Javascript DHTML Drop Down Menu Powered by dhtml-menu-builder.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 21, 2017, 10:17:55 am

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
* Home FlashChat Help Calendar Login Register
Currently there are 0 Users in the Cas City Chat Rooms!
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  1860 Henry (Moderators: Flint, Major 2)  |  Topic: Gonna switch my .45 Colt Henry to 44-40! 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Gonna switch my .45 Colt Henry to 44-40!  (Read 5211 times)
Tuolumne Lawman
CAS-L Ghost Rider
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1828


Grass Valley, CA in the Sierra Nevada Mountains


« on: June 01, 2017, 10:38:27 pm »


i did it.  The Ebay auction for an 1860 Henry barrel in 44-40 was just too tempting  Won the auction at $202.95!  Cheap, considering a stripped barrel from VTI is $545, and this is complete.

You may ask why I am doing this.  When I bought the 45 Colt one, I really didn't plan on shooting BP or subs - just a smokeless .45 Schofield load, or maybe Triple 7.  Well, the .45 Schofield absolutely sucks in the Henry as a BP load.  With Trail Boss, it is dead nuts on , and will shoot all day.  Halfway through the second stage with Triple Seven, and the carrier would not move.  OK, I thought I'll stick with smokeless.

Then Railroad Flat happened.  I shot a couple stages with my 44-40 Rossi 92, and an Uberti SAA in 44WCF. I really do prefer the 44-40 as a SASS loads.  Then I went to the nigh time BP shoot, and was bit by the BP bug bad.  So, the Henry will be a 44-40, with those nice thin case mouths that seal the chamber!
Logged

TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
CO. F, 12th Illinois Cavalry  SASS # 6127 Life * Spencer Shooting Society #43 * Motherlode Shootist Society #1 * River City Regulators
Slamfire
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 497


« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2017, 10:44:05 pm »

Hey,,Tuolumne,, i'm liking TB in my 44-40'sand my 40-60,,working up load's .








 Smok'um if ya' got'm,,,Hootmix.
Logged
Tuolumne Lawman
CAS-L Ghost Rider
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1828


Grass Valley, CA in the Sierra Nevada Mountains


« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2017, 11:19:18 pm »

Hey Slam, I love Trail Boss. I shoot the same load: 200 grain bullet and 7.0 grns TB in both .45 Schofield and 44-40.  The Schofield Trail Boss load is VERY accurate and consistent. 1.5 to 2" groups offhand at 10 yards from any pistol I shoot.
Logged

TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
CO. F, 12th Illinois Cavalry  SASS # 6127 Life * Spencer Shooting Society #43 * Motherlode Shootist Society #1 * River City Regulators
Isom
Active citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 32


« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2017, 11:16:12 am »

TL,
 I did a switch also, from 44-40 to 38-40. Had an Iron Frame in 44-40, picked up a Trapper in 44-40 also. Didn't need 2 in 44-40, so relined the Trapper in 38-40. It only holds 9 but I load one on the clock if necessary ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, slow but big cool factor. Shoots good . B/P all the way. Henry's are the coolest. Good luck with yours.
Isom
Logged
Coffinmaker
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4260


« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2017, 09:58:20 am »

Well Shucks.  Spent yesterday shooting a really fun match.  .44 Snubbies and a .45 Henry.  For technical reasons I had to switch one of my Henrys back to a standard Carrier Block.  Since I no longer own any 45 Colt cases ...... I loaded up 45 Schofield cases and shot the match with 45 Schofield cases, full case APP and 200Gr RNFP.  After every other stage I gave the Carrier Block a shot of PAM to keep the Blow-By at bay.  Worked a treat.

45 Colt rifles are a bit problematic with BP and Subs but can be kept running with a little care and attention.

Coffinmaker
Logged
Tuolumne Lawman
CAS-L Ghost Rider
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1828


Grass Valley, CA in the Sierra Nevada Mountains


« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2017, 07:46:35 pm »

Got barrel in hand.  Stripped sights and magazine stuff off current one, and dropping it and the new barrel off at the gunsmith.  Quote was $40 to $80.  $40 if he gets lucky like he did with the last Uberti Henry, and the matched perfect. $80 if there is any lathe work, etc.  He has done a few, and usually they are pretty close.
Logged

TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
CO. F, 12th Illinois Cavalry  SASS # 6127 Life * Spencer Shooting Society #43 * Motherlode Shootist Society #1 * River City Regulators
Tascosa Joe
NCOWS
Top Active Citizen
***
Online Online

Posts: 2125


« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2017, 10:14:52 pm »

Too bad you bought a new barrel instead of a decent bullet mold.
Logged

NRA Life, TSRA Life, NCOWS  Life,
Tuolumne Lawman
CAS-L Ghost Rider
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1828


Grass Valley, CA in the Sierra Nevada Mountains


« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2017, 09:00:45 am »

Too bad you bought a new barrel instead of a decent bullet mold.

