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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Colt SAA Clones (Moderators: RRio, Gen Lew Wallace, Hoof Hearted)  |  Topic: "TR" laser engraved Cimarron? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: "TR" laser engraved Cimarron?  (Read 2709 times)
yahoody
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« on: August 03, 2017, 02:14:10 am »


Anyone else seen one of these?  I was impressed enough with the over all fit and finish with the laser engraving to pick one up.  Will shoot it in the morning with very few changes. Hoping for the best!    Model and whole seller is, Cimarron Arms, Teddy Roosevelt Laser engraved, by Pietta.

I like it.  Going to shoot it now.








Post OP....

First 6 in bright sun and no shade @ 25yards off a good solid rest.  Hard to see those shiney sights and get a consistant sight picture with the thin blade and tiny V notch.  But I aint complaining.  I like the sights as they are.  Shooting left here is likely the bright sunlight reflecting off the sights as much as it is POA/POI.



And the next 60 on top of that six from the same distance.  This one is a keeper for me.



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« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2017, 11:49:13 pm »

The laser engraving on some of the new guns is pretty darn nice.  I like Pietta revolvers.  One big plus for me is that they have a firing pin bushing.  Some makes do not.
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« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2017, 12:16:38 am »

Excellent  Smiley
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Coal Creek Griff
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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2017, 12:20:36 am »

Being a big fan of TR, I've admired that gun (and the originals).  Beautiful.  Thanks for the photos!

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« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2017, 10:28:47 am »

By the way, I think that an excellent choice for holster would be Rick Bachman's superb reproduction of TR's original:

http://www.oldwestreproductions.com/products/details.cfm?id=31



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* TR Holster.jpg (183.86 KB, 372x600 - viewed 51 times.)
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yahoody
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« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2017, 11:11:18 am »

Thanks Coal.  That is a nice one for sure. Shocked  I have a few good ones for a 7.5" gun.  But I like a cross draw on the horse, half flaps and Slim Jim's with pretty much full coverage.











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llanerosolitario
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2017, 08:56:46 am »

I have seen quite a few, during  the last Shot Show in Las Vegas, and at  the IWA, in Germany, last Jan.

Yes, they are handsome but....nothing compares to the real engraving, in my opinion. They are very much 2D, while real engraving is 3D.

I can't help but notice that  boring flatness  every time I observe it. It also lacks all detail in the shading of the scrolls...which is a bit disturbing to the trained eye, and gives the impression of poor quality o  a beginners work.


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yahoody
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2017, 09:44:59 am »

Quote
Yes, they are handsome but....nothing compares to the real engraving"

I have several engraved guns from Adams Sr and Jr.,  Smalley,  Quigley, Harper, Downing and Frank Leaman.  I shoot them all.  And I like some of the guns/art better than others.  They are all pieces of art work.   Including the Cimarron TR.  Level of the "art" is commensurate with wait times, current value and retail prices.

The TR version actually reminds me visually of some of the well worn early 7.5" guns that Nimschke did.   This one I'll shoot.  A Nimschke I wouldn't.    It might be "basic art" but it is a gun one can use, carry and shoot daily and not watch your investment disappear.   And for less than $700 that is a deal to me.  It scratches an itch for  some including me. 

I wouldn't buy this gun as the show piece of a engraved gun collection.  I wouldn't even buy it as my first SAA.  But it does make a fun, and inexpensive by comparison, shooter if you like and know something about engraved guns. 

Point is, I have few to actually make that comparison to.   And I still really like the TR Cimarron and  don't see it as any thing more or less than it is.     That would be?  A beautiful, shiny nickel gun that has been all scratched up...that shoots really good. 

$700 or 70K+.  You get what you pay for.

Dave Lanara's beautiful old Nimschke..who also did TR's original.

http://www.coltforum.com/forums/attachments/single-action-army/366073d1501951552-shooting-engraved-guns-cimg2002.jpgTR's original



and another from the same artist's hand...


.
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2017, 11:24:15 am »

I have seen quite a few, during  the last Shot Show in Las Vegas, and at  the IWA, in Germany, last Jan.

Yes, they are handsome but....nothing compares to the real engraving, in my opinion. They are very much 2D, while real engraving is 3D.

I can't help but notice that  boring flatness  every time I observe it. It also lacks all detail in the shading of the scrolls...which is a bit disturbing to the trained eye, and gives the impression of poor quality o  a beginners work.


