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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  NCOWS (Moderator: Will Ketchum)  |  Topic: AUTHENTICITY and GENUINE WARDROBE IN WESTERN FILMS 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: AUTHENTICITY and GENUINE WARDROBE IN WESTERN FILMS  (Read 1363 times)
levisurfer
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« on: July 29, 2017, 02:22:50 pm »


Hey!
Love old photos showing real authentic and genuine cowboys of the Wild West period.
I am intrigued by the use of collared shirts by so many cowboys.  I have been told by numerous people "in the know" that collards did not come in on shirts till late that century.  These images tend to suffuse otherwise.
I am a keen serious amateur photographer and filmmaker from the UK and love to film westerns in Arizona.  WE tend to aim for the 1880s as that gives us options to use older Civil War weapons as well as the 1873 Colt and Winchester.  Plus it gives us more latitude when it comes to gearing the cowboys up in genuine wardrobe, boots and weapons.

Can anyone give us some honest and authoritative advice on the wardrobe of that period.  Our next film will be set in southern AZ in or around 1880s and we will have a Doctor, Sheriff, lawmen and 5 outlaws.  The outlaws will be mainly 20s - 30s with one older outlaw in his 50s. 
What about facial hair?  I see moustaches were popular.  But what about beards, full beards, short beards, stubble, 5 o'clock shadows?
Any advice would be great appreciated and any more photographs to help us "style our cowboys would be great. 
My email address is paulv@paulv.co.uk
And if you would like to see the trailer to my last 60 minute western just let me know.
Thanks
Paul
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River City John
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2017, 03:56:55 pm »

Photos sent via e-mail.

I would highly recommend the book "I See By Your Outfit". (ISBN search : https://isbnsearch.org/isbn/9780931271335) Many use it as a primary reference.

Another point, the lore of western cowboys and popularization through dime novels, there are a lot of pics (sent you some) that are studio photos where you could dress up using props supplied by the photographer. Send home a souvenir of your jaunt out West to the folks back East, and so forth. They are interesting, but not necessarily accurate.
For one thing, the subjects are too, well, neat and clean.

RCJ
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"I was born by the river in a little tent, and just like the river I've been running ever since." - Sam Cooke
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2017, 05:07:03 pm »

Woha,

What an incredibly difficult question to answer.  Actual "Cowboys" were a very small percentage of the population.  Most true cowboys didn't have a "wardrobe" to speak of.  Maybe two pair of socks (if any), two pair of drawers, one shirt, a vest and a coat.  Maybe a pistol and gunbelt tucked away in saddle bags with everything he had except what he was wearing, stuffed in the back of chuck waggon.

The same applied to anyone who primarily lived on a horse.  Outlaws, traveling lawmen, Tinkers etc.  Townfolk were a mite different.  Basically the same clothes, just clean.  Collar shirts go back as far as .... well a long time back.  Collars were common well before the 1880 while "collarless" were also normal.  Shirt (oops) pockets were also seen way way back.

Don't forget, the 1873 Colt was NOT everyones firearm nor was the the 1873 Winchester, the gun that won the west.  The shotgun was.  Aw heck, I could just go on forever so I also suggest you snag a copy of the book recommended by River City John.  Packing Iron is also a "must read."

Coffinmaker
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Abilene
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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2017, 05:55:15 pm »

Levisurfer, Howdy and glad to hear someone is trying to add authenticity to the genre.  "I See By Your Outfit" as mentioned above, is very good.  Also, I highly recommend "The Fringe of Hollywood: The Art of Making a Western" by Peter Sherayko.  This book is aimed at those making the movies and not only gives good examples of what is correct and not correct for clothing, saddles and tack, guns, etc. but gives hints about what is currently available from manufacturers to fill those needs.
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River City John
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2017, 06:49:19 pm »



 Shit pockets were also seen way way back.



Coffinmaker

I never realized there were pockets for this! Shocked Wink Grin

RCJ


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"I was born by the river in a little tent, and just like the river I've been running ever since." - Sam Cooke
"He who will not look backward with reverence, will not look forward with hope." - Edmund Burke
". . .freedom is not everything or the only thing, perhaps we will put that discovery behind us and comprehend, before it's too late, that without freedom all else is nothing."- G. Warren Nutter
NCOWS #L146
GAF #275
http://www.cascity.com/posseprofiles/River_City_John
Professor Marvel
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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2017, 06:54:30 pm »

THERE ARE ALSO a whole boatload of photos posted by Del, ... let me seeif I can find those links

Shit pockets were also seen way way back.
Coffinmaker

I really would rather not have one of those!

oops I see RCJ beat me to it!

yhs
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River City John
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« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2017, 06:58:55 pm »

Paul,
let me recommend another reference source I use a lot.

