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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  Shooter's Meeting (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Camille Eonich)  |  Topic: Quickest setup - left crossdraw or not? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Quickest setup - left crossdraw or not?  (Read 1134 times)
McCrower
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« on: July 21, 2017, 02:12:31 pm »


After my first big competition in CAS, I noticed the the top shooters all had the same setup concerning the revolver holsters. They used left and right draw holsters which were fairly tight together in the front. I use crossdraw setup for left revolver, and is happy with this setup. But I can understand that this is maybe a bit slower than the tight left/right holster setup. Is this correct and what do the top shooters in the USA use?


or

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Abilene
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2017, 04:35:20 pm »

I would say no real speed advantage to either way.  Maybe not at the match you attended, but there are still plenty of people who use the crossdraw, just gotta always be cognizant of the 170 and be prepared to possibly deal with people who say you broke the 170 but they didn't really have a proper viewing angle to see that.  It all comes down to practice and what you are comfortable with.  Either way can be very fast.  It does seem to be a trend that the holsters are moving closer to the front of the body.   I am not a top shooter and so don't mind switching my leather around depending on what guns I'm shooting and what style (obviously gunfighter style does not use the crossdraw).
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August
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2017, 03:30:32 pm »

The SASS rules give a significant advantage to 'straight draw' pistols.  So, a true 'cross draw' -- where the holster is canted -- is a constant source of irritation, controversy, and in certain situations a real impediment to moving fast.

Many top shooters who are interested in acquiring both pistols with their strong hand from leather have migrated to a modified cross draw where all of the cant is removed from the rig and the off-hand holster is vertical.  It's an open question how this affects application of the rules, and probably depends on the individual shooter's movements during transitions.  But, most shooters who've gone to this type of rig are very good at re-holstering without problems in all movement situations.  

In addition to reflecting on the rules and how that is going to affect your skill development, there is the matter of how your rig affects all four of the transition patterns used in CAS.  A true 'cross draw' can impede transitions to the next firearm in at least two of these four patterns.  Here again, top shooters have worked out ways for the vertical cross draw rig to advantage them in all four transition patterns and when moving both to the right and to the left during a stage.

You will more commonly find a person who can explain the intricacies of straight draw transitions than you will find a person who can convey the concepts necessary for running a modified cross draw rig.  But, if you have an expert at hand who can help you with the issues of using a modified cross draw, then listen to every word they say.  Much of their skill in not immediately apparent nor easily understood.

So, to summarize:  Don't use a true, canted rig cross draw unless looking good is much more important to you than being good.  The most easily understood and efficient rig is the double strong side -- many experienced shooters can help you with the various transition patterns, and the rules afford you great advantage when you use a double, strong side rig.  And, finally, if you know an expert who is using a straight draw "cross" rig, ask them to teach you how to use one effectively.  

Both the double strong side rig and the modified "cross" rig will prevent you at times from transitioning in an optimal way.  Each, in very different movement circumstances.  Another way of saying this is that both these rigs can be a huge advantage in certain transitions when moving in a particular direction.  

The main problem on every stage is the matter of which hand -- left or right -- needs to be free on the transition to the final firearm.  How you use your pistols is one important component of finding a solution to that problem.
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maldito gringo
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2017, 04:55:03 pm »

Don't worry too much about what works for other folks. Find what works for you and stick with it. Practice makes the difference. I use double straight draw and shoot duelist, no 170 issues, no cant on the holsters, just practice practice practice.. that's the way to Carnagie Hall son.
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2017, 07:10:55 pm »

I agree with the last poster, experiment and find out what works for you. You don't specify if you are duelist, double duelist or a modern shooter. IMO, a crossdraw and strong side holster works best with either a duelist or modern shooter. Unless the shooter is double duelist or double modern, using 2 forward facing holsters require transferring the offhand gun back and forth. I've always shot duelist but always start the stage with my body turned enough that I can draw and reholster my cross without moving my feet, this correctly alignes my body to use the rifle or shotgun. Don't worry about what the top shooters are doing, experiment by drawing and dry firing until whatever you do is smooth and seamless. Don't forget to incorporate the long guns, good cas shooting is all about smooth transitions. No fumbles. The slickest is what my daughter in law was working on when she thought she wanted to do cas. She is ambidextrous so we were working on her being double modern, using 2 forward facing holsters, whichever holster she drew from became her strong hand and the opposite hand her weak hand. She was getting good but then she had our granddaughter, so much for cas. Darn younguns. Good luck.
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McCrower
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2017, 05:53:03 am »

Thanks for the replies guys. I shoot tradiotional style (modern style?).. and I have used a straight holster for the right gun  and a crossdraw holster on the left side and draw the gun with my right hand. I am fairly happy with that, but I notice that it is a bit of a hassle when moving on the stage an setting up the position of the body when shooting the revolvers.. I think I will dry double strong side holsters now and see how that works. Any advices on what type of double strong side holsters the works the best?

A. McCrower
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McCrower
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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2017, 06:04:23 am »

Something like this?

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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2017, 10:54:36 am »

Most of the "Top Shooters" around the CAS world are using Gun Belt and Holster Rigs they have practiced with "forever."  They (to shooters) have become very comfortable and totally familiar with the "Rig" they use.  Some rigs favor a specific shooting style but will provide NO advantage without lots and lots of (gasp) Practice.

The rig up provided a photo of (above) would be excellent for a Gunfighter, Double Dualist, Dualist and a couple of others.  Some shooters also set them up as your photo as "Crotch Shooters" in an attempt to gain the last 100th of a second.

My council is not to worry about the last 100th of a second or even who is using what to "win."  Your first consideration is FUN.  Think real serious about FUN.  Speed only comes with familiarity and gobs of (gasp) practice.  Lets get back to FUN.  Use a rig that is comfortable and you like the look of you in it.  Then have FUN with it.  Skip all that "TOP SHOOTER" crap.  Depending on your age and current experience level and your willingness to spend countless amounts of money and countless hours of (gasp) practice, you may never become one of the exclusive club at the TOP.  Concentrate instead ..... ON FUN!!!

Coffinmaker
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McCrower
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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2017, 02:37:41 am »

Well put Cofinmaker. FUN is important. But actually I think it is fun to try new things and test if its better/faster/more effective than other setups.
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NCOWS
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« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2017, 10:37:33 am »

I agree that trying things out is good, but as coffinmaker suggests, stick with a rig long enough to get in those Great Gobs Of Practise. Changing your rig every week might display your willingness to spend Great Gobs of Money, but it is the practise that is important. I was only in or near the winners circle when I lived in a small town and the range was 10 minutes away and I could get there frequently enough to make it pay. On the way home from work I could stop by and blow away 200 rounds of .22rf within 10 - 20 minutes. Including setup and range policing. I was buying .22 ammo by the 5,000 rd case.
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PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2017, 06:39:49 pm »

First thing that came to  mind is that it must be one hell of a problem bending down to pick up brass, set targets, etc. when wearing one of those rigs.
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2017, 07:29:06 pm »

I always use my hammer tie down on my cross when im not shooting, leave it off when I go to the line, put it back on when I'm done at the unloading table. But I have a long handled brass picker and the bottom of a canteen on a handle to collect brass. My left knee don't bend too good anymore. Old tank car chasing injury. Oops! My bad, you're referring to the crotch rig pictured. Guys who,wear those rigs are too busy shadow shooting the stages to do those bendy things.
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  Shooter's Meeting (Moderators: Marshal Halloway, Camille Eonich)  |  Topic: Quickest setup - left crossdraw or not? « previous next »
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