Laser engraving is dramatically cheaper than the real thing. For some people, it may be all they can afford. High end engravers charge thousands of dollars for a pistol, but you can get laser engraving for a few hundred.
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Coal Creek Griff
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2017, 11:40:36 am »

For those who haven't seen it, here is a link to the Autry TR revolver (and holster) with images:

http://collections.theautry.org/mwebcgi/mweb.exe?request=record;id=M539660;type=101

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* 85_5_6detail4.jpg (78.95 KB, 640x425 - viewed 47 times.)

* TR Horse (Smaller).jpg (311.52 KB, 2887x2290 - viewed 52 times.)
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yahoody
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2017, 11:41:56 am »

Quote
Laser engraving is dramatically cheaper than the real thing.

Not to be truculent but I gotta disagree.  Engraving is engraving so these are the "real thing".  Just not very expensive "things" because of the what is missing time and skill Smiley.  How the engraving is done is a totally different conversation.  Few, as in very few, actually use only a hammer and chisel these days. 

Over the last 30 years laser engraving has gotten much much better.  While it has yet to rival even good machine aided hand  engraving it is getting there.  But laser or not it is real engraving.  Current Uberti laser engraving below.  My TR version is from Pietta.

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llanerosolitario
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2017, 04:39:30 pm »

Cutting steel, with a pneumatic chisel takes a lot of skill. Almost as much as using a hand burin. The difference is in the effort.

On the other hand, a laser evaporates steel. A burin or chisel, makes a cut. That is one of the reasons why  laser engraving is so flat. The other reason is that in hand engraving, normally the background is removed, lowered by removing material. A laser can do it too. But it cannot do a cut..and it can not dot the background by punching it.
  
Doing a cut in the steel , developing a burr, is, in short, totally different to drawing in the steel evaporating it.

The revolver you are showing was hand engraved in some areas like the back of the frame over a previously laser engraved pattern, like in the back part of the frame.
 
The  background of the scrolls in the cylinder  has also  being hand punch dotted after the scroll was laser engraved. So it is a laser engraved/ hand improved engraving.
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yahoody
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2017, 04:50:04 pm »

No argument on what kind of skill it takes to run an air hammer or a hand chisel.  Not a lot of skill envolved to do laser "engraving" or electronic etching for that matter.

Different strokes for different folks.  I like this one just as much as I like guns that cost me 10x's as much.  Heck it actually shoots better out of the box than some of my high dollar and long wait guns did upon arrival.   I shoot them, so that adds a BIG premium for value to me.....
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yahoody
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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 12:59:42 am »

Finding the "flat" comment humorous tonight.   Been fitting a fine "Tailrider" Slim Jim holster tonight.  I'd asked for a tight fit on the holster to carry on a  horse safely.  Holster is tight no question and takes some breaking in to fit. 

Gun aint flat that is for sure and certain.  In and out of the holster the leather is taking a toll.   New gun is grinding up my holster like it is coated in emory paper.
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Major 2
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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2017, 04:20:47 am »

Nice shooter .... some would complain if they were hung with a new rope  Smiley
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« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2017, 01:13:34 pm »

I may be one of the few who appreciates llanerosolitario's critiques. Not a lot of tact but informative and edjucational. One of the things that impresses me most about Uberti and Pietta is how they have constantly strove to improve their guns and reinvested in better processes and new technologies, from hammer forged frames to CNC to laser engraving. True they are made to a price point but I believe they have honestly tried to give the consumer the best possible product within that price point.

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« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2017, 01:32:24 pm »

Nice shooter .... some would complain if they were hung with a new rope  Smiley

Others would complain if they were hung period.  Grin
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yahoody
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« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2017, 01:00:55 pm »

interesting read on laser engraving

http://gunsoftheoldwest.com/2014/12/deep-laser-engraved-guns-pietta/#1-lead-deep-laser-engraving

edited for the wrong link previous
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« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2017, 08:32:16 am »

I tried both machine engraving from the low quality Laser to the mid level CNC'd Baron technology engraving and that eventually led me to ordering a "Real" hand engraved by Uberti. Of course the wait time is 6 months and counting. I do not like the laser and sold off the one I had. I still love the CNC'd Baron Technology because it actually cuts the steel and leaves a jewel like pristine cut. There is no comparison between a laser and CNC, much like there is no comparison between a CNC and Hand push 3D Master engraver.

