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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1873 (Moderator: Major 2)  |  Topic: Help on deciding which '73? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Help on deciding which '73?  (Read 2155 times)
yahoody
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« on: August 06, 2017, 08:34:05 pm »


I could really use some help making a good decision on a new '73.   

I am looking at getting a 24"  in 44-40.  Straight grip if I can get it.  But none of the rifles available are exactly the configuration I want.  The new Winchester is the closest version.    Newest Winchesters and their more original wood have me hankering for a new rifle.  But noticed yesterday that Pioneer Gun works seems to be lacking in support of the Winchester as of late.  What am I missing?

FWIW I am aware of the Winchester's short stroke kit and the added bits for the Japanese version.  I do like the thin tapered  octagon barrel on the Winchester by comparison to the heavier Uberti for example.  And have put Pioneers Super Short stroke kit in one of my '73s.   Only thing I intend to put in what ever new rifle I buy is add lwt springs and a aluminum carrier.....that and lots and lots of ammo Smiley

If you have experience with the new Winchesters compared to any of the Ubertis made guns and would like to comment it would be much appreciated.  As a comparison for the new rifle I am looking for,   I have an original 1896, 24",  '73 in 38wcp, a Custom Uberti round barrel 23", in .45 Colt/ .45 Cowboy Special and my beloved 32-20 deluxe 20" short rifle from Cimarron amon several other toggle ling rifles.   Had the newest Turnbull gun and wasn't impressed for the $ involved so I sold it.

At the moment here are the rifles in the running...but I sure am open to advice and suggestions.  Not thrilled with the extra money they want for the new Winchester.  Would be if it was a more accurate copy of the original or simply that much better rifle that the Ubertis.

What do ya'll think Old Buffalo Bill Cody was carrying for a '73 when he ran into Yellow Hand in 1876?

That is the gun I want  Shocked

Appreciate the insights and thanks!

Cliff's custom Uberti rifle or a current Winchester Smiley



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Abilene
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2017, 09:02:43 pm »

Is that top one an Uberti?  I wasn't aware they made a 24" straight stock with checkering.  There are plenty of Uberti 24" straight stock rifles available, but not with the checkering.   And is the bottom one a Miroku 30"?  Didn't know they made a 30"  Looks cool.

You mentioned a "more accurate copy".  Except perhaps for the Urethane finish, the Uberti is closer cosmeticly, particularly the tang and barrel markings.  But it's all subjective, and I'm sure the Miroku is a fine shooter.
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yahoody
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2017, 09:08:12 pm »

sorry, edited the pictures to better ask the question....for the next guy that comes along.
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 12:58:10 am »

Okay, for some reason they all looked longer to me when I first looked.  So many 16" and 18" barrels around these days kind slanted my judgement.  I think Taylors has a 24" half-round but probably no checkering.
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wildman1
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 03:54:25 am »

I have one of the Winchesters in 44-40. An action job on one of these is really simple. You do not need to change or grind the springs. Put spacers under the carrier and lever springs and turn the mainspring screw out a turn or two. You may want to smooth the internals a little. I removed the safety mechanism in the firing pin extension but it is not necessary to do that. I have a couple of 73's and a couple of 66's  with different 3rd gen or similar SS kits and you cannot tell the difference when running them. I used a couple of stainless steel washers under the lever and carrier springs. Total cost was less than a quarter. Most of the ideas were from Pettifogger. I kept turn the mainspring out trying to find a point at which it would no longer set off primers. It came loose before that happened. My wife has one of the Winchesters in 357 same result. When you factor in the cost of a ss kit/action job or time spent on a Uberti doing the work the Winchester doesn't seem quite as expensive anymore.
wM1
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yahoody
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2017, 10:19:20 am »

"An action job on one of these is really simple. "

All of you commentary was a big help Wildman...thank you!
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Good Troy
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2017, 11:58:06 am »

FWIW, I think that the modern Winchester '73 is on the "unapproved list" for NCOWS. 
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Good Troy
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Buck Stinson
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2017, 09:19:34 pm »

Cody probably carried a standard sporting rifle.  In 1876, it would have been a first model with mortised thumb print dust cover.   The barrels were heavier on first models than the second and third model, both in round and octagon. Standard length was 24".  Caliber of course would have been .44 WCF.
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yahoody
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2017, 09:36:53 pm »

Quote from: Buck Stinson
Cody probably carried a standard sporting rifle.  In 1876, it would have been a first model with mortised thumb print dust cover.   The barrels were heavier on first models than the second and third model, both in round and octagon. Standard length was 24".  Caliber of course would have been .44 WCF.

