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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Powder Room - CAS reloading (Moderator: Professor Marvel)  |  Topic: Possible to resize .44-40 bullets down to .38-40? .429 to .401? 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Possible to resize .44-40 bullets down to .38-40? .429 to .401?  (Read 1394 times)
Baltimore Ed
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« on: May 17, 2017, 01:47:25 pm »


I've recently started loading .44-40 for my 73 musket with no problems. However I slipped up and bought a nice 1927 vintage Colt New Service in .38-40. I'm naturally cheap so other than buying .401 bullets has anyone tried to resize.429s down to.401? You can get the lee bullet sizer die kits in .401 and .410 which would probably work (9 thousand) but I'm not sure about the.429 to .410. 19-20 thousand is a lot. I would need another step I'm thinking. It's bad enough that I've got to buy new dies and brass but if I could just use the one bullet for both of them the extra work would not be an issue. I've looked on line and seen where shooters have successfully resized .41 mag bullets down to 10mm. Has anyone tried this? Thanks.
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rickk
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2017, 03:39:30 pm »

I don't think it would be an enjoyable effort.
Plus, unless you are using one heck of a press (Like a Corbin), you would probably eventually break something.


You might be able to do it if you bought a series of LEE sizing dies in 2 or 3 thousandths steps.

It would be a lot cheaper to just buy an appropriate mold.
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pony express
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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2017, 04:01:59 pm »

What Rickk said- plus, if you size them down .028" you'll likely not have any lube grooves left. I'd rather just get a Lee .38-40 mold for a little over $20 than buy all the sizing dies you'd need.
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2017, 05:00:57 pm »

Kinda what I was thinking, just too big of a difference even with steps. I have resized my cast 292 gr .458 bullets down to.454 to use in a .45 LC Colt Anaconda. The Colt would not shoot.452 but was very accurate with .454s. Talk about a thumper. I was shooting bowling pin matches and they were deadly on pins. I'll just have to break down and fire up the old credit card.
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Ranch 13
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2017, 08:37:33 am »

Possible yes, practical no.
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2017, 10:36:28 am »

If you weigh enough.  If your cheater bar on the Luber/Sizer is long enough.  Ef you really really want wadcutters the hard way ........

SURE.  Butt.......

I really don't think it's a good idea.  Plus turning the handle on your Luber/Sizer into a pretzel may not actually be your intent.

I suggest an alternative approach.  Start with 38-40 bullets  Grin

Coffinmaker
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Abilene
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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2017, 01:42:14 pm »

Now if you are really cheap you can use neck down your 44-40 brass to 38-40.  Except for the headstamp, both cases start out the same at the manufacturer.  Of course then you would have to keep that brass segregated from your regular 44-40 brass.
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 02:23:56 pm »

Good idea Abilene. But the 64 thousand question is why even create the .38 (which isn't.38), -40 in the first place when you already have the .44-40?
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Ranch 13
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2017, 02:33:03 pm »

Good idea Abilene. But the 64 thousand question is why even create the .38 (which isn't.38), -40 in the first place when you already have the .44-40?
Because they thought it to be a medium power cartridge. Plus 40 caliber was pretty popular during the time period.
 It is a better handgun cartridge than a rifle cartridge, but still served a purpose and filled a niche.
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2017, 08:06:59 pm »

Ed .....

Nah.  None of the above.  Marketing.  They (Winchester) wanted something "new" and "Exciting" to stir the market place and sell some more rifles.  Since it (38-40) recoiled a bit lighter than the 44-40, Colt also jumped on it and started chambering the SAA for the round.

Coffinmaker
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dusty texian
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Dusty Texian


« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2017, 08:20:29 pm »

What Ranch 13 listed is what Winchester used to promote the 38/40 wcf to the " T "  The real reason that the 38/40 wcf was the profits that were made from ammunition sales .  And it's a great cartridge to boot! ,, DT
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Ranch 13
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2017, 09:04:23 pm »

 I second that great cartridge thing Dusty T. I do like it best in my 5 1/2 model p, but it's a fun little shooter in the Marlin 89
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2017, 07:38:30 pm »

Ok guys, I can't squoosh.430 bullets down to.401. Nuf said. My starline brass, .401 180 gr Crown bullets and Colt New Service have arrived and my dies are supposed to be here tomorrow. As I said, I've recently started reloading.44-40 for my musket with no issues so my question is : are there any tricks I need to know for .38-40? I've heard that it's a tricky case to load.


* image.jpeg (84.15 KB, 751x367 - viewed 33 times.)
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w44wcf
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« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2017, 04:02:54 pm »

If the 44-40 bullets are lubed and fairly soft, using a Lee push through die .41 and your chamber will accept .410" bullets , it could be done  with some degree of success. You would likely wipe out most of crimp groove though.