But it's like others mentioned...you get what you pay for.

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yahoody
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« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2017, 09:41:27 am »

Nope..no comparison on cost or labor involved.  But I am unclear as why any one would compare a $7000 master engraved gun like my Harper and Adams guns with a machine engraved $600 one.  That is bewildering to me.  Like comparing real ivory to the PVC Pietta used on this gun.  I like the material but it isn't ivory.    No comparison changes the fact all of them are really nice guns.





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LonesomePigeon
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« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2017, 01:52:55 pm »

sfc rick, I have never heard of Baron Technology CNC engraving. Is the Ruger Vaquero you posted an example of such engraving?
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yahoody
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« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2017, 01:59:40 pm »

I had added the wrong link previous.  Worth a read of the GUNS of the OLD WEST article...which mentions Baron as well.

Hard to believe the comments on the current state of laser engraving when you start making actual gun to gun comparisons.

Hard to believe as in "having never seen it".
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« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2017, 05:38:52 pm »

I have seen quite a few, during  the last Shot Show in Las Vegas, and at  the IWA, in Germany, last Jan.

Yes, they are handsome but....nothing compares to the real engraving, in my opinion. They are very much 2D, while real engraving is 3D.

I can't help but notice that  boring flatness  every time I observe it. It also lacks all detail in the shading of the scrolls...which is a bit disturbing to the trained eye, and gives the impression of poor quality o  a beginners work.


Sorry it displeases you Llanero.

Do you understand that (except foryour informational posts) many of your comments come across as a "snooty snob", "better than everybody else"?

Most of  us are "working stiffs" that can't afford to pay $7K for a revolver!

When you try to compare factory laser engraving to hand engraved work, and dismiss the laser engraving with such comments as:

>I can't help but notice that  boring flatness  every time I observe it. It also lacks all detail in the shading of the scrolls...which is a bit >disturbing to the trained eye, and gives the impression of poor quality o  a beginners work.

That's like telling a fellow who is excited over his new (affordable) factory Italian sportscar that it just "doesn't have the appeal of a hand built Lamborghini" !

Then you are taking the "snooty snob" approach . Are the "rest of us " supposed to "do without" because the affordable laser cut engraving doesn't meet your standards? Do you really think that one can compare the two?  A better comparison is how much better the laser cut engraving is over the old "acid etching" .

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yahoody
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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2017, 07:06:21 pm »

Funny really when you think about it.  Colt's were originally nothing but tools.  The factory learned early on under Samuel to carve the tools up and make them pretty which helped sales.

But they were nothing but tools back then.  Even the best master engravers are just scratching up metal with a hand chisel.  How deep it gets carved depends a lot of the engravers skills or lack of. 

I have engraved guns that have valleys carved deep into the metal...by  master engravers.  And I have one (now two as I bought a duplicate) laser engraved Piettas.   They aren't flat..no one who has actually seen and handled one would claim it was.  And frankly as a tool the laser engraving is more fitting in my mind than a hand engraved piece worth thousands of dollars.   Hand engraving a 3rd Gen Colt might well be questionable.  Adding hand engraving to a Pietta or a Uberti is a waste of time and money...again IMO.  Simply because the base guns have so very little value and no history. 

Think back to the hay day of the Colt SAA and every cowboy wanting one.  Who wouldn't want a fancy six gun?  Hand engraved, ivory, pearl and gold or silver finishes were top dollar.   They bought ivory and pearl and on occasion an engraved gun...but rarely.  Fancy guns or engraved guns were just too expensive for most working folk.  I have to think back then, as now, a lot of folks might actually like and want an engraved, PVC gripped Pietta.  It is a hell of a nice tool if one has the need...and pretty too.   I own a safe full of master engraved, matched pair,  Colts,  sporting ivory.   Funnier still that I think enough of the recent Pietta to buy a pair of them.     

Only one I need to please is me, and this pair of Pietta does that just fine.  The dollar invested has nothing to do with.
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« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2017, 07:29:16 pm »

I am with you, Yahoody!

As a C&B affecianado I am biding my time until I see the laser-engraved Pietta of my dreams!
I am *still* thinking about "Captain Schaeffers Colt "  even if the barrel is 1/2" too long ....



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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  Colt SAA Clones (Moderators: RRio, Gen Lew Wallace, Hoof Hearted)  |  Topic: "TR" laser engraved Cimarron? « previous next »
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