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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1886 (Moderator: Isom)  |  Topic: Help needed for 45-90 bp load 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
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Author Topic: Help needed for 45-90 bp load  (Read 2783 times)
clyde
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« on: May 01, 2017, 04:20:19 am »


Hello Gentlemen (and Ladies)

I haven't found yet an accurate black powder load for my original 1886 rifle in 45-90 wcf.

I tried 75 grains of Swiss Powder n° 3 (2FG) and a flat nose, pure lead 350 grains bullet lubricated with olive oil and beewax.

It seems there is not enough lube as the 2 first shots are close to another and then the next ones are scattered all over the target.

The bore is excellent and shiny. The grooves are quite shallow but they look as new and the rifle was made  in 1890 so It was made for black powder .

I shoot BP in more than 20 other guns so I have some experience but It is my first 45-90 rifle.

The rifle shoots very well with smokeless loads but that doesn't give me the same level of pleasure.

Can you please give some advice on what I should try to have less fouling and enjoy this rifle with BP ?

Thank you

Clyde (French shooter and member of the SSS forum)
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Clyde - Spencer Shooter SSS 57
Sir Charles deMouton-Black
THE ANCIENT SUBSTANCE ENDURES - ALL LESSER PROPELLANTS SHALL FIZZLE
NCOWS
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2017, 11:30:50 am »

What bullet are you using? Some carry more lube than others. Perhaps give a 405 gr. bullet a try?

Other things to try;
1. A wad over the powder. try a card punched from  a cereal box, or pulp egg contained either soaked in lube or not.
2. A .45 wonderwad. (I wonder why they cost so much?)
3. A grease cookie in lieu of, or with the wad.

One change at a time until you've found it.
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clyde
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2017, 03:45:32 pm »

Hello Sir Charles
thank you for the reply.
i am using a RCBS FP bullet design.
i read somewhere that the 1:32 twist of 45-90 1886 winchester bore was not well suited to 405 grains bullet, but after all nothing replaces practical experience. So I will follow your advice and'give a try.
I will also try the different types of wads that you have listed.

Thank you

Cheers

Clyde
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Clyde - Spencer Shooter SSS 57
larryo1
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2017, 05:13:33 pm »

Clyde:
Gotta stick my nose in here.  My '86 in 45-90 also has that slow twist and it was designed around a 300 grain bullet.  I have dabbled with BP and also duplex loadings that I do not recommend.  Back in 1968, I settled on smokeless and have never deviated.  I use 58 grains of 3031. Even tho it don't have the stink it is a very accurate load for my rifle.  I also have an '86 om 40-82 that does well with BP--Swiss 1˝ and I think it is about 655 grains.  I use a paper-patch bullet for this rifle--a 260 grain bullet.  In my experience, if you go much over this grain weight, the bullet will tumble and keyhole--at least in my rifle that is the case.  The 300 grain works great.  I use either lead at 16:1 alloy or Hornady 300 grain jacketed hollow point.  I don't know if this will help you but this is what I do.
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Ranch 13
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2017, 06:25:39 pm »

 Sounds like you're fouling out.
May want to try some 1 1/2 f, and load a lubed felt wad under the bullet.
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clyde
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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2017, 12:57:13 am »

Larryo1 :
Thank you. If I don't find an accurate BP load I will stick to smokeless as you do. but the rifle was designed BP originally and I like it more, that is why I am still trying to find a BP load. Interestingly, when I bought the rifle I hesitated because the seller offered also a 1886 rifle in 40-82...

Ranch 13 :
Thank you. Will try this...

Cheers

Clyde
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Clyde - Spencer Shooter SSS 57
larryo1
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2017, 07:49:48 am »

Clyde:
By the way that 655 grains should have been 65.5 grains.  The bullet lube that I use is and has been all these years is a 50/50 mix of beeswax and water-pump grease.  I use it in all my firearms that need it.  I can't remember where I got that formula but it works.  the only problem now is finding water-pump grease as that is sort of getting to be about as scarce as hen's teeth.  Glad I still have a bit of it--most of what I still have was my dad's.  Anyway just thought that I would pass this on for you.
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Slamfire
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2017, 08:29:14 am »

Larryo1,,,, try stool seal,,,yea' the one you put under a commode.I even use it on good leather ,,helps to water proof.






Hootmix.
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larryo1
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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2017, 11:18:08 am »

Slamfire:
Don't have any problems with the beeswax.  Use some of that stuff myself.  It is the water-pump grease that will have me digging and scratching in the future but for the present I got lots to keep me in business.  Thanks anyway for the tip.
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frimath
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2017, 02:10:52 pm »

FWIW I 'm using a 520 grain Postel bullet with 68 grains of FFG in my Sharps 45-90. I haven't tried anything that heavy in my '86. But I have used a 405 with 62 grains of FFG. I've also used a load of 5 grains of 4759 (IMR) "duplex" load thrown first and then with a FFG load but I need to go back and check what the FFG part of the load was. The Duplex does a nice job of consistency and keeping the fouling down, just sayin. If you can get past the "purist" part of the load I use it for almost all if not all of my cartridge loadings these days.  These are all compressed loads down with a compression die and then the lead bullet just sits on top so I can crimp it for feeding in the tube. Lobo
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Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L  |  Special Interests - Groups & Societies  |  The Winchester Model 1886 (Moderator: Isom)  |  Topic: Help needed for 45-90 bp load « previous next »
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