Yep pretty well documented as a straight grip standard 24" barreled rifle.  The majority of photos of Cody and a '73  are of octagon barrels.  But I have seen him pictured with a half round pistol grip engraved rifle and a full round barrel 24" as well.  Found it interesting that places claimed he also carried a pair of 44-40s Colts SAA that didn't exist in '76.  He also carried a 1868 Remington Army cap and ball pistol that is well documented.  But find it hard to believe when working for the army in '76 he didn't carry an Army issue Colt SAA in .45.  After the post Custer campaign Cody never scouted again for the Army.  Cody was certainly the real deal.  But his showmanship took over where reality ended so likely we'll never know much of the details of what he really did or the firearms arms he carried.

Played some with the Winchester 24" and a new Uberti 24"again today.  Both in 45 Colt.  Winchester is a pretty slick gun out of the box by comparison and its lighter barrel helps the balance IMO.  Even more so when you fill the tube with ammo.
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wildman1
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 05:05:25 am »

When I bought my Winchester and tried to shoot it as it came it was difficult to get through a stage with it. With the little tuning I did it is as good as any of the rest of my rifles. wM1
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WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.
yahoody
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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 08:17:56 am »

When I bought my Winchester and tried to shoot it as it came it was difficult to get through a stage with it. With the little tuning I did it is as good as any of the rest of my rifles. wM1

Curious what you found as  problems with the gun "as is"?
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wildman1
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« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2017, 10:14:28 am »

It would not always chamber rounds easily, seemed to be very stiff spring wise.   The only smoothing I did to the internal parts was polishing the carrier and inside the receiver. I would be running it in a match and once or twice a stage it would not chamber well. After the spring work and minor polishing it works great. If you would like I can text you some pictures of what the washers look like installed.
wM1
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WARTHOG, Dirty Rat #600, BOLD #1056, CGCS,GCSAA, NMLRA, NRA, AF&AM, CBBRC.  If all that cowboy has ever seen is a stockdam, he ain't gonna believe ya when ya tell him about whales.
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« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2017, 11:02:19 am »

I always find these "I need help deciding what I should buy" threads interesting.  The only person that knows what you want is you.  Candidily for CAS action shooting I would not buy a 24" 73 regardless of who made it.  They simply are muzzle heavy and do not swing well for fast shooting.  I just picked up a Ubeti 73 "Texas Popper" as I really like the half-round/octagan barrels.  However what anyone likes is irrelevant.  The only thing relevant is what the purchaser wants.  Here's my latest 73.  It will be the star of a future gun article for the Cowboy Chronicle.



My advice to people looking at Winchester vs. Uberti 73s is that if you intend to make minimal tuning buy the Winchester.  It has a shorter stroke from the factory and will tune up very easily.  If someone intends to build a race gun get a Uberti as there are far more speed parts for it.  Here is all that is needed for the Winchester carrier and lever springs.  The Winchester springs are quite flat compared to a Ubetti so raising them just a bit makes a HUGE difference.





Well crap, Photobucket won't allow posting photos anymore.  Anyone have an alternative hosting service.  I'm done with Photobucket.
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Pettifogger
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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 11:14:43 am »

I just found the information on Photobucket.  THey no longer allow posting of photos unless you have a paid plan.  Anyone know another method for posting photos here?  This site does not seem to allow posting photos directly from a photos program unless you use a hosting site.
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 11:40:41 am »

If I could get my photos under the 400 limit, I can post direct from my photos on my Lap Top.  Hit Additional Options under the reply window, go to select a file, pick your file (your photo's), pick your photo and attach.  Easy Peasy.  If I could just get my photos under the 400 kb limit  Huh
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Pettifogger
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« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2017, 11:54:24 am »

I did that and made sure the photos were under 400kb.  The ID for the photo shows up next to "Attach Choose File" but nothing appears on the screen.   WELLL!!!! I tried it again.  The photo does not show up under "Preview" but seems to have attached this time.