LOL!  Well that would be one way to do it, I suppose. Grin
Logged

TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
CO. F, 12th Illinois Cavalry  SASS # 6127 Life * Spencer Shooting Society #43 * Motherlode Shootist Society #1 * River City Regulators
Tuolumne Lawman
CAS-L Ghost Rider
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1828


Grass Valley, CA in the Sierra Nevada Mountains


« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2017, 10:36:29 am »

Arghhh! Huh  Waiting, waiting, and still waiting for the barrel change to be changed.  I am too old to be patient!
Logged

TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
CO. F, 12th Illinois Cavalry  SASS # 6127 Life * Spencer Shooting Society #43 * Motherlode Shootist Society #1 * River City Regulators
Tuolumne Lawman
CAS-L Ghost Rider
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1828


Grass Valley, CA in the Sierra Nevada Mountains


« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2017, 06:48:23 pm »

Just spent $150 for a gunsmith to try to mount the barrel to my Uberti 1860 Henry that had a 45 colt barrel. The threaded shank of the barrel is almost 1/4" too short. The Gunsmith said milling off the front of the receiver that much would weaken it, and it would not line up on front. Also, because of barrel/magazine shroud design, he can not lathe turn it down. I realize I am out gunsmithing cost, but want a refund on the barrel. Too much money to spend on something that doesn t fit. I also had to pay him to re-instal my original Barrel, BTW.

We'll see how the seller responds.  I expect that is why the barrel is for sale in the first place!!!!!

Well, I guess I will just have to keep the Henry in .45 Colt/Schofield....Arghhhh Cry
Logged

TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
CO. F, 12th Illinois Cavalry  SASS # 6127 Life * Spencer Shooting Society #43 * Motherlode Shootist Society #1 * River City Regulators
Tuolumne Lawman
CAS-L Ghost Rider
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1828


Grass Valley, CA in the Sierra Nevada Mountains


« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2017, 08:15:37 pm »

When I load 7.0 grains Trail Boss with the 200 grain bullet, I really don't mind it shooting .45 Schofield like my Open Tops.  The problem comes when I want to shoot BP or subs.  The 45 fouls even with Triple 7 from blow back.  Maybe the APP I have ordered will work better.
Logged

TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
CO. F, 12th Illinois Cavalry  SASS # 6127 Life * Spencer Shooting Society #43 * Motherlode Shootist Society #1 * River City Regulators
Abilene
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2296



WWW
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2017, 08:18:45 pm »

Dang.  Maybe you can find someone with a .44 that wants a .45.
Logged

Will Ketchum
Chief of Detectives
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2713


Pete Ersland


« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2017, 11:36:49 am »

When I load 7.0 grains Trail Boss with the 200 grain bullet, I really don't mind it shooting .45 Schofield like my Open Tops.  The problem comes when I want to shoot BP or subs.  The 45 fouls even with Triple 7 from blow back.  Maybe the APP I have ordered will work better.
Have you tried annealing the case mouths?  I haven't done it but I've read it helps with the sealing of the chambers.

Will Ketchum
Logged

Will Ketchum's Rules of W&CAS: 1 Be Safe. 2 Have Fun. 3  Look Good Doin It!
F&AM, NRA Endowment Life, SASS Life 4222, NCOWS Life 133.  USMC for ever.
Madison, WI
Coffinmaker
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4260


« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2017, 12:49:36 pm »

OK .. OK .. OK .. Just to be helpful. 

Let us begin with my patented caveat!!  A DISCLAIMER as it twer.  I'M LAZY.  Really Really LAZY.  I can think of hundreds of ways to spend my time that does not include annealing cases.  SO:

The fastest and easiest way I know of to attenuate or in some cases completely eliminate 45 Colt Blow-By is to start with new 44-40 cases.  Run them thru your loading machine with 45 Colt dies.  Load em with BP or Subs.  Any bullet weight.  Shoot em in yer 45 rifle.  The thinner 44-40 case mouth will form to and seal the 45 chamber.  In most cases, no Blow-By.  You will lose some cases to splitting but not enough to really matter.

