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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  Gunsmithing  |  Topic: 1851 Help 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: 1851 Help  (Read 1731 times)
Grenadier
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« on: July 03, 2017, 01:04:54 pm »


Early morning haunt to the local flea market turned up a brass frame 1851 Navy that has been slightly abused. It is marked EIG on the top barrel flat and XXI on the frame with typical Italian proofs. Other than that, it is devoid of maker marks etc. Take a look at this photo and tell me what could be causing the issue on the back of the cylinder. It seems to be dragging and getting battered from the hammer.



* unnamed.jpg (62.82 KB, 1204x903 - viewed 97 times.)
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2017, 01:40:20 pm »

Slightly abused.    SLIGHTLY ABUSED???  SLIGHTLY??   Sheesh

A.  Your flea Market find is Horribly out of time.  B.  Does it actually have any internal parts??  C.  Can you give it back to the Flea you bought it from??  I AM NOT being flip.  Completely serious.  I can only imagine what the inside of the chambers and bore look like.  I would almost think it was at some time given to a child as a toy.

Consider hanging it on a nail out inna garage.  It was made in 1965.  Approximately.  You may actually be able to find some parts that will fit it.  Based on the appearance of that cylinder, I wouldn't bother.  Seriously.  Honestly.

Coffinmaker
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Grenadier
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« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2017, 01:44:48 pm »

I appreciate the advice, Coffinmaker but its not that far gone for what I have in it. The bore looks just fine.
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Major 2
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« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2017, 06:07:58 am »

Brass Frame you say ?  

I agree with you "its not that far gone for what I have in it."

If'n the Flea market paid you to take it and the cylinder has not been tossed out yet.... then yeah, it's not gone far enough yet !

Seriously, and sorry  Sad  that is BEAT ....Ratchet is hammered , timing is way off , rust....

the Bright side, the Barrel, if the bore is good , pins are present and good , loading lever and screws at not buggered. then that is a plus and may have some parts value.

EIG was an importer in Miami or Hialeah as I recall , Roman numeral are indeed 1965.... both Kits & "cough" Finished guns were offered.
Judging by just the Cylinder, my guess the brass frame is stretched , especially if it was a 44  Undecided  (from over charging)  screws buggered ,  arbor loose , hammer face has got to be beat.

If I'm even close, "wall hanger" ....or sell the barrel to recoup some of your outlay .... course if it's a kit and still has machine marks or in the same outward appearance as the Cylinder.... my & Coffin Maker's original " WALL HANGER"  applies.

Now if all that seems sour grapes ... there is a silver lining , below are some yard sale finds , I've rented these as Props....
 one or two were given to me , prolly have no more $60 in the lot , they more than made their nut !



* Yard sale finds 2 .jpg (230.88 KB, 797x449 - viewed 65 times.)
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Grenadier
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2017, 09:24:55 am »

I d not believe it has ever been fired. Some hillbilly has simply mistreated it or allowed kids to play with it. I'll tinker with it and try to get the missing screws. For $25 I can recoup my money or make a profit by parting it out but it will probably end up being a learning project for me.
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Major 2
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« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2017, 10:04:45 am »

That's cool , $25 ?  might be fun project
I like to see an over all photo .... check eBay for replacement Cyl. 


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River City John
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« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2017, 10:55:09 am »

DO NOT even consider firing this, . . .this "thing"!

You've paid more than $25.00 for it the moment you begin to scavenge parts for it.
You may need to take off those rose-colored glasses when you go flea marketing. Wink


Wall hangar, at best.



RCJ
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2017, 11:13:11 am »

Grenadier,

Well, your innit cheap enough.  I've seen non-firing Faques priced a bunch higher than that.  Since you planning to piddle around having fun with it.  The first part of the project is to figure out exactly WHO made it.  A nice crisp photo of the stamps on the frame somewhere or on the barrel would help.  The makers all have identifying marks.

eBay may well yield some parts.  Lacking that, I suggest starting with a smattering of Pietta parts.  Basically, your going to have to replace everything that moves and most will require a bit of fiddling to make work.

Good Luck with IT

Coffinmaker
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Bunk Stagnerg
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« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2017, 05:36:18 pm »

Hello Grenadier
IF you get the gun working you will know the inside of a Colt type revolver better than you know the inside of your wallet.

Gunsmithing books on the Colt single action will be of great help. That mechanism did not greatly change from 1847 to 1873 and copies thereof.

Look at it as a learning project abet what might be a very expensive and frustrating one, but good luck.
Yr’ Obt’ Svt’
Bunk
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Abilene
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« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2017, 05:46:00 pm »

Grenadier, I think you are right, someone just played with the gun.  Probably fanning and lots of dry firing, and as the timing got off the hammer starts falling at various places on the cylinder.  Didn't matter to them, and they probably didn't even know that it was out of time.  The fact that you were able to get the nipples off of a cylinder looking that bad does tend to confirm unfired.  Does the action work at all?
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Grenadier
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2017, 03:32:11 am »

Abilene,

Th action is actually very smooth, it's just horribly out of time. I ordered some Pietta screws in hopes they will fit, if not I'll put them in my gun parts box and try to find others.

This will give me a good basis on learning how to tune a cap and ball. $25 is a good investment if I can learn from it.

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Jubal Starbuck
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« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2017, 05:43:19 am »

   I bought an EIG .36 caliber brass framed  Navy in 1968 from a Woolco store for $41.50.  Shot it for a couple of years until I traded for a new Remington after I experienced a chain fire with it.  Anyway I am thinking this Navy of yours might be a candidate for an antiqueing project, if that's where your interests take you.  I doubt if you could find a practice gun any cheaper and you can always stick it in a shadow box and hang it on the wall.
   Good luck and enjoy your project.
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Grenadier
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« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2017, 06:56:48 am »

Well, I ordered screws for a Pietta in hopes that they will fit. Now I am $10 more into it and even more determined to get it operational. The nice lady at VTI said that Pietta parts would be my best option if the internals need replacing but that Pietta nipples would likely not fit, so I am going to see if I can source a test nipple for Armi San Marco.

Jubal, I thought about making it an antiquing project if I get it working. Then again, I might make a CSA holster and belt for it with a little age applied.
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