* PA133805 (1).jpg (139.47 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 39 times.)
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Pettifogger
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« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2017, 11:55:22 am »

Test.  This should be the first photo.
http://www.dakotaskipper.net/ebay/73.jpg

The second and third.

http://www.dakotaskipper.net/ebay/spring.jpg
http://www.dakotaskipper.net/ebay/action.jpg




Hmm.  No photos but the links work.
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Pettifogger
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« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2017, 12:08:35 pm »

One more test.

Photos one, two and three.


* DSC_0032.jpg (378.58 KB, 1280x719 - viewed 42 times.)

* PA133803.jpg (158.82 KB, 960x1280 - viewed 30 times.)

* PA133805 (1).jpg (139.47 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 34 times.)
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yahoody
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« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2017, 12:29:37 pm »

Quote from: Pettifogger
I always find these "I need help deciding what I should buy" threads interesting.  The only person that knows what you want is you.  Candidily for CAS action shooting I would not buy a 24" 73 regardless of who made it.  They simply are muzzle heavy and do not swing well for fast shooting......

Was looking for Winchester/Uberti pros and cons from experience.  Race guns?  Got'um, don't need any more.
But they are handy for shooting BIG steel at pistol distances Roll Eyes

Do appreciate the Winchester tuning tips.
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Forty Rod
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« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2017, 01:00:33 pm »

My wife gave me a .44-40 Uberti '73 from Santa Fe Arms in 1982.  I tuned it myself and did nothing else mechnical to the gun.

I only failed me once (bad reload) and is still tight and minute of bad eyes accurate.  Has a 28 1/4" tapered barrel, straight grip, and handles like a dream.
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King Medallion
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« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2017, 01:40:54 pm »

I just got a nice little carbine. haven't got it to a match yet, did just get it tunes tho.

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Cliff Fendley
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« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2017, 05:04:14 pm »

Top and middle rifles are both 20" Uberti/taylor/cimarron.  Didn't get the 24" photos or they don't make it.  Love to have that top gun with a 1/2 oct 24".

Bottom is a 24" Winchester.

You can get that top gun from Cimarron with 24 inch 1/2 octagon. You'll have to order it. I've got one myself.

It is nice too, weight wise it handles about like a 20 inch barrel but has the longer sight radius of the 24.
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yahoody
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« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2017, 06:16:22 pm »

Cliff was kind enough to  send me a few pictures of his custom Uberti.  Outstanding rifle!  Thanks for the input.  I have a SASS race gun built with a half mag tube and a medium weight Shilen match barrel.   I chambered it for and shoot 45 Cowboy Specials  (holds 12) in that one so know the half round '24 was gonna be close for fast handling.   Also set back the rear sight to the maximum the elevator allows to extend the sight radius which Uberti does on their saddle rifle.  Will do that again.  I pushed the front sight forward some on the Shilen as well.   

Cliff's outstanding rifle....


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« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2017, 06:47:07 pm »

If you already have a race gun then look at the features you want and then see if either Uberti or Winchester makes what you want.  Either will give you good service.  I have both and each has its tuning benfits and detriments.  Again, if I were going to keep the gun basically stock, the Winchester is easier to tune.  Some people seem to go nuts over whether their Japanese or Italian clone is "authentic."  The only way to get an authentic gun is, of course, to purchase an original antique American made Winchester.  Neither of the clones is an exact copy.  Of the two the Uberti is closer to the original.

Cliff's rifle is a beaut.  To get that type of finish on a Winchester you would have to get the Navy Arms version with the Turnbull case hardening.
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Cliff Fendley
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« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2017, 06:49:55 pm »

yahoody, how did you post that picture? I was using photobucket but all that has changed and I can't figure out how to post pictures on here.
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