I say that because at one time, I sized some 200 gr 45 colt bullets down to .43 with some success using a .43 Lee push through die. The bullets were soft   20/1.

Not ideal but if there's a will, there's a way......  Grin
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greyhawk
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« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2017, 05:35:08 am »

What Rickk said- plus, if you size them down .028" you'll likely not have any lube grooves left. I'd rather just get a Lee .38-40 mold for a little over $20 than buy all the sizing dies you'd need.

Double plus - buy a mold!
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Scattered Thumbs
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« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2017, 08:16:41 am »

Ed .....

Nah.  None of the above.  Marketing.  They (Winchester) wanted something "new" and "Exciting" to stir the market place and sell some more rifles. Since it (38-40) recoiled a bit lighter than the 44-40, Colt also jumped on it and started chambering the SAA for the round.

Coffinmaker

Ya think?

Recoil isn't milder. Au contraire mon frere(pardon the french  Grin), the powder amount remaining the same (40 gr ), and with a smaller diameter bullet you would have... more felt recoil.

You would also have more velocity (lighter bullet, but not much lighter  Roll Eyes), which I think it was the real marketing reason.

Colt just went along.  Grin But they also broke the 1000 fps barrier in a 7,5 barrel.
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2017, 09:17:18 am »

I gave up on the swaging idea. Lee has done away with their original swaging die kits and now use actual lee dies with an adapter, too pricey of an experiment for me. My RCBS cowboy dies arrived. Now understand that I'm lazy and like that a single powder measure setting works for multiple loads for multiple guns. CAS is not an accuracy game so minute of sass target is ok for me. I use 5.2 gr of Clay dot for my .45 lc (200 gr pistol) and (250 gr rifle) and in my .44-40 (210 gr musket). Naturally I tried it in the .38-40 (180 gr New Service) but found it snappy, not accurate and hard on my arthritic knuckles. So I swapped my Dillon measures and tried my .45 acp/ autorim load of 4.5 gr of red dot. Good load, doesn't hurt, accurate too. As to my secondary question, I agree that it was a Winchester marketing ploy. Have you ever noticed that there are so many different sized boxes of kellogs corn flakes on the cereal aisle? It's all about taking up space on the shelves.
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Scattered Thumbs
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« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2017, 09:33:16 am »

I gave up on the swaging idea. Lee has done away with their original swaging die kits and now use actual lee dies with an adapter, too pricey of an experiment for me. My RCBS cowboy dies arrived. Now understand that I'm lazy and like that a single powder measure setting works for multiple loads for multiple guns. CAS is not an accuracy game so minute of sass target is ok for me. I use 5.2 gr of Clay dot for my .45 lc (200 gr pistol) and (250 gr rifle) and in my .44-40 (210 gr musket). Naturally I tried it in the .38-40 (180 gr New Service) but found it snappy, not accurate and hard on my arthritic knuckles. So I swapped my Dillon measures and tried my .45 acp/ autorim load of 4.5 gr of red dot. Good load, doesn't hurt, accurate too. As to my secondary question, I agree that it was a Winchester marketing ploy. Have you ever noticed that there are so many different sized boxes of kellogs corn flakes on the cereal aisle? It's all about taking up space on the shelves.

You are using the wrong powders.  Roll Eyes

Those rounds weren' t designed for that smokeyless stuff. Grin

But you'll get more recoil from the .38WCF regardless.  Roll Eyes
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2017, 09:44:10 am »

I tried black and pyrodex in my rugers and double bbl many years ago but too much trouble. I really enjoy watching you Darksiders with your guns blazing fire and smoke but it's not for me.
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2017, 10:04:54 am »

Ed,
Noticed your foray into that "better" place (THE DARK SIDE) but wanted to let you know .... Pyrodex was invented to create RUST.  It was only later that found it would burn.   Shocked    Grin

Coffinmaker

PSS:  Margarine was originally a failed attempt to develop an ultra low temperature lubricant.  Never intended to be consumed by humans.
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Scattered Thumbs
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« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2017, 10:46:51 am »



PSS:  Margarine was originally a failed attempt to develop an ultra low temperature lubricant.  Never intended to be consumed by humans.

Now, don't spread fake news. Margarine was conceived(conjured?  Roll Eyes) to supply a cheaper source of butter to the french army back in 1869.
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Coffinmaker
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« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2017, 02:34:11 pm »

HI HA HA HA HA HA HA HA  Grin
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2017, 02:49:27 pm »

Hey cut out the joviality there at my expenses. I got feelins, jest not all my ideas are all that well thought out. That's what I got you guys for. Marlin proportionally shrunk the model 42 12 ga down to the model 30 20 ga. I wonder how a .410 would have looked? Or were you commenting on the margarine post? I like butter personally.
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Powder Room - CAS reloading (Moderator: Professor Marvel)  |  Topic: Possible to resize .44-40 bullets down to .38-40? .429 to .401? « previous next »
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