax and all?
Logged
Noz
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1551



« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2017, 10:39:14 am »

Cover a cookie sheet with paper towels stand bullets on their base, put them in the over for a while at a low temp. Lube will melt off and be absorbed by the paper towels.
Logged

Noz
Ruger Old Armys avec poudre noire
john boy
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1474



« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 11:49:16 am »



Pat, the bullets look like they are graphite coated in an unknown carrier
Found this on the Internet -
To remove graphite ...  Nothing unless you use hot, concentrated HNO3, then the surface will be oxidized to CO2 and the acid reduced to NO2. HClO4 will also oxidize graphite. Non-oxidizing acids will not affect graphite
Logged

Regards
SHOTS Master John Boy

WartHog ...
Brevet 1st Lt, Scout Company, Department of the Atlantic
SASS  ~  SCORRS ~ OGB with Star

Devote Convert to BPCR
Coffinmaker
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4266


« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2017, 10:17:37 am »

I have a much simpler suggestion.  APP.  Yep.  APP.  Needs no lube.  None.  If you have a lube on the projectile, APP doesn't care.  APP doesn't foul consecutively.  Concurrently.  Each round fired removes the previous residue and leaves it's residue.  Very Very easy to clean after shooting.
Logged
Good Troy
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 864


GAF Grand Muster 2017


« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2017, 10:20:34 am »

I have a much simpler suggestion.  APP.  Yep.  APP.  Needs no lube.  None.  If you have a lube on the projectile, APP doesn't care.  APP doesn't foul consecutively.  Concurrently.  Each round fired removes the previous residue and leaves it's residue.  Very Very easy to clean after shooting.

Hmmm...maybe I should stop by Cabela's on the way home and get some APP for my 56-50 Spencer replica.  It fouls VERY quickly....sorry of the thread drift....
Logged

Good Troy
SASS#98102
GAF#835
NCOWS#3791
SSS#638
Navy Six
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 270


« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2017, 04:50:06 pm »

I am aware of the benefits of APP, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Twenty years of Cowboy matches have been shot exclusively with blackpowder, and I am dedicated to unlocking "the mysteries" of this stuff. My wife has finally started back shooting after a number of years absence due to surgeries/injuries and my ammo production will need to be increased even further. I load for too many calibers already(along with the casting and lube making) and this is the only factory bullet I use. Just trying to cut down on the time spent at this chore. Hope Speer gets back to producing their version of this bullet.

Logged

Only Blackpowder Is Interesting
wildman1
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2559



« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 05:22:36 am »

If its a waxy substance just put them on a cookie sheet with several layers of newspaper under them, no need to stand them up, just dump em on it. Temp in oven just under 200 degrees. Should remove 99% of the crud (smokiless bullet lube). If that is slow or doesn't get it all up the temp 10 degrees.
wM1
Logged

WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.
Jefro
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 713


know matter where you go, there you are


« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2017, 04:31:57 pm »

Uhhh Undecided, save those for smokeless and get some Big Lube bullets with proper lube Wink Ta Daaa!! Cheesy
Logged

sass # 69420....JEDI GF #104.....NC Soot Lord....CFDA#1362
44-40 takes a back seat to no other caliber
Professor Marvel
purveyor of useless items to the gentry
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1512


life is too short to waste on stupid


« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2017, 05:38:12 pm »

I am aware of the benefits of APP, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Twenty years of Cowboy matches have been shot exclusively with blackpowder, and I am dedicated to unlocking "the mysteries" of this stuff. My wife has finally started back shooting after a number of years absence due to surgeries/injuries and my ammo production will need to be increased even further. I load for too many calibers already(along with the casting and lube making) and this is the only factory bullet I use. Just trying to cut down on the time spent at this chore. Hope Speer gets back to producing their version of this bullet.



Ah My Good Navy Six -
Therein is the difficulty. Since nobody commercially sells a .38 Long Colt (.365) HBRN, Using a .38 (.357) HBWC bullet does make it easier, but is actually a bit of a kludge and the only ones available have "smokeless lube".

If one wishes to stay with real BP, then one will actually need to get a differrent bullet. If I might suggest,
going with .38 LC heal-based bullets would solve a number of issues!

