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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Darksider's Den (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Major 2, Capt Quirk)  |  Topic: Black powder load for H&R carbine... 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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flatapple
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« on: July 30, 2017, 02:35:23 pm »


I have a H&R Cavalry Model, 45-70 GOVT. carbine and would like to shoot black powder in it.  I have read the carbine load is 55gr. of black powder.  All I have on hand for bullets is .459, 545gr. SPG lube.  Are these okay to use or what is the proper/popular bullet?
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wildman1
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« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2017, 02:53:21 pm »

Proper bullet is usually 405g for a trapdoor.
wM1
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ira scott
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« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2017, 05:21:36 pm »

The point in the 55 grain powder charge for the carbine load was to lessen the recoil in a lighter weapon, a big old 545 grain bullet will not help in that regard. I disassembled an original WRA blackpowder .45-70 carbine cartridge and it was loaded with a bullet that weighed 409.7 grains with 60 grains of black powder and a COL of 2.440. I'm also not sure if an H&R carbine has a fast enough twist to stabilize a 545 grain bullet if you are looking for top accuracy. Have fun! .45-70+blackpowder=FUN!
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1860Henry
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2017, 07:43:06 am »

For my Trapdoor carbines, I am loading 55 grains of 1.5 F Kik or 2F Goex and Lee 459-405 HB .45-70 bullet. The bullet is 405 grains, has three deep lube grooves, and a hollow base. We cast these and size and lube in a Lubrisizer with homemade lube (about 50% beeswax and 50% sheep tallow).

The above load has been very accurate in my H&R carbine.  It has also been equally accurate in my original carbine and shoots well in rifles as well.
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Dick Dastardly
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« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2017, 04:18:01 pm »

Ho Bushwhacker,

If you are getting good performance from your load, no need to search further.  Go shoot!

Hold center.

DD-MDA
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44caliberkid
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« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2017, 05:04:44 pm »

That Lee bullet was made for trapdoor rifles. It has a hollow base because bore dimensions varied so much in those original rifles and carbines. I shoot mine in a rifle, unsized, lubed with my home brew lube. Your bore is probably more standardized, but you could slug it to get exact dimensions. You have to order the mold direct from Lee, I don't think Midway or anyone else carries it as a stock item. You can also get a brass powder compression die from Lee. Compressing that powder charge in 45-70's scares the crap out me. Takes a lot of muscle on the lever. Lee also says to always use a wooden dowel or mallet to hit the sprue cutter, believe them!  I'm on my second one.
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1860Henry
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2017, 04:17:45 pm »

Thanks, fellows, but I was answering the original post.  I am quite satisfied with my load.  Also, I believe the Lee bullet I mentioned is a fairly close copy of the original Frankford Arsenal bullet developed for the .45-70 Govt. cartridge. 
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Arizona Trooper
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2017, 09:57:59 pm »

You can shoot those 545 grain bullets, but they will be pretty brutal unless you load them way down. Back many years ago I had some 45-70-500 ammo I wanted to unload, and only a carbine with me. Well.... after a dozen or so rounds I quit. It made a 300 Win Mag seem tame. That night I discovered a bruise in my right shoulder in the exact shape of a Springfield buttplate, complete with impressions of the screw heads and slots! Ouch!

Swiss 1 1/2 F with the Lee 405 hollow base bullets will pretty much duplicate the original ballistics. 55 gr. with three card wads runs 1150 fps in an original carbine. 68 gr, in a rifle runs 1323 fps, with a std. dev. of 4.3 (!).   
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Seamus
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2017, 11:47:28 am »

You can get the hollow base 405g bullets from Buffalo Arms.  Works great in my original TD carbine. I also use a 55g load of 2F.

Seamus
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