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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  CAS TOPICS  |  The Powder Room - CAS reloading (Moderator: Professor Marvel)  |  Topic: Starting my 44-40 reloading adventure but I have a question. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Starting my 44-40 reloading adventure but I have a question.  (Read 5403 times)
PJ Hardtack
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« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2017, 02:47:13 pm »

I've got a pair of Dillons as well; one older model without removable tool head and a 550B that does. The older model is dedicated to .38 Spl. but I have extra tool heads for 9mm, .45 ACP, .44 Russian, .44 Spl. .45 Colt and 44-40 c/w powders measusres .

I'm thinking that I  need at least one more Dillon .....

I may try your squirt lube method using a plastic bag.


Well Heck PJ.

I admit I'm lazy.  I don't like extra steps.  At'z why a run two progressive presses.  One for small primers and one for biggies.  Just move my stool.  I digress.  Only a little.  Extra steps.  Nada.  None.  Zero.  Piffit.  I dump all my cases inna box wid a lid (shoe box), squirt the lube lightly, close the lid and shake ..... dump inna collimator (case feeder) and go.  After the turret fills, every cycle of the handle pops out a loaded round.  Once properly adjusted, even 44-40.

Coffinmaker
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M113A3
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« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2017, 09:22:42 pm »

Mehavey - I am starting from the beginning so 6.9gr Unique and 15.0gr IMR-4227 which are the two I currently have.

As for hardness I found on the website it is 15 BHN is the stat provided. This is something I have not considered... is this to hard for current production 1873 and a Schofield?

Since I will not be casting my own I am open to suggestions for who to buy bullets from.

Thanks!
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mehavey
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« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2017, 10:53:08 pm »

#2 will likely serve ... but I recommend you work your way up to the 8gr/Unique standard "quickly" before making follow-on decisions.  The faster/higher pressure rise will help ensure best bump-up to fill the bore.

... ditto for the Schofield.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Try http://cowboybullets.com/44-Caliber_c_10.html for softer bullets downstream and see how they work for you (8-9 Brinnel). 
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M113A3
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« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2017, 12:19:46 am »

Thanks - for the link. As for the bump up I hope there will not be too much leading in my future due to the pressure being too low for the hardness of the bullets I have.

I will order a sample to test from Desperado.

Thanks Again.
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2017, 08:11:38 am »

We think alike Coffinmaker, my bench has 3 progressive presses, a Dillon for .45 acp/ar, a modified Lyman turret for .45 LC and another Lyman for .38/.357 mag and anything else. I also load .44-40 on the .45 LC press and use the same powder set up, 5.2 grs of clays or clay dot. I just swap dies. I use a Dillon powder measure on my turret so all I do is raise the ram and dump the powder. Easy.

I admit I'm lazy.  I don't like extra steps.  At'z why a run two progressive presses.  One for small primers and one for biggies.  Just move my stool.  I digress.  Only a little.  Extra steps.  Nada.  None.  Zero.  Piffit.  I dump all my cases inna box wid a lid (shoe box), squirt the lube lightly, close the lid and shake ..... dump inna collimator (case feeder) and go.  After the turret fills, every cycle of the handle pops out a loaded round.  Once properly adjusted, even 44-40.

Coffinmaker
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M113A3
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« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2017, 05:11:15 pm »

My order came in for the bullets and set up my first load for 6.9 gn Unique. Being new to all this the amount that weighs in at 6.9 gn seems rather small when poured into the case. It is only the bottom 1/3rd or maybe less using the MK1 eyeball.

I guess my concern is under loading... maybe bit over cautious but just being safe. I noticed on the Alliant site they suggest what Lyman considers the max load of 8.6gn for CAS 44-40

Thoughts?
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mehavey
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« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2017, 05:48:54 pm »

See https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6065580&postcount=7

Suggest a classic 8.0gr/Unique
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jthbjr
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« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2017, 07:56:33 pm »

I load a fair amount of 44-40. I load with a single stage press and Lee dies. I use Starline brass, Standard CCI primers and Laser-cast 44-40 200g bullets sized .427. My standard load is 8 grains of Unique. The guns I load for all like this load. It is a good load full power load for pistols and a good load in an original 1892 rifle.
I have found that with the thin case necks and Lee dies I don't have to lube the cases to deprime and resize. I also seat the bullet and crimp all in one motion. I have a Lee factory crimp die but don't use it any more.
I prime with an RCBS hand primer. (I am lazy too. I have one set up for large primers and one for small primers.)
I use a Little Dandy powder measure for all smokeless powder pistol reloading. You are right there is some extra space in the case. Before I seat the bullets I do a visual inspection of the powder level with a flashlight.
I generally get a formula that I like for a particular cartridge and stick with it.
What I do that is different from the advice I was given when I started on the 44-40 is: I don't use case lube with Starline cases and Lee dies and I can seat and crimp in one motion. Others may have different results.
John in beautiful Art, Texas
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Coal Creek Griff
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« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2017, 11:09:17 pm »

M113A3:

I don't recall the bullet weight that you're using, but for most standard 44-40 weights (say, 200-220 grains), I don't think that a charge of 6.9 grains of Unique is unreasonable.  Yes, the powder kind of gets lost in the case, but that is not unusual for smokeless loads in blackpowder cases.  You might find it to be a bit position-sensitive (higher velocity when the powder is settled back in the case and lower velocity when the powder is settled forward), but it likely won't make enough difference to really matter.