"Dating Fabrics A Color Guide 1800-1960" by Eileen Jahnke Trestain (ISBN 0-89145-884-0)

The era was a gaudy carnival . . .

http://www.reproductionfabrics.com/shelf.php?ID=5  ,and here's a good site that caters to reenactors and historical costumers.

RCJ
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"I was born by the river in a little tent, and just like the river I've been running ever since." - Sam Cooke
"He who will not look backward with reverence, will not look forward with hope." - Edmund Burke
". . .freedom is not everything or the only thing, perhaps we will put that discovery behind us and comprehend, before it's too late, that without freedom all else is nothing."- G. Warren Nutter
NCOWS #L146
GAF #275
http://www.cascity.com/posseprofiles/River_City_John
Major 2
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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2017, 03:30:58 am »


 Shit pockets were also seen way way back.



Coffinmaker


I never realized there were pockets for this! Shocked Wink Grin

RCJ


I was gonna say .....  Shocked    even drawers had "trap doors"  to eliminate accumulations .... course I do have a drawer for MY Sh*t
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2017, 11:36:17 am »

AH ... OOPS !!!!  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked  Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy  Cool

Coffinmaker

Pockets have amazing ..... "utility" Hum??
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River City John
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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2017, 12:57:29 pm »

A quick note.
Detachable collars, like button on placard-front shirts, were an expediency for cleanliness. These areas would receive the most grime. Easier to wash the collar or shirt front rather than the whole garment.
Clothes would be worn for a long time between cleaning. A good brushing off, rather than cleaning, extended their presentability.

Also why the duster was universal for travelers and people spending a lot of time outdoors. Kept the dust and dirt to a minimum on the clothes underneath.


RCJ
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"I was born by the river in a little tent, and just like the river I've been running ever since." - Sam Cooke
"He who will not look backward with reverence, will not look forward with hope." - Edmund Burke
". . .freedom is not everything or the only thing, perhaps we will put that discovery behind us and comprehend, before it's too late, that without freedom all else is nothing."- G. Warren Nutter
NCOWS #L146
GAF #275
http://www.cascity.com/posseprofiles/River_City_John
Delmonico
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« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2017, 01:06:18 am »

Photo bucket is holding those links hostage and i won't pay.  Working on a new set of files but will take a while.  Can't even get the PB site to even open half the time to redownload them.
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2017, 01:08:49 am »

As I said in the HS post, collars were on all shirts, there are different types and learning terms is the best start.  Outside of studio pictures the folded collar shirt was the most common with working men.
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Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.
OklaTom
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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2017, 04:25:46 pm »

Paul,
let me recommend another reference source I use a lot.

"Dating Fabrics A Color Guide 1800-1960" by Eileen Jahnke Trestain (ISBN 0-89145-884-0)

The era was a gaudy carnival . . .

http://www.reproductionfabrics.com/shelf.php?ID=5  ,and here's a good site that caters to reenactors and historical costumers.

RCJ


I resemble that remark, as does Yuma!
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Ben Beam
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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2017, 10:21:44 pm »

Paul,
let me recommend another reference source I use a lot.

"Dating Fabrics A Color Guide 1800-1960" by Eileen Jahnke Trestain (ISBN 0-89145-884-0)

The era was a gaudy carnival . . .

http://www.reproductionfabrics.com/shelf.php?ID=5  ,and here's a good site that caters to reenactors and historical costumers.

RCJ


Thatís a great resource, thanks for sharing it. Funny how I never see reproductions using patterns that look anything like what they show.
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« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2017, 11:59:25 am »

I resemble that remark, as does Yuma!

I do at times.


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Mongrel Historian


Always get the water for the coffee upstream from the herd.

Ab Ovo Usque ad Mala

The time has passed so quick, the years all run together now.
Tascosa Joe
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« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2017, 01:15:16 pm »

Thatís a great resource, thanks for sharing it. Funny how I never see reproductions using patterns that look anything like what they show.

You might check out James Country Mercantile in Liberty, MO.
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  NCOWS (Moderator: Will Ketchum)  |  Topic: AUTHENTICITY and GENUINE WARDROBE IN WESTERN FILMS « previous next »
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