The plusses are numerous:
They are available from a couple of sources, so you would not need to cast,
they actually fill the grooves better and are more accurate,
they "fit in " better with a BP Navy conversion
you can actually use .38 spcl brass

the only downside is crimping, which can be done either with a hand tool or a lee "factory crimp " die .
lubing can be done before or after loading by dipping.

hth
prof marvel
Logged

Professor Marvel's Traveling Apothecary and Fortune Telling Emporium
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods, and Picture Postcards
Dick Dastardly
Master of the Dark Arts - MDA
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4461



WWW
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2017, 05:15:10 pm »

What Jefro said. . Smiley

DD-MDA
Logged

Avid Ballistician in Holy Black
Riverboat Gambler and Wild Side Rambler
Gunfighter Ordinar
Purveyor of Big Lube supplies
Navy Six
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 270


« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2017, 05:29:41 pm »

All my conversions retain the original, unlined (.375)barrel so a hollow base bullet is necessary. As far as I know DD sells 38 caliber Big Lube bullet molds that are suitable for a .358 bore.
 Professor Marvel, I have toyed with the idea of a 38LC heel base bullet but have not done so yet. I appreciate your observation on how this type of bullet "fits in" better with the BP Navy conversions and I agree.
Logged

Only Blackpowder Is Interesting
Professor Marvel
purveyor of useless items to the gentry
American Plainsmen Society
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1512


life is too short to waste on stupid


« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2017, 08:10:41 pm »

All my conversions retain the original, unlined (.375)barrel so a hollow base bullet is necessary. As far as I know DD sells 38 caliber Big Lube bullet molds that are suitable for a .358 bore.
 Professor Marvel, I have toyed with the idea of a 38LC heel base bullet but have not done so yet. I appreciate your observation on how this type of bullet "fits in" better with the BP Navy conversions and I agree.

My Dear Navy -
I myself am struggling with this very thing - I have obtained 2/3 of a box of commercial HBWC cartridges and box of .38 Long Colt ( a bit pricy for this cheapskate)  "to try" in my Pietta Navy ( wth Howell cylinder).

As you have found, getting  commercial HB .38 bullets of any sort are a bit of a problem!

For casting, HB molds are nearly impossible to find. My first thought was to just use my .375 Lee C&B conical mold, but unfortunately it does not create a small enough heal "as cast". A  "proper healed mold" is running nearly $100 - a bit steep for my blood, and quite a commitment without being able to get some examples "to try out".

perhaps we can trade hints, or at least commiserate....

yhs
prof marvel
Logged

Professor Marvel's Traveling Apothecary and Fortune Telling Emporium
Purveyor of Patent Remedies, Snake Oil, Cleaning Supplies, Dry Goods, and Picture Postcards
Navy Six
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 270


« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2017, 11:22:57 am »

Professor Marvel, I was lucky enough to obtain two identical Rapine 150gr hollow base molds before they retired from business. They do shoot very accurately and cast beautifully but:
1) are single cavity and slow to cast in volume
2) grease grooves are thin and shallow. OK for occasional shooting but less than ideal for Cowboy matches
3) finished bullet is long(.741) and takes up a lot of space inside a 38LC case. This becomes somewhat critical when using either the R&D or Kirst cylinders as the cartridge OAL can compromise the powder capacity.
4) this will require further experimentation--GREAT!!--this is all fun as I am now retired and can spend the time at this! So, Professor, I do believe I will investigate the the heel base bullet situation.
Logged

Only Blackpowder Is Interesting
Dick Dastardly
Master of the Dark Arts - MDA
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4461



WWW
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2017, 12:49:54 pm »

FWIW, I've looked into hollow base bullet molds and the cost of production far outweighs the revenue from sales.  Tooling alone runs $900.00 and then the entire six cavity platform would have to be reworked.  So, sorry about that.  One Big Lube solution is to cast the Snakebite bullet with dead soft lead.  With a compressed charge of FFFg black powder it will obturate well enough to give good Cowboy Action accuracy.  Of course all that lube will keep the fouling soft so that it blows out with the following shot.

One solution for a good barrel diameter fit may be to use the Big Lube EPP-UG 36 mold.  They drop from the mold with driving bands of .382 inches and may lube/size to your 38 cal. gun.  You would want to lightly crimp just ahead of the forward driving band for a pocket safe round.

DD-MDA


* EPP-UG 36.jpg (250.89 KB, 1010x747 - viewed 22 times.)
Logged

Avid Ballistician in Holy Black
Riverboat Gambler and Wild Side Rambler
Gunfighter Ordinar
Purveyor of Big Lube supplies
Coffinmaker
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4266


« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2017, 10:44:07 pm »

Just to toss a little useless trivia into the equation. 