Of course whenever you're shooting, especially when working up a load, be aware of the sound and recoil of the gun.  If either seems light, pause and check that the bullet has left the barrel.  That is a common safety practice--you certainly don't want to fire a round when there's a bullet stuck in the barrel.

I say, "Good job in asking questions and thinking this all through carefully."  Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

CC Griff
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M113A3
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« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2017, 12:48:53 am »

Thanks CC Griff - I am sticking with a slow work up process. Thanks for the info on the positioning of the powder I was doing a bit of research and found that information informative.

BTW the safety tip is much appreciated.

Cheers
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w44wcf
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« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2017, 06:46:31 pm »

Welcome to the world of 44-40 reloading!

a couple of things...
Does a sized case fit the chamber OK.
If so, the bullet will expand the case neck once the  case mouth has been belled  in your pic..

Magtech brass has thicker case neck walls than Starline... actually up to .002 on a side!

So it  could be that the cartridge neck od might be a tad large for your chamber in Magtech brass

In my 44-40, .428"' is the maximum bullet diameter in Magtech brass and  Starline will accept .431"
Cartridge neck od for both is .446"  

Interestingly, Magtech factory ammo contains .426" diameter bullets. At least the ones I took apart did.

w44wcf


W44wcf
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« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2017, 12:41:15 pm »

I use 7.0 grains TRAIL BOSS, 7.0 grains UNIQUE, or 9.0 grains of Unique (Taffin's .44-40 factory duplication load) if I want more pizzaz.  My main load in the Trail Boss 7.0 grains.  No chance of a double load to blow up my 1860 Henry, plenty of pizzaz for CAS, ands even a fair amount of smoke, compared to Unique.  My LEE auto disk throws 7.0 + or - .05 every time.
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TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
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M113A3
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« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2017, 08:08:01 pm »

Sorry for the late reply guys I have been super busy with life... So I finally completed my first round but have and issue which I want to run past you all.

Recap:
Magtech brass
200gr RNFP .428 (Desperado Bullet)
6.9 grains Unique

Here is the finished product - How does the crimp look? I seated the bullet so you can just barely see the top edge of the crimp groove. It measures 1.579




Here is the Bullet for reference



Now for the problem the round will fit the chamber of my Schofield but not the EGW chamber checker. I actually matched up a Magtech factory round to my reloaded round in the Schofield chamber you cant tell the difference between them.

BTW at w44wcf - the resized case fit my wilson case gauge but I don't recall if I tried it in my chamber... something to remember next time.

It is my understanding the EGW chamber checker is SAAMI spec so maybe my Uberti is a bit off..?

Not sure what I need to do to fix this issue.


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Coal Creek Griff
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« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2017, 08:35:44 pm »

A bit of an educated guess here, but I imagine that the chamber checker is SAAMI minimum--if the cartridge fits, it will fit any SAAMI-spec chamber. If it freely chambers in your gun, I'd say that you're good to go (shooting).

CC Griff
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« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2017, 10:04:00 pm »

I seem to remember hearing that the EGW chamber checker is set for tapered 44-40s like Black Hills factory.  If it chambers in your weapons, it is good to go.. Have fun!
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TUOLUMNE LAWMAN
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2017, 08:25:12 am »

Been making straight wall pistol ammo for many years but I've only been reloading .44-40 (for my 73 musket) for a short time and just started building .38-40 for my new service. It looks to me that you're way over crimping especially for a revolver. My understanding of either old WCF loadings is that as long as the loads fit into the chamber of your gun you're good to go. But do the least amount of crimping and belling that you can get away with to preserve the brass. Don't worry about using a checker for WCF due to the various shoulder locations encountered between modern and antique firearms from various manufacturers.
Here's a pix of my .44-40 and .38-40 loads. Unless you're loading hot hunting loads or jacketed bullets you don't need a super crimp, the only caveat is if you're loading for a tubular mag rifle where recoil and a strong mag spring might shove your bullets back into the case. Hope this helps. Check my thread on .38-40 shoulder location, good responses from seasoned WCF reloaders there.


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M113A3
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« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2017, 07:21:11 pm »

Thanks ED.

I backed off the crimp here is the example. Thoughts.



Cheers
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2017, 09:41:00 pm »

Looks good to me. Nice load. Now, what's your group look like?
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M113A3
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« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2017, 10:10:22 pm »

I hope to be able to test this load out this weekend - starting at the min level and working up. I will post results.

Thanks
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2017, 10:34:12 pm »

Must have missed it but what are you reloading these for?
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M113A3
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« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2017, 10:44:45 pm »

Hi Ed,

A schofield and an 1873 lever gun.

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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2017, 05:40:40 pm »

I looked real hard at a used Schofield revolver at the NE Regional years ago but didn't think that I could run the gun as I shoot duelist. I've always liked top breaks though, got a bunch of Webleys. I decided to stick with my Vaqueros then.
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Silver_Rings
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« Reply #47 on: June 16, 2017, 08:55:29 pm »

I shot Scholfields, a pair, gunfighter for 26 years.  They are harder to shoot one handed.  When I wore them out, I tried a Colt 1871 and boy are they a dream to shoot one handed.

Silver Rings
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M113A3
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« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2017, 07:11:49 pm »

So here my next issue. Although I used the exact process & die settings two of the initial test rounds will not chamber. Not sure why or what to do?

Thanks
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Baltimore Ed
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« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2017, 07:17:10 pm »

Won't chamber in what? You've got 7 chambers, one in the 73 and 6 in the Schofield.
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