Another Caveat:  With 45 Schofield or C45S cases, you going to get Blow-By.  Most 45 Colt rifle chambers cut by Uberti are actually tapered.  The farther back from the front of the chamber the larger the chamber diameter.  Can't seal it with the thicker cases.  Waste of time, effort, powder and ball.

Coffinmaker 
Logged
Abilene
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2296



WWW
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2017, 01:22:31 pm »

...The fastest and easiest way I know of to attenuate or in some cases completely eliminate 45 Colt Blow-By is to start with new 44-40 cases.  Run them thru your loading machine with 45 Colt dies.  Load em with BP or Subs.  Any bullet weight.  Shoot em in yer 45 rifle.  The thinner 44-40 case mouth will form to and seal the 45 chamber.  In most cases, no Blow-By.  You will lose some cases to splitting but not enough to really matter...

Of course you gotta be careful keeping that brass segregated if you also load and shoot 44-40, especially in the same match.  Since I use only Winchester and Starline brass for my 44-40 Ubertis, I have previously separated out all my R-P, PMC, etc. "other" brass.  At one point I did think about using this brass to fireform to .45 for my .45 Colt '73.  But, since I have 32-20 and 44-40 '73's for BP, I decided to just stick with smokeless for the .45 rifle.
Logged

OD#3
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 157


« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2017, 03:31:53 pm »

It takes me as much time to anneal each case as it does to prime each case with a hand primer, and I can do 100 cases in 10 minutes. 
Logged
Coffinmaker
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4260


« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2017, 05:04:42 pm »

OD!!

Nanny Nanny Poo Poo  Grin

On my loading machine, in 10 minutes I get 100 complete, ready to shoot rounds.   Cheesy  Of course I fill 10 primer tubes at a time and keep em handy.  Hand priming is NOT handy Shocked  At least not to my way of thinking.  Wait .... Thinking hurts  Roll Eyes   I'd rather not have to do too much of that.  Pour cases and powder in one end, finished ammunition comes out the other end.  An awful lot like feeding grain to a Goose.  Roll Eyes Grin

Coffinmaker 
Logged
OD#3
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 157


« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2017, 12:30:47 am »

Stick you head in....

Coffinmaker, I really can't fault you for not wanting to mess with annealing.  It IS an extra step, and your suggestion for using .44-40 brass on your .45 Colt loads IS a pretty ingenious idea.  But when I shoot black powder in my .45 Colts, there's so much fussing with the brass as it is, that an additional 10 minutes per 100 pieces just isn't much of a burden, although I suppose one could argue that since I'm taking so much more time fussing with the brass, any time saved is worth it. 

But I do like my results from annealing.  I don't follow the benchrest shooter discipline, which places the priority on minimal annealing (just enough to prolong case life without over-softening it to the point of sacrificing neck tension), because I don't care if my brass is "over-annealed".  I figure that it can't end up softer than the original .45 Colt copper cases, and those worked just fine.  So I spin each case in the flame for probably a good 6 seconds before quenching, and the necks end up pretty soft indeed.  But this allows me to generously bell the case mouths during reloading and follow up with a pretty heavy crimp, which probably work-hardens the case mouth enough for the crimp to be effective while leaving the rest of the neck soft enough to fully obturate during firing.  And the subsequent annealing operation later softens the case mouths up again and keeps them from splitting.  And I have yet to find any evidence of blowby on any fired cases of mine that were so treated.

So the only disadvantage I've experienced with .45 Colt vs. .44-40 has been the additional step of annealing each case.  However, by sticking to the straight-walled .45 Colt, I get to use carbide dies and skip the case lubrication part (I do understand, however, that this wouldn't apply if I was using .44-40 brass for loading .45 Colt).

People suggest annealing as a way to lessen blowby in the .45 Colt . .44-40 is still pointed out as being superior, however, over annealed .45 Colt brass when it comes to keeping fouling out of the action.  But in my experience, annealing .45 Colt necks doesn't just lessen blowby, it eliminates it completely. 