I currently use the EPP-UG-36 bullet as my bullet of choice for Planesman.  Rifle of choice is an H&R Handy Buffalo Target in 38-55.  Works a treat.  I load em "as cast" out of the 38-55 over a full case of 2f APP (no lube needed).  Shoot like a laser at Planesman target distance.
I can't say what they do at longer ranges as I have never shot em onna pizza box to see.  They do righteously Klang the Planesman targets though.

All off the foregoing was to say I think the EPP-UG-36 is a dyno-might idea for the 38LC in a conversion.  Rather dandy in a 36 Cap Gun too. 
Logged
Cuts Crooked
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1307



WWW
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2017, 08:40:00 am »

What DD said!
I use as cast snakebite boolits in my 38 S&W breaktop and get good accuracy from it. Cast from dead soft lead they seem to swage up pretty good. Recovered bullets show deep rifling grooves on the slugs.
Logged

Warthog
Bold
Scorrs
Storm
Dark Lord of the Soot
Honorary member of the Mormon Posse
NCOWS #2250
SASS #36914
...work like you don't need the money, love like you've never been hurt, and dance like you do when nobody is watching...
Crow Choker
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 703


River Banker Extraordinaire


« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2017, 06:26:47 am »

I'll 2nd Cuts post and third Dick D's. I cast soft lead Snakebites for my 38 Spec Richards/Mason using both Pearl Lube and SPG. Both work 'top shelf'. No leading, fouling, good cut rifling on shot bullets, accurate with FFF. Haven't tried em with SM, don't know if I will. Back in the day when I shot and loaded hollow base 38 wad cutters by the truck load (PPC/PCC- law enforcement), I never liked Hornadys bullet, much preferred Speers. Finally bought a bevel base Lyman DC wadcutter mold and had very good luck with it. The lead on those bullet company wad cutters isn't linotype hard, but not soft lead hard, which is best for black powder. Can't recall what the Brinnell Hardness averages on them is, I've mined em from ranges and mix them with linotype for hardcast bullets for SM firing rifles and handguns. Use a lead hardness tester to get right hardness needed for 1000+ velocity. Dick you just keep selling those Big Lubers, like em a lot, esp that Ol' Mav Dutchman.
Logged

Darksider-1911 Shooter-BOLD Chambers-RATS-SCORRS-STORM-1860 Henry(1866)-Colt Handgun Lover an' Fan-NRA-"RiverRat"-Conservative American Patriot and Former Keeper & Enforcer of the Law an' Proud of Being Both! >oo
Navy Six
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 270


« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2017, 05:12:47 pm »

I may have just solved my own problem. I just remembered I clean the oil off my bullet molds with automotive brake cleaner in a spray can, and how good it works and how fast it dries. So I put 50 of the Hornadys in a metal collander with a metal drip pan underneath. A three second shot of the brake cleaner and I walked away for an hour--better do this outdoors. When I returned there was a whitish colored sludge in the bottom of the drip pan and the bullets were dry. Comparing one of these to an untouched factory bullet revealed the treated bullet was almost completely free of the tacky substance Hornady uses. I may as well stock up on brake cleaner as this process was quick and almost effortless.
Logged

Only Blackpowder Is Interesting
Dick Dastardly
Master of the Dark Arts - MDA
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4461



WWW
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2017, 04:31:02 pm »

My good friend Pukin' Dog shoots the Sankebite Greasewagons in his 51 open tops with conversion cylinders and loads 38s for them.  He has had good luck with those.  They seem to "bump up" and shoot just fine.  He seats them deep enough that he crimps on the ogive.

DD-MDA
Logged

Avid Ballistician in Holy Black
Riverboat Gambler and Wild Side Rambler
Gunfighter Ordinar
Purveyor of Big Lube supplies
Navy Six
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 270


« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2017, 04:33:40 pm »

I may have to finally try something like that of your friend Pukin Dog, DD. I have hesitated so far because of the chamber mouths of the conversion cylinders.  I had measured them some years back (forget the exact numbers) but I recall them coming up pretty much as standard for 38s. I didn't think any .358 bullet would bump up enough upon firing to fill that .375 barrel. But since I can cast a suitable bullet out of pure lead it might be worth my while to try it for convenience sake. Since I am now retired with nothing but time to experiment, I no longer have any excuse!! I just may place an order for that Snakebite mold DD, as I have been pleased with the molds I've gotten from you in the past.
Logged

Only Blackpowder Is Interesting
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Major 2, Capt Quirk)  |  Topic: Hornady .358-148gr HBWC « previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.074 seconds with 21 queries.