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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The American Plainsmen Society (Moderators: Caleb Hobbs, Tsalagidave)  |  Topic: Original Plains Indians Stuff in the Collection 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Original Plains Indians Stuff in the Collection  (Read 3971 times)
Tsalagidave
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Dave Rodgers


« on: May 04, 2017, 02:49:49 am »


I was photographing some stuff and took some pics of original items from the 1860-1890s era that my Dad's side of the family collected living next to their neighbors at the Pine Ridge Reservation.  My Dad's family lived there from the 1860s to WW2. 

The arrows are originals from the 1870-80s.  Dust mites ate the feathers after a century hanging on the wall.  Soapstone pipe, beaded moccasins,  war club wrapped in dyed horse hair, drum and beater.

I figured that this ties into so much that we do, It would made for a good discussion.

-Dave


* War Club.jpg (257.27 KB, 1200x800 - viewed 114 times.)

* Sioux Drum.jpg (267.72 KB, 1200x800 - viewed 103 times.)
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2017, 11:08:08 am »

I have recently become fascinated with Native American artifacts, and it's real fun to get a chance to look at these. I'm curious if you'd be willing to take a close up on the arrow of the tip and where the feathers were. I'd like to see how they were attached.

Take good care of those moccasins, as they're worth at least several hundred dollars, particularly since you can provide some provenance.

Indian artifacts are currently very undervalued. You can find authentic period pieces on eBay for a pittance if you search right. There's a law on the books that forbids calling something "Native American" if you can't prove its provenance, but you can often tell by the construction the items which are older or newer. I saw what looked like an authentic Lakes beaded pouch sell the other day for $36, and it actually had provenance. Someday there will be more appreciation of Native American culture, and these items will become sought after and valuable.
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2017, 01:42:32 pm »

My Dear DAve -

I too would appreciate close-ups of your items, particularly the arrows: the Points, the Nocks, the wrappings, and wear the
feathers were wrapped. I was taught to make arrows  by elderly Grandfathers from Pine Ridge/Rosebud  ( northern plains style)
and by a Taos Pueblo Grandfather ( Southern Pueblo style).

also PM sent   Grin

my grateful thanks
prf marvel
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Tsalagidave
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Dave Rodgers


« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2017, 03:17:25 am »

I added a ruler for measurements to those interested.  The arrowhead is cut sheet metal (either a barrel or crate band gauge).


* Arrowhead.jpg (374 KB, 800x1200 - viewed 83 times.)
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Tsalagidave
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Dave Rodgers


« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2017, 03:19:20 am »

The Fletching spaces at about 6 inches.  A multitude of feathers may have been used but a century of dust mite damage has obliterated them.  They are bound in place by horse hair.


* Fletching.jpg (326.43 KB, 1200x800 - viewed 83 times.)
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Tsalagidave
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Dave Rodgers


« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2017, 03:20:41 am »

The Noc may have been heat hardened.  Feels like it.

-Dave


* Nock.jpg (125.03 KB, 1200x800 - viewed 78 times.)
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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2017, 10:32:20 am »

Great stuff!  Thanks for sharing these items!
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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2017, 11:47:34 am »

The sad thing about much of the modern-made authentic Native American artifacts is that a lot of the makers don't really have a grasp of their own heritage!  Sad  As each generation gets further removed from the 19th Century, the worse the situation gets. A lot of this is our fault. As Charlie Russell once said, "The Indian had it all (his environment), and we took it away from them for $30 a month and found!"   Cry
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« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2017, 05:38:21 pm »

I added a ruler for measurements to those interested.  The arrowhead is cut sheet metal (either a barrel or crate band gauge).

I've been told that stamped frying pans were used, too.
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« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2017, 08:24:38 pm »

I'll try to add to this fine subject. This arrow was found in an attic in eastern Nebraska and shows some similarities to yours. A feature that I find interesting is the three grooves cut into the shaft from the feathers to the point.
 
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Dave Rodgers


« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2017, 01:59:31 am »

Similar cut sheet metal point with horsehair bindings but mine don't that the 3-grooves.

-Dave
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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2017, 05:43:25 pm »

I will spend some time in the books this weekend.  I swear I have read about those grooves.   I guess it is good that I remember that I have seen it somewhere.  Just wish I could remember what it was!
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« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2017, 08:15:53 am »

IIRC...the grooves are used to help straighten the shaft when heating, and supposed to help keep the shaft straight (not sure how, though!), plus they allow a path for blood to escape if it isn't a pass through shot.
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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2017, 12:17:13 pm »

Very interesting pictures, Dave!

I understand that the rings carved around the pipestem are intended to represent a trachea.

The bald eagle painting on the drum has a modern look to it, both in its design and in the strength of its colors.  To me, it seems odd that the native painter selected a bald eagle instead of a golden eagle as the subject, considering the importance of golden eagle feathers among the Oglala people.

These are nice artifacts, and it's great that your family has kept and treasured them all of these years.

Crooked River Bob
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« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2017, 05:08:59 pm »

  Very interesting stuff. I'm fascinated by indian artifacts and have been able to scrounge up a few myself while out piddling and deer hunting.

 Taylor Co., TX

 

 Brewster Co. TX

 

 

 

 Motley Co. TX

 

 In the vicinity of Ft. Griffin, TX (found by a buddy)

 

 Not native indian, but interesting- A hide scraper

 

 
 CHT
 

 
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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2017, 07:15:01 pm »

So much fun. Keep 'em coming!
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Dave Rodgers


« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2017, 11:06:43 pm »

Very interesting pictures, Dave!

I understand that the rings carved around the pipestem are intended to represent a trachea.

The bald eagle painting on the drum has a modern look to it, both in its design and in the strength of its colors.  To me, it seems odd that the native painter selected a bald eagle instead of a golden eagle as the subject, considering the importance of golden eagle feathers among the Oglala people.

These are nice artifacts, and it's great that your family has kept and treasured them all of these years.

Crooked River Bob
The paint appears to be american manufacture but the painting is original ca. mid 1880s off the reservation by my great great grandfather. Artwork is consistent with other (ca. late 1800s) works I've seen in the Chadron area.
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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2017, 02:53:36 pm »

Thanks for sharing your family treasures, Dave.
Regarding the grooves, Jim Hamm has a good discussion of it in "Bow and Arrows of the Native Americans." Having made hundreds of arrows the traditional way, Hamm found that if he grooved the shaft prior to heating hardening, it greatly increased the wood surface available to be hardened, making for much straighter arrows. The grooving is easily and quickly accomplished with a grooving tool -- a four-inch section of limb or dowel maybe an inch in diameter with a shallow, vee-shaped groove in the center and perpendicular to the axis of the dowel. At the apex of the groove a nail or a piece of flint is set. With the arrow shaft lying on a flat surface, you just align the shallow groove with the arrow and pull it down the shaft. I don't know if this makes sense, but it is a very simple process.
As to the hide scraper, I have seen these made as well from a short section of ruined musket or fusil barrel with one end hammered flat and then folded over at 90 degrees to form the scraping surface.
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The American Plainsmen Society (Moderators: Caleb Hobbs, Tsalagidave)  |  Topic: Original Plains Indians Stuff in the Collection « previous next »
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