Logged
Tuolumne Lawman
CAS-L Ghost Rider
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1828


Grass Valley, CA in the Sierra Nevada Mountains


« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2017, 07:42:55 pm »

Well, heck.... Lips Sealed  I have been trying to get my Henry back from the Gunsmith so I can at least use it in .45 and return the barrel for a refund.  10 days after him telling me he could not change the barrel, I still don't have my rifle back. I have been leaving messages, and the dealer I gave it to him through are leaving messages.  No response.  As of 10 days ago, it was completely disassembled with pieces at his home and at the shop.  My 30 days from purchase  to return the barrel for refund is almost up.  This is nuts. I have an $1,100 rifle, in pieces, that I can't get back in my possession to use.
Logged

TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
CO. F, 12th Illinois Cavalry  SASS # 6127 Life * Spencer Shooting Society #43 * Motherlode Shootist Society #1 * River City Regulators
OD#3
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 157


« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2017, 08:24:17 pm »

I'm not too keen on this gunsmith.  I think he could have lathe-turned the barrel.  The portion covered by the pivoting nosecap is completely round, so that could have been chucked into the lathe, and the chamber end could have been supported.  So I don't know why he didn't increase the barrel shank by 1/4 inches and re-thread and re-chamber, unless he just doesn't have the tools to do so.  As long as the bore is correctly sized for .44-40, a competent gunsmith should be able to swap barrels, no matter what.  The only thing he probably couldn't guarantee is that he wouldn't have to shorten the barrel a little to make it work. 
Logged
Major 2
"Still running against the wind"
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10295


Cracker Cow Cavalry


« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2017, 05:29:18 am »

I'm not too keen on this gunsmith.  I think he could have lathe-turned the barrel.  The portion covered by the pivoting nosecap is completely round, so that could have been chucked into the lathe, and the chamber end could have been supported.  So I don't know why he didn't increase the barrel shank by 1/4 inches and re-thread and re-chamber, unless he just doesn't have the tools to do so.  As long as the bore is correctly sized for .44-40, a competent gunsmith should be able to swap barrels, no matter what.  The only thing he probably couldn't guarantee is that he wouldn't have to shorten the barrel a little to make it work.  

I'm afraid I agree, or centered in 4 Jaw Chuck ( less he didn't have a large one ) but the burning question in my mind

 is why he'd even consider dis-assembly before  measuring   .... ( old rule "measure twice, cut once"  applies )

maybe, he is looking into getting it done via outsourcing the turning & thread....  Undecided
Logged
Baltimore Ed
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 495



« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2017, 07:42:52 am »

Dirty Harry said it best, ' a man's got to know his limitations.' But that doesn't make Tuolumne Lawman feel any better. Hope you get your rifle reassembled and a competent machinist/ smith who can actually do your job. Remember, it's only money, it's only your kids inheritance. They didn't work all those weekends or nightshifts. I've got a year long horror story about a shady smith I'll tell you sometime. Good luck.
Logged

"Give'em hell, Pike"
Tuolumne Lawman
CAS-L Ghost Rider
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1828


Grass Valley, CA in the Sierra Nevada Mountains


« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2017, 01:26:24 pm »

Update:

Finally got it back with original 45 Colt barrel re-installed.  Total: $65.  The good news is he went through and polished everything, lightened the springs a tad, and sharpened the rounded end of the extractor.  Actually pretty smooth now, so I suppose the money wasn't a waste. The guy I got the barrel from says he can change, but I am a little gun(smith) shy!
Logged

TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
CO. F, 12th Illinois Cavalry  SASS # 6127 Life * Spencer Shooting Society #43 * Motherlode Shootist Society #1 * River City Regulators
Major 2
"Still running against the wind"
Deputy Marshal
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10295


Cracker Cow Cavalry


« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2017, 07:36:42 pm »

Don't go poking it with a stick....sounds like he did you OK ...

Leave it be ....  life is to short to be Henryless  
Logged
Baltimore Ed
Top Active Citizen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 495



« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2017, 08:00:52 pm »

Glad you and your Henry have been reunited and it feels so good. You'll just have to go on a quest and find one in .44-40. Watch out for the Black Knight though, he's tough. Cue clopping sound.
Logged

"Give'em hell, Pike"
Pages: [1] 2 3 Go Up Print 
Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  1860 Henry (Moderators: Flint, Major 2)  |  Topic: Gonna switch my .45 Colt Henry to 44-40! « previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.069 seconds with 22 queries.